Struggle for Dominance.

BillAlfonso

Getting Noticed By Management
I'm relatively new to the IWC so some of my posts might've already been discussed. If they are, I implore you, please point me in the right direction. Now, where to begin? Let's wind the clocks back ten years. What if the Hart Family(Bret, Owen, Davey Boy, Neidhart) had won their struggle for dominance in the WWF with The Kliq, really HBK and HHH since Kevin Nash, Scott Hall, and Sean Waltman had already left for WCW? I know Stone Cold is a friend of Bret, Owen, and Pillman's, he even inducted Bret into the HOF, and I've heard that The Rock was mentored a little by Bret when he first joined the company in '96, so in a way the Harts' influence was felt for about 4 years vicariously through Austin and The Rock in the Attitude Era but, as you can see, The Kliq ultimately won. What do you think the landscape of the WWE would look like today if the Harts won?
 
Nice to see someone posing different questions although I think that although bret hart could be credited to austins rise to the top and may have tutored the rock, I think it was shawn michaels at wrestlemania that really escalated him and people may bash hhh often but he was the mega heel that almost always came off worse in the end against austin and the rock so without him perhaps they wouldn't be as big too. If you mean in terms of backstage politics then maybe if bret had more say he'd have stuck around longer and owen may not have tried the stunt leading to his death, ultimately regardless of backstage power I think either way, vinces say would have been final, so things mite have been different but not necessarily for the better or worse.
 
Cool topic, and Ive thought the same thing before.

Its haunting seeing the Hart Foundation in 1997 in full force, Bret, Owen, Bulldog, Anvil, and Pillman..and in less than 2 years time they were completely obliterated.

This was the 5 man Hart Foundation's demise:

1)Pillman died Oct 97

2)Bret was screwed out of the WWE

3) Owen was in midcard hell, then died in May 1999

4) Bulldog had his legal and marital issues (and died in May 2002)

5) And Anvil, well lets just say he vanished into thin air because he couldnt float his own boat.

I think above this the Kliq won the war over the Hart Foundation because lets be a bit blunt here, Michaels was Vince's boy. So was Nash, but more Michaels. And he was always in Vince's head.

Vince also cared for Bret but their issues and differences made their friendship stale during Hart's last year or two in the Federation.

In my eyes, the Kliq won the battle and the war.
 
Nice posts, but I have some things to dispute. First, many of us don't understand that wrestling is full of "Kilqs", and so many act as if HHH, HBK, and the others were the only "Kliq" who ran wrestling. Hart was simply upset for two reasons. The first being his time was running out creatively. Bret wasn't coming up with anything new or fresh for his character. On the flip side the others were. Secondly, HBK's rise to power may have appeared to be too early, and so true about the others HHH, Nash, Hall etc...


Let me take you back to when Nash defeated Backlund for the WWF title. Backlund lost in mere seconds, but prior to that Hart lost due to Owen throwing in the towel on that match. Hart never liked the fact that Nash was able to beat Backlund for the WWE title, a man he lost it to just prior. Hart felt it made him look weak. Nash and the his crew wanted him to win it on RAW live. Obviously no one decided on that, but to this day at MSG that was the fastest pin for the world title ever in wrestling history.

Bret wasn't the only one who made claims against the Kliq. Bam Bam, Shane Douglas, etc... were also big time haters of the Kliq, and maybe rightfully so. However who was or is the bigger star Douglas/Bam Bam, or HHH/HBK? That should answer itself. Nothing against the Hart family as they have had a massive impact on the wrestling world.

In the end "Bret screwed Bret" just like Vince said before. Hart didn't even realize how much he meant to the fans of the WWF, and leaving for WCW was proof. Bret was huge, and the fact that he never really changed his overall "act" hurt him big time. Hart wanted the old days back. Bret was to old school to realize how much of a star he really was. His humbleness hurt him big time.

What if Bret had proposed the idea of feuding with Hulk Hogan, and taking the torch from him? Instead the opposite happened. Bret lost to Yokozuna, and then Hogan came down and finished off the big man that same night for the title. Bret obviously didn't have the gull to say something. Think about it people. I loved Bret Hart in the early 90's, and I felt like I grew out of Hulkamania. Bret Hart was the best thing going, and he made wrestling feel "real".

What if Hogan turned heel on Bret? Hart never put the ball in his own court. Who knows maybe Hogan would have never gone for that? Hogan had an ego of his own, but I think Hogan would have done it for Bret Hart. We may never know that part ever. In any case I feel Bret had chances, but missed them blindly.

