The new look of Manchester United and Arsenal

[Dave]

Two teams that really manage to stay consistent are Arsenal and Manchester United. Consistent in all of their endeavours, for that matter. They are two teams who enjoy a lot of success and who have their own ways of playing football. Last season saw Arsenal give The Red Devils a run for their money for a large part of the season, only to fall away at the end of the season... Perhaps the most consistent thing about Arsenal.

Nevertheless, a lot has to be said about their ambitions in the transfer market this summer. With both Manchester United and Arsenal looking to strengthen their respective teams, names have been thrown around pretty casually.

During the last Premier League season, I had a thought to myself that both teams needed to modify their teams and bring themselves into line with the rest of the world. For example, did anyone actually think that Manchester United would beat Barcelona in the Champions League Final? I certainly didn't. In my opinion, Arsenal and Manchester United are very much in need of looking to bring in some quality players that can take them to the next level.

However, the consistency that I mentioned earlier may have to take a beating for both teams to accomplish that goal. Manchester United don't spend money often and when they do, they generally bring in superstar players. They rely on home-grown players a lot and if you look at their team right now, you can see a huge level of consistency from the back to the front. The spine of their team rarely changes but ageing and other concerns mean that, for the first time in a long while, Manchester United have to look to rebuild a team.

Arsenal, on the other hand, tend to like young players that don't have the experience when it comes to the end of the season. For a while now, they have been crying out for players who have that experience when it matters. Their aspirations in the transfer market tell me that they are looking to bring in that quality and are going away from Wenger's chosen market strategy of “If they are over 30, then forget it”. However, the consistency in Arsenal's team and the way they play football may be compromised with the introduction of certain players.

Manchester United have already signed Phil Jones, Ashley Young and David De Gea. When you look at those names, you can see that the spine of the Manchester United team is going to look very different at the beginning of next season. Phil Jones, with how much they paid for him, ought to start most of the games and the same goes for David De Gea, who will be looking to ensure he is the number 1 with Edwin Van Der Sar retiring.

Arsenal, on the other hand, haven't really done much of substance just yet. However, with Ivan Gazidas explicitly saying that he expects Arsenal to have a busy transfer period, you have to expect that a lot of business will be doen at the Emirates before the start of the new season. What is going to be key though, is whether they sell Nasri and Fabregas to Barcelona. Barca have made no secret of their valuation of the players and I think that Arsenal are going to have to face the prospect of selling two of their best players. But who could they bring in to replace these two talismanic players? Gervinho is a player that I hear about constantly. Chris Samba, Gary Cahill and Phil Jagielka are other names that I hear mentioned about Arsenal too. However, can these players play the way that Arsenal like to play? I don't think so.

So, my question is, with all of the transfer activity that has come and gone and will come and go before the season starts, how do you expect two of the most consistent teams to fair in the transfer market and how will that reflect in their performances next season?

 

[Brilliant Human Being]

Before I respond to the question posed in this thread, I'd just like to make a few points regarding the first post:

For example, did anyone actually think that Manchester United would beat Barcelona in the Champions League Final? I certainly didn't.

I mean, as a United fan and a season ticket holder last season, I legitimately thought that with all the pre-match talk from Ferguson he had some kind of magic plan in order to deal with Barcelona. Alas, I was wrong; but that's beside the point. My point is that there is no shame in losing to Barcelona, perhaps the greatest club team ever assembled. Indeed, there is no shame in being the best of the rest so to speak, as I believe United are, along with Real Madrid. Of course there is no harm in trying to usurp Barcelona, I just don't see any way in which it can be done, without the investiture of a significant period of time to produce a youth system as good as Barcelonas.

In my opinion, Arsenal and Manchester United are very much in need of looking to bring in some quality players that can take them to the next level.

What next level would that be? For Arsenal it is pretty obvious (winning a trophy but for United they are already at the level of Premier League titles and Champions League finals.

However, the consistency that I mentioned earlier may have to take a beating for both teams to accomplish that goal. Manchester United don't spend money often and when they do, they generally bring in superstar players. They rely on home-grown players a lot and if you look at their team right now, you can see a huge level of consistency from the back to the front. The spine of their team rarely changes but ageing and other concerns mean that, for the first time in a long while, Manchester United have to look to rebuild a team.

Last summer: Javier Hernandez bought for £8 million. Bebe (as wank as he is) £7.4 million. Chris Smalling for £8-£10 million.

