Pissed off man.

[Барбоса]

I've never played a Final Fantasy game.

 

[Danger Burger]

No, actually. I will defend 12 until my dying day, not that it needs it, but understand that it's coupled with a sea of vitriol. Frankly, I've yet to see nor understand a significant point the detractors have, but there they are. And lo, here I am.

I don't say the follwing out of malice, I get that its your favourite, so feel free to rebuttal, for the sake of common learning.

Haven't played it in a while mind, but my main problems with the game were... Well for one, I did not like the Gambit system, often it felt like I was playing a game with too many AI helpers rather than being in control of the whole crew. I didn't like the new battle style either... Moving it to a free map was mostly only useful for running away. The licence system was very restricting, and I filled it most ways up (all I think) on my first playthrough. Summons didn't work very well. The main character had very little reason to go along, and maybe shouldn't have been the lead at all, and there was very little development to any of the characters. There was no defining moment for Vaan, like Squall, Zidane or Tidus had, nor was there a depth to them either.

My least favourite thing though (I'm tired of writing so I'll skip ahead) was that I beat the last boss in one move. I hit the quickening, got a massive combo, and game over. My own fault, sure, but it pulled the carpet right out from under my feet.

 

[The Butcher]

Xenogears holds up.

 

[Danger Burger]

Xenogears holds up.

Downloading now.

 

[The Butcher]

Downloading now.

Hope you enjoy it.

I went on a JPRG kick back in the mid-to-late 90s thanks to the SNES and PS1, and Final Fantasy VII was a bit of a revelation when it came out. The 3D world and use of cinematics were significant and the story was involving, if somewhat confusing. That said, nostalgia has definitely inflated my impression of the game because of that first playthrough; if I picked it up for the first time today there's no way I'd be nearly as impressed. Of my old RPGs, Xenogears is the one I've most recently played, and the graphics and gameplay were fine by me. Didn't finish it in that session, but I vouch for the story too.

 

[Danger Burger]

Hope you enjoy it.

I went on a JPRG kick back in the mid-to-late 90s thanks to the SNES and PS1, and Final Fantasy VII was a bit of a revelation when it came out. The 3D world and use of cinematics were significant and the story was involving, if somewhat confusing. That said, nostalgia has definitely inflated my impression of the game because of that first playthrough; if I picked it up for the first time today there's no way I'd be nearly as impressed. Of my old RPGs, Xenogears is the one I've most recently played, and the graphics and gameplay were fine by me. Didn't finish it in that session, but I vouch for the story too.

My last two forays were Legend of Dragoon and Grandia, and I enjoyed both immensely. Relying on an emulator, RPG's are the handiest, so the more the merrier.

 

[The Butcher]

Chrono Cross was good but I didn't like the combat system.

 

[Sparky]

I've never played a Final Fantasy game.

Glad i'm not the only one

 

[Dirk]

Okay, but there are the Japanese numbering of FF and the Western numbering. For the sake of reference, which are we using?

I've played four so far:
One, which was fun.
Two, which was poo.

The third one was where you started off as a dark knight or something and convert into a paladin.

My favourite one was where you have the samurai who does bushido and the monk who does DBZ-wrestling.

 

[Mr. Artistic guy]

SPOILER GALORE​

I don't say the follwing out of malice, I get that its your favourite, so feel free to rebuttal, for the sake of common learning.

Sure.

Haven't played it in a while mind, but my main problems with the game were... Well for one, I did not like the Gambit system, often it felt like I was playing a game with too many AI helpers rather than being in control of the whole crew.

That comes up a lot, and honestly I wasn't mad on gambits either. But the beauty was, you could use them as much or as little as you want. Each character could have up to 10 or 11 I think, at which point, the game is basically running itself. But I usually had 3 or 4 on, for healing, protection and those annoying rare ailments like disease, stone or reverse that I may not have noticed until they ruined a battle.

I just liked that with a click of 'x' you could stop the battle and chose your next move instead of being rushes into it like in 7 or 13 for example.

I didn't like the new battle style either... Moving it to a free map was mostly only useful for running away.

