Second Round: Lexington - Dustin Rhodes vs. Rick Martel

[klunderbunker]

This is a second round matchup in the Lexington Subregion. The ring and arena are universal throughout the first round and the organization is not a factor. There is a 20 minute time limit. Vote using any criteria you like. Most votes in the poll at the end of the time period wins. In the case of a tie we will go off of the number of written votes. In the case of a second tie, both are eliminated. Assume one week has passed since the first match.

Location: Rupp Arena, Lexington, Kentucky.

Dustin Rhodes

Vs.

Rick Martel

Voting is open for 4 days.

 

[Hulkamaniac]

Wow, unreal draw for The Natural. Dustin Rhodes advances to the third round in a GOAT tournament, what are the odds? It's a solid match up, not a blow out by any means, but I think Rhodes is just a little better. Better worker, better promo, more versatility. Kayfabe wise, I see Gold-Dustin going over, and non-kayfabe reasons I like Dustin more. Vote Rhodes.

 

[Papa Shango]

I'm voting for Rick Martel. Honestly, neither of these guys should have made it past the first round, and makes me gag to think that one of these guys can advance to the third round. Honestly, the only reason I'm posting is to try and draw a double count-out so we can get both of these guys out of the tournament. But if I'm going to take real look at this match, I really would have to vote for Martel.

But for the love of God, please let's see if we can get this double countout so this tournament can look legit once again!

 

[Jack-Hammer]

This is a very even match that could ultimately wind up going either way. I think that Rick Martel is a wreslter that's very much underappreciated. He doesn't really get remembered all that fondly because his career as a singles wrestler in the WWF was ultimately a bust. However, Martel was a great tag team wrestler in his day and had the title wins to prove it. Prior to his second run in the WWF beginning in the late 80s, he was a legitimate main eventer in the AWA.

Dustin Rhodes also earned respectable success in the singles and tag team ranks, particularly in WCW with a couple of good runs as United States Champion and World Tag Team Champion. As Goldust in the early to mid 90s in the WWF, he was a unique and different character and had some decent runs with the IC title.

In the end, however, Dustin Rhodes always has been strictly mid-card wherever he's been and Martel did have a year and a half run with the AWA World Heavyweight Championship. It could go either way, but I'm giving it to Martel. I'm just a little more impressed by him overall.

 

[Ferbian]

While Goldust (I'm just gonna call him this throughout this thread, I'll confuse him with Dusty Rhodes eventually if I don't) certainly is one hell of a talent, even to this very day he's a great talent in the ring, underrated if you ask me, to say the least, while he probably shouldn't be all main event kind of guy, he could at least be in some proper feuds I would have to say, but that's for another thread.

Goldust has done a lot in this business, has kept me entertained through a lot of segments with Booker T especially, and his segment with Triple H and Ric Flair, some very entertaining moments, and a very entertaining guy all over, but Goldust just hasn't achieved the same success in this business like Rick Martel, and Rick was quite a wrestler himself, and has held a lot of both tag team and singles competition titles, including a world championship for over a years time, therefore I think I'm gonna have to vote Rick Martel over Goldust.

 

[Tastycles]

I just don't view the AWA title at a level that I probably should I don't think. There's no real reason for that, I just never watched the promotion, obviously, and as a result, it's counted against Martel here. Rhodes was a very good midcarder in the 90s, and even now is capable of some pretty top rate matches. He made Sheamusin a single feud bring the best in himself, which is something to be noted for. He also had a few world title matches #I think back in the day, but regardless he did better than Martel in a midcard that had Steve Austin, Triple H, Mick Fole and The Rock in it. Goldust deserves to win here.

 

[D-Man]

WHY THE HELL IS RHODES WINNING THIS??????

Guys... Martel is a FORMER WORLD CHAMPION. He held the title for TWO YEARS, defeating men like Ric Flair and Nick Bockwinkel. And you actually feel he should be losing to the master of the midcard, Dustin Rhodes?

I'll give you guys the benefit of the doubt... maybe you read the matchup wrong. Maybe you thought Martel was facing DUSTY (who he would win against in a heartbeat). But let me remind you that a former World Champion is facing someone that never got past the midcard.

