Ric Flair's World title wins

[NegativeFeedback]

Ric Flair's total World title reigns have always been a hot debate. WWE considers him a 16-time World Champion due to his reigns as WWE, NWA and WCW World Heavyweight Champion. However, many of us know that he has won and lost the title plenty more times than WWE alludes to.

I have done my research and these are the world title wins that Ric Flair achieved:

1. NWA World title, 17 Sep 1981: He beats Dusty Rhodes at a live event.
2. NWA World title, 09 Feb 1982: "The Midnight Rider" beats him, but is forced to give the title back to Flair due to a rule stating masked wrestlers can't hold the title.
3. NWA World title, 07 Sep 1982: Jack Veneno beats Flair at Dom. Rep. over fear that the crowd would riot had Veneno lost. Veneno unceremoniously just gives it back.
4. NWA World title, 23 Jan 1982: Carlos Colón beats Flair for the title in Puerto Rico and Flair takes it back a few days later in Miami.
5. NWA World title, 08 Feb 1983: Victor Jovica beats Flair for the title in Trinidad, but the title is given back to Flair due to Victor's feet being on the ropes.
6. NWA World title, 04 Nov 1983: Harley Race beats Flair for the title in June at a live event, but Flair takes it back in a Steel Cage match.
7. NWA World title, 23 Mar 1983: Harley Race beats Flair for the title at a live event and loses it back 2 days later.
8. NWA World title, 24 May 1983: Kerry Von Erich beats Flair for the title and loses it back to him two weeks later in Japan.
9. NWA World title, 28 Nov 1985: Dusty Rhodes beats Flair for the title in the original, but the decision is changed to a DQ. This is the original "Dusty Finish".
10. NWA World title, 09 Aug 1986: Dusty Rhodes beats Flair for the title at TGAB, but loses it back to him two weeks later.
11. NWA World title, 26 Nov 1987: Ron Garvin beats Flair for the title, but loses it back to him at Starrcade.
12. NWA World title, 07 May 1989: Ricky Steamboat beats Flair for the title at the Chi-Town Rumble and loses it back to him at WrestleWar.
13. NWA World title, 11 Jan 1991: Sting beats Flair for the title at TGAB and loses it back to him at a live event.
14. WCW World title, Due to some problems between WCW and NWA, Flair was being presented as WCW World Champion in WCW shows.
15. NWA World title, 19 May 1991: Tatsumi Fujinami beats Flair for the title at a big New Japan/WCW show, but then loses it back to him at SuperBrawl.
16. WWF World title, 19 Jan 1992: Ric Flair is stripped of the NWA title due to signing with WWF. He wins the WWF title at the Royal Rumble.
17. WWF World title, 01 Sep 1992: Randy Savage beats Ric for the title at WrestleMania, but loses it back to him at Prime Time Wrestling.
18. NWA/WCW International World title, 18 Jul 1993: Ric Flair signs back with WCW and beats Barry Windham for the title at Beach Blast. WCW renames the title due to dropping from NWA.
19. WCW World title, 27 Dec 1993: Ric Flair beats Vader for the title at Starr Cade '93.
20. WCW World title, 21 Apr 1994: The title is held up after a double pin with Steamboat. Flair gains it back in a rematch. WWE doesn't recognize this decision at all.
21. WCW International World title, 23 Jun 1994: Ric Flair beats WCW IN Champ Rick Rude in a unification match.
22. WCW World title, 27 Dec 1995: Ric Flair beats Randy Savage for the World title at StarrCade.
23. WCW World title, 11 Feb 1996: Randy Savage wins back the title on Nitro but loses it back at SuperBrawl.
24. WCW World title, 14 Mar 1999: Ric Flair beats Hulk Hogan for the title in a First Blood Cage match at Uncensored.
25. WCW World title, 15 May 2000: Ric Flair beats Jeff Jarrett for the title on Nitro.
26. WCW World title, 29 May 2000: Kevin Nash just gives the title to Ric who immediately loses it to Jeff Jarrett.