That, but I liked the perspective it gave you. I'm not against random battles, and in 12 sometimes you'd get into one just by getting a bit too close so there was still the element of danger. But I could essentially chose for the most part what to fight, and that meant dying less often. I also loved the open world design and the huge maps, often being able to see out-of-depth monsters from an early point. That excited me and inspired me into what I would be able to fight later in the game.

The licence system was very restricting, and I filled it most ways up (all I think) on my first playthrough.

Although some people complained that every licence was available for every character, and I can see that, I think it was designed so that if you were specializing your character in something, by the time you reached the end boss you'd be at the licence for best swords or best spells or best axes, or whatever it was you were training. I loved the licence system personally, meaning that not only did I need the money for a specific item, I needed to unlock it. It added an extra layer to satisfaction when I was able to finally use those particular unlockables.

Summons didn't work very well.

Admittedly they didn't, and they were more fun to beat in most cases than to play with. But I just viewed them as a diminished part of the battle system in this game. Quickenings were more important (up to a point for me) and spells were also more highly used. Although not useless, and with some amazing looking overdrives, the espers were pretty useless.

The main character had very little reason to go along, and maybe shouldn't have been the lead at all,

The empire was directly responsible for the death of his brother. That's all you really need. I'd argue once all six characters are in the party, there is no real lead any more. There aremore central characters such as Ashe, who is the hear to the throne, Basch, who had been framed as a treasonous king-slayer and wanted to clear his name, and Balthier, brigand sky-pirate turned crusader for the good.

and there was very little development to any of the characters.

I just don't know if I can agree with that. Perhaps for Penelo who is the red herring of the group. It doesn't make sense how she is there, nor fight so well. But all other characters grow a good deal through the story due to what they encounter and learn going along.

If I was breaking it down: Fran is a very stoic character, so she's not emotional rapid like some characters we might see in FF. But when she visits her native people, you can see she bears the emotional scars of her decision to leave and her intense interactions with her sisters show this.

I don't really like Ashe as much as many people, but from the perspective that she has so much story on her. Her husband, the king whom she loved, was killed and she was outcast and now leads a rebel force against those she knows responsible, all the while being the rightful heir the the throne of Dalmasca. There's enough there to demonstrate how her story and the one unfolding interact.

Basch was a loyal servant, and is framed as a traitor by his own brother, which we don't find out until the end of the game. His brother the judge, by-the-by. This puts him into an automatic position seeking redemption and the entitlement of the truth coming out. He's not very outwardly emotional, but imagining the toll of the position he's in, I'm sure I'd be a little frosty and unresponsive. His sense of duty I think makes him endearing in the same way Auron is in number X.

And finally, Balthier is perhaps the most interesting character in the game. Initially, he's nothing more than a striking and accomplished thief with a quiet lady-friend what looks like a human-rabbit. But as he catches wind of the gravitas of the journey to be undertaken, he becomes part of the moral tide. This creates a system whereby his loyalty and intentions are often called into question, yet he continues to fight for the good side. He tried to create a facade that he's only interested in what he can get for his part in helping, but in reality he's doing it because he has a strong morality at his very core. Layers maaaaan. His rarely eluded to 'leading man' sentiment, including the one during the final scene are divinity for me, summarizing one of the most enigmatic but fun and just plain cool characters I've encountered in any game.
In many ways, he IS the real leading man.

There was no defining moment for Vaan, like Squall, Zidane or Tidus had, nor was there a depth to them either.

Perhaps not, but like I said, I don't think he's the leading character anyway, just one of many on a journey. It's not simplified to that extent. And when it all boils down to it, I don't think he's half as annoying as some to the similar characters to him that I've seen (Tidus, hope, cloud). I'm happy to have him on that journey with his quest for vengeance for his brother as long as we have the other characters that are there.

My least favorite thing though (I'm tired of writing so I'll skip ahead) was that I beat the last boss in one move. I hit the quickening, got a massive combo, and game over. My own fault, sure, but it pulled the carpet right out from under my feet.

I don't know really what to say to that. For me, quickenings got pretty useless around the point of fighting the esper Exodus. They just seemed to weaken for me and so I stuck to using espers and magic and genuinely never looked back.

