Randy Orton: Viper or Legend Killer?

[Takerfan93]

As we have all seen over the past 2 years, Randy Orton has changed his character from the cocky brash third generation superstar to this cold, kind of demented (can't think of another word) guy.

I know most people love what he is doing right now, but I for one do not, I much preffered his old persona of the Legend Killer where he was the arrogant third generation superstar, I thought it had much more life in it. His current persona I find very boring compared to that. He is so much more slow and quiet (not in the ring, in his general movement). I know it is all part of his character but I just think it seems like a lifeless one. I loved it when he would walk to the ring looking as is to say "I'm the best" and the taunt in the corner of the ring. But now all he does is just walk slowly to ring without changing his expression and then he just stands on the ropes in the corner. I definately liked his old persona better, it just had so much more personality.

I know some might say it wouldn't suit him now because he is not "the young new guy" anymore, but I think it could have been adapted rather than gotten rid of completely.

What are others' opinions on this? Viper or Legend Killer?

 

[WrestlingMark84]

Viper..he's at the highest point he's ever been popularity wise..he's more over than Cena and he gets compared to the higest selling Wwe SUperstar of all time Stone Cold Steve Austin which is not bad by any means...Definetly the Viper..

 

[Ferbian]

I do agree, I absolutely loved the legend killer persona that Randy Orton had, and it had it's great moments, the sad thing is that he slowly began running out of legends as far as I know, can't really remember how many he put down, but to say the least, it could, and would eventually run out of potential things to "kill".

The Viper character on the other hand, I feel it's awesome, and definitely my favorite, due to the whole methodical mean streak that the persona just shines of, and I feel the move to a tweener persona is the greatest move WWE could've ever made with it, due to the fact that while it functions perfectly as a heel, the persona shouldn't be limited to who it strikes and preys on.

No matter the persona really, Randy is, and will continue to be an absolute great superstar, and a future legend of the business, he has accomplished a lot through both gimmicks, and I have to admit I feel that the legend killer one may very well have suited for the sake of building his legitimacy, although I'm not sure, but it could easily appear like that.

The Viper gimmick on the other hand, was in my opinion, for when he was established properly, we've been seeing it ever since the emergence of "the Age of Orton" which is another aspect of the viper character that I absolutely liked.

As I said, both gimmicks is and were absolutely great, but I feel that the Viper one fits Randy better, his whole character has always to me come off as somewhat of a guy with a very very large means streak who does indeed prey on his opponents, the legend killer did not do that, not in the same way to say the least.

The Viper is my choice.

 

[maar130]

The Viper, why? because it is the evolution of the Legend Killer.

The Legend Killer serve its purpose, and he beat everyone there was to beat, including Taker in a devious way, he lost the feud but he won a battle here and there, the only he neve defeated was Hogan but that was when the Legend Killer was at is lowest trying to gain momentum again.

So he had to evlove to something else and after RKO and the Viper is that evolution, that Viper is the one that has gathered more titles to Randy and a main event spot in the WWE.

Personally I never really liked the Legend Killer gimmick and yes the VIper is a little boring, but now this Viper is fulled with energy and is not as methodical as he once was, now as a face he takes things on a rush of energy instead of his pace being completely slow, he has changed gears but the escense is the same.

Even in the way pounds the mat you notice that is not methodical as it used to be, but now is on a rush of energy and that is what puts people going for him, is like when Shawn tuned up the band, that is the purpose of that pounding now.

So even though I don't like Randy that much, his Viper character in my view is better thn the Legend Killer one.

 

[Spidey Revivey]

Viper..he's at the highest point he's ever been popularity wise..he's more over than Cena and he gets compared to the higest selling Wwe SUperstar of all time Stone Cold Steve Austin which is not bad by any means...Definetly the Viper..

I consider it very bad for a guy to be compared by another superstar when they are trying to forge their own path. That's why I can't stand it when people compare John Cena to either The Rock or Hulk Hogan; there is no comparison Cena is Cena and The Rock was The Rock. They all bring something different to the plate.

As for which one I prefer, it's The Legend Killer clearly. He recieved huge pops from the crowd when he started doing his "Greek statue" pose. He wasn't being compared to anyone (ex. Stone Cold), and he was full of life and energy.

