Second Round: St. Louis - Mitsuharu Misawa vs. The Rock

Discussion in 'The Toronto Region' started by klunderbunker, May 2, 2010.

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Who Wins This Matchup?

  1. Mitsuharu Misawa

  2. The Rock

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Mr. Truth

    Mr. Truth Real American Hero

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    Wrestling is more popular in Japan then it is in America. There, it's treated as an actual sport in terms of popularity.
    A well passed his prime Hogan doesn't count. And his feud with Austin was the most important feud during the time so if he didn't get wins over Austin, it wouldn't be much of a feud at all, would it?

    Misawa gave his life to the business. He could wrestle circles around just about anyone. The Rock easily falls into this category.

    Do the right thing, vote Misawa.
     
    #26
  2. 48.7 is Approximately 49 Times Better Than You

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    I could not care less that Mitsuhara Misawa has wrestled X 5-star matches.
    I could not care less that Mitsuhara Misawa dedicated his life to the business.
    I could not care less that Mitsuhara Misawa knows 74 moves.
    I could not care less that Mitsuhara Misawa has won this and that in Japan.

    I could not care less because I could not care less about Mitsuhara Misawa. The fact of the matter is that The Rock was the most captivating and entertaining wrestler who has ever stepped into the ring. No one will come close to having the kind of connection he had with wrestling fans again. Period. His charisma is undeniable. The Rock made everyone stand at attention and chant his name with the simple raise of an eyebrow. He wasn't the best "wrestler", so you say. I say there was no one better. Wrestling isn't about choreographing a complicated series of moves and executing them. Wrestling is stepping through the curtain and putting on a show, entertaining the masses and giving them no reason to regret spending their money to watch you. The Rock did that every single night.

    He got by on catch phrases! He sold out! Whatever. The Rock is the reason that millions... and millions... of us are wrestling fans.
     
    #27
  3. Cena's Little Helper

    Cena's Little Helper Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    Yet this match has nothing to do promos whatsoever. This argument would work if it weren't for two simple facts:

    1) The Rock jobbed...a lot.

    2) Misawa hardly ever lost.

    Unfortunately for you, the regions aren't categorized under specific wrestling companies this year. So, essentially, all we know is that this match is taking place in a particular city and venue. Who is hosting the event? Who knows? If it's not a WWE event, then Misawa wins. If it is a WWE event, then, based off of The Rock's track record, there's about a 50% chance that he's going to lose.
     
    #28
  4. Mr. Truth

    Mr. Truth Real American Hero

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    Misawa did that every single night for many more nights then The Rock did.

    Vote Misawa
     
    #29
  5. 48.7 is Approximately 49 Times Better Than You

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    As if most people are voting in terms of "who would win" as opposed to "impact on the business" this year.

    It's obviously considered jobbing now when you lose to greats such as Steve Austin and Triple H.

    Japan.

    I call BS.

    First, The Rock has an enormous home-field advantage in St. Louis. I'm certain that if Misawa wrestled a match in front of 15,000 in Missou, that 95% wouldn't have any idea who he is.

    Second, what Japanese, Mexican, Croatian, Norwegian, or Saudi Arabian promotions put on shows in.. St. Louis? If it's a small indy promotion such as ROH, or simply a match sponsored by no specific promotion, there isn't a man who isn't insane that would book Misawa over the Rock in America. That'd be an awful business move.

    For a moment, I'll humor you and say it's Japanese. If I'm not mistaken, many American greats such as Lesnar, Hogan, Benoit, and Andre have had a good deal of success in Japan, often going over their top stars. The Rock would be no different.

    Aaaaaand, I'd cut off my left testicle if Misawa ever went of The Rock in WWE.

    None of this really matters, but if you want to talk location, it's not going to help your case what-so-ever.
     
