Pick Your Poison: Hulk Hogan or Ric Flair

[Shadowmancer]

Yes but if you go on that Logic it is logical that other people are going to beat Flair as he is old. Hogan is Old so why is he beating someone like Randy Orton who is faster than him, who is healthier than him and with a gimmick of being more ruthless than Hogan. Hogan puts over those that were already over. So a Win over Hogan should not count for anything more than a Win over Flair should now. But Hogan only goes against established names from the Attitude Era now and just goes out and half asses in the ring and people cheer because he is Hulk Hogan rather than he is any good anymore. The guy that finally retires flair is going to get a major push from the WWE. What does a win over Hogan mean now. Nothing cause the last two times hogan has wrestled he has won. Flair has an underdog story now, Hogan has a domination story, what is more realistic right now. Flair's obviously.

You want a match that can match Hogan/Warrior at WM6 try a match between Flair and Ricky Steamboat. Late 70's early 80's I can't remember exactly when but that is better a story and match than that "Classic".
It also seems that you take the Bret Hart side of the story for criticising Flair. Same thing I here over and over again when it comes to this and yet others that worked with Flair, praise the logic to his matches.

 

[beetle717]

I won't take it as personal as that was from a while ago a few months or so, and since the done more reading on the subject including Glenn Gilbertis account on the death of WCW. I still stand by the fact that Hogan helped to kill WCW even though it was other factors but the start of the slide was the Fingerpoke of Doom. Look at the ratings from then on they slowly start to slide. But I still stand by picking Ric Flair as my choice based on the criteria I place on Entertaining for a large amount of time, Promos, and Ring Work. Hogan was great but I prefer Flair.

I believe the quote is "honorable men can disagree." But that was a scripted segment approved by the higher ups, the fingerpoke was awful, but worse that same night Tony Schivone promised Mankind would win the title on Raw causing thousands if not more to switch channels. That may have been worse then the fingerpoke itself. I liked Hogan's matches better then Flair's but it's an opinion. Flair is better than Hulk on the mic though.

 

[Skillz]

Yes but if you go on that Logic it is logical that other people are going to beat Flair as he is old. Hogan is Old so why is he beating someone like Randy Orton who is faster than him, who is healthier than him and with a gimmick of being more ruthless than Hogan. Hogan puts over those that were already over. So a Win over Hogan should not count for anything more than a Win over Flair should now. But Hogan only goes against established names from the Attitude Era now and just goes out and half asses in the ring and people cheer because he is Hulk Hogan rather than he is any good anymore. The guy that finally retires flair is going to get a major push from the WWE. What does a win over Hogan mean now. Nothing cause the last two times hogan has wrestled he has won. Flair has an underdog story now, Hogan has a domination story, what is more realistic right now. Flair's obviously.

Perhaps he should have jobbed to Orton, but all I was saying in my previous post was that Hogan HAS jobbed to other wrestlers, and given them huge wins that meant a lot to their careers (Warrior, Goldberg, Rock). Hogan's character has always been that of a superhero, who can no matter what, overcome all the odds. Character-wise he doesn't want to look weak to all of his Hulkamaniacs, therefore he rarely loses. And he probably only wants to lose to wrestlers who he feels are deserving. A win over Hogan would always count more than a win over Flair, because Hogan is the far bigger name.

It also seems that you take the Bret Hart side of the story for criticising Flair. Same thing I here over and over again when it comes to this and yet others that worked with Flair, praise the logic to his matches.

I take that side of the story because for me, it's the most accurate side. Why the hell would you do a flip over the ropes, run to the turnbuckle, climb up, only to get thrown off... in every single match??!! After getting hit on the head, why walk around all dazed for 10 seconds then do an unrealistic "flop" and fall face first on the mat?? It's completely illogical and ridiculous, and detracts from the realism of the match.

 

[Shadowmancer]

The Flair Flop is all to do with the fact that he can't drop on his back like everyone else does because of the Plane Crash he was in. Consider it from that point of view he is still going and Wrestling after having been told not to by Doctors in the late 70's. (77 I think) And then having an Amazing feud with Ricky Steamboat. And as a Counter to those names that you put up there as names that Hogan has put over, How many are either still involved in Wrestling or were up to their Justifiable retirement (Warrior for being so crap). The Rock left Wrestling, Goldberg is no longer Wrestling and Warrior has been loopy since he got his gimmick. Another name that Hogan put over Brock Lesnar Left Wrestling to go do other things, NFL and MMA. does that say something about the guys he put over. not people you would rely on to build a company around if Hogan had to pass the torch .