So that's 26 World title reigns. The title changes underlined are the ones that the WWE doesn't count. But I just don't understand why they don't count some of these reigns.

I get why they don't count #2, #9 and #20. Those were basically red herrings and reversed almost immediately. WWE has done those plenty of times as well. #3, #4 and #5 were just local treats and were never recognized by NWA in the US so it makes sense why they don't recognize those either. And finally, #15 was basically the same NWA title he got from Sting. They just started calling it by a different name. I understand why WWE doesn't count that one as a distinct reign also.

But #7, #14 and #21 boggle my mind. Flair beat Harley Race and lost it two days later. Harley Race calls himself an 9-time World Champion because of it.

And it might be easy for people to chalk up Tatsumi's win in Japan as another "local treat" that wouldn't be recognized anywhere else, but this wasn't an obscure live event. Tatsumi won it at a New Japan/WCW Supershow and lost it at one of their biggest events, SuperBrawl.

Last but not least, WWE has never shied away from including "unification match" wins as part of wrestlers' resumes. They call Chris Jericho a 2-time WCW Champion when one of those title wins was merged with the WWF title. They also acknowledge RVD as a former Hardcore and European Champion when he merged those with the Intercontinental title. So why don't they recognize Ric Flair's WCW IN World title win? It's just such an odd exemption.

That's why I believe Ric Flair is a 19-time World Champion. Those three world title wins just can't be discounted in my opinion. Although the rest seem a bit shady, those 3 are hard to argue against.

So what do you guys think? Do you agree with my count or do you prefer WWE's? Discuss!

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

The matches have to be recognized as OFFICIAL title changes. The one's underlined weren't recognized as title changes for various reasons. Flair once said in an interview he's actually a 22 time champion or something like that. Most of those finishes are things that 'didn't happen' or a "Dusty finish" was involved.

So the count should be whatever Ric Flair wants to recognize publicly. In this case, it's 16 times. I'm sure if Flair wanted to be known for more, he would have made a bigger deal out of it. Also, it doesn't change his place in wrestling lore. I'm fine with what the WWE says.

 

[NegativeFeedback]

The matches have to be recognized as OFFICIAL title changes. The one's underlined weren't recognized as title changes for various reasons. Flair once said in an interview he's actually a 22 time champion or something like that. Most of those finishes are things that 'didn't happen' or a "Dusty finish" was involved.

So the count should be whatever Ric Flair wants to recognize publicly. In this case, it's 16 times. I'm sure if Flair wanted to be known for more, he would have made a bigger deal out of it. Also, it doesn't change his place in wrestling lore. I'm fine with what the WWE says.

I agree with what you're saying. They need to be officially recognized, and that's why I don't think #2, #9 and #20 count as they were all pretty much "Dusty finishes", as well as #3, #4 and #5 which were local title changes that were done for the local crowds and then reversed immediately after.

But #7, #14 and #21 seem pretty official to me. Especially #21 where Flair won the International World title and merged it with the WCW title. That has never been disputed by anyone. I don't get why WWE doesn't count it. I thought it might be that they just don't recognize the title itself, but they've added it to Rick Rude's bio on their website so obviously it's not a problem with the title.

#7 probably has the weakest claim to being "official", but I remember the NWA advertising Harley Race as an 8-time NWA Champion so they obviously must have recognized the reign at some point.

And with #14, Ric Flair won the title at freaking SuperBrawl. How more official can it get?

 

[Jack-Hammer]

The matches that take place have to be recognized by the controlling body as "official". The NWA doesn't recognize Flair's losses to many wrestlers, some due to storylines & some due to Flair simply putting over wrestlers in front of their home crowds. The WWE can't legitimately recognize those reigns & title changes even if they wanted to because the NWA WHC isn't the property of WWE.

