The Kofi/Orton botch on Raw

[marklouis]

I don't think it was meant to be a punt. I say this because Orton had gotten on his hands and knees and started banging his fists on the mat. He never does this before a punt, only to build up the RKO. When he punts someone, he gets that look in his eyes and slowly backs into the corner. He didn't do that.

I think Orton is just a spoiled brat who didn't get to go through his routine. The guy has had everything handed to him throughout is career, thanks partially to having the right last name. What he did was wrong, he should have saved the outburst for back stage.

 

[MoxViolence]

something went wrong because when the ref raised ortons hand you can clearly see him say "fuck that man" or "fuckin ...." but he most def drops the f bomb. it does look like orton said the word "punt" coming out the corner. kofi fucked up somewhere....but like everyone elses opinion here..i think orton is huge baby. he has a big problem with this. the incident with kennedy..in the ring where he hit the mat several times and backstage when he flipped and basically got kennedy fired. orton also screamed "fuck you" to a fan after the match with hhh where he busted his arm up. i forget which ppv it was.... all in all kofi messed up but i dont think it was that damn serious for orton to flip like that. pg my ass when vince allows this shit

 

[MammaJamma22]

He was obviously going for the punt. Look at the way he waits in the corner. Look at how he pushes Kofi back down to the mat when Kofi first starts to get up. Look how he says "fuck that" or whatever, when he gets the pinfall.

Obviously, a punt was called for. Kofi just messed up....but oh well. It happens a lot and I don't think he's going to be punished. A slap on the wrist, maybe.

As for Orton's demeanor during/after the botch....I don't see what's wrong with it. Only people who are as obsessed with the behind-the-scenes of the business, like the IWC, would even notice a botch and then realize his reaction is a direct result. It's not like he totally broke character....

 

[dmacizdman]

if the punt was really supposed to happen, and judging from Orton's repeated F bombs while he was slamming his fists to the mat it looks like it was, he should have thought on the fly and whispered for Cody and Ted to hold Kofi. while they hold him, they tell him to sell the punishment ortan gives and then stay down and take the punt.

yeah it would have strayed away from what was supposed to happen, but i think vince would have commended orton for being able to think on the fly.

 

[Serious Mozzarella]

Orton has been known to be a complete baby, citing Kennedy's firing, but I don't think this was a botched segment. If Kofi was being written off the show for a few weeks, the punt would have happened at the end of the match. Orton wouldn't have said "fuck it" and just end with an RKO.

What you guys are missing is that Randy Orton is a very good actor. He's great on the mic, can tell a brilliant story in the ring, and really knows how to pretty much be a personified snake in the ring. He ALWAYS gets down on his knees when he's about to RKO, sometimes with that much intensity.

While the "stupid" thing was probably because of a botched move, it doesn't look at all to me like he was about to punt Kofi. Also, I'm thinking the announcers would have announced the punt, as they get notes before the broadcast. Granted, I don't think it's scripted, but I think they have to be prepared for something big to happen, and they would have expected Orton to punt Kofi.

Now, if you all are correct, and Orton's on-screen behavior was a product of Kofi botching a punt, then needless to say, Vince will be upset with Orton for multiple reasons. One of them being for Orton acting like a brat on screen. The other:

Raw ends when Raw ends, which is usually 11:09-11:15. Orton had enough time to work something into the match where Legacy comes in, beats down Kofi for a while, and ending with a punt. Or simply doing it as Kofi was recovering from the RKO, which would have been the perfect amount of time, considering it's Orton's finisher.

I simply don't think it was botched.

 

[evilshizno]

Randy is clearly saying "PUNT" coming out of the corner and even trys to push kofis head back down to do it. but kofi starts to crawl the wrong way and stand up which gives randy like 2 seconds to set up an rko and is clearly pissed then jacks kofis face into the mat,randys reactions through out the rest of the match speak for themself. kofi fucked up. just another example on how kofi just might not be ready for the main event yet.

 

[trailbyfire]

After I first saw this, I didn't think this was a botch, but just Orton playing up his character. However, after seeing it again it was obvious that something went wrong and that Orton was pissed at Kofi for screwing something up. Even if Kofi screwed something up though, it took Ted way too long to hit Kofi, and the hit didn't even look legitimate when he did strike Kofi...certainly not enough to keep him on the mat for as long as he was. So I'd say that Kofi shouldn't be the only person to blame for this.