 

[twisterwrw929]

No, it's not. It's a joke to say Flair is anywhere near Hogan's level.



Wrong.

Flair was at times, clueless in the ring. An illogical spot wrestler who did the same stupid routine in every match he ever had. His idea of ring psychology was absolutely piss poor, especially when comparing to Hogan. Not one Ric Flair match comes close to Hogan/Warrior at WM6. Hogan is a way better worker and storyteller than Flair could ever dream to be.

You're right Hogan's matches were great. He just throws punches, lets the other guy get the upper hand, hulks up, wags his finger, gets the big boot, leg drop and the win. But Flair is a spot worker and less of a worker than Hogan was?

Are you out of you mind? Hogan MADE this business! He made professional wrestling what it is today. He popularized it, to a degree that no other wrestler has ever managed to reach. Without him there would be no WrestleMania, no Raw, no Austin, no Rock, no Undertaker, no HHH, no HBK... .

When I say flair is better for the business, I mean because he puts people over. Hogan was huge for this business, but at the same time he hurt it. He just completely ran over people when he was in WWE at first and when he left, it took them a while to become solid again because there really wasn't anyone on Hogan's level because he just constantly beat them, he was on top, and once he left there wasn't a great top guy because Hogan beat everyone before he left. And then he went to WCW, and he just kept beating people there, he is part of the reason WCW went out of business.

This shows complete ignorance. Every top wrestler has an ego, everyone has a desire to make a lot of money. Hogan is passionate for professional wrestling, and his fans. .

Hogan isn't that passionate. I'm not saying Flair doesn't care about the money or he doesn't have an ego, but Hogan is all about the money.

Actually, Hogan did do that. He did it for Warrior. He did it for Goldberg. And The Rock. And HHH. And Angle. A win over Hogan means something. Flair's been so worthless these past several years, that a win over him means absolutely nothing.

That's not a very big list, and Hogan's career has been going for a while. And how many of those guys were already over? I'm talking about putting younger guys over, mid-card guys who are on the verge of becoming main eventers. Rock was already a main eventer and a top star, so was Angle, I don't recall when he put Triple H over, I do remember Triple H dropping the title to him at backlash 02 only a month after he won it at wrestlemania, but I can't remember when hogan ever beat him.

And the part about a win over flair is meaningless isn't true. With a good storyline build up, a win over a legend like Ric Flair could be great for a young guy. No, he hasn't done much in recent years, but him putting over a young guy over would be good for someones career.

 

[Skillz]

The Flair Flop is all to do with the fact that he can't drop on his back like everyone else does because of the Plane Crash he was in.

If that's true then why does he have to make it look so phony and unrealistic?

And as a Counter to those names that you put up there as names that Hogan has put over, How many are either still involved in Wrestling or were up to their Justifiable retirement (Warrior for being so crap). The Rock left Wrestling, Goldberg is no longer Wrestling and Warrior has been loopy since he got his gimmick. Another name that Hogan put over Brock Lesnar Left Wrestling to go do other things, NFL and MMA. does that say something about the guys he put over. not people you would rely on to build a company around if Hogan had to pass the torch .

The fact that they left wrestling, or are retired, has absolutely nothing to do with Hogan.

You're right Hogan's matches were great. He just throws punches, lets the other guy get the upper hand, hulks up, wags his finger, gets the big boot, leg drop and the win. But Flair is a spot worker and less of a worker than Hogan was?

Watch Hogan's matches. No one has ever worked the crowd in a match the way hogan did. He ALWAYS had the crowd in the palm of his hand, he controlled their every emotion. His matches grabbed the attention of wrestling fans, unlike no other. Why do you think this is so? Because he sucked? No. It's because he was a great wrestler, and a great worker. It's that simple.

When I say flair is better for the business, I mean because he puts people over. Hogan was huge for this business, but at the same time he hurt it. He just completely ran over people when he was in WWE at first and when he left, it took them a while to become solid again because there really wasn't anyone on Hogan's level because he just constantly beat them, he was on top, and once he left there wasn't a great top guy because Hogan beat everyone before he left. And then he went to WCW, and he just kept beating people there, he is part of the reason WCW went out of business.