Generally speaking, it's kind of accepted that Flair is seen as a 22 time World Champion, though it's kind of murky. For instance, WCW created the "WCW International" World Heavyweight Championship after the break from the NWA and with Flair initially leaving the NWA for the WWF while taking the Big Gold Belt with him. The National Wrestling Alliance officially lists Flair as a 10 time NWA World Heavyweight Champion so, from a technical standpoint, that's what Flair is. Since WWE officially owns WCW and all things related to it, they recognize 6 of Flair's 7 runs with the WCW WHC and the 2 runs with the WWF Championship in the early 90s. The WWE themselves recognize 8 NWA runs, 6 WCW runs and 2 WWF runs for a total of 16 World Championship reigns.

Flair himself, outside of WWE, has referred to himself as a 16 time World Champion. I remember hearing him say it several times while he was signed to TNA. So if Flair himself only counts 16, then that's good enough for me.

 

[Papa Pillman]

I will refer to what the WWE considers official reigns since they are now the company that possesses much of the lineage. And also what PWI considers official since they are the most credible publication on these matters. It also so happens that the WWE and PWI hold the same official opinions on these reigns, and both consider Flair a 16-time champ...

I agree with what you're saying. They need to be officially recognized, and that's why I don't think #2, #9 and #20 count as they were all pretty much "Dusty finishes", as well as #3, #4 and #5 which were local title changes that were done for the local crowds and then reversed immediately after.

The Harley Race title change that you have numbered as "7" is basically the same as the other international changes. At the time the NWA didn't plan to recognize the swap as official and they were done for the benefit of the Singapore and New Zeland crowds. The NWA would later recognize them, but like the early '83 changes, the WWE/PWI never recognized the swap as official.

Especially #21 where Flair won the International World title and merged it with the WCW title. That has never been disputed by anyone. I don't get why WWE doesn't count it. I thought it might be that they just don't recognize the title itself, but they've added it to Rick Rude's bio on their website so obviously it's not a problem with the title.

The problem with this "unification" is that the WWE/PWI don't recognize the WCW Int'l World Title as a true World title. Basically the WCW had moved on with its world championship when Flair left, and although Flair still had the physical belt NWA had also stripped him upon his WWF run, so while Flair returned with the physical belt, it had no true title significance and WCW basically "made up" a title to accomodate it and give it the appearance of still holding a World title status that isn't officially recognized. Therefore Flair's winning it back to unify it isn't considered an added title win. And the same publications don't recognize Rude's run as official either. It's not the title change in question, it's the legitimacy of the title itself.

And with #14, Ric Flair won the title at freaking SuperBrawl. How more official can it get?

This simply comes down to whether or not you recognize Flair as a double champion. The WCW started calling Flair its champion seperate from addressing him as NWA champion, but he continued to hold the same single title. The WWE/PWI considers this semantics, not proof of Flair being a double champ.

 

[The Butcher]

I always try to prescribe to the first rule of pro wrestling: it's a work.

So if Flair says 16, and WWE says 16, then who am I to argue? It could actually be zero. Muhammad Hassan could actually be an Italian guy named Mark Copani. Doesn't matter. For the sake of my enjoyment, because I'm in on the con, Ric Flair is a 16-time World Champion. It's just simpler this way.

 

[NegativeFeedback]

The Harley Race title change that you have numbered as "7" is basically the same as the other international changes. At the time the NWA didn't plan to recognize the swap as official and they were done for the benefit of the Singapore and New Zeland crowds. The NWA would later recognize them, but like the early '83 changes, the WWE/PWI never recognized the swap as official.

I could agree with this, if it wasn't for the NWA retroactively recognizing the reign. I just wonder why WWE doesn't decide to count it as well. What's so bad about this reign that they don't want to count it?