What I dont like about this whole thing though is that if Orton did call this punt on the spot, then it shouldn't be Kofi's fault for not going along with it. The punt is supposed to be a dangerous move and if Kofi was hit with it then it could've have seriously hurt his push in the mind of the fans. More than that, it could have knocked him out for a few weeks. If the ending was supposed to be done with a punt though, and the whole thign was preplanned, then yes, it is Kofi's fault for not following orders and potentially destroying a really important storyline. However, it shouldn't be Randy's place to dictate the ending if that's what he did do. Think of it like this...Kofi just lost last week and fans were already questioning if he even deserved to be in the match. Furthermore, this wasn't even the first time Kofi lost to Orton. Sure, he pinned him at Survivor Series but he's lost 4 matches to Orton since that point, including one at a pay per view...and the only match that Kofi did beat Orton in, he only did so with the help of Cuban. So, if the WWE had any big plans for Kofi and were trying to give him a push, getting punted by Orton would basically kill that whole idea.

If a punt was planned by the writers, then it is obvious that Kofi's rise to the top is going to end pretty soon. Not only did he botch this movie, but he hasn't performed too well on the mike either. Remember, earlier in the show, he got frazzeled by the crowd chanting "Cena sucks," to the point that Cena had to help him out. So, 2 botches in one night, the missed punt being the huge one, is certainly not going to help Kofi in the future.

 

[rko102]

When Orton's slamming his hands down on the mat you can clearly hear him yelling 'Fuck, Fuck, Fuck!' and if you didn't notice, he put way more force into the RKO than usual. And watch him in the corner before he walks up to Kofi, he wants to punt him..and he even goes to push Kofi down again for the punt but Kofi gets back up again and then Orton takes a fit. To the person that said he thinks it's part of Randy's character? It has NOTHING to do with that. Something messed up; whether it's just the punt or the part where DiBiase is supposed to knock Kofi's leg off the rope, I don't know, but something messed up and Orton was really angry. And yeah it might be a bit unprofessional to have reacted the way Orton did but think about it; you jobbed a lot for this guy in the past few months, and on his first main event with Orton and Cena he forgets the pre-planned match ending. I'd be pissed too. And knowing Orton he probably bitched out Kofi backstage in front of everyone, and it's Kofi's own fault for fucking up. Oh and finally, to say that Orton could have done it after he pinned him is wrong because obviously right away he's supposed to stare down Sheamus from the ring with Legacy, and if you're Sheamus, wouldn't you be more intimidated to see a punt to the head than an RKO? Continue letting me know in this thread what you think.

 

[BladeRunner]

Someone was saying Orton didn't go out of character because he's a heel.

But the thing is, Orton is a rather quiet heel. He's not a heel that mouths off to everyone with expletives. He's like a snake that's quiet until it strikes. He did go out of character and looked angry for real.

That RKO looked pretty nasty too. Yeah, this is probably going to add to his heel heat, but he's getting it in a real heal way kinda like Jericho out in public and fighting people.

I definitely think Kofi messed up. But I also think Orton overreacted.

And the funny thing to me is, Orton's dropping F-bombs left and right on a supposedly "PG" show. So that should be the biggest issues to the runners of WWE.

What will be interesting is where Kofi will be on the totem pole next monday, and what Orton will be doing, and whether anyone got reprimanded for anything.

 

[Serious Mozzarella]

When Orton's slamming his hands down on the mat you can clearly hear him yelling 'Fuck, Fuck, Fuck!' and if you didn't notice, he put way more force into the RKO than usual. And watch him in the corner before he walks up to Kofi, he wants to punt him..and he even goes to push Kofi down again for the punt but Kofi gets back up again and then Orton takes a fit. To the person that said he thinks it's part of Randy's character? It has NOTHING to do with that. Something messed up; whether it's just the punt or the part where DiBiase is supposed to knock Kofi's leg off the rope, I don't know, but something messed up and Orton was really angry.

Yeah, I looked at it again, and Orton's anger is just really out of place. I do think something messed up, but I really don't think a punt was written into the story. I mean, I know the WWE has a habit of completely ret-conning character traits in wrestlers, but the Kofi push was way too recent. He already made a name for himself as somebody not to fuck with. If this was written in, then it was a bad decision, and I'm glad Kofi made the decision not to go with it.