I'm not denying that Hogan has made mistakes that were bad for business, because he has. However the good he did FAR outweighs the bad. Hogan put professional wrestling on the map in the first place.

That's not a very big list, and Hogan's career has been going for a while.

You said Hogan would never put anyone over, I gave you examples of when he did.

And how many of those guys were already over? I'm talking about putting younger guys over, mid-card guys who are on the verge of becoming main eventers. Rock was already a main eventer and a top star, so was Angle,

Hogan solidified Warrior and Goldberg as main-eventers. Lesnar was an up-and-coming star who Hogan allowed to destroy him. Rock's win over Hogan was probably the biggest, and the most important win of his career. And I don't remember Hogan ever tapping out to anyone, until his match with Angle. When Hogan lost to someone, it truly meant something.

I don't recall when he put Triple H over, I do remember Triple H dropping the title to him at backlash 02 only a month after he won it at wrestlemania, but I can't remember when hogan ever beat him..

HHH beat him on SD! a couple of months later to become the number 1 contender against Taker at KOTR.

And the part about a win over flair is meaningless isn't true. With a good storyline build up, a win over a legend like Ric Flair could be great for a young guy. No, he hasn't done much in recent years, but him putting over a young guy over would be good for someones career.

When Flair eventually loses his last match, it will mean something to his opponent. What I was trying to say before was that every time he's lost in the past several years, it's been meaningless to his opponent.

 

[Amazing Shawn]

Watch Hogan's matches. No one has ever worked the crowd in a match the way hogan did. He ALWAYS had the crowd in the palm of his hand, he controlled their every emotion. His matches grabbed the attention of wrestling fans, unlike no other. Why do you think this is so? Because he sucked? No. It's because he was a great wrestler, and a great worker. It's that simple.



I'm not denying that Hogan has made mistakes that were bad for business, because he has. However the good he did FAR outweighs the bad. Hogan put professional wrestling on the map in the first place.



You said Hogan would never put anyone over, I gave you examples of when he did.



When Flair eventually loses his last match, it will mean something to his opponent. What I was trying to say before was that every time he's lost in the past several years, it's been meaningless to his opponent.

He does have a way of entertaining a crowd. He really does and I will not doubt that, but look at all the situations he was stuck in:

Hogan and Andres classic situation. The biggest main event ever.

Hogan and Andre again. They were waiting to see this happen again.

Hogan and Savage finally meeting after exploding.an the Ultimate

Hogan and Warrior clashing. Champion and Champion.

Hogan the Ultimate American facing off agains Slaughter the traitor.

Hogan in his retirement match against Sid.

Two Icons facing in the Rock and Hogan.

He was put in such huge situations he was bound to get huge reactions.

Hogan has put over not many people. The people he put over were already established as huge superstars. Goldberg was already on an undefeated streak. Kurt Angle was white hot and was having an amazing rookie year. Warrior was already a huge name.

Flair losing to some younger talent means something. He has been stuck fighting established superstars..

 

[beetle717]

He does have a way of entertaining a crowd. He really does and I will not doubt that, but look at all the situations he was stuck in:

Hogan and Andres classic situation. The biggest main event ever.

Hogan and Andre again. They were waiting to see this happen again.

Hogan and Savage finally meeting after exploding.an the Ultimate

Hogan and Warrior clashing. Champion and Champion.

Hogan the Ultimate American facing off agains Slaughter the traitor.

Hogan in his retirement match against Sid.

Two Icons facing in the Rock and Hogan.

He was put in such huge situations he was bound to get huge reactions.

Hogan has put over not many people. The people he put over were already established as huge superstars. Goldberg was already on an undefeated streak. Kurt Angle was white hot and was having an amazing rookie year. Warrior was already a huge name.

Flair losing to some younger talent means something. He has been stuck fighting established superstars..

I'm not going to nitpick, but Hogan was put in those situations because he was capable of carrying the ball, it's that simple.

I lied I am going to nitpick I guess. Was it Angle's rookie year? I remember it being a few years into his career.

Now can anyone tell me why I seem to remember him putting over Taker at a PPV for the title? It sticks in my mind it was early in Taker's WWE career and possible a Summerslam maybe around 90 or 91, maybe even as late as 92 or 93. A little help? Please?