Guys, wake up!! VOTE FOR RICK MARTEL!!!

 

[Big Sexy]

WHY THE HELL IS RHODES WINNING THIS??????

Guys... Martel is a FORMER WORLD CHAMPION. He held the title for TWO YEARS, defeating men like Ric Flair and Nick Bockwinkel. And you actually feel he should be losing to the master of the midcard, Dustin Rhodes?

I'll give you guys the benefit of the doubt... maybe you read the matchup wrong. Maybe you thought Martel was facing DUSTY (who he would win against in a heartbeat). But let me remind you that a former World Champion is facing someone that never got past the midcard.

Guys, wake up!! VOTE FOR RICK MARTEL!!!

At the time Martel became the champion in the AWA it was no longer viewed as being near the NWA or WWF in terms of credibility. If Martel had that reign a few years earlier when guys like Hogan and Andre were there then it might be viewed as a more significant reign then it was. Outside of that reign the biggest singles title Martel won was the TV title near the end of his career in WCW.

Dustin Rhodes was successful in his own right and very early on in his career he was able to win the US title in WCW by defeating Ricky Steamboat. He also had wins over names like Rick Rude, Stunning Steve Austin, and Arn Anderson during that initial run in WCW. Then in the WWE he pulled off one of the most controversial characters in wrestling history. I truly believe that no one outside of Rhodes could have made that gimmick work and have been as successful as he was with it. With the Goldust gimmick he had a very good initial run in the WWE defeating guys like Razor Ramon and the Undertaker.

Overall Goldust had a more successful career then Martel and for my money he was far more entertaining.

 

[D-Man]

At the time Martel became the champion in the AWA it was no longer viewed as being near the NWA or WWF in terms of credibility. If Martel had that reign a few years earlier when guys like Hogan and Andre were there then it might be viewed as a more significant reign then it was. Outside of that reign the biggest singles title Martel won was the TV title near the end of his career in WCW.

Dustin Rhodes was successful in his own right and very early on in his career he was able to win the US title in WCW by defeating Ricky Steamboat. He also had wins over names like Rick Rude, Stunning Steve Austin, and Arn Anderson during that initial run in WCW. Then in the WWE he pulled off one of the most controversial characters in wrestling history. I truly believe that no one outside of Rhodes could have made that gimmick work and have been as successful as he was with it. With the Goldust gimmick he had a very good initial run in the WWE defeating guys like Razor Ramon and the Undertaker.

But did Rhodes defeat guys like Bockwinkel and Ric Flair in their primes?? HELL to the fucking NO.

Was Rhodes tag team champions on three seperate teams back when the tag titles were as important as the Intercontinental title? HELL NO.

You can downplay how important the AWA was to pro-wrestling all you want, but it'll never change its legacy. If it weren't for the AWA, the WWE wouldn't even exist right now. They stole 90% of their talent pool from Verne Gagne. One of those guys was Rick Martel.

Fact of the matter is that Rick Martel was the champion of the AWA when the promotion was still on top. It was a promotion that contained the majority of the WWE's talent pool. Just because they decided not to push Martel doesn't mean he wasn't a greater champion and wrestler than Dustin Rhodes ever was.

Rhodes was a midcarder for life. Martel was a world champion.

Done deal.

VOTE MARTEL.

Overall Goldust had a more successful career then Martel and for my money he was far more entertaining.

You just lost your money.

 

[Big Sexy]

But did Rhodes defeat guys like Bockwinkel and Ric Flair in their primes?? HELL to the fucking NO.

Bockwinkel was about 50 years old when Martel beat him, that was hardly his prime. And although Rhodes didn't beat Flair, he did beat guys like Ricky Steamboat, Rick Rude, and Arn Anderson.

Was Rhodes tag team champions on three seperate teams back when the tag titles were as important as the Intercontinental title? HELL NO.

Considering Rhodes wasn't in the WWF during this time period it would have been hard for him to do that. However, he did win the IC title 3 times, and the US title twice, titles that Martel failed to win.

You can downplay how important the AWA was to pro-wrestling all you want, but it'll never change its legacy. If it weren't for the AWA, the WWE wouldn't even exist right now.