The Viper, being compared so much to The Texas Rattlesnake, will be considered a rip-off sometime in the future I assure you. The proverbial badass that stares at people, wiggles his body like a snake, pounds his fists to the mat (and gets legitimately injured doing just that), and that's pretty much it. Now compare that to Legend Killer:

1. The gimmick requires taking out people that impacted the business (The Rock, Bret Hart, Stone Cold {a name dropper}, etc). In turn adding to his credibility.

2. His statue pose was well-over. (and didn't leave him injured.)

3. His arrogance was well-over. (and gave him emotions.)

4. To me, his mic skills were a LOT better than they are now.

5. He was a straight heel or face; that's a plus to me because then you knew if he is to deserve cheers or not.

The only thing I like about The Viper is the fact it is a different approach for Randy Orton. He needed a reboot but I still think his Legend Killer monicker was better than any snake he could've tried to imitate...

 

[The Con Volt]

Dude, the Viper. It's not even close. The best way I can describe it is like this. The Legend Killer Randy Orton was a good enough character. He got himself over in record breaking time and became the youngest WWE champion of all time. But the Viper Randy Orton is not only in my opinion, the best heel character of all time, but a character that despite it's downright sinister connotations, was able to completely adapt into the most over face character in the company. And all he had to do was talk less! Which works for him. Don't get me wrong, Orton can deliver a good enough monologue when he has to, but he's by no means to most skilled mic worker.

But the differences in the Legend Killer and the Viper go much deeper than just character traits. The Legend Killer Randy Orton was, how do I put this kindly...fat. But the Viper is lean, toned, and has a way better haircut. lol

 

[DERO1979]

Randy Orton sucks. Why exactly is he the Legend Killer? What legends has he exactly beaten? The Undertaker? No. Hogan? No. Triple H on the big stage? No. At the time it probably seemed like a cool name but he's far from a Legend Killer. I don't understand why everyone thinks this guy is so great. In a GOOD era of wrestling, saaaay the 90's he'd be in the mid card like BA Billy Gunn. But in this ridiculous, Hornswoggle, diluted era of wrestling where we are force fed the same 5 guys week after week, year after year he's a top guy. Put some legit people around him and he'd fade into the background. He's no Hogan, he's no Rock, he's no Austin, he's no HBK, he's no Triple H (whom I don't even like) he's no Flair, he's no Undertaker, he's no Sting, etc. What exactly is so good about him? I DON'T get it.

 

[WrestlingMark84]

I consider it very bad for a guy to be compared by another superstar when they are trying to forge their own path. That's why I can't stand it when people compare John Cena to either The Rock or Hulk Hogan; there is no comparison Cena is Cena and The Rock was The Rock. They all bring something different to the plate.

As for which one I prefer, it's The Legend Killer clearly. He recieved huge pops from the crowd when he started doing his "Greek statue" pose. He wasn't being compared to anyone (ex. Stone Cold), and he was full of life and energy.

The Viper, being compared so much to The Texas Rattlesnake, will be considered a rip-off sometime in the future I assure you. The proverbial badass that stares at people, wiggles his body like a snake, pounds his fists to the mat (and gets legitimately injured doing just that), and that's pretty much it. Now compare that to Legend Killer:

1. The gimmick requires taking out people that impacted the business (The Rock, Bret Hart, Stone Cold {a name dropper}, etc). In turn adding to his credibility.

2. His statue pose was well-over. (and didn't leave him injured.)

3. His arrogance was well-over. (and gave him emotions.)

4. To me, his mic skills were a LOT better than they are now.

5. He was a straight heel or face; that's a plus to me because then you knew if he is to deserve cheers or not.

The only thing I like about The Viper is the fact it is a different approach for Randy Orton. He needed a reboot but I still think his Legend Killer monicker was better than any snake he could've tried to imitate...