The problem with this "unification" is that the WWE/PWI don't recognize the WCW Int'l World Title as a true World title.... WCW basically "made up" a title to accomodate it and give it the appearance of still holding a World title status that isn't officially recognized. Therefore Flair's winning it back to unify it isn't considered an added title win.... It's not the title change in question, it's the legitimacy of the title itself.

But WWE recognizes Rude's reigns as World Champ according to his bio. If the title is good enough to count for one Rick, why not the other?

This simply comes down to whether or not you recognize Flair as a double champion. The WCW started calling Flair its champion seperate from addressing him as NWA champion, but he continued to hold the same single title. The WWE/PWI considers this semantics, not proof of Flair being a double champ.

Sorry, I made a mistake there. I was referring to #15, not #14. So it's not a matter of being a double champion or not. I don't consider him a double champion. It's a matter of recognizing that he lost the NWA/WCW title to Tatsumi Fujinami in Japan and won it back at SuperBrawl.

And it wasn't like Harley Race or Jack Veneno's title wins at house shows. It was one of the biggest events of the year. How could anyone dispute that this title win was official?

 

[Papa Pillman]

Sorry, I made a mistake there. I was referring to #15, not #14. So it's not a matter of being a double champion or not. I don't consider him a double champion. It's a matter of recognizing that he lost the NWA/WCW title to Tatsumi Fujinami in Japan and won it back at SuperBrawl.

And it wasn't like Harley Race or Jack Veneno's title wins at house shows. It was one of the biggest events of the year. How could anyone dispute that this title win was official?

It does come down to him being a double champion still. At the point of WCW referring to Flair seperately as the WCW champion, the official count from the WWE recognizes him as WCW champion. WCW never counted the Fujinami switch as official. They believe the match should have ended in a DQ. Therefore the only title that is officially recognized as changing hands was the "NWA" title. The WWE owns and recognizes the WCW lineage and ignores the NWA's official ruling (which as Jack-Hammer pointed out they do not control) on that title swap. So in the WWE's eyes Flair's reign went uninterupted, and the win against Fujinama is recognized only as a successful WCW title defense. I know it's confusing, but that is how the rulings are interpreted.

 

[lowandmighty]

I've heard Flair mention other belts from other countries and claim those are world championships too and in his mind he's many times more a world champion than 16.

In my opinion just going by the list the OP posted then flair is a 26 time champion. In wrestling if you've been awarded the belt then you're the champion no matter how you got it. Its always there in history.

 

[FlairFan2003]

Flair's Official Title Lineage Runs Like This

NWA Title: Sept 1981 vs Dusty Rhodes
NWA Title: Starrcade 83 vs Harley Race
The "Singapore Title Swap" is not mentioned

NWA Title: May 1984 vs Kerry Von Erich
NWA Title: Aug 1986 vs Dusty Rhodes
NWA Title: Starrcade 87 vs Ron Garvin
NWA Title: May 1989, WrestleWar PPV vs Ricky Steamboat.
WCW Title: Jan 1991 vs Sting

Those are the first official 7 title reigns, Flair was repeatedly referred to as a 7 tme champion on WCW TV and in PWI at this time

WCW never recognized the Tokyo Dome incident with Fujinami as a title change. There is some confusion because of the old NWA Board Of Directors was still around but really hadnt had much influence over the title since around 1986 or so, even before Turner Broadcasting purchased the wrestling assets of Jim Crockett Promotions. At this point the Turner owned company, basically with all the talent, etc that JCP promoted as the NWA, re christened themselves WCW and the NWA Board had no relevance over the championship. The idea that Fujinami won the NWA Title and not the WCW Title is confusing, WCW & WWE never recognized it as such as for all intents and purposes what was known previoulsy as NWA was now WCW, Flair was champ, the title did not switch in Japan. Therefore his SuperBrawl win vs Fujinami later in the year was just a successfull title defense.

Jan 1992: WWE Title Royal Rumble
Sept 1992: WWE Title vs Randy Savage

At this point PWI was referring to Flair as a 9 Time Champion. When he returned to WCW in 1993 he was referenced as a 9 Time Champion on TV.