    #30
  6. 48.7 is Approximately 49 Times Better Than You

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    Koko B. Ware has been wrestling since 1979. What's your point? The Rock left in his prime for more money, a lighter schedule and no abuse on his body, among other things. His decision likely saved him from living a life with frequent knee, back and neck issues. You'd be an idiot not to do the same. We, as fans, don't have the right to feel entitled to anything, nor does he owe us anything. The Rock worked 300 days a year, traveling the world to put on a show for us for seven years. The man deserves our respect for that, not resentment.
     
    #31
  7. Mr. Truth

    Mr. Truth Real American Hero

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    I am in no way discounting what The Rock did as an entertainer. I respect him. But there's just no way that Misawa would lose to The Rock on any continent, except in a popularity contest on an American wrestling forum, which is what this competition has essentially become.
     
    #32
  8. Big Sexy

    Big Sexy Deadly Rap Cannibal

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    If the Rock CAN'T beat Misawa then who the fuck can? The Rock is one of the biggest stars in wrestling history. He has defeated some of the biggest names in the business. Misawa has lost before and he has lost to American wrestlers that are not on the Rock's level as an overall professional wrestler. I'm not saying Misawa doesn't stand a chance in the match but I'm sick of seeing posts saying "The Rock has no shot" or "The Rock could never beat Misawa ever" because its a load of crap.
     
    #33
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  9. Cena's Little Helper

    Cena's Little Helper Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    So, "impact on the business" according to you is making a lot of money and being able to make people laugh? Also, what the fuck do you mean this isn't about "who would win?" This is a wrestling match, someone has to win.

    Let's not forget Mick Foley, a Brock Lesnar who had been in WWE for less than six months, and a Goldberg whose debut match saw him punish The Rock.

    As if your opinion on Japan should be taken seriously.

    To people who haven't voted yet: this is the same guy who posted pictures of WWII Japanese-American internment camp photos in The Bar Room and suggested that we do the same thing to all Japanese wrestlers. Clearly, there's no bias here.

    This is in the Toronto region, hombre. I could give a fuck if all sub-regional matches are held in America (I have no clue why all of these matches aren't being held in Canadian cities).

    Harley Race has a promotion called World League Wrestling that heavily promotes appearances by Japanese wrestlers. Furthermore, he is instrumental in getting Japanese wrestlers try-outs in the larger American promotions.

    But, of course, being the bigot that you are, I'm pretty sure you'll discount Harley Race's promotions because a white man owns it and, unlike you, he has an inexplicable case of yellow fever.

    Except these wrestlers found their greatest success not in AJPW or NOAH, but in NJPW.

    Based off of your borderline racist tendencies, I think it would be best if you cut off both your left and right testicles.
     
    #34
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  10. Supernova

    Supernova Occasional Pre-Show

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    I'm sorry how is not liking Japanese wrestling racist? Maybe you just don't want to see a black/samoan wrestler progress if that's the case? That's a low argument to put forward and it's clutching at straws because frankly that's all Misawa's got.
     
    #35
  11. Cena's Little Helper

    Cena's Little Helper Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    Thank you for responding, mongoloid.

    Let's see how his posts can be construed as racist:

    1) He discounted Misawa's strong record in the ring because he's from Japan. Do you know the definition of racism, by the way? How is treating someone's remarkable career as worthless because he's from Japan not a clear cut case of racism?

    2) He posted pictures of Japanese-American internment camps during WW II and suggested to posters that they figuratively do the same to the Japanese wrestlers in this tournament.

    3) He said he would cut off his left testicle if Misawa ever beat The Rock. What about that doesn't scream out loud that he sees Japanese wrestlers as inferior to their American counterparts?

    I've put forward a very clear-cut case for why I said what I said. Of course, I don't expect you to comprehend a word of it, since you are nothing more than an moronic troll who doesn't want Misawa to win because: a) he's an old wrestler (he's only 10 years older than The Rock), and b) he's from Japan, and, according to you, no one cares about Japanese wrestling.

