Should Jim Duggan Have Gone Over?

[The Crock]

"Hacksaw" Jim Duggan​

In July of 1988 Jim Duggan received a shot at the Intercontinental Championship against the Honky Tonk Man. Honky Tonk Man got himself disqualified and retained the belt, screwing Duggan from what many fans wanted to see him have. Later, on May 27th, 1989, Duggan got a shot at the Intercontinental Championship against "Ravishing" Rick Rude, but he won the match by countout, thus not getting the belt. Duggan never ended up winning that belt or any other belt in the WWF. He was a solid midcarder, but never anything very special. He had his great moments, and had a lot of fans during his run, and received a cult following of sorts after he left, which still supports him to this day. Duggan is, in fact, a WWE legend and a Hall of Famer, but could he have been bigger? Could he have done more? Should he have gone over Honky Tonk Man and used that to propel himself to the main event, if possible?

I say, why not... against Honky Tonk that is. He was the first Royal Rumble winner, had recently had a feud of sorts with Andre the Giant, if booked correctly he could have been a very credible Intercontinental Champion. While Honky Tonk retaining gave him excellent heat, maybe they could have had another match in which Duggan overcame that and won the title. That way, the fans would be behind him as the "underdog" and the win would have been a big prize. He shouldn't have gone over Rude though, no way. Rude was an up and coming star, he could have been huge, and while Duggan would have been a good champion, Rude was a far better choice.

Honky Tonk and Rude were two far different champions. Honky Tonk could have put Duggan over, but in making Duggan the champion over Rude, it would have stunted his growth as a star. You'd have to believe that Rude had more potential, so there's just no way that he could drop the belt to Duggan. You can't "destroy" a star to make a star. While Rude could have recovered, it would have taken some credibility away, in my eyes. Rude was above it, at that point.

 

[The Brain]

Duggan always struck me as a guy who didn’t need or even want a title. His character was perfectly content just being a wrestler in the WWF and beating people up. If Iron Sheik, Nikolai Volkoff, or Dino Bravo was badmouthing the USA Duggan was going to shut them up. If Andre The Giant was throwing his weight around Duggan was going to be the one to stand up to him. He just seemed happy to cater to the fans and get in a good fight. I think the character of Duggan would rather get into a double disqualification grudge match brawl than win a title and defend it against good mat wrestlers.

 

[The Crock]

Duggan always struck me as a guy who didn’t need or even want a title. His character was perfectly content just being a wrestler in the WWF and beating people up. If Iron Sheik, Nikolai Volkoff, or Dino Bravo was badmouthing the USA Duggan was going to shut them up. If Andre The Giant was throwing his weight around Duggan was going to be the one to stand up to him. He just seemed happy to cater to the fans and get in a good fight. I think the character of Duggan would rather get into a double disqualification grudge match brawl than win a title and defend it against good mat wrestlers.

I can totally see what you're saying. Duggan really was the man of the people and he defended his country, but I'm sure the title could have been tied into that. At some point, with all that popularity, it only seems logical that he would have a run with the belt. He wouldn't necessarily have to have good matches with mat wrestlers either. Let them go all over him, then have Duggan mount a brawling comeback. I've seen him do it before, so there's no reason that it couldn't have happened with a title in the mix.

I mean, while it wouldn't fit him to have him chase the title blindly, he could take it by wanting revenge on Honky Tonk. It wouldn't have to be a double DQ brawl. There was quite a few ways they could have gone about Duggan and maybe getting an IC Title reign.

 

[The Brain]

I just don’t think Duggan fit the mold of what an IC champion was supposed to be in the 80s and early 90s. That title usually went to a more skilled technician than a brawler. It’s probably because Hulk Hogan was usually defending the world title in more of a brawling style. Duggan and Hogan had similar styles. Since the world title matches were usually brawls the IC matches needed to have a different style to balance the scale. Guys like Tito Santana, Ricky Steamboat, Rick Rude, Mr. Perfect, and Bret Hart were the ideal IC champs back then. The Ultimate Warrior was an exception and he was picked to end the long reign of the hated Honky Tonk Man to get instantly over with the fans as the next big superstar. I see what you’re saying with Duggan. I just think there were too many better contenders ahead of him. Honky feuded with Steamboat, Savage, and Beefcake. All were higher up the card than Duggan at the time. As we all know titles were harder to come by back then. Ted Dibiase and Jake Roberts never had a singles title reign and they were way higher up than Duggan. Duggan was a popular figure and did a good job with his role, but he just wasn’t championship material in that era. That’s not an insult by any means. Guys didn’t need titles as much to get over back then.