If the legend killer was better he would have been at the top of the WWE like he is now and he wasn't like another person already stated really he didnt beat any legends so the name was cool yes but he didnt have as much popularity or edge as he does now...it's like being called a pimp but u have no hoes..the legend killer that doesnt kill legends right..in the future it may not be a bad thing being compared to Austin it may be who's to say? time will tell...people may hate Kobe bryant compared to Michael Jordon Brock to goldberg,carlito to Scott hall so on sor forth...if u look at it Ortons career mirrored the Rocks up until now to an extent... came in as a face everyone didnt like,got injured came back as a heel,joined a group..became champion in that group..was stale as a goodie good turned to being heel once more (But the Rock was awesome good or bad)..if u ask me Orton is best being a Tweener and being the Viper is not Cena Corny good and u like him because he'll attack anyone good or bad..he's badd ass

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

The Viper is far better. The Legend Killer was great, but that "cocky" heel role is crowded. Miz, DiBiase, Swagger, Drew McIntyre, and even Sheamus (to some extent). Orton needed something different. Something that made his character stand all on it's own.

The Viper is sadistic and calculating. He moves slowly because he isn't just acting on instinct, he always has a plan. He's being cheered because he's something different. The Legend Killer had no chance of getting over with the fans.

Was it his plan to get over with the fans? No. But it shows that there is a lack of variety in today's wrestlers. Orton brought something different, something entertaining to the table (in terms of his character). The character doesn't need to be the Leged Killer anymore, because he is a veteran now. He is a proven guy. Now, it's his time to dominate, and that is what this character is all about.

Personally, I like the characters patience. He is patient and methodical, and knows exactly what he wants to do. No one is cheering this guy for doing "the right thing." They are cheering him because he is bringing something fresh to the market. He's doing heelish things to anyone and everyone in his path, and just like when the fans loved Steve Austin for it, that has now shifted to Randy Orton. The crowd was looking for a tweener. They wanted a guy who rode that fence between good and evil, and Orton has given that to them.

It's not that the Legend Killer wasn't a good gimmick, but that time is over with. He has progressed in every way as a pro wrestler since that gimmick, so I'm not sure how I could say that was a better gimmick than the Viper. He's so much better than he was 5 years ago, so I'm not sure how that gimmick could have been better than his current one.

 

[Spidey Revivey]

I have said my peice on Orton already, but I couldn't help but look at this post and shudder.

Randy Orton sucks. Why exactly is he the Legend Killer? What legends has he exactly beaten?

He was The Legend Killer because his gimmick was meant to make himself look good by beating, well, legends...

ex. The Undertaker, Mick Foley, Ric Flair, etc

The Undertaker? No. Hogan? No. Triple H on the big stage? No. At the time it probably seemed like a cool name but he's far from a Legend Killer

Please check up your history before talking out of your ass. He did in fact beat The Undertaker. It was in a Double Casket Match along with his father Bob Orton. And no he didn't get the win against HHH at 'Mania but that doesn't mean shit because he beat him countless other times.

I don't understand why everyone thinks this guy is so great. In a GOOD era of wrestling, saaaay the 90's he'd be in the mid card like BA Billy Gunn.

How would you know where he would fit in the past? Redundant.

But in this ridiculous, Hornswoggle, diluted era of wrestling where we are force fed the same 5 guys week after week, year after year he's a top guy.

Hornswoggle diluted? Give the guy a break; he is barely on for 5 fuckin minutes a week. That's long enough to take a shit which you seem to be full of.

Put some legit people around him and he'd fade into the background. He's no Hogan, he's no Rock, he's no Austin, he's no HBK, he's no Triple H (whom I don't even like) he's no Flair, he's no Undertaker, he's no Sting, etc. What exactly is so good about him? I DON'T get it.

Wow you make the same agreement yet make it arguementative. OF COURSE HE IS NO ROCK OR HBK OR ANY OF THOSE. He is Randy Orton, which is a good thing because just like I said in my post here he needs to be his own wrestler. You make it sound like he should be. I consider myself nostlagic, but the past is the past; we don't live in The Attitude Era anymore. Time to move on.

Either you havent been watching wrestling in years and decided to get on this forum to look stupid or you legitimately hate the guy for no apparent reason. Starting to think the first. This thread is about which of his gimmicks did we like the most; not an anti-Orton bashing thread. GTFO.