The main reason like like 12 are the scale of the game, the variations in scenery, the mark and rare game systems, the bestiary, the open world ethos allowing you to discover areas beyond your means, the licence board, the relative complexity of the story (initially giving you the impression that Vayne isn't a bad guy until you wise up), the language and dialogue being far beyond anything I'd seen from a japanese-english game, all sensible and towards the story, some even sublime. "Doctor Cid, why do you persist in this folly, you know de-ifacted nethicite brought down the Leviathan". In fact, the Cid character himself. The post-main story activities. Have you ever beaten Yiazmat? I was under-levelled and my battle lasted a consistent 10 hours, real time. And that wasn't even the hardest boss. There was Omega mark 12 if you could even find him, one of the hardest challenges in any game ever. Dealing with complex boss like Zodiark who would use reverse near the end of a battle to use you to help heal him.

I don't know man, I just love it. There's just so little I can think of that I didn't like in the game. I can't see this disengaging story like others can. I can see the vastness laid bare for me at the beginning of the game, and the salivation at the thought of all that was to come, and the fulfillment of that mouth-watering prospect with every minute of gameplay. It took me near enough 200 hours to do everything, but only about 80 to complete the actual story. That's my kinda game.

 

[Danger Burger]

SPOILER GALORE​

Ha!

That, but I liked the perspective it gave you. I'm not against random battles, and in 12 sometimes you'd get into one just by getting a bit too close so there was still the element of danger. But I could essentially chose for the most part what to fight, and that meant dying less often. I also loved the open world design and the huge maps, often being able to see out-of-depth monsters from an early point. That excited me and inspired me into what I would be able to fight later in the game.

I will say, that was a nice feature, seeing the enemy far off and getting to decide to avoid them. Much nicer than *Screen fade* *oh shit* *RUN!*. Also you're right on the world being absolutely gorgeous, and huge. That was probably my favourite thing about the game, though I'm more a free roaming fan than the dodgy airship stuff granted.

The main reason like like 12 are the scale of the game, the variations in scenery, the mark and rare game systems, the bestiary, the open world ethos allowing you to discover areas beyond your means, the licence board, the relative complexity of the story (initially giving you the impression that Vayne isn't a bad guy until you wise up), the language and dialogue being far beyond anything I'd seen from a japanese-english game, all sensible and towards the story, some even sublime. "Doctor Cid, why do you persist in this folly, you know de-ifacted nethicite brought down the Leviathan". In fact, the Cid character himself. The post-main story activities. Have you ever beaten Yiazmat? I was under-levelled and my battle lasted a consistent 10 hours, real time. And that wasn't even the hardest boss. There was Omega mark 12 if you could even find him, one of the hardest challenges in any game ever. Dealing with complex boss like Zodiark who would use reverse near the end of a battle to use you to help heal him.

The mark and rare side-quests were a hoot and, considering my quickenings were majorly OP, the only real challenge I found in the game. Once I beat the end boss I abandoned it though, I just lose all interest. (Sometimes even reaching the end boss does it too)

I don't know man, I just love it. There's just so little I can think of that I didn't like in the game. I can't see this disengaging story like others can. I can see the vastness laid bare for me at the beginning of the game, and the salivation at the thought of all that was to come, and the fulfillment of that mouth-watering prospect with every minute of gameplay. It took me near enough 200 hours to do everything, but only about 80 to complete the actual story. That's my kinda game.

I can respect that. A lot of my trouble came from beating the game too quick and too easy. Maybe if the last boss had destroyed me I'd still be playing it. The same happened me with fallout three where I accidentally found my dad and skipped 60% of the main story. Next time I go home I'll whip out XII and give it another spin.

By the by, have you played the games after? 13 was a little weak, but 13-2 was surprisingly good!

 

[Mr. Artistic guy]

The mark and rare side-quests were a hoot and, considering my quickenings were majorly OP, the only real challenge I found in the game. Once I beat the end boss I abandoned it though, I just lose all interest. (Sometimes even reaching the end boss does it too)

I'll let you in on a secret. I didn't complete the game in one big run. I got up to that damned fish-like scion of darkness and couldn't beat him after a few tries. Beating him, Yiazmat and Omega came quite a while after my first play-through. It's a long game to get everything in.

