Second Round: St. Louis - Mitsuharu Misawa vs. The Rock

[klunderbunker]

This is a second round matchup in the St. Louis Subregion. The ring and arena are universal throughout the first round and the organization is not a factor. There is a 20 minute time limit. Vote using any criteria you like. Most votes in the poll at the end of the time period wins. In the case of a tie we will go off of the number of written votes. In the case of a second tie, both are eliminated. Assume one week has passed since the first match.

Location: Scottrade Center, St. Louis, Missouri.

Mitsuhara Misawa

Vs.

The Rock

Voting is open for 4 days.

 

[Hulkamaniac]

Wow, very intriguing match up. From a non-kayfabe perspective, Misawa is obviously the better worker, but the Rock is possibly the most charismatic man in history, and undeniably the best promo guy in history. The Rock is among the biggest draws in history, bigger then Misawa. Kayfabe wise, the Rock goes over, especially in America. the fans go wild for the Rock, and would lift him up to another level. The Rock wins after having to hit two Rock Bottoms.

 

[thrilla11]

I love the Rock. I really do. He's charismatic and great on the mic. Along with Stone Cold, he saved the WWE from WCW. All his promos are classics. The people's eyebrow and the people's elbow are all things that we remember the Rock for.

But The Rock is no Misawa. Here are the reasons as to why you should be voting for Misawa.

Reason One: The Rock doesn't have the credentials.

The Rock
Pro Wrestling Illustrated
PWI Match of the Year (1999) vs. Mankind in an "I Quit" match at Royal Rumble
PWI Match of the Year (2002) vs. Hulk Hogan at WrestleMania X8
PWI Most Popular Wrestler of the Year (1999, 2000)
PWI Wrestler of the Year (2000)
PWI ranked him #2 of the 500 best singles wrestlers of the year in the PWI 500 in 2000

United States Wrestling Association
USWA World Tag Team Championship (2 times) – with Bart Sawyer

World Wrestling Federation / World Wrestling Entertainment
WCW World Heavyweight Championship (2 times)
WWF/E Championship (7 times)
WWF Intercontinental Championship (2 times)
WWF Tag Team Championship (5 times) – with Mankind (3), The Undertaker (1), and Chris Jericho (1)
Royal Rumble (2000)
Slammy Award for New Sensation (1997)
Sixth Triple Crown Champion

Wrestling Observer Newsletter
Best Box Office Draw (2000)
Best Gimmick (1999)
Best on Interviews (1999, 2000)
Most Charismatic (1999–2002)
Most Improved (1998)
Wrestling Observer Newsletter Hall of Fame (Class of 2007)

Mitsuharu Misawa
All Japan Pro Wrestling
AJPW All Asia Tag Team Championship (2 times) – with Kenta Kobashi (1) and Yoshinari Ogawa (1)
AJPW Triple Crown Heavyweight Championship (5 times)
AJPW Unified World Tag Team Championship (6 times) – with Toshiaki Kawada (2), Kenta Kobashi (2), Jun Akiyama (1) and Yoshinari Ogawa (1)
NWA International Junior Heavyweight Championship (1 time)
PWF World Tag Team Championship (1 time) – with Jumbo Tsuruta
Champion's Carnival (1995, 1998)
World's Strongest Tag Team League (1992) – with Toshiaki Kawada
World's Strongest Tag Team League (1993, 1994, 1995) – with Kenta Kobashi

Pro Wrestling Noah
GHC Heavyweight Championship (3 times)
GHC Tag Team Championship (2 times) – with Yoshinari Ogawa
Global Tag League (2009) – with Go Shiozaki

Pro Wrestling Illustrated
PWI ranked him #2 of the 500 best singles wrestlers of the PWI 500 in 1997
PWI ranked him #37 of the 500 best singles wrestlers during the "PWI Years" in 2003.

