"Slavery Is Over, Just Drop It"

[IrishCanadian25]

There is a terrific (and rather heated) debate going on in the WWE section on whether or not the WWE's push of black wrestlers has come to an end. And in the course of that discussion, one statement has come up that I have heard a few times already in a few different places.

"Slavery is over."

"Get over it, slavery ended over 100 years ago."

"I don't know a black slave."

"I don't know a white slave owner."

Now while the fact that the legal definition of slavery has been outlawed for a great deal of time as a result of The Emancipation Proclamation, racism has existed in many forms since this most egregious, pre-Civil War time.

To say that the majority - white males - owe nothing to minorities because slavery and segregation is over is to ignore some glaring statistics. Bear in mind, I work in Human Resources for a living, so these stats are very important in my line of work.

Take this example. Let's say a White Male worked a job for $50,000 per year in the United States of America. Listed below are the average wages that each different demographic was being paid:

Black Male = $36,050

Hispanic Male = $28,750

White Female = $36,750

Black Female = $31,800

Hispanic Female = $25.850

This is based off of the median annual earnings for each demographic, from statistics put together by the US Department of Labor.

It's no secret that white males and paid more than females, blacks, and hispanics, and that minority females are especially handicapped. Now, seeing these numbers, how much do you feel racism has truly dissipated? And do you honestly feel racism is over simply because slavery and segregation have ended?

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

I think racism has dissipated some but there are still some parts of it that still exist. I remember before they had the presidental here at the University of Mississippi, there were talks of the Ku Klux Klan showing up. After Obama was elected, there were several reports of disturbances and fights around the dormitories. I didn't care about what color Obama was, just about what he represented and what he could bring to our country. I as an African-American feel that we have come a long way since the 60s and the 70s and we need to strenghten the bond between blacks and whites more. I didn't go through what my ancestors went through so I don't have hate for white people like they did. Whether some would like to admit it or not, racism still exists and I am saddened to see that it still does. We are accused sometimes of "reverse racism" and we try to defend it by saying that racism is only when whites hate blacks, but it is still racism no matter which way you slice it.

 

[HBK-aholic]

Racism isn't over, and for someone to suggest it is would be stupid. However, and it is a big however, people need to get over slavery, and stop using it as an excuse. Slavery shouldn't even come up in the discussions about racism. Why? Because it was so long ago, it's irrelevant. White people now, do not owe black people anything because of slavery. Look at it on a smaller scale. If your great, great, great grandfather killed someone, would you still be held accountable for it? Would it even come up? No.

What your figures showed me more than anything, is that sexism is just a big a problem. I'd also love to know how those figures mean white men 'owe' anything to minorities?

 

[Uncle Sam]

Honestly never had a person claim that slavery is reason that black people, or really the descendants of any slaves, should get shortcuts or what have you. I'd have liked to have made a similar thread about Israel but I'm not sure that's particularly wise in the current climate.

Most my friends are white. One is from South America and Muslim (and refers to himself as "brown") and one is half-Philipino (erm, how do you spell that?) if that helps fulfil some sort of quota.

I do find the whole concept of affirmative action absolutely ludicrous. I mean, the very concept contradicts itself to such a great degree, I'm amazed it hasn't imploded on itself and created a black hole (which I originally misspelled as "whole" - could've created confusion). Like I've said, social change has to be organic if it's to be sincere. Government just has to remove barriers rather than pushing everyone uncomfortably together.

Tony Blair intentionally put a large amount women up for election in safe Labour seats to increase the amount of female MPs. That's bullshit. Though I do agree with his reform of the Lords to get rid of hereditary peers...

Sorry, got carried away.

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

To say that the majority - white males - owe nothing to minorities because slavery and segregation is over is to ignore some glaring statistics. Bear in mind, I work in Human Resources for a living, so these stats are very important in my line of work.

Take this example. Let's say a White Male worked a job for $50,000 per year in the United States of America. Listed below are the average wages that each different demographic was being paid:

Black Male = $36,050

Hispanic Male = $28,750

White Female = $36,750

Black Female = $31,800

Hispanic Female = $25.850

This is based off of the median annual earnings for each demographic, from statistics put together by the US Department of Labor.