 

[The Crock]

I just don’t think Duggan fit the mold of what an IC champion was supposed to be in the 80s and early 90s. That title usually went to a more skilled technician than a brawler. It’s probably because Hulk Hogan was usually defending the world title in more of a brawling style. Duggan and Hogan had similar styles. Since the world title matches were usually brawls the IC matches needed to have a different style to balance the scale. Guys like Tito Santana, Ricky Steamboat, Rick Rude, Mr. Perfect, and Bret Hart were the ideal IC champs back then. The Ultimate Warrior was an exception and he was picked to end the long reign of the hated Honky Tonk Man to get instantly over with the fans as the next big superstar. I see what you’re saying with Duggan. I just think there were too many better contenders ahead of him. Honky feuded with Steamboat, Savage, and Beefcake. All were higher up the card than Duggan at the time. As we all know titles were harder to come by back then. Ted Dibiase and Jake Roberts never had a singles title reign and they were way higher up than Duggan. Duggan was a popular figure and did a good job with his role, but he just wasn’t championship material in that era. That’s not an insult by any means. Guys didn’t need titles as much to get over back then.

I can't dispute that, the IC Title, up until the 90s really, was the wrestler's title. You could always count on the IC Title providing for some of the best wrestling on the card. That being said, the mold could have been broken for a short Duggan title reign. Yes, he was lower than Steamboat, Savage, and Beefcake, but you could easily say that his reactions were really close if not better than theirs. People adored Duggan.

By the same token though, I can see your point too. He was popular enough to sustain that without ever having to get the title. I know that title reigns were more of a privilege back then, so Duggan shouldn't be looked down at for never getting one. Again though, if a guy like Warrior could have gotten it, Duggan could have too. The only problem with that train of thought is that, like you said, the belt made Warrior a star really, there's no guarantee that it would have made Duggan any more of a star.

All I'm saying is that he could have gotten it. Royal Rumble winner, King of the WWF, he had the credentials. If the only problem was that it didn't fit stylistically, he could have gotten the strap when Savage was WWF Champion, because then the wrestling would be shifted to that belt and a brawler, such as Duggan, could take the IC Title and do his thing with it. Either way, title or no title, I can see it both ways.

 

[wrestling89]

The Brain pretty much answers the question.

Duggan was very popular, hell he still is over today. He was pretty much a guy that everyone could get behind because of his gimmick and style. The problem for him was, he pretty much had the exact same gimmick as Hogan. Patriot, brawler, took care of the biggest enemies, a big fan favorite. It was just that Hogan had his gimmick on another level. Duggan was like the mid-card Hogan of the late 80's.

One of the best moments in the WWF he had was when he got IRS by the neck tie and started pummeling him. He and William Regal would have had a spectacular run in the WWF had they been there at the same time. A snotty Brit and a loudmouth Yank.

Like The Brain said, he didn't need a title to get over. A title run woul dhave been good to see, but he had the "King" title, and that was sufficient. That corrination he had in 89 was damn entertaining!

 

[The Brain]

I can't dispute that, the IC Title, up until the 90s really, was the wrestler's title. You could always count on the IC Title providing for some of the best wrestling on the card. That being said, the mold could have been broken for a short Duggan title reign. Yes, he was lower than Steamboat, Savage, and Beefcake, but you could easily say that his reactions were really close if not better than theirs. People adored Duggan.

By the same token though, I can see your point too. He was popular enough to sustain that without ever having to get the title. I know that title reigns were more of a privilege back then, so Duggan shouldn't be looked down at for never getting one. Again though, if a guy like Warrior could have gotten it, Duggan could have too. The only problem with that train of thought is that, like you said, the belt made Warrior a star really, there's no guarantee that it would have made Duggan any more of a star.

All I'm saying is that he could have gotten it. Royal Rumble winner, King of the WWF, he had the credentials. If the only problem was that it didn't fit stylistically, he could have gotten the strap when Savage was WWF Champion, because then the wrestling would be shifted to that belt and a brawler, such as Duggan, could take the IC Title and do his thing with it. Either way, title or no title, I can see it both ways.