Wrestling Observer Newsletter awards
5 Star Match (1985) vs. Kuniaki Kobayashi on March 9
5 Star Match (1990) vs. Jumbo Tsuruta on June 8
5 Star Match (1990) with Toshiaki Kawada and Kenta Kobashi vs. Jumbo Tsuruta, Akira Taue and Masanobu Fuchi on October 19
5 Star Match (1991) with Toshiaki Kawada and Kenta Kobashi vs. Jumbo Tsuruta, Akira Taue and Masanobu Fuchi on April 20
5 Star Match (1992) with Kenta Kobashi and Toshiaki Kawada vs. Jumbo Tsuruta, Akira Taue and Masanobu Fuchi on May 22
5 Star Match (1993) with Kenta Kobashi and Jun Akiyama vs. Toshiaki Kawada, Akira Taue and Yoshinari Ogawa on July 2
5 Star Match (1993) with Kenta Kobashi vs. Akira Taue and Toshiaki Kawada on December 3
5 Star Match (1994) with Kenta Kobashi and Giant Baba vs. Masanobu Fuchi, Toshiaki Kawada and Akira Taue on February 13
5 Star Match (1994) with Kenta Kobashi vs. Akira Taue and Toshiaki Kawada on May 21
5 Star Match (1994) vs. Toshiaki Kawada on June 3
5 Star Match (1995) with Kenta Kobashi vs. Akira Taue and Toshiaki Kawada on January 21
5 Star Match (1995) with Kenta Kobashi vs. Steve Williams and Johnny Ace on March 4
5 Star Match (1995) vs. Akira Taue on April 15
5 Star Match (1995) with Kenta Kobashi vs. Akira Taue and Toshiaki Kawada on June 9
5 Star Match (1995) with Kenta Kobashi and Satoru Asako vs. Toshiaki Kawada, Akira Taue and Tamon Honda on June 30
5 Star Match (1996) with Jun Akiyama vs. Toshiaki Kawada and Akira Taue on May 23
5 Star Match (1996) with Jun Akiyama vs. Steve Williams and Johnny Ace on June 7
5 Star Match (1996) with Jun Akiyama vs. Toshiaki Kawada and Akira Taue on December 6
5 Star Match (1997) vs. Toshiaki Kawada on June 6
5 Star Match (1997) with Jun Akiyama vs. Toshiaki Kawada and Akira Taue on December 5
5 Star Match (1998) vs. Kenta Kobashi on October 31
5 Star Match (1999) vs. Kenta Kobashi on June 11
5 Star Match (1999) with Yoshinari Ogawa vs. Kenta Kobashi and Jun Akiyama on October 23
5 Star Match (2003) vs. Kenta Kobashi on March 1
Best Flying Wrestler (1985, 1986)
Best Wrestling Maneuver (1985) Topé con Giro
Feud of the Year (1990, 1991) vs. Jumbo Tsuruta
Match of the Year (1985) vs. Kuniaki Kobayashi on June 12, Tokyo, Japan
Match of the Year (1996) with Jun Akiyama vs. Steve Williams and Johnny Ace on June 7, Tokyo, Japan
Match of the Year (1998) vs. Kenta Kobashi on October 31, Tokyo, Japan
Match of the Year (1999) vs. Kenta Kobashi on June 11, Tokyo, Japan
Match of the Year (2003) vs. Kenta Kobashi on March 1, Tokyo, Japan
Most Outstanding Wrestler (1997, 1999)
Most Underrated Wrestler (1988)
Tag Team of the Year (1991) with Toshiaki Kawada
Tag Team of the Year (1995) with Kenta Kobashi
Tag Team of the Year (1996, 1997) with Jun Akiyama
Wrestler of the Year (1995, 1997, 1999)
Wrestling Observer Newsletter Hall of Fame (Class of 1996)

Reason two: Kayfabe-wise, Misawa would prove too much for Rocky. Misawa has too much experience and he's been through it all. He's beaten the best.

He's beaten Stan Hansen:

On August 22, 1992, Misawa defeated [Stan] Hansen to win the first of what would eventually be five AJPW Triple Crown Heavyweight Championships.