If the legend killer was better he would have been at the top of the WWE like he is now and he wasn't like another person already stated really he didnt beat any legends

1. He was a main draw as The Legend Killer before he was The Viper, so yes he was on top of WWE before "The Viper" gimmick kicked in.
2. who is saying he didn't beat any legends? Christ on a cracker he beat: Undertaker, Kamala, The Rock, Mick Foley, Shawn Michaels, Triple H, Ric Flair,etc while holding noticeable feuds with guys like Hulk Hogan, Roddy Piper and spitting on Harley Race. How is that not deserving of a "Legend Killer" monicker? That's cool that most here prefer The Viper, but to say as a Legend Killer he didn't beat any legends is stoo-pid.

 

[mister_b1LL]

Absolutely Viper. Despite my love for Orton as Legend Killer, in the back of my mind I always thought the gimmick meant he would always be a midcarder, despite winning 1 World Title under this gimmick. It wasn't until he evolved to the Viper where I saw that he would stay in the main event forever. This incarnation of the Viper now seems to take both gimmicks and somewhat put together. Instead of always being slow and methodical like the Viper in his early days, he's a little bit faster and more intense, especially when delivering the RKO, which takes me back to when every RKO was a shocking moment under the LK gimmick.

I also love that the Viper is now a tweener. He'd be just taking out any superstar regardless of if he's a heel or face. Takes out Wayne Brady, people start booing. Takes out Edge, people love him again the next second.

One thing I do miss about the Legend Killer is his taunt. I wish he would bring it back. Sure it'd look out of place, but it would look better when that camera does that pan of him when he does his entrance.

 

[TheProfessional]

I was actually thinking about this the other day.

Originally I had come to the conclusion that I preferred the Legend Killer gimmick.
However, now that I think about it, I like the Viper character more.

I don't know if this makes any sense, but I still found him more entertaining as the Legend Killer.
Though, I find his Viper character more fascinating.
I've always been a fan of badasses, who attack anyone and aren't really out to make friends.
And that's what Orton is right now.
Kind of the Lone Wolf.

I just wish he would speak a bit more, and do some entertaining moves during matches.
It's just stomp stomp, DDT, Backbreaker nowadays.
I'd like to see more variety.
And yeah, bring the Taunt back! Camera panning around the Arena while he posed on Turnbuckle looked Awesome.




Oh, and I can't stand Cole calling the Powerslam a Scoop Slam.
Irrelevant, but Orton does the move. And I just had to let that out.

 

[DiscipleofWrestling]

The Viper is far better. The Legend Killer was great, but that "cocky" heel role is crowded. Miz, DiBiase, Swagger, Drew McIntyre, and even Sheamus (to some extent). Orton needed something different. Something that made his character stand all on it's own.

The Viper is sadistic and calculating. He moves slowly because he isn't just acting on instinct, he always has a plan. He's being cheered because he's something different. The Legend Killer had no chance of getting over with the fans.

Was it his plan to get over with the fans? No. But it shows that there is a lack of variety in today's wrestlers. Orton brought something different, something entertaining to the table (in terms of his character). The character doesn't need to be the Leged Killer anymore, because he is a veteran now. He is a proven guy. Now, it's his time to dominate, and that is what this character is all about.

Personally, I like the characters patience. He is patient and methodical, and knows exactly what he wants to do. No one is cheering this guy for doing "the right thing." They are cheering him because he is bringing something fresh to the market. He's doing heelish things to anyone and everyone in his path, and just like when the fans loved Steve Austin for it, that has now shifted to Randy Orton. The crowd was looking for a tweener. They wanted a guy who rode that fence between good and evil, and Orton has given that to them.

It's not that the Legend Killer wasn't a good gimmick, but that time is over with. He has progressed in every way as a pro wrestler since that gimmick, so I'm not sure how I could say that was a better gimmick than the Viper. He's so much better than he was 5 years ago, so I'm not sure how that gimmick could have been better than his current one.

I couldn't agree with the above more. The Viper gimmick is not only an extension of Randy Orton's Legend Killer gimmick; it is a liberation of Randy Orton's ability to perform.

Orton's career has never been better than it has been now thanks to the methodology he's now incorporating in the ring. He almost has a Jake "The Snake" Roberts (I know, another snake reference) quality to him. Orton sells the product more in his face now; he looks like someone who's always plotting, always planning, yet seemingly becomes possessed by his thoughts.