I'm not saying the Kliq was good for wrestling, but they reacted to Hart's complaints, and cashed in. Both Hall, and Nash left for gold to WCW. Had Hart made other decisions, and showed some balls creatively would the Kliq even have existed? On the same note had their not been some sort of "rift" between the two sides could we have seen the NWO or Kliq form as a stable in the WWE?

What I mean is this. HHH, HBK, Nash, Hall, and Pac all decide that they are going to show their backstage power, and reveal that they are all friends. This is a time where the internet wrestling frenzy was just picking up. Most didn't know that these men were all close behind the scenes. Thats why their final good bye was impromptu in a cage in Long Island's Nassau Colliseum. Don't quote me on the "where" in that last statement.

In any case I think that would or could have been huge for the WWE, and WCW could have died years ago. Had Nash, and Hall stayed WCW would have been dying a slow death. Picture these men basically the Kliq, or the perfect NWO. Bret, Taker, Rock, Austin ect taking on this group, and attmepting to save the WWE from their corruption much like what WCW went through with great success. The feuds that could have went do would have been interesting, and even legendary.

Now to say that the Kliq won makes no sense at all. Sean Waltman is a joke. Hall is past his prime, and never was a world champion, not to mention an alcoholic. HBK missed 5 years of his life due to injury. Nash had so many knee surgeries that I don't remember him being in any sort of memorable feud. Nash never had what either Bret, Rock, Austin, or even HBK ever had. Those men had memorable feuds with one or more, but Nash has nothing except a small feud with Show back in WCW.

Hart was retired after being kicked in the head by Billy boy. Owen Hart is a legend, and I despise the fact that he died in such an act of idiocy amongst the WWE creative team at the time, how irresponsible. Will never forgive VKM for that moment. Taker is a legend, and he was a part of the Hart circle. Someone said Austin/Rock were close with him, and if thats true we all know the impact they had on the wrestling business. However both Rock/Austin had short careers in the WWE. Davey is also passed may he rest in peace.

The only true success was not achieved by a group, but by merely one man. That man is HHH. Currently married to the boss's daughter, and having more titles than any other man in NWA,WCW, WWE(F) history second only to Flair. That all speaks for itself. Hunter cashed in big time, and he is the only entity that won if you really want to get technical. Hunter isn't the "Kliq", and even when the NWO was around, where was HHH? Thats why Bret's wife was complaining about Trips when the screwjob went down because Trips chose to side with HBK in all of this.

Hunter had no idea who to side with, but he knew that Vince favored HBK a little more than Bret. Hunter was on solid ground with Hart until he realized what was going on creatively. LEt me explain Taker's relationship with Bret in two ways. HIAC against HBK, it was that match that HBK says he knew he had to retire, and he wrestled the Undertaker. Can you say a "hit" on HBK? Yes, Taker hurt him a little extra for Bret, and it hurt/scared HBK so bad that he had to retire. Why do you think HBK went and found Jesus? He knew he was playing with people's careers. Years later he feels the guilt sinking in, and finds Jesus along the way.

The other explanation to Taker/Bret is this next question. How many times have Taker/HHH had in the WWE's history? Not many is the answer. How is it that the most popular names in wrestling right now in the WWE's last decade haven't had many epic feuds along that time period. Simple, HHH is afraid to step in the ring with him, and probably fears his head is still out there. If you think I am bullshitting you all, watch the last match they had. Tell me what you see from Taker during that match.

The Harts had respect for Hunter because he wasn't taking sides for some time. Hunter was in a tough spot because he was literally in the middle. Had HBK not had HHH I don't know if things would have played out the same. Hunter was literally was HBK's tool for a moment to get over on Vince. Remember Hunter was young, fresh, and had the perfect look for what Vince liked in his superstars. No, Hunter means no DX, and thus no "HBK dropped the ball" speech on RAW. Hunter knew that siding with HBK meant the spotlight.

Not because HBK was the right guy, but merely due to the understanding of HBK's time left in the WWE. Remember HBK had ongoing back problems and substance abuse problems. HHH knew HBK wasn't going to last very much longer. Hart on the other hand didn't seem like he was going to drop the ball any time soon. Meaning that HHH knew he could gain main event status hanging around HBK sooner than with hanging with Bret. He figured Hart would be on his way out to, and that indeed did happen. How many times did Bret/HHH feud? Not many! That isn't a coincidence folks. In the end I feel that these factions crossing paths was the greatest thing to happen to wrestlig, but also the worst.
 

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