It's no secret that white males and paid more than females, blacks, and hispanics, and that minority females are especially handicapped. Now, seeing these numbers, how much do you feel racism has truly dissipated? And do you honestly feel racism is over simply because slavery and segregation have ended?

More than likely, the statistics you cite are extremely misleading, as they probably don't control for occupation. That is to say, they don't look at what, for example, white males and black males make in comparison to each other in the same profession and position. However, if this is so, it nonetheless says something about the what opportunities are available to minorities.

However, to answer the questions you pose directly, racism in America is extremely overstated, and, it is my opinion that its continuance as a salient political issue has a lot to do with rich, white Democrats (usually from New England). To put it bluntly, most people don't give a flying fuck about skin color (except in cases of miscegenation, or inter-racial relations, which is something that I couldn't give an explanation for). Perpetuating the myth that racism is still significant in America is to ignore what is really keeping a significant portion of minorities down: a lack of money.

 

[Big Sexy]

To put it bluntly, most people don't give a flying fuck about skin color

People who usually have this view have it because they haven't been around many minorities. If you live around or are friends with black people, or any other race for that matter, you'd see that racism still exists.

Perpetuating the myth that racism is still significant in America is to ignore what is really keeping a significant portion of minorities down: a lack of money.

And they have this lack of money because racism in the work place and many other places still exists.

 

[Shocky]

There is a terrific (and rather heated) debate going on in the WWE section on whether or not the WWE's push of black wrestlers has come to an end. And in the course of that discussion, one statement has come up that I have heard a few times already in a few different places.

"Slavery is over."

"Get over it, slavery ended over 100 years ago."

"I don't know a black slave."

"I don't know a white slave owner."

Now while the fact that the legal definition of slavery has been outlawed for a great deal of time as a result of The Emancipation Proclamation, racism has existed in many forms since this most egregious, pre-Civil War time.

To say that the majority - white males - owe nothing to minorities because slavery and segregation is over is to ignore some glaring statistics. Bear in mind, I work in Human Resources for a living, so these stats are very important in my line of work.

Take this example. Let's say a White Male worked a job for $50,000 per year in the United States of America. Listed below are the average wages that each different demographic was being paid:

Black Male = $36,050

Hispanic Male = $28,750

White Female = $36,750

Black Female = $31,800

Hispanic Female = $25.850

This is based off of the median annual earnings for each demographic, from statistics put together by the US Department of Labor.

It's no secret that white males and paid more than females, blacks, and hispanics, and that minority females are especially handicapped. Now, seeing these numbers, how much do you feel racism has truly dissipated? And do you honestly feel racism is over simply because slavery and segregation have ended?

Mr. Human Resources, meet Mr. Cultural Anthropologist. I've been trained by my teachers and professor at college about being the most rationale when trying to look at a situation. When I look at that, I see numbers, that look damning, but when you look into the numbers even further, you find the truth, or a version of the truth.

I'll go in one direction with this, post High School Education. It is a pretty well known fact that those that complete higher education, and have a college degree will make more money then those that don't have one. From what I've read, if you have a college degree, you are more then likely going to make twice as much as a person without that degree. A figure has been out there saying that you are likely to make a million dollars more in your life time with that degree.

I can't find any figures to back it up, but I would wager to say that Caucasian Males and Females take up more class room space in Universities then Hispanics or African Americans. What the wages chart didn't have was that of Asian American or Indian Americans. Asian Americans are amongst the highest paid in the country, and Indian Americans are big time small business owners.

The simple truth, in my opinion, you get what you put in. White males make more, because in general, White Males work harder their whole leaves to earn what they make. Sure there are individuals, but in general, that's how it works.

Their might be racist still, but the culture of Racism is gone. It's an archaic mindest, and most people simply go to the race card because they know white people can't fight it. It's a culture war in America, not a racist war. The culture of gang banging, drug pushing, and single parent households is what has effected African Americans and their image, not their skin color. A culture of pointing the finger and not taking self responsibility is a bigger issue.