The summer before that: Antonio Valencia for £16 million, Gabriel Obertan for £3 million and Mame Diouf for £3-£5 million.

The point is, Manchester United consistently spend money every season to refresh and invigorate the squad. And while it is true that there is a reliance on home-grown players, most of them have been brought in at great expense: Rooney, Ferdinand, Smalling, now Young and Jones. Rebuilding a team cannot be done over the course of a two-month transfer window, and I would argue that the preparations for the retirement of Neville, Giggs, Scholes et al will have been considered well in advance.

Gervinho is a player that I hear about constantly. Chris Samba, Gary Cahill and Phil Jagielka are other names that I hear mentioned about Arsenal too. However, can these players play the way that Arsenal like to play? I don't think so.

Gervinho is a brilliant little player who would slot perfectly into the Arsenal way of playing, and I would argue that all three of the mentioned centre backs would as well (yes, including Samba).

So, my question is, with all of the transfer activity that has come and gone and will come and go before the season starts, how do you expect two of the most consistent teams to fair in the transfer market and how will that reflect in their performances next season?

To be perfectly honest, I am sceptical about buying Ashley Young, as he doesn't really impress me, particularly when factoring in that winger is one position which is relatively packed. Signing De Gea is fantastic for us in my opinion, at least we haven't danced around signing a good keeper for years like the gap between Schmeicel and Van der Sar (Massimo Taibi, I'm looking at you. Cunt.) Phil Jones is slightly overpriced at £16 million, but not as much as Jordan Henderson, and I'll be damned if he's not a future England captain. To the last part of the question, I feel it is too early to comment on how United will play next season.

 

[Gilly?]

Arsenal are dropping off the pace as far as I'm concerned. They'll be renowned to losing Fabregas in the summer in my opinion and they'll have to find a direct replacement. It's all good with Wilshire being as good as he is, but I don't think he's good enough to replace who's essentially the best central midfielder in the league.

The potential in signing Gervinho is decent, he's very direct and he's more technically sound than Walcott who is completely wasted out wide. I'd see Gervinho completing the 4-3-3 that Arsenal generally play.

As for the central defender problem, Cahill would be their best bet as technically he's quite good and can pass the ball. If Arsenal decide to play a deep back line then Samba would be within a good shout, but considering he has the movement of an oil tanker I'd stay well clear.

With Man Utd. It's clear that Bacon Face is leaving a legacy before he finally retires. Jones and Smalling are the future and De Gea will no doubt become one of the best in a few years time, I'd just expect quite a few nervy moments from him, luckily he'll have the likes of Vidic in front of him for the time being so commanding the box and what not aren't going to be as essential as it would be with a younger back line.

Chelsea will be the ones to watch out for next season. Villas-Boas will get them playing lovely, attacking football with a high pressing game which will get the likes of Torres scoring again.

 

[Phoenix]

To clarify on Nasri/Fabregas, Barca have only stated they wanted Cesc, not Nasri, there were rumours about him going to Man United, but they were exactly that.

With the traditional Cesc/Barca situation, in short, if Barca want Cesc, they're going to have to pay for him the actual value he's worth. Given how much got spent on Torres and Ronaldo, Cesc's value is certainly around those players, but if Barca wish to undervalue and insult him with the offers they're providing, they seriously need to look elsewhere but also give a wake-up call to Cesc. If he goes to Barca, he will just be on the bench, they just want to be like Arsenal and have a team slowly be ready to take over when the likes of Xavi and Iniesta plan to retire, so doing that by taking a first team player and relegating him is not the ideal means. As said, Barca need to pay the value he's worth, he's younger than I am by a month and to say his value has gone down already when he just went through a post-World Cup season with injuries and fatigue from the previous season passing over, no wonder he's had a tough one.

As for Arsenal's situation, they have a defence that can be decent but they lost their most vital player, Thomas Vermaelen, to a season long injury. He was the leader type defender they needed and Arsenal's problem is that they have a Plan A with the first team, but no Plan B players to back them up. The back lot is definitely getting finalised, but they need someone who can lead when Vermaelen is unavailable. Midfield wise, they have a good centre pack with choices from Cesc, Wilshire, Ramsey, Song, etc to keep the centre of the park working, they just need more pace on the wings and a striker who's goal hungry, but alas they never work for the team, see the likes of Jeffers, Aliadiere, Reyes, Chamakh and Bendtner, they're strikers who need balls fed to them and end up being targets while the 5 behind them in RVP, etc are people who can create fabulous goals but primarily aim to feed the striker. Why did Henry and Bergkamp work so well? Because they fed each other and would hunt for the ball, not wait for it. Arsenal needs that balance between the strikers, people who can fed and deliver because they do lack on confidence in firepower.