The Legend Killer gimmick served its purpose in the early years of Orton's career. It was a great way to get him over. However, for me, it floundered in 2005 after his failed face turn. The failure of Orton to get over as a face killed a lot of the momentum Randy Orton had at that time. As entertaining as his feud was with The Undertaker in 05 and the Rated RKO gimmick, I still never bought into the Legend Killer gimmick again. Orton's punt across the WWE in 2007 did wonders for his career as it really made him a force again in the company. This, to me, was where the Viper gimmick began. It really flourished in the last few months of 2008 and beginning of 09, but its roots were set in 2007. The Viper gimmick is much more elusive, more disturbing, more unpredictable than the Legend Killer and gives Orton an edge that no one else in WWE currently has.

 

[Twanfusco]

Haha @ dero1979, he's easily in the top three of performers in the business right now, name 5 other guys whose character grabs your attention as well has the ability to tell a story in a match/fued...there's not many. There isn't a better shade of grey character in the business right now or in the past 5 years and a large part of that is down to his execution of the Viper role, he was almost to good a heel as the viper so that would be my pick, I didn't pay much attention to him as the legend killer and while it was interesting at times, it wasn't an original storyline and didn't really give orton much room for expansion, the viper character had many dimensions and he is bearing the fruits of that benefit right now with the tweener role. To compare him to past guys like Austin is understandable but to say the guy couldn't hang with those guys is just hypothetical nonsense, he's possibly the top guy in WWE today and that's all that matters.

 

[RVDgurl]

The Viper.

Orton has had success with whatever gimmick he's worked, and the Legend Killer character was no exception. It served it's purpose, but it really had him boxed in. The Legend Killer gimmick left him no room for growth which in turn would have eventually made him stale.

The Viper gimmick leaves room for expansion and it works as a heel, face or tweener. It's a fresh take on the cockiness of Randy Orton- instead of being brash and in your face, it showcases his maturity by showing us a more poised and quiet confidence.

 

[Ruthless-RKO]

The thing is, how many legends are there left in the WWE??or veterens..you look at the roster and they are all young stars..the legend killer was great and worked very well...it was absolute terrific and he had some amazing matches when he was the legend killer...i'm kinda glad he has moved on, he is one of those characters, you think he's got no friends, he doesn't trust anyone, no one should trust him, he hardly talks...so im gonna call him a silent viper...

If I had to pick one, i would have to go for the Viper...it's a cooler name..

 

[DERO1979]

Uh "Cult of Raven"....What are you an English teacher? I feel like my post has just been critiqued by a professor in college. BTW, you spelt argumentative wrong. There's nothing worse than someone trying to prove a point but they're too stupid to spell. Kamala as a Legend? Don't make me laugh. Do many people remember that Orton beat the Undertaker in a Double Casket MAtch? Doubt it. Maybe dorks like you but most people will remember his match at 'Mania. Ya know, the one he lost. Are that many people going to remember when he beat Triple H on RAW or got a victory at Backlash over him due to outside interference? No. They will remember that he lost at 'Mania. What big match has he won really? And don't give me some BS October PPV in 2005 or his "youngest champion ever!" match 6 years ago.
Just because he held feuds with Hogan doesn't make him a legend. Hell, Bad News Brown and Akeem had feuds with Hogan. Are they legends?
How do I know where he would fit in in another era? I just know.
Hornswoggle is on 5 minutes a week? Yea, and most of the matches on RAw go about 4 minutes. So he's getting more time than 75% of the wrestlers on the roster. You just proved my point dipshit.
Are you really gonna break out Roddy Piper and Harley Race? Guys in their 60's. Flair? Come on dude. If he had beaten a 1992 version if Flair than ok. But now it's just kicking an old man in the head. And I know some stupid ass like you will go back and say "Uhh, uuhhh what about Hogan?! Hogan is 60! He feuded with Orton!" Yea, but he lost. The purpose of me comparing him to guys like Rock, Austin, HBK was not for me to say he needs to be like them. I'm saying he isn't in their league and never will be. You can't build a company around a guy like Randy Orton. He's a compliment to people better than him. He will not transcend the business. He will NOT be a cross over star. That is why they are building the company around Cena.
Maybe this isn't an anti Orton thread. But I just made it one. So go back to your Smackdown vs RAW video game and shut the hell up.