July 1993: Great American Bash PPV, NWA Title vs Barry Whyndam

Now it gets confusing. The NWA did separate itself as separate entity from Turner Broadcasting around the time Flair left for WWE. The were a completely separate, functioning, organization. In 1993, WCW began co promoting with them, giving them air time on WCW TV and allowing WCW roster talent to compete for NWA Titles. WCW & PWI recognized this win as a World Title Win, although Im not sure at this point what was left standing as a separate NWA was really worthy of such status.

Starrcade 93: WCW Title vs Vader: WCW universally recognizes Flair as 11 Time Champion on TV. This continues all the way through the build up to Hogan-Flair at Bash At The Beach 94

The SuperBrawl "double pin" situation with Steamboat is never recognized as a break in the title lineage, een though Flair famously tells WCW Commissioner Nick Bockwinkle to "hold the belt" until he pins Steamboat clean to end the controversy. After Flair cleanly pins Steamboat in the re match WCW continues to refer to him as a 11 time champion.

Around the time Flair lost the NWA Title to Rick Rude, the NWA pulled out of it's co promoional agreement with WCW. Rather than just ignore the title it was re christened the WCW International Title. Rude, Vader, & STing would feud over it during the next few months although it seemed silly to essentially have two World Champions in one company. When Flair beats Sting at Clash Of Champions (June 1994) and unifies the titles he is not credited with an additional title reign.

WCW Title: Starrcade 95 vs Randy Savage
WCW Title: SuperBrawl 96 PPV vs Randy Savage - Flair is recognized on WCW TV as 13 Time Champion

WCW treatment of the title lineage gets hazy here during the early days of the Nitro era. They stop recognizing Flair's two WWE Title wins and for awhile have to recognize The SIngapore Title Switch and Tokyo Dome/Fujinami angle as title changes in order to keep Flair's designation on TV as a 13 Time Champion. This was done to lessen the importance of WWE.

WCW Title: Uncensored PPV vs Hulk Hogan - WCW refers to Flair as a 14 Time champion, but it isnt clear how they view the lineage. PWI also sees Flair as a 14 Time Champ, but that includes two WWE Titles and ignores Singapore & Fujinami.

WCW Title: May 2000, vs Jeff Jarrett: Flair is referred to as 15 Time Champion on WCW TV. ARound this time WCW gets hazy again about the lineage, starting to go back and take the PWI line that SIgapore & Fujinami are not title switches.

WCW Title: Kevin Nash relinquishes belt - May 2000: The Title history got crazy in general during the Vince Russo days. Flair is alternately treated as a 15 (reign not interrupted), 16, or 14 Time Champion on WCW TV over the next several months.

PWI and WWE recognize him being stripped of the title by Russo as ending Reign #15 and Nash relinquishing the title as Reign #16. However, they do not recognize any break in the title lineage due to Singapore or Fujinami. Excluding those two incidents and continuing with WCW assertion that Reign 11 never ended during the Steamboat controversy, PWI & WWE have Flair with 14 NWA/WCW Titles (including the 93 win oer Whyndam) and two WWE Titles giving him his official Pro Wrestling Record 16 Title Wins.

 

[FlairFan2003]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Papa Pillman

The problem with this "unification" is that the WWE/PWI don't recognize the WCW Int'l World Title as a true World title.... WCW basically "made up" a title to accomodate it and give it the appearance of still holding a World title status that isn't officially recognized. Therefore Flair's winning it back to unify it isn't considered an added title win.... It's not the title change in question, it's the legitimacy of the title itself.


It is true that WCW was treating the International Title like a World Title. However, no one seems to see unifying two titles as creating an extra reign. even though the Unification was important. I do not believe WWE credits Triple H with an IC Title reign when he unified the IC & World Titles by beating Kane years ago. Essentially WCW & PWI and later WWE all viewed this the same way, Flair came in WCW Champ and left WCW Champ, reign uninterrupted. Since the International Title ceased to exist due to the unification there really couldnt be a reign at all, it was no longer a title and could not be defended.