I see we understand each other’s points, but I have one more to make. As you mentioned Duggan won the Royal Rumble in 1988 and became King in 1989. He also feuded with Andre The Giant and actually knocked him out. These things may not look as impressive on a resume as an IC title reign, but they were pretty significant achievements. Seeing as how title reigns lasted longer back then you could view Duggan’s other accomplishments as a substitute for a title reign. If the title changed every two months back then like it does now Duggan surely would have had a reign. Since that didn’t happen, more thought and effort was put into non title mid card feuds and Duggan did pretty well with his.

 

[akrassikauda]

Good points all. I always thought the reason why Duggan was never given a title was that him and the Iron Sheik were busted with a pound of Mary Jane. The All American hero and the loudmouth from Iran in the same car and weed is involved in the uptight 80's. Then it hit me where was he going, sure in certain cities he got bigger reactions than Hogan he was the poor mans Hogan. The blue collar guy from a blue collar town who had charisma and loved a good fight. Guys like Duggan make me appreciate the brand extension more today and wonder if he had a Smackdown to go to and 12 PPV's a year would his HOF credentials be even better. Hoooooooooo!

 

[Big Sexy]

Duggan was extremely over but that's about it. He wasn't great at anything. The IC championship at that point in WWE history was used to either make guys seem credible so they could draw more cheers or heat, or it was used to try and push them into the upper echelon of the company. Duggan was already over and was never going to be a top guy so it made no sense to give him the title. You can put him in the same boat as a guy like JYD. Like Duggan he was extremely over and didn't need the belt for any particular reason. HTM needed the belt to make him a major heel. Without the belt he was no where near the level he was with it.

 

[Theo Mays]

Would I have put Duggan over? Of course, but that is the mark in me speaking. I adore Duggan. As a child his character was great and you just couldn't help but get behind him. He was insanely over (being patriotic will do that for ya), but like many had said that is pretty much it. The IC title was the belt for the best action. Whoever had that strap could usually go in the ring better than the top guys (minus Ultimate Warrior of course). Despite the fact Duggan never won a title, he accomplished a lot and I see that as the reason for never putting the strap on him. He was the king and won the Royal Rumble. I'd say those accolades alone are enough for Hacksaw.

 

[Brahma Bull]

I agree with the brain. Duggan is like how tommy dreamer wanted to be. Dreamer never wanted to win the title in ecw, but he was the heart and sould of ecw. duggan is kind of the same thing. he never needed the title, that wasnt who he was. he was kind of like santino in that he filled a different role than champion. if hbk could still be the main event and mr wrestlemania without winning the title for his last few years, duggan can still be a legend without needing a title.

 

[Azane]

If Jim Duggan was wrestling in today's product, he'd be a 10 World Champion no sweat.

He didn't need the company to be over, because the fans put him over in their minds.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

I don't think that the WWF wanted to invest in Duggan's character or wanted to make him a huge star. Certainly, there is nothing that Duggan has done in his career that might suggest that he would have been a star. Duggan did one thing well and that was being the patriotic American. He was over but there is nothing to suggest that he would have been more over and become World Champion one day. Particularily when the World Champion at that point was a much more improved and charismatic version of Duggan.

The IC title at that point was used to make stars. That is what happened when Warrior won the title off the Honky Tonky Man who was seen as a cowardly heel champion. Warrior's debut would not have been as impactful if he had won the title off Duggan than off Honky Tonky Man.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

There were a lot of guys in that era who could have taken that role, Big Bossman, Jake Roberts, Bad News Brown... All would have made better IC champs than Jim Duggan.

Duggan's problem was that he was misused, in the UWF he was a bad ass heel, in WWE a buffoonish face... He was one of those guys who would never have suited a belt, he had a prop, his 2 by 4 and sometimes a flag... he didn't need a belt too...

 

[GameOver]

Duggan always struck me as a guy who didn’t need or even want a title. His character was perfectly content just being a wrestler in the WWF and beating people up. If Iron Sheik, Nikolai Volkoff, or Dino Bravo was badmouthing the USA Duggan was going to shut them up. If Andre The Giant was throwing his weight around Duggan was going to be the one to stand up to him. He just seemed happy to cater to the fans and get in a good fight. I think the character of Duggan would rather get into a double disqualification grudge match brawl than win a title and defend it against good mat wrestlers.