[YOUTUBE]<object width="500" height="405"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/4-lQAvNRKVE&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0&border=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/4-lQAvNRKVE&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0&border=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="500" height="405"></embed></object>[/YOUTUBE]

He's beaten Kenta Kobashi:
[YOUTUBE]<object width="500" height="405"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/z0MhBOQTJ8w&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0&border=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/z0MhBOQTJ8w&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0&border=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="500" height="405"></embed></object>[/YOUTUBE]

Do you really think that the Rock could beat either of these two legends? I'm pretty damn sure that the Lariat and Mr. Eko will be able to tell you otherwise. Kayfabe wise, The Rock doesn't have a chance against Misawa.

Reason Three: Misawa is a legend in the business. The Rock is not a legend. The Rock didn't do enough in his career to have his name in the same sentence as Misawa. The Rock left the business when he could have done so much more while Misawa literally left his life in the wrestling ring.

On June 13, 2009, Misawa teamed with Go Shiozaki against GHC tag team champions Akitoshi Saito and Bison Smith at Hiroshima Green Arena in a title match. After taking a belly to back suplex from Saito, Misawa lost consciousness and was taken to a hospital. He was pronounced dead in the hospital at 10:10 p.m. JST. The cause of death was later speculated on in the official police report to have been a likely cervical spinal cord injury which caused cardiac arrest.

The only reason people would vote for the Rock is because he was in the Attitude Era, which is the era that many of the posters on this forum have grown up to. But if you all do some research, you'll see that the Rock can't hold a candle to the legend that is Mitsuharu Misawa. Vote for the true "Great One".

VOTE MITSUHARU MISAWA

 

[Mr. Truth]

This is yet another match of people being ignorant as to who the person from Japan is. Mitsuharu Misawa was a wrestling god. He should make everyone's top 10 greatest wrestlers ever list. Thrilla was so kind to post his accomplishments so I won't do that. But, just look at them. Misawa can easily outwrestle The Rock. Just look at any Misawa match. Any. Youtube any match, and you'll know. The Rock is a better entertainer, I'll give him that, but this isn't a "who is the better actor/entertainer" tournament, it's a wrestling tournament.

 

[Steamboat Ricky]

Ok. I'm not voting yet...but let's make one thing clear:


If this is a "wrestling" tournament, then the winner is Dean Malenko...hands down. So, voting for Misawa because he's actually a talented wrestler over Rocky is stupid, because I know you will deny that anyone should vote for Malenko.

 

[jmt225]

Hmm... who to vote for? Someone who gave his entire life to the business, or someone who left the business for an acting career?

Come on, people. I love The Rock as much as the next person, and I'm not one of those who believes he "sold out" or any of that nonsense. But facts are facts, and the fact is, in a pro wrestling tournament, The Rock does not deserve to beat a true legend in the sport and someone who gave his entire life to it. Even The Rock himself would tell you that I'm sure.

Plus, kayfabe wise... how many great wins does The Rock really have? Not many. He jobbed more than any other top draw throughout the history of the business, and he would undoubtedly job here to Misawa, because in the ring he's nowhere near Misawa's level.

Do the right thing and vote for someone who gave their life to the sport and gave us well over 2 decades of great matches, plus the guy who would UNDOUBTEDLY win a kayfabe match between these two. It's the right thing to do. Vote Misawa.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

This should be Misawa in a landslide. Misawa was known as a wrestling legend in Japan because he could fight and fight, no matter the circumstances. The man died in the ring for heaven's sake. The Rock on the other hand, left wrestling to make Disney movies. Now, like what JMT said, I'm not discounting or judging the People's Champion for doing that. But the fact of the matter is that Rocky doesn't have the big match experience that Misawa has. The Five Star matches for Misawa are through the roof. The Rock is a helluva athlete, but in the grand scheme of things, won't be remembered for being a dynamic wrestler. He'll be known as the wrestler who became an actor.

Misawa's legacy is set in stone. He died for what he loved to do and that alone should give him a win over nearly anyone except for Owen Hart in this tourney. Misawa wins this in a hard fought battle.