That's laughable. The AWA wasn't the only place the WWE got talent from, and if the AWA didn't exist that talent just would have been other places and still would have found their way to the WWE.

They stole 90% of their talent pool from Verne Gagne. One of those guys was Rick Martel.

90% my ass. They took a lot of talent but you act like the AWA was the only promotion they went to for talent. Places like Mid South, NWA, and Stampede wrestling all contributed to the WWF's talent roster.

Fact of the matter is that Rick Martel was the champion of the AWA when the promotion was still on top.

On top of what? Certainly not the WWF or NWA during that time period.

Just because they decided not to push Martel doesn't mean he wasn't a greater champion and wrestler than Dustin Rhodes ever was.

That's not the reason why Rhodes is better. He is just as good in the ring as Martel, and as good as Martel was playing his character and cutting promos, Rhodes was better.

Rhodes was a midcarder for life. Martel was a world champion.

The AWA title at the time Martel won it was probably on par with the US title Rhodes won in WCW.

Done deal.

VOTE MARTEL.

You are placing far too much emphasis on one world title reign from the third best promotion at that time.

You just lost your money.

Good one. I'll have to write that one down and use it sometime.

 

[D-Man]

Bockwinkel was about 50 years old when Martel beat him, that was hardly his prime. And although Rhodes didn't beat Flair, he did beat guys like Ricky Steamboat, Rick Rude, and Arn Anderson.

Actually, Bockwinkel's entire time in AWA was considered to be his prime. His first title was won at 40 years old. So what's your point?

Considering Rhodes wasn't in the WWF during this time period it would have been hard for him to do that. However, he did win the IC title 3 times, and the US title twice, titles that Martel failed to win.

Once again, you put the WWE's titles on such a pedastal and discard the AWA accomplishments. Nothing else really matters when Rhodes is up against a man that was a world champion for TWO STRAIGHT YEARS.

That's laughable. The AWA wasn't the only place the WWE got talent from

I don't remember saying that

and if the AWA didn't exist that talent just would have been other places and still would have found their way to the WWE.

Really? Prove it.

90% my ass. They took a lot of talent but you act like the AWA was the only promotion they went to for talent. Places like Mid South, NWA, and Stampede wrestling all contributed to the WWF's talent roster.

Hence, filling in the other 10%. Glad we're clear on that.

On top of what? Certainly not the WWF or NWA during that time period.

First of all, the NWA wasn't a promotion. It was a combination of promotions that all worked under the blanket of one title.

Secondly, Martel won the world championship four months after Hogan won HIS first title. Therefore, the AWA was bigger at the time.

That's not the reason why Rhodes is better. He is just as good in the ring as Martel, and as good as Martel was playing his character and cutting promos, Rhodes was better.

Your personal opinion is noted. I think Martel was better in the ring and on the mic. But this is getting us nowhere.

The AWA title at the time Martel won it was probably on par with the US title Rhodes won in WCW.

HAHAAHAHAH considering that the WWF(E) title wasn't much of anything until Hogan won it. Before that, the AWA and NWA titles were the most coveted in the industry. You need to do some research, bro.

You are placing far too much emphasis on one world title reign from the third best promotion at that time.

Once again, the AWA was THE BEST promotion at the time. They were regularly aired on ESPN and were more well-known. And how many superstars can you name that held a world title for two years, defeating Jumbo Tsuruta, Ric Flair, and Nick Bockwinkel along the way? It's ok... I'll wait...

Your logic can't win here. I've proven that the AWA was the biggest promotion in the world when Martel was champion. The only argument against that would be that it was on the same level with WWF(E) at the time, since Hogan just won his first title four months prior. Then that would just shift my point into saying that Martel was world champion of the OTHER largest promotion in the world at the same time (and for almost the same length of time) as Hulk Hogan. I think that basically urinates on Goldust's car chase with Roddy Piper.

Besides that, Martel WAS a multi-time tag champion with two different partners, defeated Booker T for the WCW Television title, and won many other championships in the AWA and other promotions.

You can't discard Martel. He's just better than Rhodes... period.

 

[Big Sexy]

Actually, Bockwinkel's entire time in AWA was considered to be his prime. His first title was won at 40 years old. So what's your point?