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

People who usually have this view have it because they haven't been around many minorities. If you live around or are friends with black people, or any other race for that matter, you'd see that racism still exists.

I live in a lower-middle class neighborhood where whites are a minority. Furthermore, I live in a state whose minority populations are above the national state averages. And, I hardly see any instances of racism.

Of course, this is anecdotal evidence and, if you were smart, you would take it with a grain of salt, as I would if I were in your position. But, besides watching fictitious films like Crash, what evidence do you have that racism still exists? Because, I can tell you right now, falsely assuming that I don't know any minorities (I should also note that I am one myself) is a pretty lame reason for thinking that my belief that racism doesn't exist is wrong.

And they have this lack of money because racism in the work place and many other places still exists.

All right, show me proof that a white person and a black person with the same job and with similar tenure have a significant discrepancy in their pay. Showing me this would lend credence to your claim. However, I am going to make the admittedly bold assumption that you based your claim on the fact that you see a disproportionate amount of minorities in blue-collar jobs while you see a disproportionate amount of caucasians in white-collar jobs.

But, you see, it does not follow from this that racism exists. If racism existed, then it would mean that some minority is currently working a mop simply because someone did not approve of their skin color. But, no, they are working a mop because of their lack of education.

 

[Big Sexy]

But, besides watching fictitious films like Crash, what evidence do you have that racism still exists?

Because a lot of my friends are black and I see them discriminated against on a daily basis. Maybe it's because I live just outside of Detroit so people are more afraid of black people and they think that all of them are in a gang, but racism is still happening. I realize a lot of people aren't racist, but there are still too many people who are.

But, no, they are working a mop because of their lack of education.

And there lack of education can be linked to racism. Once again living near Detroit I can tell you that the school systems their are horrible and it's not easy to get an education. Minorities don't want to be broke, they don't want to have a lack of education, and they don't want to live with drugs and violence in their neighborhoods, but society right now has them set up to fail.

 

[Shocky]

Because a lot of my friends are black and I see them discriminated against on a daily basis. Maybe it's because I live just outside of Detroit so people are more afraid of black people and they think that all of them are in a gang, but racism is still happening. I realize a lot of people aren't racist, but there are still too many people who are.
.

That's not racism. Image is perception. Chances are, if you dress like a gangster, most people will think you're a gangster, cops included. It's no difference then cops harassing surfer kids in California, or kids that dress up like skaters, or kids that sport a pink Floyd T-Shirt. Chances are, if you come across with that as your image of CHOICE, then you need to accept consequences for that. Cops "pick on" black kids that dress like rappers, white kids that act like stoners, or classic rockers, because fro the most part, they're probably par-taking in something they shouldn't be partaking in.

And there lack of education can be linked to racism. Once again living near Detroit I can tell you that the school systems their are horrible and it's not easy to get an education. Minorities don't want to be broke, they don't want to have a lack of education, and they don't want to live with drugs and violence in their neighborhoods, but society right now has them set up to fail.

Lack of Education can be attributed to self stupidity, and nothign more. It's the parents that abandon their children and allow them to be raised by their grandparents that are to blame. It's the kid that decides that school is boring and drops out with 1 year left that is to blame, not society. The schools are their, laws are in place for a reason to make kids finish school. It's the tax payer that would rather pay for a 600 million dollar stadium instead of a 2 million dollar school levy that is too blame. Its corrupt politicians that horde money taht are to blame, not the system. The system is fine, if not too leniant with minorities.

Minorites don't want to work, but you're going to have a hard time telling me that people don't abuse the welfare system. People can't be broke and cry poor, but then not do anything about it. You can't complain about the sytsem and sit their on the first of the month waiting with your hand out. People don't want to live with drugs and crime in their neighborhood, yet more often then not, you'll see neighborhoods filled with an anti-establishment perception. A mistrust of governement is predominate in society, yet this is the governement that provides foodstamps, section 8 housing and other various services that these people use. Again, you can't have it both ways.

Society has done everything in it's power to bring the poor up. You can't change thigns when the people on a whole don't want change. The bottomline, you dress like a stereotype, then prepare to be treated as a sterotype.