On the other hand, if Orton decided he was going to be creative in the middle of a match and end it with a punt, again, I'm glad Kofi made the decision to screw it up. Randy Orton's been known to be arrogant, thinking he should have creative control over his character, and known to get people fired (mentioned this already).

And yeah it might be a bit unprofessional to have reacted the way Orton did but think about it; you jobbed a lot for this guy in the past few months, and on his first main event with Orton and Cena he forgets the pre-planned match ending. I'd be pissed too. And knowing Orton he probably bitched out Kofi backstage in front of everyone, and it's Kofi's own fault for fucking up.

He jobbed to him once, and weeks ago. After that, Kofi's been getting the shit beat out of him week after week. I mean really, they keep feeding Kofi to Orton, and Kofi's done nothing but job to the guy since the last PPV.

Oh and finally, to say that Orton could have done it after he pinned him is wrong because obviously right away he's supposed to stare down Sheamus from the ring with Legacy, and if you're Sheamus, wouldn't you be more intimidated to see a punt to the head than an RKO? Continue letting me know in this thread what you think.

Bullshit. He could have punted Kofi to send a message as Sheamus was standing there. That kind of thing happens all the time, and if Orton wanted to do something, he would have. He did a whole lot of standing around after the match. Getting his hand raised by the referee, having Legacy come into the ring, then staring down Sheamus.

 

[SinCityBlitz]

Hmmm... a heel infuriating wrestling fans, having them frown upon his actions and even question his level of professionalism! Sounds like he's doing his job pretty well to me.

I was thinking the same thing. The guy was doing his job and it is working very well.

People are reading way too much into this. No one knows one way or the other if this was a botch and who botched what. But it doesn't seem to stop anybody for ripping Kofi or Randy. Even if there was a botch BFD. The best in the business have screwed up at some point in their career. It's called learning.

As far as people saying Orton got Kennedy fired, bullshit. Kennedy did a good job of that by saying he didn't do drugs to only find out later on that he lied. Plus he was hurt 90% of the time and when he comes back he screws up enough to just about hurt somebody. Ken did a good job of getting himself fired.

 

[I_Like_All_Wrestling]

Getting punted in the face is probably the move that I would be least willing to take. If they had not worked out a punt scene prior to the match then I could see why Kofi might prefer to take an RKO. After watching this again I can see what people are saying; Orton does repeatedly yell fuck, and does call Kofi stupid. Whether or not that's because Kofi did something wrong, I don't know. But if it is, then wow, way to be professional Orton.

As for the "writing him out for a few weeks" part, it would be simple. If he was supposed to be punted to be out for a few weeks then they could immediately have him attacked backstage. Problem solved. I don't think they would go an change creative plans when something could be easily rectified.

 

[Muttley]

It's obvious that the match was supposed to end in a punt. Orton does say "punt" but did Kofi hear or see him say it?? Orton even tries to keep Kofi down on the ground by pushing him, but Kofi continued to get up...so I think Orton just went to the next best thing and RKO'd him.

I would believe that his whole "STUPID" screaming at Kofi was because he actually thought Kofi was stupid for trying to get the WWE title, but the fact that Orton looked up at the sky for some strange reason and then dropped the F bomb, it's obvious that there was more to the ending.

I doubt Kofi gets future endeavored, but it would be insane if Orton actually pulled that off.

 

[Kinghaspoken]

i dont think a punt was originally planned because Kofi's ring work to this point has been great with orton Kofi hasnt botched anything as of yet and all orton had to do if he was supposed to punt him was RKO him and then whisper to kofi that your going to punt him. so i think the punt may have been a call randy orton audibled to rather than it being the planned finish. and good point about a stare down with shaemus but wouldnt punting Kofi after he had beat him looked more menacing

 

[Serious Mozzarella]

Look I'm not completely sure if I've got the facts right...I just think Kofi messed up, and that there should have been a punt. And the worst part is when Michael Cole goes and says that Kofi never saw the RKO coming. I saw it as soon as Orton began pounding the mat lol.

No one has the facts, this is all speculation. For all we know, this whole thing could have been written in.

As for Michael Cole: Why wouldn't he say that? It's in kayfabe. No one ever sees the RKO coming in kayfabe.