Agreed. for one thing he was useless in the ring and looked like a goof, BUT
he was a great attraction as far as he was a mega patriot like Hulk Hogan. Probably the second most Partiotic person in WWF history

As a non American though i just loved his catch phrase, and he had some comedy, the rest of his character was meh!!!.

He did get US Title gold in WCW and was the first Royal Rumble winner.
No way he shoulda held a title with the level of talent that was in WWF at the time he was at his peak.

 

[SouthsideSam]

This question is very easy to answer. Their was a column on this site yesterday by Mike Killam about how if you are a money making machine for Vince nothing can stop you. Hacksaw was a major money maker as I went to a lot of live WWE events during his days and every kid there wanted a foam 2x4. So was he very over yes.

However in 1987 him and iron Sheik were stopped by police as i hope most of you no. Duggan was under the influence of marijuana and alcohol while Sheik was high on cocaine. More embarrassing to the kid friendly WWE that 2 of their top stars were found high or under the influence during the height of the just say no campaign was the fact that this ruined kayfabe forever. Sheik was even released over the incident. Duggan was held onto however because he made money but I do not imagine their was anyway after this happened that Vince was ever going to put a strap on him.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

I'm pretty much with Brain on this one. I don't really think that Duggan needed or really even wanted a title. Duggan was already quite over with the WWF audience back in the day. Duggan had the whole blue collar, hardcore American patriot thing going on and, aside from the goofy facial expressions he'd adopt sometimes, that was what Duggan was. It felt authentic and people responded to it.

If Jim Duggan was a 25 year old guy in his physical prime in either WWE or TNA and used the exact same character, he'd get over every bit as much with modern fans as he did 25 years ago. Sure such a character seems corny as hell in today's more pesimistic society, but he'd still get over. However, I think that Duggan would probably have to have a few title runs to seem even remotely relevant. If Duggan was in his prime and in WWE, I think he'd be a great United States Champion. Duggan loves his country and he'd have absolutely no problem putting over the importance of the strap and how much it means to him to be the United States Champion.

 

[hbkmark]

Duggan is the ultimate example that there are just times when fans decide they like someone and whether it makes sense or not he becomes a star. He had the only closing move (seriously, a clothesline?) that was lamer than Hogan's legdrop but the "USA" chant hit at exactly the right time in the country. The biggest thing seemed to be that he seemed to really have a great time out there. For me, Duggan matches were kind of like when the heavy metal band sang their obligatory ballad (time to go get a beer) he was over and therefore deserved anything he got.

 

[jbwphoto1]

SouthsideSam and akrassikauda gave the answer I was thinking. Busted with the most un-American character getting wasted in a car. It was an illegal and with the kid friendly WWF at the time, immoral thing to be doing.

Even years later, Rob Van Dam found out that VKM takes public opinion very seriously regarding alcohol and other drugs. For just a few days, Rob held two of the three WWE championships and all was gone with the next two tv tapings.

 

[Hollywood Naitch]

I just don’t think Duggan fit the mold of what an IC champion was supposed to be in the 80s and early 90s. That title usually went to a more skilled technician than a brawler.

Guys like Tito Santana, Ricky Steamboat, Rick Rude, Mr. Perfect, and Bret Hart were the ideal IC champs back then. The Ultimate Warrior was an exception and he was picked to end the long reign of the hated Honky Tonk Man to get instantly over with the fans as the next big superstar. I see what you’re saying with Duggan. I just think there were too many better contenders ahead of him.

I think you are exactly right. Duggan was good in his day, but he did not really fit in with the style of wrestler who was carrying the IC title back then. Wrestlers such as Hart, Rude and Perfect were always going to make it as the bigger star, and could put on some amazing matches for the IC title.

As another poster mentioned as well, Duggan did not need the title, he was always over as the USA-defending patriot who would always put up a good fight, but never come away with the title. I don't think the WWE missed an opportunity with him, he did exactly what he should have done

 

[jaceynightheat]

Was Duggan World Champion material? Of course. But back then the titles didn't jump around ( which I think is better ). He like many other guys didn't need to hold either the World or Intercontinental Championship. There were a lot of amazing wrestlers in the 80s/early 90s that didn't get the World Title.

Pretty crazy to think that The British Bulldog, Mr. Perfect, Million Dollar Man, Roddy Piper, Rick Rude were never WWF World Champions. 3 of the 5 are Hall of Famers & the other 2 should be in there.