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

And there lack of education can be linked to racism. Once again living near Detroit I can tell you that the school systems their are horrible and it's not easy to get an education. Minorities don't want to be broke, they don't want to have a lack of education, and they don't want to live with drugs and violence in their neighborhoods, but society right now has them set up to fail.

I hear where you are coming from, and I admit to not fully accounting for racism possibly being a factor in a minority's lack of education in my previous post. But, let's think about this.

Theoretically, racism could account for the impoverishment of minorities in one of two ways: a) by denying minorities educational opportunities; or b) by denying minorities desirable employment even with the requisite education.

I think we can safely rule out "b" simply for the fact that a minority, when they have the requisite education, proves to be just as viable a job candidate as a caucasian with a similar educational background.

As for "a," in order for this to be plausible, we would have to rule out any other explanation for the lack of educational opportunity minorities face. But, when we look at such predominantly white regions as the Ozarks, western Pennsylvania, and West Virginia, we find that a lack of educational opportunity exists in these places too that can in no way be accounted for by racism. Furthermore, we find that these areas, like areas with a predominance of minorities, have a poor tax base and/or educational budgets that are nowhere near where they should be. Thus, it seems to me that race merely correlates with impoverishment, which is the true cause of the lack of educational opportunities said minorities (and some caucasians) face.

On a final note, there is one way that you would be able to argue that racism is a cause of African Americans' lack of education and impoverishment, and that would be to say that African-Americans have never been able to recover from slavery and the oppression they faced as free people prior to the Civil Rights Movement of the 1960s. But, this is a discussion for another time.

 

[Azrael Cain]

This (and the argument over in the WWE forum) is a rather biased and slanted topic in a way because it all depends on the notion of race and what we understand race to be. To the best of my understanding, three "types" of people exist: Negroid, Mongoloid and Caucasian. These aren't races as much as types (as I quoted pathetically), and their differences are only limited to all things physcal: height, size, slant of eyes and pigmentation (etc, if need be). Underneath that skin, whether it has color in it or not, the muscles, tendons, bones, nerves -- that's all the same. As I understand it, race is more of a social context than anything... but it is a context that has found its way all around the world these days, much thanks to the westernization of the rest of the world. A compelling argument, at least in theme, I believe was made by James Baldwin years ago: "Norwegians in Norway did not consider themselves as "white," they considered themselves Norwegians. The Germans, the French, the Russians -- all non-white. One does not become "white" until one comes to America and is coerced into this way of thinking." Mind you, I am paraphrasing. Just keep that idea of race in mind...

...because slavery existed long before Anglo-Saxon "whites" enforced it onto Africans. Prisoners of war, most usually, and indentured servants were the most common types of slaves. In ancient Greece and Rome, I believe, distinction between skin color was not made. Slaves were branded to let ordinary civilians know they were indeed slaves. But where they hailed from mattered not. A slave could even earn his freedom and eventually become "Joe Citizen." Slavery existed for years before it was turned into what it was turned into in the Americas. When one got to America, one was either black or white, and for a long time nothing else existed. White came to mean American, in a way.

Any form of slavery is about power, about control, about dehumanizing a person, turning him/her into a thing. Nothing material can take away such damage! Granted, an apology, even the most heart-felt one, also cannot take away the damage... the best thing for all parties involved, white, black, whatever, is to forgive and forget. Physical slavery is over. We are all of us now slaves to entierly different things: consumerism, mediocrity... the list goes on, I am sure, I am too tired to rattle my mind for other things we're slaves to without risking someone challenging me (though feel free).

I think the appearance of the quote "Slavery is over, just drop it" is present, but that is not the argument I am trying to make. Essentially, what I am arguing for is the ability to look at the past and learn from it. To look at the 300 years in American History and say "Fuck, that was awful. Let me do everything in my power to make sure that never happens again to anyone, no matter their color." People need to come together and focus on more important things, because the past is the past; it shapes who we are now as people and as a nation and as a society, but dwelling on it hinders progress -- and for the people directly involved that is especially true. The true solution is inside.

And just on the note of slavery in America it is generations removed and all people are doing now are making excuses and holding grudges. And that never ends well for anyone...