 

[Amazing Shawn]

I'm not going to nitpick, but Hogan was put in those situations because he was capable of carrying the ball, it's that simple.

I lied I am going to nitpick I guess. Was it Angle's rookie year? I remember it being a few years into his career.

Now can anyone tell me why I seem to remember him putting over Taker at a PPV for the title? It sticks in my mind it was early in Taker's WWE career and possible a Summerslam maybe around 90 or 91, maybe even as late as 92 or 93. A little help? Please?

And I clearly stated that he has the ability to work a crowd. I just said the situations he were put into were real life and were going to draw and get huge crowd reactions no matter who it was. Hogan was very good at making the crowd involved no doubt.

I think it may be 2001 or 2002 so either his second or third year wrestling.It doesn't really matter though considering Angle got in my opinion one of the hugest pushes ever. He was already a big time player by the end of his first year.

Yeah he did in 1991 at Survivor Series due to interference by Flair. But Hogan won the title back six days later. Not really that long is it.

 

[beetle717]

And I clearly stated that he has the ability to work a crowd. I just said the situations he were put into were real life and were going to draw and get huge crowd reactions no matter who it was. Hogan was very good at making the crowd involved no doubt.

I think it may be 2001 or 2002 so either his second or third year wrestling.It doesn't really matter though considering Angle got in my opinion one of the hugest pushes ever. He was already a big time player by the end of his first year.

Yeah he did in 1991 at Survivor Series due to interference by Flair. But Hogan won the title back six days later. Not really that long is it.

No Hogan brought something to the table no one else, including Ric Flair could. He had that "it" factor, man I hate that term but it's true, Hogan was a spectacle. You make it sound like you could have put in Barry Horowitz and it still would have been a big deal. Hogan had the charisma, look, and ability to tell a story that Flair could only dream of. Besides part of the reason those situations were as big as they were is that Hulk Hogan was involved.


I agree Angle got a huge push but I think Goldberg's was bigger but that's another argument, I just seemed to remember him being there longer than he really was I guess.

Fair enough on Taker's first title, I just remembered that one match and Taker pinning Hogan, and that's vague at best in my memory, but I can be forgiven since it's been 16 years right?

 

[DMan23]

I just laugh at the posters who have said you could've put anyone in Hogan's situation and they would've been successful. That is ridiculous. There was a reason Vince chose Hogan. There was a reason they had Hogan beat the Iron Sheik in just over five minutes to win the championship in 1984.

McMahon built the company on Hogan's back from 1984-1990. There were a ton of supporting talents, but if there was no Hogan where would wrestling be?

It's true when Angle, Triple H, and The Rock were put over by Hogan they were big stars already but the win over Hogan solidified their greatness. It automatically puts you at the highest level.

 

[Slyfox696]

Ric Flair loved working a crowd it was more than that, Flair was mentally out of it for a long time and just kept going out there because he loved the buisness and in a way needed it because really he couldnt do shit besides wrestle

What does that have to do with the fact that his work in the ring was average at best? Other than to verify what I said?

Hogan drew in the south with WCW which was a Souther comapny so obviously the fans would show up if a Hogan led WWF would have come to the Carolinas or Virginia everyine there would wather watch Ric Flair take a shit than watch Hulk Hogan wrestle

But, Hogan drew without Flair...in WCW. In fact, Hogan drew more in WCW than Flair did.

Hulk Hogan was just better than Flair. That's not a knock on Flair, as Hogan is better than everyone in professional wrestling.

Except for Bryan Danielson.

 

[Freedom 35]

What does that have to do with the fact that his work in the ring was average at best? Other than to verify what I said?

But, Hogan drew without Flair...in WCW. In fact, Hogan drew more in WCW than Flair did.

Hulk Hogan was just better than Flair. That's not a knock on Flair, as Hogan is better than everyone in professional wrestling.