I'm just not that impressed with Martel beating a 50 year old man on the brink of retirement.

Once again, you put the WWE's titles on such a pedastal and discard the AWA accomplishments. Nothing else really matters when Rhodes is up against a man that was a world champion for TWO STRAIGHT YEARS.

When exactly did I disregard the title? Saying it wasn't held as in high regard as the WWF or NWA world titles isn't me disregarding the AWA title, it's stating facts.

Really? Prove it.

You prove it wouldn't be like that.

Hence, filling in the other 10%. Glad we're clear on that.

Nice job trying to cover up your bullshit statement. The WWF got just as much talent from other promotions as they got from AWA. There is no chance in hell 90% of the talent was from AWA. If someone wants to look at the WWE roster from a certain year and count up where everyone came from then be my guest but you know as well as I do that 90% was a ridiculously absurd number to use.

First of all, the NWA wasn't a promotion. It was a combination of promotions that all worked under the blanket of one title.

One title that was superior to the AWA title.

Secondly, Martel won the world championship four months after Hogan won HIS first title. Therefore, the AWA was bigger at the time.

What? The AWA was never really as big as the WWF let alone after Hogan had become champion.

HAHAAHAHAH considering that the WWF(E) title wasn't much of anything until Hogan won it. Before that, the AWA and NWA titles were the most coveted in the industry. You need to do some research, bro.

First of all, this statement has nothing to do with the thing you replied to. I said Rhodes US title win was on par with Martel's AWA title win. What does that have to do with the WWE title?

When was the AWA title bigger the the WWE title anyways? I'll take Bruno Sammartino, Bob Backlund, and Billy Graham over Verne Gagne and Nick Bockwinkel any day.

Once again, the AWA was THE BEST promotion at the time. They were regularly aired on ESPN and were more well-known. And how many superstars can you name that held a world title for two years, defeating Jumbo Tsuruta, Ric Flair, and Nick Bockwinkel along the way? It's ok... I'll wait...

The AWA was never ahead of WWF or NWA. The AWA at it's best was on par with the other promotions. You can talk about Martel's nearly two year title reign, but you have yet to mention how the AWA's audience began to leave while Martel was champion. I don't blame Martel but he obviously wasn't some great champion that was bringing in audiences. He was a right place, right time guy.

Your logic can't win here. I've proven that the AWA was the biggest promotion in the world when Martel was champion.

You haven't proven shit. Just because you say something is true doesn't make it true.

Besides that, Martel WAS a multi-time tag champion with two different partners, defeated Booker T for the WCW Television title, and won many other championships in the AWA and other promotions.

I'll take multiple IC and US title reigns over one TV title and a few tag titles.

You can't discard Martel. He's just better than Rhodes... period.

I'm not discarding him but no way is he better then Rhodes.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

I'm just not that impressed with Martel beating a 50 year old man on the brink of retirement.




When exactly did I disregard the title? Saying it wasn't held as in high regard as the WWF or NWA world titles isn't me disregarding the AWA title, it's stating facts.



You prove it wouldn't be like that.



Nice job trying to cover up your bullshit statement. The WWF got just as much talent from other promotions as they got from AWA. There is no chance in hell 90% of the talent was from AWA. If someone wants to look at the WWE roster from a certain year and count up where everyone came from then be my guest but you know as well as I do that 90% was a ridiculously absurd number to use.



One title that was superior to the AWA title.



What? The AWA was never really as big as the WWF let alone after Hogan had become champion.



First of all, this statement has nothing to do with the thing you replied to. I said Rhodes US title win was on par with Martel's AWA title win. What does that have to do with the WWE title?

When was the AWA title bigger the the WWE title anyways? I'll take Bruno Sammartino, Bob Backlund, and Billy Graham over Verne Gagne and Nick Bockwinkel any day.


The AWA was never ahead of WWF or NWA. The AWA at it's best was on par with the other promotions. You can talk about Martel's nearly two year title reign, but you have yet to mention how the AWA's audience began to leave while Martel was champion. I don't blame Martel but he obviously wasn't some great champion that was bringing in audiences. He was a right place, right time guy.



You haven't proven shit. Just because you say something is true doesn't make it true.



