Rock' em, Sock 'em, Brock 'em

[Mustang Sally]

I want to talk about the contract renewal. This isn't part of the "Brock Lesnar Re-signs" thread which concerns how he'll be used; it's about the factors behind his "re-enlistment."

Wouldn't you have loved to be a fly on the wall during these negotiations? My presumption is that Brock has had representation during all this, talking to the WWE team about terms within the parameters discussed with Brock ......and taking WWE offers back to Brock for approval. If that was the case, what in the world was the fight about between Vince McMahon and Lesnar? Was Brock actually arguing money the night of one of his rare ring appearances.....which didn't even come off? Or was it something else about his contract.....the number of annual appearances, the degree of creative control......or factors none of us would even think of?

Were the "negotiations" with UFC strictly a diversion tactic by Brock? Did Vince McMahon know that.....or did he think Brock was seriously considering going back to the octagon? The comments made by Dana White of UFC shed no light at all, did they? Was this by agreement with Brock? If so, why would White want to piss McMahon off by presumably costing Vince more money to sign Brock?

Finally, do you think WWE actually had an alternate set of strategic plans for the future......one with Brock and one without? Yes, it seems unfathomable they'd go to such lengths to accommodate one man.......but did they? After all, the whole world title picture is altered by the presence .....or non-presence.....of this guy. Mercenary or not, he's that important.

Anyone have any answers or theories?

 

[CharlesKane]

I may be way off, but watching Brock ' s interview, he seemed completely comfortable and did not in slightest seem to be putting on a character. From that I take it more as Brock was a man who had an opinion of what his worth to the company was, and he waited for Vince to meet it.

He and Dana White are friends, but I don't think there was any kind of collusion to raise Brock's value, so much as Dana White as a promoter was going to use the speculation to raise interest in his promotion even if he knew he wasn't getting Brock back.

 

[MCMG]

I'm guessing Brock realised UFC will be extremely difficult and to get to the top will be challenging. His age is a factor and, after a couple of losses, it could be disaster. Then he would just have to hope the WWE take him back. WWE offers greater stability and a better schedule. Plus, Brock might actually be having fun doing this.

Ultimately, both parties would have paid Brock a shitload of money. The UFC have one or two big draws who themselves are nothing like what came before. Punk's impact is yet to be seen but Dana obviously wanted Brock. Furthermore, they are still charging full price while the WWE are showing what they think of the PPV market.

The money in the short term with WWE would probably have been similar but, long-term, I imagine it is night and day. Plus, a far greater schedule and perhaps a more enjoyable job. I mean, there must be some part of Brock who loves tearing the house down. Sure he doesn't get the athletic competition but there are enough factors to explain why he is staying.

To be honest, I'm guessing the WWE didn't know until Monday. I'd also guess they still don't know what the finish for Wrestlemania will be and Vince will decide on the day. That obviously impacts the long-term booking but those places can very easily be put in place. I'd much rather go into a creative meeting with the "problem" of Brock Lesnar than without.

 

[SoulTrain4]

Brock knows as well as Dana White that he couldn't compete at that level anymore. He merely used UFC as bargaining leverage but in reality there was never any other option. I'm sure he could have done commentary or something for UFC or become an analyst but he wouldn't make nearly as much as he could in WWE, so again there was no other real option.

I would imagine the deal includes more dates and a bit if a raise, I don't see it as an overly tense situation between the two.

 

[Mustang Sally]

He merely used UFC as bargaining leverage but in reality there was never any other option.

Yes, and that's what I've been wondering about. For all we know, the reason for the argument between Vince and Brock could have been that Brock was sticking to his: "If you don't give me what I want, I'll go to UFC" rant and Vince was responding with: "Don't bullshit a bullshitter" thereby causing Brock to explode and walk off the show, which seems like a completely unprofessional stunt to pull, given his already over-privileged status in WWE, no?