 

[Phenomena1one]

I'm gonna say legend killer, especially during the whole concussion angle right before he won the wwe title, it was his most entertaining moments, and he really needs to be a heel. It kinda went down for me during his wm25 build up with triple h and that whole legacy thing, bring back the old orton.

 

[Takerfan93]

And all he had to do was talk less! Which works for him. Don't get me wrong, Orton can deliver a good enough monologue when he has to, but he's by no means to most skilled mic worker.

But the differences in the Legend Killer and the Viper go much deeper than just character traits. The Legend Killer Randy Orton was, how do I put this kindly...fat. But the Viper is lean, toned, and has a way better haircut. lol

I have always thought his mic work was quite good, I enjoyed it when he was in his previous heel persona before "the Viper", it was much more animated and entertaining than the dull monologues he makes as "the Viper".

As for appearance, it wasn't changed just because his gimmick did, it changed because while he was injured, he lost a lot of weight. This is not just him, it happens to most wrestlers during injury, they lose weight. It happened with Triple H back in 2007 when he returned as well. Besides, Orton was not fat before anyway. And lets be honest, could you really call what he has now a haircut? There's barely any hair left :L Personally I think he looked better when he actually had hair on his head, but his appearance really plays no part in his character at all

 

[TheMadWrestlingFan]

The VIPER period need I say more!!!!!! He is over like a Fat Rat... He is way over when they did the transition of Triple H. If you think back he was that snobish blue blood character....

 

[Dropkicked]

Hey DERO, you might want to quite while your still not ahead because you are coming off pretty amateur right now.

Yes everyone of those wrestlers Raven mentioned are Legends. To insult wrestling fans by saying Flair and Piper aren't legends because they are old shows you must have popped your WWE cherry in the attitude era. Thats a FAIL on your part.

Randy Orton's LK character was very well warranted. He did what he claimed and no one can argue that, especially someone like you who has the most inaccurate statements Ive ever seen on this board.

With your infinite wisdom on the subject, please tell me who you think is better than Orton right now as far as selling a persona / gimmick.

To sum up the posts on this thread is that orton has benefited from choosing the right persona at the right time in his career and most importantly not dwelling on it such as a John Cena. People are tired of Cena because he has been the same thing for so many years. Ugly shirts, same catch phrases, same 5 moves, same everything. Orton keeps it new and interesting unlike Cena who I will bet next week will have some half humorous catch phrase and either end Raw getting his shit whipped or go out looking like Superman. Same thing each time.

So please do us all a favor and stay off these forums untill you grow some hair on your prepubecent WWE watching career.

 

[Dropkicked]

What exactly is so good about him? I DON'T get it.

And you can answer this question by reading pretty much and analyst with a published column / blog who all agree that Orton is the next big thing in wrestling - the next superstar who will hit heights as big as HHH, Austin, Rock, Flair, Hogan, etc...some of which say he will even pass a few of them. All with plenty of explanation why.

 

[The Deadly Viper]

The Viper is much better than the legend killer and i will tell you why. The legend killer was more of a "baby" Orton, one which was still developing, and getting up through the ranks in WWE. This is what he has developed into a psychopath viper thing. He is a great character now and everyone loves him, well except some people.

 

[theBIGdealAndyP]

to answer the question, which gimmic is/was better, id say yeah, he needed the legend killer character in order to become the viper... but i agree with a couple guys who said thats more or less a bad take-off on the rattlesnake austin, austin struck at an instant, so does orton, there both badasses that are neither good nor heel, hell, even the rko is a cheap stunner... personally just RKO w/ evolution was fine with me, but they felt the need to end that... but he takes whatever they throw at him and he makes it work- thats the true sign of a great wrestler...

 

[Spidey Revivey]

Uh "Cult of Raven"....What are you an English teacher? I feel like my post has just been critiqued by a professor in college.

Nope; just someone who is intelligent. Wish I could say the same about you.

BTW, you spelt argumentative wrong. There's nothing worse than someone trying to prove a point but they're too stupid to spell.

Nothing worse then being corrected by the guy who has no clue what he is on about. I make a small grammatical mistake; you made the mistake of posting in this thread.

The thread is about which gimmick was better in our opinion: The Viper or The Legend Killer. You have not chosen either one and steadily bash the superstar this thread is about. You are Off-Topic and a MOD is most likely going to rid the WZ world of you and your opinionated comments.