I'll take multiple IC and US title reigns over one TV title and a few tag titles.



I'm not discarding him but no way is he better then Rhodes.

Hogan brought wrestling into the mainstream and where did that start? By Vince signing Hogan from the AWA.

If you're not impressed by Martel beating a 50 year old guy, does that mean you think less of HHH for beating up a 49-year old Hogan or HBK for beating up a 59-year old Flair.

 

[Big Sexy]

Hogan brought wrestling into the mainstream and where did that start? By Vince signing Hogan from the AWA.

I'm well aware of that fact. Now what exactly was the point of this statement? Because Verne Gagne is an idiot and didn't know what he had in Hogan, Martel should beat Rhodes?

If you're not impressed by Martel beating a 50 year old guy, does that mean you think less of HHH for beating up a 49-year old Hogan or HBK for beating up a 59-year old Flair.

Is this really a question? Of course it does. Hogan and Flair in their 30's are much much better then Hogan and Flair in their late 40's and 50's. I'm not saying beating Bockwinkel still wasn't a good win but it doesn't impress me too much.

 

[D-Man]

I'm just not that impressed with Martel beating a 50 year old man on the brink of retirement.

But your opinion means absolute DICK here. Men like Bockwinkel, Batista, and DDP prove that age means nothing in wrestling. You can win your first world titles at ANY age. It's all about your star power. Bockwinkel was a pioneer in the business and helped put men like Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair, and Rick Martel on the map.

When exactly did I disregard the title? Saying it wasn't held as in high regard as the WWF or NWA world titles isn't me disregarding the AWA title, it's stating facts.

But your facts are false. I already proved that Martel's world title win was at a time when the WWF was nowhere near its peak. Shit, even the WWE'S title was below the NWA title back then.

But at that time, the AWA ruled the airwaves. They were the only programming to be televised on ESPN (television's premier channel for sports) during a time when television sets barely had 13 channels. That makes it a MUCH bigger deal than the WWE.

The WWE only had television programming on MTV, which was a flea on a horse's ass compared to what it is today.

The AWA, once again, is now 100% proven to have been superior to the WWE at the time of Martel's world title reign, thus making him relevantly the most important man in pro-wrestling at the time (aside from Ric Flair holding the NWA title).

You prove it wouldn't be like that.

Are we playing patty-cake here? I don't need to prove shit. My side of the story actually happened and yours didn't. I'm assuming that reality is enough proof for you?

Nice job trying to cover up your bullshit statement. The WWF got just as much talent from other promotions as they got from AWA. There is no chance in hell 90% of the talent was from AWA. If someone wants to look at the WWE roster from a certain year and count up where everyone came from then be my guest but you know as well as I do that 90% was a ridiculously absurd number to use.

*YAWN* You know, my percentage is probably off, but if you're going to bank your entire side of this debate on this minor detail then you've truly lost here.

One title that was superior to the AWA title.

I said nothing about superiority. I gave you a history lesson that you OBVIOUSLY needed. You called the NWA a "promotion." You couldn't have been more wrong.

Actually, the WWF(E) was a part of the NWA umbrella for a while. And so was the AWA, considering that the NWA champion would frequently visit the promotion to wrestle. Hell, I even remember that Ric Flair came to the AWA while holding the NWA championship and wrestled it's world champion, Nick Bockwinkel, to a double countout. Ric Flair couldn't even beat Bockwinkel, the AWA champion, in his prime as an NWA champion. But guess who DID beat Bockwinkel? Yup... Rick Martel. That makes Martel better than Flair when Flair was the NWA champion. That also means that the AWA champion was better than the NWA champion at the time.

The NWA was a hybrid and definitely a superior title. But once you prove that Dustin Rhodes was even 10 miles close to winning it, I'll back off this debate.

What? The AWA was never really as big as the WWF let alone after Hogan had become champion.

Um... yes it was. Actually it was bigger. It was the first pro-wrestling promotion to get television syndication, the first to get a weekly television spot on ESPN, the first promotion to hold a pay per view... should I go on? What, did you think Vince created EVERYTHING?

First of all, this statement has nothing to do with the thing you replied to. I said Rhodes US title win was on par with Martel's AWA title win. What does that have to do with the WWE title?