I can respect that. A lot of my trouble came from beating the game too quick and too easy. Maybe if the last boss had destroyed me I'd still be playing it. The same happened me with fallout three where I accidentally found my dad and skipped 60% of the main story. Next time I go home I'll whip out XII and give it another spin.

True enough. If you've done even half of the extra-curricular activities before the end boss, I think he's a doddle. But I found that to be the same in 10 also.

By the by, have you played the games after? 13 was a little weak, but 13-2 was surprisingly good!

Yeah, and I'm exactly the same on both counts. I liked aspects of 13 but that game redefined linear, even when you finally got to Pulse it was quite limited. And 13-2 was much better despite having much the same fighting system, because of collecting monsters and it being less linear and quite a cool concept and also just because the story and the villain were just better.

And because Tonberrys. Always because Tonberrys.

 

[Dirk]

I'm playing on an emulator and I got hold of Road to Wrestlemania X8. It's great fun.

 

[Mr. Artistic guy]

The old school wrestling games I've played are WCW/NWO revenge, WWF Attitude, WWF War Zone, Smackdown 1 and 2, WCW Backstage Assault (random), WCW Mayhem (great fun), WCW Nitro and No Mercy. No Mercy being by far the best. Attitude was great too mind. Never played that one though.

 

[Danger Burger]

There was a cool ECW game too, right?

 

[red ass skull muhfukkah]

Anyone play the car crashers one? It was pretty damn fun

 

[Lee]

Whichever FF you played first is the best (general rule of thumb).

 

[Mr. Artistic guy]

I had a brief flirt with 10 initially and didn't like it but 12 was the first one I got into, so yeah.

 

[The Butcher]

Whichever FF you played first is the best (general rule of thumb).

Ugh, not me. Mystic Quest.

 

[Miko]

I've never played a Final Fantasy game.

If fiction isn't your thing then Final Fantasy certainly isn't for you, for while some of the stories are masterpieces in their own right, with each game offering something different for different types of players, as Danger Burger pointed out with the differences between 10 and 9.

The turn based battle system is frustrating for many, as is the cherry picking party members which if you're not careful can result in a hilariously lopsided party which can bite you in the arse during those stages when you need all your characters (later games sorted that by being able to chop and change mid-battle, a development I really wish had existed from the start) and the fact that in order to get passed certain enemies, your only choice is to wander around the world waiting for the random battle generator to kick in so that you can level up and afford the equipment you need, which can take a long time, this is a huge problem in 12 particularly. The only way to be able to deal with the more frustrating parts most of the time, is to generally gut it out because you actually care somewhat about the pixellated characters on the screen, which is the series whole charm.

 

[Mr. Artistic guy]

I agree to the extent that if you're playing FF, it'a predominantly for gameplay. If you can't dig it, it's not going to be worth it just for the story.

 

[Serious Mozzarella]

I find that the people who overrated Final Fantasy VII the most are the ones who only owned a PS1, especially if it was their first console. A fan of old Sony consoles will be like "My favourite game is Final Fantasy VII, what's yours?" and usually I'll say Ocarina of Time, to which they reply, "Oh. I never played it, I didn't have an N64."

But that's just the attitude that exclusivity brings. Final Fantasy VII is overrated, just like Metal Gear Solid is overrated, just like Halo is overrated, just like Wind Waker is overrated. If something's exclusive, and majorly hyped, you can bet your tits it's going to raved about by people who take exclusivity seriously.

And yes, I'm well aware I cited Ocarina of Time in a rant about people overrating games.

Basically, the idea is, if I didn't play a popular classic game when it came out, then it's overrated.

 

[Danger Burger]

Xenogears holds up.

Confirmed.

 

[Mr. Artistic guy]

I think most N64 stuff holds up to be fair. I've got mario kart, super mario land, both zeldas, No Mercy and others and they all get a play sometimes. Mario kart is still as epic a multiplayer game as ever there was, if it aint timeless, I don't know what we'll be doing when they becomes unplayable.

 

[Alastor]

Whichever FF you played first is the best (general rule of thumb).

I played 7 first but I prefer 5(thought I never finished the last boss) and 9 more over 7.

7 is too overrated by its fans but it was still the most ambitious JRPG of its time with its scope and great graphics.