Kamala as a Legend? Don't make me laugh

I take it you don't have a clue what a legend is. They are someone who made a difference in their field of expertise- this guy is still widely known (oh shit, you know him too wow) and was popular in the 90s in his feuds against big-Main top dogs like...*gasp* The Undertaker. Make you laugh do your research before coming at me, kid.

Do many people remember that Orton beat the Undertaker in a Double Casket MAtch? Doubt it

Do I give a shit if people remember Waterloo? No. But that doesn't mean it didn't happen now does it? We can go all night like this and my "professor" attitude will trump your schoolboy self any day.

Maybe dorks like you but most people will remember his match at 'Mania. Ya know, the one he lost. Are that many people going to remember when he beat Triple H on RAW or got a victory at Backlash over him due to outside interference? No. They will remember that he lost at 'Mania.

aww you hurt my feelings. Does this mean we aren't friends? Damn. Oh and to tell you the truth- yes today's fans will remember Orton beating HHH on other occasions wanna (yes, wanna not want to) know why? Because it was practically every month for a year that's why. Just like we still remember Orton vs. John Cena. Lame name-calling.

And guys like Shawn Michaels and Ric Flair lost at 'Mania, ending their WWE careers. You mean to tell me their legacy means shit now? Good God you're ******ed.

What big match has he won really? And don't give me some BS October PPV in 2005 or his "youngest champion ever!" match 6 years ago.

...oh my you took the only credible match away! What am I gonna do? Gee "Age Of Orton" meant shit to you then? Or when he defeated all the legends like Ric Flair, Mick Foley, etc? Defeating Triple H for the gold? Defeating CENA for the gold??

You are arguing nothing. You have yet to prove anything and frankly I'm getting bored with you.

Just because he held feuds with Hogan doesn't make him a legend. Hell, Bad News Brown and Akeem had feuds with Hogan. Are they legends?

Never once called Randy Orton a legend now did I? As for Hulk Hogan, yeah he is like him or not. So is Bad News Brown. Akeem I'm not too sure.

How do I know where he would fit in in another era? I just know.

Never thought I'd talk to a guy with superpowers. I feel honored now.

Hornswoggle is on 5 minutes a week? Yea, and most of the matches on RAw go about 4 minutes. So he's getting more time than 75% of the wrestlers on the roster. You just proved my point dipshit.

He's on Smackdown. You fail. Aww there you go hurtin' my feelings again.

Are you really gonna break out Roddy Piper and Harley Race? Guys in their 60's. Flair? Come on dude. If he had beaten a 1992 version if Flair than ok. But now it's just kicking an old man in the head.

I don't know what rock you crawled under, but usually Legend=Old Timer. I'm not arguing this any further because it's going passed your head like a balloon passes a kid with ADHD. Pay attention.

And I know some stupid ass like you will go back and say "Uhh, uuhhh what about Hogan?! Hogan is 60! He feuded with Orton!" Yea, but he lost.

Can't all be winners now can we? You're proving to be the perfect example.

The purpose of me comparing him to guys like Rock, Austin, HBK was not for me to say he needs to be like them. I'm saying he isn't in their league and never will be

That is your opinion. I've been telling you facts; whether or not I think he is in their league has NOTHING to do with the topic at hand.

You can't build a company around a guy like Randy Orton. He's a compliment to people better than him. He will not transcend the business. He will NOT be a cross over star. That is why they are building the company around Cena.

Every Superman needs a Batman. The Rock had Stone Cold, Hulk Hogan had Randy Savage, Sting had Goldberg, etc etc etc etc.

And whether you like it or not, they are building it around him. He is more over than Cena if you were to shut up and listen to the audience.

Maybe this isn't an anti Orton thread. But I just made it one. So go back to your Smackdown vs RAW video game and shut the hell up.

Mr. Badass huh? Too bad you proved nothing but you're an Orton hater. I would have enjoyed a real arguement.

Next time listen to Dropkicked and the other guys. You will not win, especially when it comes to me. I know how to debate; you know only to bitch.

BTW, if you are ever calling me out, be sure to use quotations. There's that button on my post on the bottom right-hand corner that says Quote. Using it would make you look only a tad bit smarter.