Let's recap then. You said the AWA title (at the time) meant as much as the WCW US title. Just prior to that we were speaking about the WWE title's prestige during the time when Hogan won it. I mentioned that the WWE title didn't mean jack shit until Hogan won it. So my previous statements that proved you wrong about the amount of prestige that the AWA title had versus the WWE title make my reply in this case to be completely relevant.

When was the AWA title bigger the the WWE title anyways? I'll take Bruno Sammartino, Bob Backlund, and Billy Graham over Verne Gagne and Nick Bockwinkel any day.

That's really easy to say, 30+ years after the fact. Like I said multiple times in this debate, your opinion means absolute dogshit. Facts are facts. Sure, we view Backlund, Graham, and Sammartino as being superior legends. After all, the WWE survived the territory war and had 30-years to repaint their legacy and brainwash everyone into thinking they were always the top dog. You're a perfect example of that.

Big Sexy, you're speaking to a person that LIVED through the golden age of wrestling... not READ about it (like some people). When Hogan won his title, if it weren't for the constant replays of his match with the Iron Shiek on MTV and the channel's quick rise in popularity, no one would have heard about Hulk Hogan's epic win over the Iron Sheik. It's amazing how 30 years, Wikipedia, Vince's marketing ploys, monopolization of territorial wrestling, and WWE Home Video can change things in the minds of the viewers.

The AWA was never ahead of WWF or NWA. The AWA at it's best was on par with the other promotions. You can talk about Martel's nearly two year title reign, but you have yet to mention how the AWA's audience began to leave while Martel was champion.

You think it was because of Martel?

Or Vince raiding their talent pool? Or the rise of a superstar named Hulk Hogan? Or disagreements under the umbrella of the NWA title? Either way, Martel defeated a man who (two years prior) Hulk Hogan couldn't take a title off of.

I don't blame Martel but he obviously wasn't some great champion that was bringing in audiences. He was a right place, right time guy.

And Martel was a world champion. Who was Rhodes drawing in? What has he done that is NEARLY on par with the accomplishments that I've mentioned by Rick Martel?

You haven't proven shit. Just because you say something is true doesn't make it true.

I haven't? Last I checked, I proved that Martel was a credible champion, had a two-year long reign in a top rated promotion, held three tag team titles during a time when tag team wrestling surpassed any other midcard titles, and most of all, I proved that you don't know jack shit about the NWA and need to go back and do some homework.

I think I've proven enough.

I'll take multiple IC and US title reigns over one TV title and a few tag titles.

Feel free. But I'll stick by a guy who won those tag titles during a time and era when tag titles were not hot potatoes like the IC and US titles were for Rhodes when HE won them. Oh, and I'll also stick by a former world champion.

I'm not discarding him but no way is he better then Rhodes.

Rhodes could even clean the dried up piss drops off Martel's toilet bowl. Stop living in your dream world and start thinking about Martel's true PRIME, which was before wrestling as you know it today. He is a legend in this business and is always tarnished by ONE of his gimmicks that he had in the WWE - The Model. I will fully admit that he didn't do jack shit with that gimmick except for some great runs in a few Royal Rumbles and a bunch of memorable feuds with the likes of Jake Roberts, Shawn Michaels, and Tito Santana. But that's not where he paved his legacy. The AWA is where that all happened. And like I have proven, holding an AWA title prior to 1985 was considered to be a top world title in the wrestling world, just under the NWA title.

 

[Adam08]

I am voting for Rick Martel he is a underrated legend imo. Like D man said he has wins over some of pro wrestling best in there prime in Bockwinkel and Flair. Also I think its a pretty big accomplishment to be world champion back in the golden era of professional wrestling. I think this would be a hard fought match and if Martel is playing the heel role in the match when the ref is not looking he use's that spray in Dustin Rhodes eyes for the pin.

 

[Big Sexy]

But your opinion means absolute DICK here. Men like Bockwinkel, Batista, and DDP prove that age means nothing in wrestling. You can win your first world titles at ANY age. It's all about your star power. Bockwinkel was a pioneer in the business and helped put men like Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair, and Rick Martel on the map.