About there needing to be a punt? I 100%, completely disagree. Kofi has been jobbing for weeks. If they want him to be out of the main event, then there are better ways of going about doing it than to have him job to Orton for weeks when they could just throw him in a mid-card feud with someone else. He doesn't need to be written out of the show for weeks, because when he comes back, he would be right there after Orton again, in the main-event, right where they don't want him.

 

[VintageWWE]

When I first saw it it was clear that Orton was furious of some kind of botch that occurred in the ring. At first I thought he botched the fall but now watching it again it is clear that Orton wanted to go for he punt. Why else would he push Kofi down again after he was trying to get up. I have never seen anyone do that before. In my opinion Orton has the right to be mad if indeed Kofi botched the ending. Kofi deserved to be called stupid but Orton went to far dropping all those F bombs. Besides the F bombs I don't see anything wrong with Orton's actions as it is clear Kofi botched the ending.

 

[jcmichaels42]

Ok so fine, Kofi missed the spot and he messed up. I'm guessing a lot of people wouldn't have even noticed if Orton didn't act like a little girl and throw a hissy fit in the middle of the ring.

Act like a professional and pull the guy aside backstage and say something to him. Don't act like a jagoff on national television and try to embarass the guy. It just makes everyone involved look worse.

 

[Southwind]

Wow, ok I haven't been able to post much because I've been trying to balance school, and watching my five year old brother.

This is unbelievable Orton getting mad oh no fire him reprimand him he's mean he's awful poor Kofi !!

Wake up, this is a business and these are men, not school girls with skirts. Kofi's a big boy, and can get over it. Orton is at the top right now, and wants the best out of each and every match, so when Kofi (probably) messes up, he got pissed whats the big deal ?

Face it half you smarks bashing on Orton are still bitter over your falsified opinion of him firing your hero Ken Kennedy. The single most overrated and pathetic entity in wrestling right now.

Orton has a tough job he's so damn good at what he does that most of the smark "cool" audiences like last mondays cheer him. They realize he is the very best , and this real life anger he showed could contribute to getting more boos, and heat which is tough to come by nowadays.

People need to get over themselves in the end he did his job and got heat from all us "smart" fans here in the IWC, how is that anything short of impressive ?

The name of the game is getting a reaction, and Orton did it in the toughest of places. No wonder Vince Russo would take him over Cena, HHH, HBK, Edge, Jericho, and everybody else on the WWE roster.

 

[trashboy]

as someone else already said.. i really think everyone is reading too much into it.. Orton is a huge heel, he's doing his job.. if there was something huge during that match that didn't happen and orton was legitimately pissed at kofi, wouldn't the main page of wrestlezone mention something about it? until we know for sure, I think it was just scripted for all that to happen, including him getting up away from a punt and pushed down then RKO'd.. when i first watched the match, i didn't think anything about a supposed "botch" until i came here and saw everyone being pissy about it.. besides that, Orton's the best right now, he's great

 

[Wrestlefan27]

I don't get why everyone is saying Orton is the unprofessional one here...

If it was indeed a botch, then Kofi is the unprofessional one and Orton has every right to react the way he did. It's live tv. You get paid to get the job done. People who botch end up hurting others in this business. For Orton to be mad about Kofi's lack of professionalism is perfectly justifiable, as is the way he expressed his anger.

If it isn't a botch, and Orton tried to change the finish, then Kofi did nothing wrong, unless he was told beforehand to defer to Orton in such a case. Then, and only then, are Orton's actions questionable.

I thought he just called Kofi stupid as part of kayfabe, because he dared to challenge him, but if he called him that because of a botch, then Kofi deserved to get called stupid.

That was the best looking RKO/Cutter I've ever seen though, and I wish it would be done that way every time.

 

[Orton is god]

i honestly dont know what any of you are talking about. i really dont think orton flipped out. i think he was just calling him stupid because he had the nerve to come down to the ring earlier and get involved, i think some of you are looking to much into this. its all apart of the script ladies and gentlemen. if it was a botch dont you think orton would of did a couple of other moves first and then whisper to kofi to stay down??

 

[Serious Mozzarella]

I don't get why everyone is saying Orton is the unprofessional one here...

If it was indeed a botch, then Kofi is the unprofessional one and Orton has every right to react the way he did. It's live tv. You get paid to get the job done. People who botch end up hurting others in this business. For Orton to be mad about Kofi's lack of professionalism is perfectly justifiable, as is the way he expressed his anger.