 

[Hulkamaniac]

I get tired of hearing "5 Star Matches ZOMG!!!111". These are matches that are given out based on ONE man's opinion who has shown and even admitted that he prefers the puro style of wrestling. So of course almost every major Japanese wrestler has higher rated matches. It's not a firm basis for who's a better wrestler argument, it's evidence for a "Who Dave Meltzer likes more?" I'm not as blindly enamored with puro, so I wouldn't be handing out nearly as many "5 star matches" to Japanese wrestling. The vast majority of Japanese wrestlers don't bring nearly enough emotion to their wrestling, IMO, and it feels like a soulless athletic endeavor. If I wanted to watch a competition, I'd watch a real, non-choreographed sport. The Rock brought more emotion to his matches, and in the kayfabe sense, he won quite often. Vote Rocky.

 

[Mr. Truth]

The vast majority of Japanese wrestlers don't bring nearly enough emotion to their wrestling, IMO, and it feels like a soulless athletic endeavor.

Have you watched a match with Misawa before? Just watch the entire match of Misawa v. Kobashi that was linked earlier . You'll find that there's plenty of emotion in there. Since you've got the ending, I'll give you the link to the start of the match, and you can click to the next video on your own, instead of me posting them here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKCXYJyGDuw&feature=related

 

[Hulkamaniac]

Have you watched a match with Misawa before? Just watch the entire match of Misawa v. Kobashi that was linked earlier . You'll find that there's plenty of emotion in there. Since you've got the ending, I'll give you the link to the start of the match, and you can click to the next video on your own, instead of me posting them here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKCXYJyGDuw&feature=related

I've seen the match before, I've watched a lot of puro, and I like both guys in that match to one extent or the other, but that match was the same thing to me. I didn't feel anything, I didn't get any emotion.

Further, the Rock was ranked over Misawa in the book, edited by Meltzer, ranking the Top 100 Wrestlers of All-Time, and that's coming from the guy who awarded Misawa all those 5 Star Matches.

 

[Mr. Truth]

I've seen the match before, I've watched a lot of puro, and I like both guys in that match to one extent or the other, but that match was the same thing to me. I didn't feel anything, I didn't get any emotion.

How did you not get personally involved with that match? If that couldn't get you involved, then give me an example of what it takes to get you emotionally into a match.

Further, the Rock was ranked over Misawa in the book, edited by Meltzer, ranking the Top 100 Wrestlers of All-Time, and that's coming from the guy who awarded Misawa all those 5 Star Matches.

Wrestling Observer Newsletter awarded Misawa wrestler of the year 3 times. The Rock won that award 0 times. Also, where is this 100 greatest wrestlers listed? I'm not doubting its existence, I just want to see his top 100.

 

[Hulkamaniac]

How did you not get personally involved with that match? If that couldn't get you involved, then give me an example of what it takes to get you emotionally into a match.


Wrestling Observer Newsletter awarded Misawa wrestler of the year 3 times. The Rock won that award 0 times. Also, where is this 100 greatest wrestlers listed? I'm not doubting its existence, I just want to see his top 100.

It is a book.

http://www.amazon.com/Top-100-Pro-Wrestlers-Time/dp/1553663055

Misawa was ranked 20th, Rock was ranked 16th.

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

I get tired of hearing "5 Star Matches ZOMG!!!111". These are matches that are given out based on ONE man's opinion who has shown and even admitted that he prefers the puro style of wrestling. So of course almost every major Japanese wrestler has higher rated matches. It's not a firm basis for who's a better wrestler argument, it's evidence for a "Who Dave Meltzer likes more?" I'm not as blindly enamored with puro, so I wouldn't be handing out nearly as many "5 star matches" to Japanese wrestling. The vast majority of Japanese wrestlers don't bring nearly enough emotion to their wrestling, IMO, and it feels like a soulless athletic endeavor. If I wanted to watch a competition, I'd watch a real, non-choreographed sport. The Rock brought more emotion to his matches, and in the kayfabe sense, he won quite often. Vote Rocky.

This is complete and utter bullshit. The Rock was without a doubt the bigger draw, but to argue that he brought more emotion to his matches than Misawa is laughable. The Rock entertained you with his words and in-ring shenanigans, while Misawa made you grab your head and wonder how he could endure such punishment and execute his moves so gracefully under the most grueling and stiff conditions. Simply put, Misawa had 100 times the heart and fighting spirit The Rock ever had or ever will have. While The Rock was the better entertainer, Misawa was the better professional wrestler.