It is true that prior to the Unification, wrestlers like Rude & Sting who held the International Title were given World Title Status.

 

[NegativeFeedback]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Papa Pillman

The problem with this "unification" is that the WWE/PWI don't recognize the WCW Int'l World Title as a true World title.... WCW basically "made up" a title to accomodate it and give it the appearance of still holding a World title status that isn't officially recognized. Therefore Flair's winning it back to unify it isn't considered an added title win.... It's not the title change in question, it's the legitimacy of the title itself.


It is true that WCW was treating the International Title like a World Title. However, no one seems to see unifying two titles as creating an extra reign. even though the Unification was important. I do not believe WWE credits Triple H with an IC Title reign when he unified the IC & World Titles by beating Kane years ago. Essentially WCW & PWI and later WWE all viewed this the same way, Flair came in WCW Champ and left WCW Champ, reign uninterrupted. Since the International Title ceased to exist due to the unification there really couldnt be a reign at all, it was no longer a title and could not be defended.

It is true that prior to the Unification, wrestlers like Rude & Sting who held the International Title were given World Title Status.

WWE does recognize Triple H's fifth IC title win when he unified it with the World title. In fact, they think he's still holding the IC title today--> http://www.wwe.com/classics/titlehistory/intercontinental/322732

 

[FlairFan2003]

WWE does recognize Triple H's fifth IC title win when he unified it with the World title. In fact, they think he's still holding the IC title today--> http://www.wwe.com/classics/titlehistory/intercontinental/322732

I honestly would have to check WWE to see if in fact HHH was credited with an IC Title reign during the angle with Kane that unified the titles. I didnt think he was but I could be wrong.

One of the reasons some people view Flair with upwards of 20 Title wins is because early in his career as champ, prior to 1986, Flair would take extensive bookings internationally as well as in other US promotions. By his own account in his early days as NWA champ he worked on a 3 weeks on, 2 weeks off sechedule. During his two weeks off he took independent bookings in Japan, Singapore, New Zealand, and South America. Domestically he would occassionally take bookings in the AWA as a favor to owner Verne Gagne, who originally trained him, and in Hawaii where he would appear in the promotion run by The Rock's family.

It was common when Flair went outside the US to do "Title Swaps" where he would come to town for a match with the local promotion's top fan favorite, lose the title in a "Rocky" like moment, then stay long enough for promoters to quickly sell "re match", at which point Flair would prevail. The local wrestler still got a huge boast in his home promotion because he went toe to toe with great American Wrestling Champion Ric Flair. Flair of course was paid well, crowds were big, and the cities were open to Flair returning (although he couldnt book Title Swaps in the same city over and over, having lost once before he could always draw in his return with fans salivating over the possibility he might lose again).

While this may have been a nice way to elevate local wrestlers and ensure nice paydays for Flair that was not sanctioned by The NWA or Jim Crockett Promotions, therefore none of those title changes were ever recognized. Flair did this alot when he was in South America or Dominican Republic where the wrestling news was not followed in the US. In Japan, a much larger venue for pro wrestling, there was more media attention paid to his visits and some Japanese match results were covered by wrestling publications in the US, especially if they featured major US wrestling stars. In Japan Flair mostly stayed with his script as touring champion of the NWA, allow the local wrestler a great match, but either survive in a draw or win a squeaker in the end to retain the NWA Title. Flair couldnt afford to book a title swap in Japan and have word make it back in the US press or the NWA would have been furious. Sometimes in Japan he would fight other US wrestlers as well, such as his famous Best Of Three Falls Match vs Kerry Von Erich (where the NWA did sanction a title change) or his Title vs Title Match with AWA Champ Rick Martel in 1985 (ended in an hour long draw).