But in the end, what they truly need is a leader on the team, someone who can fire them up and lead on the troops when the going gets tough. Cesc and RVP are not the type to do that, but someone like Vermaelen is. You need someone who can push the team on mentally, that is what Arsenal have lacked in recent times and Wengers need to bring in experience but leadership as well because they have a team that can challenge, they just need the added belief that they can do it.

 

[¡Roján!]

I am a diehard Arsenal fan and it really annoys me how basically all of our pivotal players are (let's face it) gonna leave. I know that Arsenal are a great team that won't just suffer a disaster if they lose Fabregas or Nasri (as they are both replaceable), but what worries me is how long it will take for us to re-build the team. I'm fine with waiting another year until we grab a trophy as i'm confident in Arsene Wenger's coaching skills. The problem, however, lies in the other fake Arsenal fans who want trophies and blame all of our short-comings on Wenger and his stupid stubborn attitude. But, let's not forget, this is the guy who brought us the most success we've had in decades and changed the way we played football. People need faith and patience if Nasri and Fabregas (hell, even Clichy) leaves as it does take time to get a team to be a team (ask Real Madrid). And, for those who say Wenger doesn't buy, this summer will be a test. If Arsenal don't replace the players who left even I may lose a bit of faith.

 

[Ming]

Chelsea will be the ones to watch out for next season. Villas-Boas will get them playing lovely, attacking football with a high pressing game which will get the likes of Torres scoring again.

I would think so, Villas-Boas said that his main focus in management is to bring out the best of your players and he said he doesn't want to make any radical changes. So that sounds like Mourinho's charisma and Ancellotti's free-flowing football perhaps taking place next season which is very good indeed.

Fabregas' and Nasri's departure would be a huge loss to the Arsenal team. I doubt they'd manage to find a suitable replacement for either player(unless you're counting Gervinho for Nasri) and as good as Wilshere is, he's not as talented as Fabregas. I can easily see Man City or even Liverpool overtaking Arsenal in the league next season if Arsenal lose their two top players and don't improve their defence(which I think is near laughable without Vermalean BTW). If Arsenal lose Nasri and Fabregas, it will hugely reflect on their performance next season, Fabregas in more or less irreplaceable and Nasri would probably need a more valid replacement than Gervinho.

Manchester United have done well in the transfer market this season, although I wasn't too sure about the signing of Young, with Valencia, Nani, Park already at their disposal. I do rate Young higher than Nani and Park but not by much. Phil Jones was a great future investment, his partnership with Smalling could be great in the future. De Gea was also a very good signing as he is very athletic for a goalkeeper and has good reflexes, he's also very comfortable for his age. I have always thought though that Utd should cease Carrick and sign a valid replacement like Scott Parker or maybe Jack Rodwell. Carrick is nothing more than shit IMO, even though his role in the team isn't exactly perceived as glamorous he's still not good enough to be there especially for a league-winning side. Next season I see Man Utd playing better football than last season and maybe more efficient in terms of results.

 

[Schwing]

I'm yet to be convinced by the signings made by United this month. Phil Jones is certainly one for the future and alongside Chris Smalling, I can see us having a strong defensive line for years after Ferdinand and Vidic leave the club but I can't see him playing so regular this season. Smalling only got the chance to impress as he did last season because Ferdinand was out for a lot of the year. I honestly feel that that will continue this season. Ferdinand just isn't as fit as he used to be and is getting closer and closer to retiring. The fact that Vidic and not Rio has the armband shows this is clear in SAF's mind too. Vidic isn't going anywhere for a number of years. He's the captain and will play the majority of games partnered with Rio or Smalling. Jones is going to have a struggle on his hands, competing for his place with a less than impressive but more experienced Johnny Evans.

The only saving grace for Jones could be the times he was played at Blackburn as a holding midfielder. Perhaps this could be the role he takes up in an effort to fill the void left by Roy Keane. It's a long shot but it could justify the heavy price tag.