Oh, and that book you're talking about, it was only edited by Dave Meltzer; it was written (rather poorly, I might add) by some guy named John Molinaro. And, if memory serves me correct, Hulk Hogan's not even number one on the guy's list. So, yeah, this list is more dubious than a Presidential Ranking list that doesn't put George Washington on top.

 

[thrilla11]

I've seen the match before, I've watched a lot of puro, and I like both guys in that match to one extent or the other, but that match was the same thing to me. I didn't feel anything, I didn't get any emotion.

How did you not feel any emotion Hulk? Those guys put their heart and soul into that match and left it all in the ring. I don't get it. What was an emotional match in your opinion? Chris Benoit finally winning the championship at Wrestlemania? Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels 2? Kobashi vs Misawa had the same if not more emotion than those matches and most "great" matches in recent memory.

 

[Mr. Truth]

It is a book.

http://www.amazon.com/Top-100-Pro-Wrestlers-Time/dp/1553663055

Misawa was ranked 20th, Rock was ranked 16th.

Editing the book doesn't mean he wrote it, it just means he helped dot the I's and cross the T's. Maybe this book was about the top 100 Wrestling Entertainers, since, as I stated earlier, The Rock was great on the mic. Maybe he factored that and the ability to draw more then the ability to put on a good match. Misawa put on many better matches then The Rock. Please, post a match that involved The Rock that I get into better then a Misawa match. I challenge you.

 

[Big Sexy]

"You can argue every position endlessly (and they were argued, as this list was not based on one person’s opinion, but was the collaboration of several wrestling experts)."

That is a direct quote from Dave Meltzer about who came up with the list that was put into the book.

# Professional success
# Importance to history
# How good they were in the ring
# Their drawing power
# The mainstream status they achieved.

Meltzer also wrote the foreword for the book and that is the criteria he said the list was based on.

I personally don't really care what Meltzer or any so called "wrestling experts" think but for those who are arguing about it in this thread maybe that will clear some things up.

 

[Hulkamaniac]

Editing the book doesn't mean he wrote it, it just means he helped dot the I's and cross the T's. Maybe this book was about the top 100 Wrestling Entertainers, since, as I stated earlier, The Rock was great on the mic. Maybe he factored that and the ability to draw more then the ability to put on a good match. Misawa put on many better matches then The Rock. Please, post a match that involved The Rock that I get into better then a Misawa match. I challenge you.

The two Rock-Steve Austin matches that headlined Wrestlemanias X-7 and XIX, Rock-Hogan from X-8, Rock-Jericho from Royal Rumble '02 all spring to mind as more exciting and entertaining matches with more emotion then the match you just posted.

 

[Supernova]

Oh please, I'm sick of this shit. No one gives a shit about Misawa or whatever, The Rock (along with contemporaries like Stone Cold) is probably the reason half the members here even like pro-wrestling. And what's this crap about The Rock being kayfabe weak? He's beaten the likes of Hulk Hogan, Stone Cold, HHH, Mick Foley, Benoit, Jericho, Kurt Angle and The Undertaker - to argue that The Rock isn't a legend is so stupid.

Misawa's legacy is set in stone. He died for what he loved to do and that alone should give him a win over nearly anyone except for Owen Hart in this tourney. Misawa wins this in a hard fought battle.

Seriously? This is beyond ******ed. Fair play he died doing what he loved but that doesn't mean he should beat everyone - people need to stop pretending to be smart and vote for the "obvious" winner (i.e. The People's Champion) - he's the obvious winner for a reason.

 

[Mantaur Rodeo Clown]

Oh please, I'm sick of this shit. No one gives a shit about Misawa or whatever

You don't. Many members of this forum do. Along with Japanese pro wrestling fans. Oh, but wait, they weren't part of the Attitude Era, so he must have been shit then.

The Rock (along with contemporaries like Stone Cold) is probably the reason half the members here even like pro-wrestling.

Well obviously. I would wager half of the members grew up during the Attitude Era. Whats your point? If we lived in Tokyo it would be completely different.