The whole thing stopped altogether in 1986 when Jim Crockett increased Flair's NWA workload and restricted his ability to work outside the US and outside the purview of the NWA. He still made appearances in Japan which were very lucrative for US wrestlers but his match finishes were subject to approval by the NWA and Jim Crockett. Appearances in other international countries largely ceased at this time and Flair was expressly forbidden from appearing with the AWA or any other percieved competitor of the NWA.

 

[NegativeFeedback]

I honestly would have to check WWE to see if in fact HHH was credited with an IC Title reign during the angle with Kane that unified the titles. I didnt think he was but I could be wrong.

Dude, I included a link. He's credited with the IC title reign.

 

[jason497]

Flair's Official Title Lineage Runs Like This

NWA Title: Sept 1981 vs Dusty Rhodes
NWA Title: Starrcade 83 vs Harley Race
The "Singapore Title Swap" is not mentioned

NWA Title: May 1984 vs Kerry Von Erich
NWA Title: Aug 1986 vs Dusty Rhodes
NWA Title: Starrcade 87 vs Ron Garvin
NWA Title: May 1989, WrestleWar PPV vs Ricky Steamboat.
WCW Title: Jan 1991 vs Sting

Those are the first official 7 title reigns, Flair was repeatedly referred to as a 7 tme champion on WCW TV and in PWI at this time

WCW never recognized the Tokyo Dome incident with Fujinami as a title change. There is some confusion because of the old NWA Board Of Directors was still around but really hadnt had much influence over the title since around 1986 or so, even before Turner Broadcasting purchased the wrestling assets of Jim Crockett Promotions. At this point the Turner owned company, basically with all the talent, etc that JCP promoted as the NWA, re christened themselves WCW and the NWA Board had no relevance over the championship. The idea that Fujinami won the NWA Title and not the WCW Title is confusing, WCW & WWE never recognized it as such as for all intents and purposes what was known previoulsy as NWA was now WCW, Flair was champ, the title did not switch in Japan. Therefore his SuperBrawl win vs Fujinami later in the year was just a successfull title defense.

Jan 1992: WWE Title Royal Rumble
Sept 1992: WWE Title vs Randy Savage

At this point PWI was referring to Flair as a 9 Time Champion. When he returned to WCW in 1993 he was referenced as a 9 Time Champion on TV.

July 1993: Great American Bash PPV, NWA Title vs Barry Whyndam

Now it gets confusing. The NWA did separate itself as separate entity from Turner Broadcasting around the time Flair left for WWE. The were a completely separate, functioning, organization. In 1993, WCW began co promoting with them, giving them air time on WCW TV and allowing WCW roster talent to compete for NWA Titles. WCW & PWI recognized this win as a World Title Win, although Im not sure at this point what was left standing as a separate NWA was really worthy of such status.

Starrcade 93: WCW Title vs Vader: WCW universally recognizes Flair as 11 Time Champion on TV. This continues all the way through the build up to Hogan-Flair at Bash At The Beach 94

The SuperBrawl "double pin" situation with Steamboat is never recognized as a break in the title lineage, een though Flair famously tells WCW Commissioner Nick Bockwinkle to "hold the belt" until he pins Steamboat clean to end the controversy. After Flair cleanly pins Steamboat in the re match WCW continues to refer to him as a 11 time champion.

Around the time Flair lost the NWA Title to Rick Rude, the NWA pulled out of it's co promoional agreement with WCW. Rather than just ignore the title it was re christened the WCW International Title. Rude, Vader, & STing would feud over it during the next few months although it seemed silly to essentially have two World Champions in one company. When Flair beats Sting at Clash Of Champions (June 1994) and unifies the titles he is not credited with an additional title reign.