As for Ashley Young, I like him but he doesn't make the team walk with a swagger. I remember the signing of Wayne Rooney and how the entire stadium was buzzing with excitement when he made his debut. I was there that night and Old Trafford was bouncing which isn't something that can be said very often. The emotion was excitement. I think when Young debuts, the emotion will be more like curiosity. The same curiosity we had when we signed Ronaldo or Nani or Hernandez.

Don't get me wrong, those three I just named have gone on to become great players (and in one instance, the greatest player) but there wasn't immediate excitement. It was excitement that was eased in and only after a while did we notice just what we had got our hands on.
Interestingly, Hernandez seems to have achieved this faster than Ronaldo did... A man can dream!!!

De Gea is a marvellous signing. As someone else said earlier... Thank God we haven't gone the long way round again. Short of Barthez who was... alright... we had Taibi, Bosnich, Howard and so many others who just weren't of the same quality. Van Der Sar was a safety net... rarely making mistakes you just could always trust him in a similar way we could trust Peter Schmeichel. Obviously, I'm going to give him a while to settle in... it's a new style of playing and at a brand new level but this kid has another two decades ahead of him. He could be a United Legend waiting to happen. Fingers crossed.

There is nothing bought so far that makes me think Barcelona will start to worry. Even signing someone like Sneijder or Nasri would still only be one player. If we managed to get both... then I might start paying attention.

 

[Dowdsy McDowds]

As a United fan, I'm a bit puzzled over how Young is going to fit in as I'm not sure where his best position is. He's fast on the wings, but Valencia is pretty dam powerful and really ignited the second half of our season but sadly had a poor showing in the Champions League final. Up front, Hernandez and Rooney are without doubt our best partnership and hopefully can carry on the form they showed last season. Berbatov has had his moments, but now with Young potentially another option for a second striker as well as Welbeck coming back to the fold, I feel it may be best for the big guy to move on.

Phil Jones is an expensive squad player, but considering how many games United could be facing, it is a wise move by Fergie. De Gea might take some time to fit in, but the guy is young and will get a lot of help from Ferdinand and Vidic. Lindegaard is still to have a proper run out so I imagine he will be the Carling Cup goalkeeper this year whether or not Kuscack moves on.

Just hearing that Charlie Adam has signed for Liverpool and I would have liked to see him get snapped up by Fergie as he is a fairly cheap signing and could really develop on such a big stage. As a fellow Scot I wish him well though. Nasri is perhaps more creative in an imaginative sense than Adam so I'm still hoping he will head our way too as I'm fed up with the mixed messages from Sneijder and Inter Milan. Cleverley could be the next Scholes if he can stay free of injury and rise to the occassion. Wouldn't imagine him as a regular but at least 20 appearances would be a good season for the guy.


I feel a bit sorry for Arsenal. No really.

Wenger is a good coach with a great philosophy, but the application of the philosophy just hasn't worked out for him in the last few years. With the exodus of several key players looming large and limited speculation on new players bringing in, it would be a strange sight to not see them in the top 4.

Teams in the top 4 next season - Chelsea, City, Liverpool, United.

 

[Bish7]

I'm an Arsenal fan, and a depressed one at that. I'm just fed up of Wenger saying we'll buy if we find the right player yet he shows so much loyalty to mediocre players. I expect Fabregas to go but wouldn't be surprised to see Nasri stay. One thing's for sure, at present with the current squad, we have no chance of winning anything next season.

 

[ARLO]

Well I'm an Arsenal fan and I've been pretty pissed at Arsene Wenger's stubbornness when it comes to buying players.

But I think he is actually gunna bring in some people, and it looks to be a case of quality over quantity. We have Ivorian international in the bag. He just needs to pass a medical. From what I've heard, we are chasing guys like Hugo Rodallega, Juan Mata, Garry Cahill & maybe even Charles N'Zogbia.

But can you see the common link between them? THEY'RE NOT WHAT WE NEED! We need a good goalkeeper. We since Lehmann left. And with the inevitable loss of Cesc Fabregas we need a truly world class midfielder to replace him. I think Nasri will stay coz Wenger doesn't want him to go to an English team.

As for Man U, I don't really follow them but apparently they are really chasing Wes Sneijder, who would be a good fit. I don't really think they need many more additions after breakout seasons from Valencia & Hernandez.

 

[Dowdsy McDowds]

Well I'm an Arsenal fan and I've been pretty pissed at Arsene Wenger's stubbornness when it comes to buying players.