Again I'm not knocking Bockwinkel but you act like Martel beating him is some huge thing that no on ever did. He was fucking 50. I don't care how late he became a main eventer, at a certain age when someone beats you it loses some of it's luster.

But your facts are false. I already proved that Martel's world title win was at a time when the WWF was nowhere near its peak. Shit, even the WWE'S title was below the NWA title back then.

It wasn't at it's peak but still ahead of the AWA.

But at that time, the AWA ruled the airwaves. They were the only programming to be televised on ESPN (television's premier channel for sports) during a time when television sets barely had 13 channels. That makes it a MUCH bigger deal than the WWE.

And the WWE was airing on the USA network, had specials on MTV and had already aired the first Saturday Night Main Event on NBC before the AWA even debuted on ESPN. The NWA's Georiga Championship Wrestling also started airing on TBS in 1976.

The WWE only had television programming on MTV, which was a flea on a horse's ass compared to what it is today.

Lol, you are the one who needs to get your facts straight. The WWF was already on the USA network and they had debuted the first Saturday Night Main Event before AWA was on ESPN.

The AWA, once again, is now 100% proven to have been superior to the WWE at the time of Martel's world title reign, thus making him relevantly the most important man in pro-wrestling at the time (aside from Ric Flair holding the NWA title).

All you proved was that you have no idea what you are talking about and are embarrassing yourself in this debate.

*YAWN* You know, my percentage is probably off, but if you're going to bank your entire side of this debate on this minor detail then you've truly lost here.

That was very a minor part of my argument.

I said nothing about superiority. I gave you a history lesson that you OBVIOUSLY needed. You called the NWA a "promotion." You couldn't have been more wrong.

You are the one in need of a history lesson based on the majority of your arguments. I simply worded my statement wrong. Mistakes happen.

Actually, the WWF(E) was a part of the NWA umbrella for a while. And so was the AWA, considering that the NWA champion would frequently visit the promotion to wrestle. Hell, I even remember that Ric Flair came to the AWA while holding the NWA championship and wrestled it's world champion, Nick Bockwinkel, to a double countout. Ric Flair couldn't even beat Bockwinkel, the AWA champion, in his prime as an NWA champion. But guess who DID beat Bockwinkel? Yup... Rick Martel. That makes Martel better than Flair when Flair was the NWA champion. That also means that the AWA champion was better than the NWA champion at the time.

Wow. You're really going to pull one of those "guy A beat guy B and guy B beat guy C so obviously guy A was better then guy C" arguments. Fantastic.

The NWA was a hybrid and definitely a superior title. But once you prove that Dustin Rhodes was even 10 miles close to winning it, I'll back off this debate.

Rhodes pretty much as a rookie was the US champion in WCW in the early 90's and that was just one step below the NWA title at that point, so I'd say he was closer then you think.

Um... yes it was. Actually it was bigger.

Not at all.

It was the first pro-wrestling promotion to get television syndication,

That I'll give you

the first to get a weekly television spot on ESPN

Because we all know what a great wrestling network ESPN has been.

the first promotion to hold a pay per view

No they weren't. AWA had one pay per view in their entire existence and it was in 1988.

What, did you think Vince created EVERYTHING?

It's obvious you think I'm stupid but please don't insult my intelligence with this bullshit.

I mentioned that the WWE title didn't mean jack shit until Hogan won it. So my previous statements that proved you wrong about the amount of prestige that the AWA title had versus the WWE title make my reply in this case to be completely relevant.

How did the WWF title before Hogan mean any less then any other title?

That's really easy to say, 30+ years after the fact. Like I said multiple times in this debate, your opinion means absolute dogshit. Facts are facts. Sure, we view Backlund, Graham, and Sammartino as being superior legends. After all, the WWE survived the territory war and had 30-years to repaint their legacy and brainwash everyone into thinking they were always the top dog. You're a perfect example of that.

God you're full of yourself. I never said The WWE was always the top dog. But I'd like you to tell me how Verne Gagne and Nick Bockwinkel were better then Backlund, Sammartino, and Graham. The first two guys were the AWA champions almost constantly until Martel. The latter three were the WWF champions, not counting Iron Shiek, before Hogan.

You think it was because of Martel?