 

[JoeMallard]

Brock knows as well as Dana White that he couldn't compete at that level anymore. He merely used UFC as bargaining leverage but in reality there was never any other option. I'm sure he could have done commentary or something for UFC or become an analyst but he wouldn't make nearly as much as he could in WWE, so again there was no other real option.

I would imagine the deal includes more dates and a bit if a raise, I don't see it as an overly tense situation between the two.

He did say he had been training for a UFC return, but his heart wasn't in it. He felt physical capable, but not mentally. It was reported awhile ago that Brock wanted to work more dates, but Vince thought he was better kept as a special attraction. I don't think it was bargaining leverage, but it probably helped.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

I have a feeling some sort of compromise was reached in which both sides had to give a little and give up a little.

Here's the thing about Brock Lesnar that holds true with any wrestler: there's a limit to how much he's worth. There comes a point in which you're just simply throwing money away because what you're paying for doesn't match up to whatever the price tag is. If Brock Lesnar was helping to deliver record shattering ratings, ppv buys/network subscriptions and merchandise, then I could understand Vince essentially handing over the keys to the kingdom. However, the fact of the matter is that while Lesnar is a good draw for WWE, his presence isn't generating mind boggling, undreamed of levels of profit. As a result, if Lesnar essentially wanted the sun & stars to re-sign with WWE, it's no wonder Vince dug his heels in and said "uh huh." WWE has obviously made concessions to Lesnar, but I think a point has been reached where Lesnar isn't going to get any greater levels of preferential treatment. I mean, frankly, he hasn't really earned it. Yes, he brings a lot to the table but not THAT much. Of course, it'd be a bit easier if we knew how much Lesnar was making his last deal, though I have a very difficult time believing he was making less than mid six figures for every match he wrestled. Considering how little he actually worked, there had to have been a point during talks of a new deal in which Vince said or thought something like "Okay, now you're just being a greedy bastard and I'm not paying that much if you pissed champagne and shit golden eggs."

All of this is just a guess on my part based on what few solid facts we have and from what we've observed as fans over the past couple of years. I also think that both sides had to weigh their options. Without Brock Lesnar, WWE would go on and they'd be just fine, but could Lesnar say the same thing? No other wrestling company can offer Lesnar the level of finances and exposure that WWE can; Lesnar knows that and Vince knows that so it's unlikely we'd see him heading to TNA or ROH because they just simply can't afford him. New Japan Pro Wrestling would probably be out as it's doubtful they could afford him, New Japan has been losing money more often than not for much of the past decade, and something of a tumultuous history. There's always MMA but not only do I feel that really wasn't what Lesnar wanted, it probably wouldn't be in his best interest physically. Lesnar's almost 38 and that's pretty old for someone to be engaging in real fights. Lesnar's case of diverticulitis was extremely serious, I think he was actually in a coma for a few days if I'm not mistaken, and had to have like a foot or so of his small intestine surgically removed, you have to wonder if Lesnar has ever really been the same after that.

Just a guess, I'd say that Lesnar is making a bit more than he was with his last deal, maybe 10 to 15% more, but that's all just a shot in the dark.

 

[chuckmdubya]

Well, now that we have seen how this has all played out, I think its very possible that this whole thing as been kayfabe. Brock didn't decide on Sunday that he didn't wanna be a UFC fighter anymore, he probably decided that when he returned to WWE in 2012.

It is possible that it was all a work. A way to get people to subscribe in the weeks leading up to WM. Also, we know that Dana White isn't camera shy either, and just talk of Lesnar returning would bring a few mores eyes to UFC.

I don't think the Reigns angle was a work, I believe the fans not wanting him was organic. But this was utilized by WWE by announcing it this week instead of after WM. This way now people believe Brock may actually win, so now they are after those non subscribers who want to see Lesnar win.

I'm a bit of a skeptic with WWE, I think the whole "reality era" thing is actually just a way to make fans believe they know more than they do about the product, they leak some good info and hold back on the real good stuff.