But I think he is actually gunna bring in some people, and it looks to be a case of quality over quantity. We have Ivorian international in the bag. He just needs to pass a medical. From what I've heard, we are chasing guys like Hugo Rodallega, Juan Mata, Garry Cahill & maybe even Charles N'Zogbia.

But can you see the common link between them? THEY'RE NOT WHAT WE NEED! We need a good goalkeeper. We since Lehmann left. And with the inevitable loss of Cesc Fabregas we need a truly world class midfielder to replace him. I think Nasri will stay coz Wenger doesn't want him to go to an English team.

As for Man U, I don't really follow them but apparently they are really chasing Wes Sneijder, who would be a good fit. I don't really think they need many more additions after breakout seasons from Valencia & Hernandez.

I'm beginning to think that Arsene is half-Scottish now due to his stinginess in the market! Your boy Scezsny did pretty well for the most part and is only 20 or so? Give him some time and a decent defence in front of him and he'll gain more confidence. As long as he doesn't turn into the next Artur Boruc!

Valencia actually joined the season before but was croaked by the Old Trafford pitch in September against Rangers in the Champions League so missed the majority of the season. He was immense when he came back though. United do need a creative midfielder though, Fletcher and Carrick are good at breaking up possession and distribution but aren't the most imaginative, although Cleverley looks to have a bit more guile than those two.

 

[KettleFace]

United are United. No matter what their transfer window has been like, they'll always be there or there abouts for the majority of the season. De Gea was someone they've been tailing for a while, but it remains to be seen if he's up to the standards of the Premier League. Every time there's a highly-rated player from a foreign league that comes to the Premier League, alot of people/teams always fail to evaluate the key factor in their transfer - whether or not they're up to the pace and physical nature of the Premier League. As it turns out there are alot of players that come from overseas that struggle in this league, and it isn't at all surprising. It'll be interesting to see how De Gea does, but keep in mind that he's only 20. Yes he's got the experience with Atletico, but this is a different ball game. Phil Jones is one for the future with Smalling and Ashley Young could well prove to be the purchase of the summer. Expect another strong season from United.

I don't care who Arsenal buy this summer because they won't be getting anywhere near being title challengers again next season, and there's one very good reason for that. Arsene Wenger. It's been 6 years now since they last won a trophy. I don't care about what he's done in the past for them, there's quite simply no excuse for a team with the potential and expectations that Arsenal have to not win a trophy in that amount of time. Every season they have opportunity after opportunity handed to them to take advantage of other team's mistakes and really cease it, but they never quite manage it. Wenger's tactical mindset will just continue to lead them into a world of further obscurity until someone else takes over the reigns.

 

[Brilliant Human Being]

The key thing with Wenger is that he's obviously a very proud man, which can also be seen as stubbornness. Sadly, this pride is mislaid when one considers how far his squad is behind Uniteds; who in the end everybody is trying to catch. That being said, it is true that Wenger only has to swallow some of his pride to buy a replacement for Fabregas, buy an actual leader who can fuck people up (the biggest mistake of the last 6 years is that there hasn't been an adequate replacement for Adams or Keown) and and maybe develop a form of playing that actually works. Sure, the tippy-tappy shit is all well and good when you have Xavi and Iniesta; but with Denilson and Abou Diaby? Fuck off. Unfortunately these things will never happen, because bringing in someone who will actually have a go at people when they do something wrong instead of doing sod all will inevitably disrupt the nursery, it doesn't matter if we win or lose, mindset that Wenger seems to have fostered on the Arsenal team.

 

[Miko]

Not much to say about United, like KettleFace says they'll always be competing thanks to Whiskey Nose, United currently survive by having a near unbeatable back line at times with Vidic, as the head of it, two midfielders who disrupt play, creative wingers, Rooney and a striker. This looks to continue with the signings of Phil Jones and Ashley Young. I'd like to bet that in 2 years the Da Silva twins are full time fullbacks on both sides as well, Fabio's really come into his own, playing better than Rafael even and Evra is certainly on the way down.

Arsenal, well, when Wenger took over the previous team they were awesome, unfortunately Wenger's own vision while being nice to watch, arent exactly winners. I still think its something that a bit of investment will sort out but he wont, he has been expected to spend big this summer, even according to his own superiors, but he's still signing babies, one spank and then off to Arsenal.

I hate to be the person to say "spend some fucking money" because I kind of like how he runs a football team, on the cheap and still competitive, but maybe he should spend some money now and a couple more English players couldnt hurt, it'd be nice to see anyway.