    Obviously, you have no clue what you're talking about. Although not as popular as it once was, professional wrestling in Japan was huge in the 70s, 80s, 90s, and early 2000s. Do you want to dispute this claim? Go ahead, please do. I'm pretty sure that, once I post numbers, you and 48.7 will try to apply our Constitution's 3/5s clause to Japanese fans, since, you know, Japanese people don't count as much as us Americans.
     
    #36
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  12. gd

    gd Plump, Juicy User

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    I went Misawa here. Sure, Rock was is one of the best Americans ever. Maybe not wrestling wise, but overall, definetly top 5. Also, The Rundown was a pretty damn good movie. Of course, any movie with Christopher Walken is a good one.

    Misawas is probably #1 or 2 when it comes to Japanese wrestlers, or something like that. Also, when it comes to actually matches, he's top notch. According to Dave Meltzer, he's had around 178 five star matches, so that much mean something. At the very least it's enough to go over the Rock here.
     
    #37
  13. Supernova

    Supernova Occasional Pre-Show

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    You always know you're dealing with an intelligent person when they use "mongoloid" in a post where they later complain about racism :lmao:

    And no, I don't care about Japanese wrestling and not many people on these forums do (in comparison to American wrestling). I don't want a tournament full of all these ancient/foreign wrestlers, because it's less fun watching a select few guys stroke their chins and argue about the merits of the territory system vs the respect in the Japanese scene than it is seeing a debate on Ultimate Warrior vs The Rock or whatever. I'm pretty sure the picture he posted was just a joke, and for a lot of people they like to watch wrestling for the storylines and stuff to some extent (otherwise why don't you just watch a real sport?) and so obviously they're going to gravitate towards American wrestlers. How you can you seriously be upset that people on a predominantly English speaking forum prefer wrestlers from predominantly English speaking markets?
     
    #38
  14. Thriller Ant

    Thriller Ant Beep Bop Boop

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    Misawa is one of, if not the greatest wrestler in Japanese wrestling history. The Rock rode along on a wave of popularity in the 90's brought on by Stone Cold. The Rock was very good but Misawa is a legend. Easy choice here.
     
    #39
  15. Cena's Little Helper

    Cena's Little Helper Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    I meant that you were mentally ******ed, and, since you didn't even get that reference, I think me calling you so is the truth rather than an exaggerated insult.

    How would you know what people here care for? You've been on this forum for a whopping five months. And, given your level of intelligence, I seriously doubt you'd be able to correctly make such generalizations even if you'd been here for 5 years.

    All right, so, according to this guy, people that wrestled in the 80s and early 90s are ancient. Also, you do realize how many great American wrestlers had territorial origins, right? Wait, why am I even asking you this? You think someone who would now be in their mid-40s is ancient and can garner no interest whatsoever. Dude, with every post you make, you make it more and more obvious how much of a joke you are. You have nothing of value to say whatsoever; your only purpose here is to bitch about the participants of a tournament that was established way before you got here.

    I'm not upset that people like English-speaking wrestlers. I'm upset that should-be-abortions like yourself think of these tournaments as Nativist e-rallies and that Japanese wrestlers are automatically inferior to their American counterparts.
     
    #40
  16. Supernova

    Supernova Occasional Pre-Show

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    lol you missed the point on the comment about how using "mongoloid" as an insult is obviously racist but whatever, I don't really expect you to understand so i won't break it down for you.

    And yeah I have only been here 5 months but if what I said on that subject isn't true (i.e. a lot more people like American wrestling) feel free to prove me wrong :) And marking me down for not being here for 3 or 4 years is pathetic and a bit elitist but if this forum = your life I can see why you'd act like that so no worries - maybe if you got out a bit more you'd realise no one cares about guys like Misawa whereas everyone liked The Rock at one point - because he's a better pro-wrestler - which is why he should go over here.
     