So all in all, Brock is smart for staying and ensuring his Beast persona, rather than risking it in UFC. I believe that WWE worked the fans the way it always has and that Brock had agreed to terms long before the announcement, and that the Raw walkout, and the talk of taking the title elsewhere was all story building.

 

[Mustang Sally]

Here's the thing about Brock Lesnar that holds true with any wrestler: there's a limit to how much he's worth. There comes a point in which you're just simply throwing money away because what you're paying for doesn't match up to whatever the price tag is.

That's the essence of it, plus how difficult it must be for management to negotiate contracts with the rest of the roster, given that Brock's deal must blow the hell out of the company's salary structure......and by WWE's own choice, right?

I'm not saying Brock's presence doesn't justify it, because I have no idea whether he's worth it or not. How is it figured? When a mid-carder comes in at contract time and tries to get a raise in salary by saying: "You pay Brock Lesnar $X million dollars and the guy works only 8 days a year" does Vince McMahon tell him "Yes, but Brock brings us an additional xxx buys per PPV and xxx more people sign up for the WWE Network because of him" it might be an effective way to get the guy off Vince's back......but how does he arrive at those numbers?

If there's a formula, as you say, wouldn't you love to know what it is? How that sort of thing can possibly be measured is beyond my ability to understand, that's for sure.

At any rate, McMahon telling the employee who wants a raise "Don't compare yourself to Brock Lesnar" sure isn't gonna create a locker room of happy campers.

Hell, for all we know, Brock is underpaid, but I doubt the folks who spend 300 days a year on the road while earning a fraction of what Brock gets are going to think so.

 

[Navi]

That's the essence of it, plus how difficult it must be for management to negotiate contracts with the rest of the roster, given that Brock's deal must blow the hell out of the company's salary structure......and by WWE's own choice, right?

I'm not saying Brock's presence doesn't justify it, because I have no idea whether he's worth it or not. How is it figured? When a mid-carder comes in at contract time and tries to get a raise in salary by saying: "You pay Brock Lesnar $X million dollars and the guy works only 8 days a year" does Vince McMahon tell him "Yes, but Brock brings us an additional xxx buys per PPV and xxx more people sign up for the WWE Network because of him" it might be an effective way to get the guy off Vince's back......but how does he arrive at those numbers?

If there's a formula, as you say, wouldn't you love to know what it is? How that sort of thing can possibly be measured is beyond my ability to understand, that's for sure.

At any rate, McMahon telling the employee who wants a raise "Don't compare yourself to Brock Lesnar" sure isn't gonna create a locker room of happy campers.

Hell, for all we know, Brock is underpaid, but I doubt the folks who spend 300 days a year on the road while earning a fraction of what Brock gets are going to think so.

None of us here were in those negotiations so none of us can tell what really went down. As far as Lesnar is concerned I think he made his mind up a long time ago that he wasn't going back to UFC. He's not getting any younger and all reports say other fighters were gunning for him and just waiting for his return. That alone could have been a deterrent to him saying, forget it.

I'm sure he got the best deal he could out of McMahon, but I don't think it's as much as everyone thinks it is. His title run hasn't been wonderful, the build to the main event has been lack lustre to say the least, so all that might have figured into the amount he settled for.

How many people actually pay full price for PPV's anymore? Getting the network is so much cheaper, that his presence doesn't really affect buyrates like it did in the past. Every wrestler should be paid on their own merits. Lesnar doesn't do a lot but gets paid more than others. I'm sure as time goes by his star will begin to lose it's sparkle, so this might have been his last hurrah.

He's also a friend of Dana White's and it was the media that went nuts when he attended the UFC fight. He didn't shy away from the camera, but I'm sure Vince already knew he was staying, the only thing that had to be ironed out was for how much. The guy is a millionaire many times over and doesn't need the money, but he's not going to work for nothing.