WCW Title: Starrcade 95 vs Randy Savage
WCW Title: SuperBrawl 96 PPV vs Randy Savage - Flair is recognized on WCW TV as 13 Time Champion

WCW treatment of the title lineage gets hazy here during the early days of the Nitro era. They stop recognizing Flair's two WWE Title wins and for awhile have to recognize The SIngapore Title Switch and Tokyo Dome/Fujinami angle as title changes in order to keep Flair's designation on TV as a 13 Time Champion. This was done to lessen the importance of WWE.

WCW Title: Uncensored PPV vs Hulk Hogan - WCW refers to Flair as a 14 Time champion, but it isnt clear how they view the lineage. PWI also sees Flair as a 14 Time Champ, but that includes two WWE Titles and ignores Singapore & Fujinami.

WCW Title: May 2000, vs Jeff Jarrett: Flair is referred to as 15 Time Champion on WCW TV. ARound this time WCW gets hazy again about the lineage, starting to go back and take the PWI line that SIgapore & Fujinami are not title switches.

WCW Title: Kevin Nash relinquishes belt - May 2000: The Title history got crazy in general during the Vince Russo days. Flair is alternately treated as a 15 (reign not interrupted), 16, or 14 Time Champion on WCW TV over the next several months.

PWI and WWE recognize him being stripped of the title by Russo as ending Reign #15 and Nash relinquishing the title as Reign #16. However, they do not recognize any break in the title lineage due to Singapore or Fujinami. Excluding those two incidents and continuing with WCW assertion that Reign 11 never ended during the Steamboat controversy, PWI & WWE have Flair with 14 NWA/WCW Titles (including the 93 win oer Whyndam) and two WWE Titles giving him his official Pro Wrestling Record 16 Title Wins.

I've been researching and I consider Flair a 20 time champion.

The first 7 title reigns you mention. The singapore swap might not have been mentioned (I wasn't even alive then so I'll take your word for it lol), but maybe that was for WCW storyline purposes as NWA does recognize it today, so I'll recognize it. WWE doesn't recognize the title swaps for Flair but they recognize them for Race as he's billed an 8 time champion there. So I'll count it in mine as his 8th.


Also, from what I've read he was pretty much declared the first ever WCW champion after defeating Sting in 1991, making him a dual champion and giving him an extra reign. When he went to WWF there were 2 seperate champions crowned, pretty much backing this up, along with the Fujinami controversy. I'll count the first ever WCW title reign as his 9th.


The Fujinami situation, from what I understand it was said the decision was later reversed to an over the top rope DQ so Flair kept the WCW title and Fujinami was considered the NWA Champion only in Japan. The titles were supposedly unified at Superbawl but Fujinami was only mentioned as IWGP Champion there. Considering there was only 1 belt representing the NWA/WCW belts, and Flair carried it, this one is sketchy. Did Fujinami ever defend the NWA title before Superbrawl? If he did, that would add some legitimacy to his reign but I won't count it. I read they only added this reign after Flair returned from WWF to give him the higher count without counting the WWF belt.


That makes him a 9 time champion, plus the two WWF title wins made him an 11 time champion.

He beats Windham for the NWA belt, making him a 12 time champion. He's stripped of the NWA title, but recognized as International Champion for the beginning of September (reign #13) until he loses to Rude.

The Steamboat match is tricky. Flair was not stripped, he tells Bockwinkle to hold the belt until he beats Steamboat like you said. When he wins the rematch, they originally call him a 12 time champion but after that he is referred to as an 11 time champion again. WWE doesn't count this, WCW wasn't counting this, I don't see why I should count the reign then.

Flair unifies the International title with the WCW title, giving him a 14th reign.

The other 6 WCW reigns are undisputable, so that gives him 20 imo. 9 NWA, 2 International, 7 WCW, 2 WWF.

Also on the question of unification, I think almost always it is shown as an extra reign.

As for the legitimacy of the International title as a World Title, I think it was treated as such and wrestled for by World title caliber wrestlers, so why not? WWE has 2 world titles and for awhile there had 3.