Except for Bryan Danielson.

the time period where his in ring work was average was the one you referred to when he was on the verge of a nervous breakdown, Mid Atlantic Ric Flair there were few better in the ring than him

Hogan drew in WCW because he was playing arguably the best heel in hisory cant argue that I got nothing there but if he were in WWF in that same role h wouldnt have drawn thats my point

Im aware that hes better than Flair but I still dont think you give him enough credit for his solid drawing ability and good in ring work, Ric Flair is one of the better wrestlers of all time because hes was well rounded and had a great passion for the buisness and when its all said and done he may not have meant more to the buisness he will most likely mean more to a larger amount of people in the buisness than Hogan ever will

 

[FlairFan2003]

This is a complex question. First, Hogan was the public face of the WWF when pro wrestling, namely WWF became national. Fact is, wrestling was very popular before "Hulkamania" but different promotions dominated the arena shows and television in a certain area (IE territory). Growing up in Pittsburgh, we were on the edge of the WWF territory (nearby West Virginia ran a alot of NWA shows).

That said, Vince McMahon Jr made the WWF a nationwide promotion and household name. Yes, Hogan was his top star, but McMahon surrounded Hogan with some great talent (Savage, Piper, Valentine, Steamboat, Orndorff, etc). McMahon understood marketing and advertising much better than other existing wrestling promoters who knew how to put together matches and write exciting fueds but lagged far behind in marketing their product. Hogan deserves credit for his success, but McMahon was the true genius. At the same time, the NWA was expanding nationally and doing well as a whole in large part because of their exposure on TBS - And Flair was their flagship, their top draw. In many parts of the country Hogan and the WWF couldn't compete for fans against Flair and the NWA. The wrestling scene in this country circa 1981-1988 was extremely exciting as these promotions (and the handfull of independent promotions still around) vied for fans. Flair became better known and more popular than the vast majority of McMahon's "characters" without the benefit of his marketing savvy.

Another thing to look at is how each of them influenced the business, if at all. Today's wrestler's, especially HHH, Shawn Michaels, even Chris Jericho, owe far more to their personas, interview styles, and ring performances to Flair than to Hogan. It's not even close. How many top stars today, two decades removed from the ascendance of Flair and Hogan to the top of the wrestling industry, look like or say that their biggest influence was Hogan ? Hard to think of one. Many ppl still remember his biggest feuds and best matches but who among today's top stars can say their appearance, etc is based on Hogan ? Flair's influence is undeniable. This might be the biggest thing, bigger than McMahon's influence, TBS exposure, who was surrounded by what talent, Flair's influence on today's stars is well documented. They aspire to be Ric Flair, they have memories of Hulk Hogan - it's a big difference.

Certainly Flair gets credit for his willingness to make his opponents look good, regardless of wether he is winning or losing a match or fued. Hogan has long been criticized for his unwillingness to work an a fair basis with other top stars. He is smart, protecting his image, but Hogan gives little to the industry, thus making him a less valuable influence on today's stars than Flair.

 

[PhiSig1873]

Well..no shit that more people that Hogan faced are in the WWE hall of fame because when those guys were wrestling Ric Flair wasn't in the WWE dumbshits. He may have wrestled a few of them with his short stint in the WWF but he never had the chance to wrestle with them. Hogan is the better performer/entertainer but Flair is the better wrestler and the greatest ever. Ask anyone but Hart or Foley as they hate Flair, but almost all others will say Flair is the best and greatest wrestler ever. Ric Flair has had more better wrestling matches than Hogan. Hogan had McMahon and the genius like business that they created while Flair had wrestlers that weren't rich promoting. Flair flopped in his short stint in the WWE because he was the enemy of the Hogan fans because he was the darth vader to hogans luke skywalker. The anti hogan fans loved him. Nowadays beating Flair is still big but it doesnt have the impact of beating Hogan and thats simple because Flair does whats right for the business by jobbing if needed be whereas Hogan doesnt lose. Beating Hogan is similar to beatin Cena..doesnt happen often!!

 

[midgensa]

As great as Flair is ... and as much as I prefer him ... there is noone like Hulk Hogan. I don't think this one is even close.
I love The Rock, Stone Cold and Ric Flair ... but NONE of them are Hulk Hogan. Noone has been more mainstream for wrestling than Hogan. From his wrestling Andre the Giant and the Ultimate Warrior and bringing the WWF to from NO PPV's to FIVE PPV's a year ... he then took his name to WCW and took them from second place to the top and became the MOST NOTORIOUS HEEL of all time along with his top face status. Sure his "creative control" later in his years has been questionable, but why the hell would he come back to lose (which he has said he would gladly do for the dream match with Austin). He has laid down to The Rock TWICE, Kurt Angle and Triple H.
Hogan is the greatest. No ifs ands or buts. But I would probably rather watch Ric Flair most days of the week.