    #41
  17. Cena's Little Helper

    Cena's Little Helper Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    I don't need you to break it down for me; I know the word has two very different meanings. It doesn't surprise me though that you would at first think of it as a pejorative terms for Asians, seeing as how you obviously think that they're "ancient" and not worthy of the same respect as American wrestlers.

    What, that a lot of people here prefer American wrestling? Well, no shit, Sherlock; someone should recommend you for a MacArthur Fellowship! Also, I'm not going to take any more time to prove you wrong, because I've already done so in this thread at least two times. But, please, if you want to continuously get owned, keep on posting.

    No, it's not elitist, you moron. It's me telling you that I highly doubt that, in five months, you've learned everyone's wrestling preferences. Seriously, I feel as if I can count all of your brain cells on one hand.

    Here's your argument:

    Premise #1: No one cares about Misawa. This is patently false.

    Premise #2: Everyone liked The Rock at one point. I'll be lenient and say this is true.

    Premise #3: The Rock was a better professional wrestler. Why is this the case? How does this particular premise follow from the previous two? How does "no one caring" about Misawa and "everyone liking" The Rock make The Rock a better wrestler? You have yet to answer this question adequately.

    Premise #4: tdigle never goes outside. Lame insult attempt on your part to save face from the total ass-whooping I'm giving you in this thread.

    Conclusion: You should vote for The Rock over Misawa. Based off of your argument, this conclusion should be rejected outright.
     
    #42
  18. Little Jerry Lawler

    Little Jerry Lawler Sigmund Freud On Ritalin And Roids

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    I've been told that this tournament is similar to Wrestlemania (I believe I was having this discussion in the DDP/Batista thread). Here are the Rock's wins at Wrestlemania.

    The Sultan, Ken Shamrock (DQ), Hogan, and Stone Cold.

    Some would consider the last two to be pretty formidable opponents. The WM 18 match sucked ass and it took until the 3rd Wrestlemania match between the two for Rock to finally get a win over Austin. I haven't forgotten how the Rock lost three straight WM main events. That's hardly a ringing endorsement for a wrestler who many of you claim can beat one of, if not, the greatest Japanese wrestlers of all time.

    As for the Rock's popularity, that is tied to Steve Austin 100%. Fans were chanting for the Rock's death early on in his career because Austin was crazy over. When Austin had surgery, that is when you saw the Rock's popularity skyrocket as well as HHH's. When Austin came back, the Rock was pushed down to #2 and became a mere footnote in the Invasion angle once his suspension was lifted.

    The only matches I've seen of the Rock that would be considered great are his two out of three falls and ladder match against HHH. When he was facing Stone Cold, it always seemed like Austin was superior and he was in each and every way.

    All these reasons are why I did not vote for The Rock.
     
    #43
  19. Supernova

    Supernova Occasional Pre-Show

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    I'm sorry what? First of all I don't care what Misawa can do in the ring, The Rock has beaten the likes of Benoit and Kurt Angle (an Olympic gold medalist) so for anyone to put Misawa over on the basis of "he's really good in the ring" is ridiculous as The Rock has proven he can beat pretty much any kind of wrestler. And it's pathetic to state that The Rock's popularity hinged solely on Stone Cold - I've admitted that was part of it but guess what, I bet we don't see anyone use that same argument to discount someone like Randy Savage (via Hogan affiliation) - yet again just an example of people voting against a wrestler for being popular. What are Misawa's win at Wrestlemania? Oh right, none.
     
    #44
  20. Cena's Little Helper

    Cena's Little Helper Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    Are you seriously going to try and claim that Japan doesn't have its fair share of in-ring greats? :lmao::lmao::lmao: Oh, man, this just keeps on getting better and better.

    Do you know how Misawa got over? He got over through a feud with Jumbo Tsuruta, a former amateur wrestler who finished seventh in a Greco-Roman tournament in the 1972 Summer Olympics. Also, in Japan, Benoit was dominant...in NJPW's light heavyweight division.