If you would have quoted my whole statement you'd see I said I don't blame Martel.

Either way, Martel defeated a man who (two years prior) Hulk Hogan couldn't take a title off of.

You know as well as I do that Hogan dominate Bockwinkel and defeated him only to have decisions reversed on technicalities. If Verne Gagne wasn't an idiot then maybe Hogan never goes to the WWF and everything in history is different.

And Martel was a world champion. Who was Rhodes drawing in? What has he done that is NEARLY on par with the accomplishments that I've mentioned by Rick Martel?

Who did Martel draw in? The AWA lost viewers with him as champion. Again not all his fault but it's not like he was some huge draw either.

and most of all, I proved that you don't know jack shit about the NWA and need to go back and do some homework.

One wording mistake and all the sudden I don't know shit. I was trying to lump together the WWF and NWA's titles saying they were superior and I used promotion to describe both instead of just the WWF. Mistakes happen. You've made far more then I have in this debate. 90% of the WWF's talent came form AWA? AWA had the first pay per view? Any of those ring a bell?

Rhodes could even clean the dried up piss drops off Martel's toilet bowl.

Rhodes is the superior performer and just as good in the ring. Sorry he didn't have the benefit of their being three world titles he could have won during his prime.

And like I have proven, holding an AWA title prior to 1985 was considered to be a top world title in the wrestling world, just under the NWA title.

So now it's only good holding the AWA title before 1985? I guess that makes 13 of Martel's 19 month reign shit.

 

[gd]

Goldust, for sure. Not only is he a pretty solid wrestler, but the gimmick is fantastic as well. Not many guys can get over whilst dressing up all in gold, much less survive a run as Black Reign (that was him, right?). Honestly, whoever wins this is going to get murdered by Benoit next round, so it doesn't really matter.

 

[dd23beatlesfan1]

To me this might've been one of the more difficult matches in this round to choose a winner on.

Because neither of these guys are amongst "the elite wrestlers ever" category. But both guys nontheless had very successful, memorable careers. Rick Martel and Dustin Rhodes both were upper-mid carders in the WWE at their best but never reached main event level. In 1996, Goldust was arguably the biggest heel in the WWE at the time (besides probably Vader), and the I-C champ. So he was almost main-event level but not quite.

Rick Martel on the other hand never won a single title in the WWE, but he still had big feuds with Jake Roberts especially, which while a mid-card feud was still one of the biggest feuds in the WWE in late 90/early 91. He was also in the final Survivor Series match at the 90 Survivor Series against the two biggest babyfaces of the time, Hogan and Warrior (and Tito Santana). Martel also had a long feud with Tito Santana, had a short but memorable feud with a rising Shawn Michaels. And while it was a mid card feud, his feud with Tatanka in 1992 was pretty big, considering Tatanka was getting a pretty big push and was a guy that WWE seemed to be going with for a big future run. Rick Martel played a major part in him getting over. And then when Razor Ramon won his first I-C title and thus became one of the top babyfaces, it was against Rick Martel that got him over, as Martel was his opponent for the I-C title. Martel also had some strong finishes in battle royals and had a great memorable performance in the 1991 Royal Rumble, which is still one of the longest runs in the Royal Rumble match ever. For a guy that never won any titles, Rick Martel certainly had a notable career in the WWE, and a successful one I'd say.

Goldust had more success in WWE and was a better character and more influential one. (I think his influence on the Attitude Era goes very unnoticed. His character was tremendously edgy even before Pillman, Austin, D-X and Bret Hart's heel turn).

But ultimately I voted for Rick Martel for one simple reason. Martel is a World Champion, Dustin Rhodes never was. Now yeah, the AWA title is not as big a deal as any of the WWE titles or the WCW title in today's wrestling landscape. But at one point in time the AWA was just as prestigious as the WWWF and the NWA, and Martel was one of the last champions of the AWA before it began it's decline. So yeah it wasn't the WWE title, but it's still a world title. Dustin Rhodes won almost every major mid-card title in wrestling throughout the last 20 years, but he never won a World title. In a matchup as close as this one, one simple thing can be the difference maker.


I don't blame people voting for either guy though. Both are two of the more solid, reliable talents that the wrestling scene has had in the last 25 years.