If it isn't a botch, and Orton tried to change the finish, then Kofi did nothing wrong, unless he was told beforehand to defer to Orton in such a case. Then, and only then, are Orton's actions questionable.

When you go to a stage play, and an actor messes up lines, other actors do the professional thing, helping the actor, and doing things to make it work in the play so they can move on. When people mess up, they work it into the play?

For instance, an actor messes up a line, and pauses.

Another actor who knows the line would say something like, "Did you mean to say that ________?"

Then the show would go on.

The actor wouldn't suddenly break character and yell, "FUCK, YOU'RE FUCKING STUPID. SHIT. STUPID! FUCK!"

Professional performances don't work that way, and if Kofi messed up, I'm thinking it was an honest mistake. Now, if Orton tried to change the ending of the match, well that's no one's fault but Orton's.

Face it half you smarks bashing on Orton are still bitter over your falsified opinion of him firing your hero Ken Kennedy. The single most overrated and pathetic entity in wrestling right now.

Er, no, that's not what I'm basing my opinion on. At all. You have no idea how I feel about anything to make that kind of assumption about me or anyone else who's siding with Kofi on this one. Even so, it doesn't make my opinion less valid than yours.

People need to get over themselves in the end he did his job and got heat from all us "smart" fans here in the IWC, how is that anything short of impressive ?

Probably because there is a difference between heel heat and real life heat. Real life heat is the heat Triple H gets back stage for politicking. Real life heat is what Chris Jericho got for punching that girl, even though I still believe it was justified. HEEL heat is what Legacy gets for interrupting in matches. HEEL heat is what Orton got when he punted Vince. There is a serious difference that you completely lost sight of.

 

[DonovanViper]

Hi there long time reader first time poster.

I noticed (which I don't think anyone else has brought up yet) something Ted did which could have made Randy become irate and lash out the way he did.

When Kofi mounts the ropes to do the punches, Ted does take a while to enter the ring, when he does it looks like he "chops" Kofi's leg from underneath him, but the way I see it is that he misses Kofi and hits Orton in either:

a) The stomach region
or
b) the groin area (a potential, but unintentional low blow)

It was just a thought as Randy may have blamed Kofi as he could have interoperated it being a knee or a foot from Kofi.
This would be understandable as he would be in pain and would lash out in the manner he did in the video, as it would look odd if he was winded when it was meant to be an attack on Kofi.

Just an idea guys

 

[Wrestlefan27]

I agree, but this isn't a stage play. This is wrestling. And I don't think it's out of character for him to react that way. Many people view it as Orton just being "evil". Orton's reaction is in a time and place where it doesn't draw the audience out of the show, because he's supposed to be an evil dick. If he was a face and did it then I'd see it as out of character. If he called him out on it on the mic, that would be unprofessional. But I don't see anything wrong with what he did in this situation. Unless he was intentionally trying to hurt Kofi with that RKO, because that looked vicious. He should definitely be punished for that if that was the case.

 

[airvar]

I don't see how Kofi could have "botched" the ending..

I mean he has one match for the night how do you "forget" you are supposed to get punted? That just dosen't seem realistic to me. It is POSSIBLE, but not realistic, especially not for someone who is as expirenced as kofi kingston in the ring.

I mean I am sure they talk it all out before hand, probably even practing it and deciding what will happen, and for someone to just "forget" the way the thing is supposed to end is kind of hard to believe.

My personal opinon is it was NEVER supposed to be a punt. I think the most likely reason Orton yelled "stupid" and looked pissed is because he is a great preformer, and that is what he is supposed to do.

The Kofi - Orton Rivarly has been a GREAT rivarly so far, and has received many great reviews, and was really enjoyable to watch .. Lately it has lost steam, and the best way to extend a rivarly like that is to throw a title into the mix.

I think Orton acted pissed because his character (Kayfabee), while usually a silent pyschopath type, is supposed to be getting Irate with Kofi Kingston standing in his way again, and again , and again, no matter how many times he beats him down. So Orton is showing a more violent side towards him because of how frustrating it is.


I just don't see how Kofi could have "forgoten" the match was supposed to end in a punt, especially when ortons punt is shown as such a giant blow.