 

[Davi323]

How can I possibly choose between the two wrestlers I admire the most? Hogan and Flair are by far the two most important wrestlers in the last 30 years...I chose Hogan, but only because of my lingering WWF over the NWA/WCW loyalty. But really, there should be a 3rd option on the poll for BOTH.

 

[Crawthorn]

As we know, true greatness takes not only quality but longevity. Austin did not have the longevity of Hogan, or the overall impact, so he loses...period. Now, a case can be made for Flair over Hogan, but everyone knows Hulk Hogan, and he transcended the sport. O.k., imagine if there was Ric Flair, but no Hulk Hogan. Would Ric Flair have made wrestling what it is today? Hell no. Ric Flair is the best at what he does...but he could have never in his life pull off what Hulk Hogan did...or any other wrestler for that matter. The business of professional wrestling wouldnt have been so hugely popular if it weren't for 2 men. Vince and Hulk Hogan. Ric Flair wrestled before Hogan did...but did Ric Flair do anything HUGE for NWA or WCW? Hell no. If he was so great, he would have beaten Hulk Hogan to being the guy who transcended the sports entertainment, known as professional wrestling. Forget about his lack of moves, forget about his backstage power, his family issues, etc. Hulk Hogan is, to me, the man. Ric Flair might be a good rassler, he might be a good mic man, he might have perfected his craft...but, in no way, did Ric Flair grab his audience and skyrocketed professional wrestling like Hulk Hogan did. Case closed.

Edit: And all this stuff about Ric Flair retiring, I'm not moved. Ric Flair was just a wrestler in a company that gave him...what is it?..15...16 world titles? Way too many for a wrestler, even for Flair. People say Hogan had too much power in the back, blah blah blah. HHH married the bosses daughter, he has always had lots of power in the "back". Those 15....16 world titles Flair had....how many of those titles were influenced by Flair's power in the back? Wayyyyy too many for one man.

 

[sxwwrestling]

It is Hogan hands down. Everyone even non wrestling fans know who Hulk Hogan is. He is the most recognizable name in wrestling history. He still to this day gets pops that are louder and longer than anyone else in the business does including Flair, Austin, Rock or anyone else. Flair might have had the better technical wrestling but Hulk Hogan was the complete package and he was way more marketable. WCW was in the toilet until Hogan got there and it closed 8 months after he left. Hogan came in and Flair and Sting both were pushed to the #2 and #3 guys in WCW. Plus Hogan won more of the head to head matches. The greatest wrestler in wrestling history is Hulk Hogan!!!

 

[flaw]

To me Ric Flair and Hogan both made this business what it is today but it's how they got there that made me choose Flair. The original "Nature Boy" was Buddy Rogers a pioneer who at the time was the biggest name in wrestling. He wrestled Flair and saw his talent in the ring and passed his namesake to Ric because he knew that it was in good hands. Hogan had the look but it took many gimmicks before they found the right one for him in the WWF. Flair is a 16 time world champion (prob 20+ if you count NWA). He won it and lost it that many times cause he knew who to drop it to at the right time and to who to prosper careers and help the promotion. Hogan is a 12 time champion who only dropped the title when completely necessary in which he would be bitter and get the title back. He never passed the torch. Hogan could have to HBK, Orton, or Triple H but chose not to. Flair did not hesitate to pass it on to all 3. Flair ended his career the right way on the biggest stage of them all. Hogan I don't believe will ever have a last match the way Flair did. His very last match against Orton could have went that way but it's my opinion that it will be the last match you ever see Hogan in and I am all smiles. On RAW you saw all the past and present go in the ring and thank Flair for what he did. Why? Because they all loved him. If Hogan ever has a farewell speech how many past and present wrestlers will thank him??? The fans will because of the media he and vince created but not many wrestlers. Why? Because they hate or despise him. Thank you Flair you are what is right about the sport of wrestling. You deserve all that was given to you.

 

[Danmen001]

The fact of the matter is Ric Flair IS better, and deserves to be recognized as the better man.