And what's this crap about The Rock being kayfabe weak? He's beaten the likes of Hulk Hogan, Stone Cold, HHH, Mick Foley, Benoit, Jericho, Kurt Angle and The Undertaker - to argue that The Rock isn't a legend is so stupid.

He's also lost to those guys. Outside of Hogan. Let's replace that with lost to The Hurricane. Kayfabe Misawa has beaten a host of legends such as Kobashi, Kawada, Tsuruta, Taue. None of which you will have heard of, obviously. But apparently they were kind of good.

Seriously? This is beyond ******ed. Fair play he died doing what he loved but that doesn't mean he should beat everyone - people need to stop pretending to be smart and vote for the "obvious" winner (i.e. The People's Champion) - he's the obvious winner for a reason.

What reason? He worked in the WWF during a successful period from 1997 to 2001, and that somehow means he beats one of the greatest pro wrestlers ever? He's not tougher, he's not stronger, he's not more passionate. Misawa wins.

 

[Supernova]

My point is that if people had had to watch Misawa instead of The Rock when they first tuned into pro-wrestling it wouldn't have been half as popular. And as good as those guys he's beaten may be, they better be the best of all time to outweigh wins against Hogan and Austin (and I suspect they're not better than the two biggest stars the industry has ever produced).

 

[Ferbian]

While The Rock was incredibly over, a decent talent and has accomplished things in the business, being a part of the success of the Attitude Era and has beaten about anybody that was put in front of him (except for Stone Cold) I do not think he influenced the business more then Misawa, I said in the first round that Misawa was a great great wrestler, and had influenced the business a lot (not more than Thesz though, but still)

Misawa is by far the better wrestler, so much better it's not even arguable who should be going over in this match, people, don't vote The Rock cause he's beloved for his mic skills, vote Misawa cause he's incredible in the ring, and has done more for this business than The Rock has, Misawa beat Thesz in the last round, a guy who The Rock wouldn't have gone over neither.

Vote Misawa.

 

[Supernova]

Not really, I don't want a tournament full of old guys. Who cares? This Misawa guy can only go so far with knowledgeable guys pushing him before he runs into someone like John Cena anyway and gets eliminated purely because, when it comes down to it, no one cares. I'd rather a legend like The Rock progress, who can hold his own against other super over, modern wrestlers because that's who's going to be in the latter rounds anyway.

 

[Ferbian]

Not really, I don't want a tournament full of old guys. Who cares? This Misawa guy can only go so far with knowledgeable guys pushing him before he runs into someone like John Cena anyway and gets eliminated purely because, when it comes down to it, no one cares. I'd rather a legend like The Rock progress, who can hold his own against other super over, modern wrestlers because that's who's going to be in the latter rounds anyway.

Not necessarily, Shawn Michaels, Bret Hart and Undertaker have all 3 won the tournament, and you can't argue it's because they are / were still active at that point, because so is Misawa, and Misawa can wrestle circles around The Rock.
The Rock was decent in the ring, but nothing compared to Misawa, and hasn't influenced the business as much as Misawa has, The Rock is nothing compared to Misawa in every thing but Mic skills, which only makes a small part for reason to put him over Misawa, but not enough.

 

[Tastycles]

I'd love to know why some people have voted for The Rock here, but against Lou Thesz in the previous round. Oh, you're more familiar with the Rock's promos? So that's why you oted for someone Japanese in the last round is it, promos? Some people.

Anyway, I'm kind of torn, so I shall go through my thought process here. In terms of in ring entertainment, Misawa takes it, in terms of out of ring entertainment, The Rock takes it. The Rock is less decorated in a culture where it was easier to be decorated, but was unquestionably a bigger draw. Based on the strengths of arguments in this thread, and the lack of hypocrites, I'm going with Misawa.

 

[FunKay the Inevitable]

Honestly, vote Misawa. I voted for The Rock because of tactics. I figured that should Jericho progress towards the finals, he'll eventually meet up with the winner of this match and the fact is, he's beaten Rock tons of times. Misawa is a better wrestler than the Rock. FULL STOP. I love the Rock as much as the next guy but Misawa is better. And if you need convincing, watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ANvKlcT6F4

That is a legendary match right there.