    Misawa has fought wrestlers that are on par and arguably even better than the ones you listed. I'd rather have someone besides yourself judge this, though, seeing as how someone having a Japanese name automatically makes them less of of an in-ring presence in your eyes.

    Yeah, I could give a fuck about this. I've smashed your claim about Rock's in-ring abilities to fucking smithereens, though.
     
    #45
  21. Supernova

    Supernova Occasional Pre-Show

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    What I love is how you think you've made a good point but all you've really done is pretend I said Japanese people can't wrestle and then shoot that argument down as opposed to actually engaging with what I said. I actually implied (very obviously) that Misawa does have good in-ring skills but that in fact The Rock doesn't lose merely because someone is more technically accomplished. You'll probably convince yourself I said something else and start beating your e-chest about it but you can't win them all right?
     
    #46
  22. Cena's Little Helper

    Cena's Little Helper Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    Actually, the one thing that you have implied all throughout this thread is that Japanese people can't wrestle. Why? Because they don't speak English, and no one on this forum cares about them.

    I would give you a second chance to state your argument clearly and succinctly, but I doubt the you have the ability to do so. However, I'll give you the chance.


    You've never implied any such thing, kid:

    Since you put "he's really good in the ring" in quotations, it's implied that this is something that someone else said and that you personally don't agree with it. Also, something can be inferred from your posts: you have probably never actually never watched a Misawa match, and have attacked him for no other reason than that he's Japanese.

    Also, I don't need to beat my chest and think that I'm a tough man. What I'm doing right now is preventing ignorant people like yourself from making unsubstantiated and poorly reasoned comments that would otherwise go unchecked.
     
    #47
  23. dd23beatlesfan1

    dd23beatlesfan1 Getting Noticed By Management

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    My God. I can't decide here. I'm also not really qualified to vote honestly. I've read up plenty on Misawa and know how much he means to the industry. But I just haven't seen near enough of his work to properly vote. If anyone wants to post some links to some of his matches that I can watch, I'll try to give them a viewing.

    If I can't find the time to do some research on Misawa then I probably won't vote in this matchup. It wouldn't be fair to vote against Misawa. If he was against a lesser opponent, I would probably just go ahead and vote for him, as I know he's great. But beings he's up against one of the best ever in the Rock, I can't go with Misawa based just off what I've read on him. The Rock is too great just for me to dismiss him like that.

    I'll hold off on voting on this one for now.
     
    #48
  24. D-Man

    D-Man Gone but never forgotten.

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    I'm going with Misawa.

    Sorry, but even though I was a huge Rock fan in his heyday, so was the rest of the fucking planet. Why? Because he had personality. And as we all know, personality in this business is a BIG selling point. Therefore, bookings revolving around his personality are what won him wrestling matches.

    Misawa was an extremely accomplished wrestling machine. Classic match after classic match, the guy raised the bar with every opponent he faced.

    The Rock's arsenal was based on a bunch of cliche' moves that, in the REAL world, wouldn't have put a dent in any wrestler's arsenal. Using a JR phrase that was so eloquently put in the past about many other wrestlers, the Rock was "all sizzle and no steak". You had to have a hell of an imagination to suspend your disbelief during a match involving the Rock. His moves LOOKED flashy and entertained everyone, but were so difficult to believe to be damaging.

    Misawa has always appeared to legitimately beat down his opponent and EARN his victories, without being all flashy. He walked into a ring and got the job done. When you're finished watching a Misawa match, you're satisfied with the outcome.

    Don't be blinded by the People's Elbow... If you want to judge a REALISTIC wrestling match here, just vote for who would REALLY have won it... Misawa.
     
    #49
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  25. Supernova

    Supernova Occasional Pre-Show

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    I don't buy that logic because no one would out Benoit over Hogan or anything like that. In wrestling, what we are judging, The Rock is a top drawer competitor. Otherwise Ken Shamrock should be in this thing and he'd beat the crap out of guys like HBK and Bret Hart in "the real world".
     
    #50

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