Ric Flair has worked in this business for 36 years. He entertained us, made us want to watch wrestling, give us his best all the time. Ric Flair is and always will be THE MAN. I understand Hogan is great. He worked for the business and made money, sure he is over with the fans......but so is Ric. Also Ric earned our respect way more than Hogan. Hogan has the got the ego the size of his wallet. His ego makes him thinks he is the best, just beacauyse he gets his pop. Ric Flair has earned our respect in this business and he is a much better wrestler than Hogan will ever be. Ric Flair is THE MAN. This leaves me to say...... THe sylin, profylin, son of a gun, Ric Flair.

WWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Slyfox696]

Hogan had the look but it took many gimmicks before they found the right one for him in the WWF.

Umm...what?

What are you talking about? The man was mega over in the AWA and in Japan before running with Hulkamania.

I'm not trying to discredit you, but I would love to hear your further explain this.

Flair is a 16 time world champion (prob 20+ if you count NWA).

So?

I don't think his 16 runs combined equals Hogan's runs. I mean, if he's a 16 time World Champion, that means he's lost the belt 16 times as well.

He won it and lost it that many times cause he knew who to drop it to at the right time and to who to prosper careers and help the promotion.

Yeah..umm...who?

Hogan is a 12 time champion who only dropped the title when completely necessary in which he would be bitter and get the title back.

Hogan only dropped the title when it was no longer the most profitable for business to have him hold it.

He never passed the torch.

The Ultimate Warrior, Bill Goldberg, The Rock, and Brock Lesnar all tend to disagree.

Hogan could have to HBK, Orton, or Triple H but chose not to.

Umm, so? Why should any of them have gone over Hogan?

Flair did not hesitate to pass it on to all 3.

You don't think that perhaps his great friendship with them, not to mention the fact that they worship the ground he walks on, may have had something to do with that?

Nah, surely not.

Hogan I don't believe will ever have a last match the way Flair did. His very last match against Orton could have went that way but it's my opinion that it will be the last match you ever see Hogan in and I am all smiles.

Hogan is not a full-time wrestler any more.

On RAW you saw all the past and present go in the ring and thank Flair for what he did. Why? Because they all loved him.

Funny how you only saw a few people from the past out there.

You do realize that Flair was notorious for holding people down, burying people to bookers, and strong-arming the NWA into doing what he wanted, right? And if things didn't go his way, he'd just quit and leave.

If Hogan ever has a farewell speech how many past and present wrestlers will thank him???

Only the ones who realize that the money they make now is due to Hogan.

Which, hopefully, will be all of them.

Why? Because they hate or despise him.

While I disagree with this, explain to me how this has any relevance towards quality.

Thank you Flair you are what is right about the sport of wrestling.

Yes, holding people down, strong-arming bookers, burying people to creative, bailing on your company, thinking you can do whatever you want, use cartoonish spots that are completely unbelievable and unrealistic, working the same exact match for 35 years, and having atrocious selling is "what is right about the sport of wrestling".

 

[Crawthorn]

I'm not moved about Flair's retirement. It's a shame that people don't ever count the fact that wrestling is predetermined when they talk about a wrestler's titles held. Yes, Flair had longevity, but 16 titles are still due to a company's decision to have him win. He sure had clout in the back.
Speaking of power in the back, HHH has more than Hogan EVER did! If HHH truly does not want a storyline, or a person pushed, or an outcome, he is in so deep with the McMahons he will get his way. It was either last year or the year before, Helmsley did not go on the tour of the middle east during Christmas for the soldiers. If anyone else had done that, they'd have been in hot water with the boss. Heck, I bet HHH is in even more than Shane McMahon. So don't give me this Hogan held wrestlers down garbage, and Hogan did mean things just to get HIS way..I can name 2 right now that had probably more..

1. WHOOOOOOOOO

2. The almighty son-in-law.

I'd like to point out another thing. Unlike Terry Funk, and Ric Flair, Hogan never overdoes his stay. He keeps his legendary status intact by being what he was. The Immortal Hulk Hogan. I thought Flair overdid his stay as a wrestler. Which shrinks his legendary status a bit, to me anyway. Hogan comes and goes when he wants. To me, that's good business. If you are a legendary wrestler, you'd want the fans hoping you to come back for one more match. And when you do come back, the crowd will be at its loudest, drooling...because you've been gone for awhile. Ric Flair was tied to a contract, so he was Vince's slave, Vince did whatever he wanted. But Hogan refuses to be a slave to the business. Vince even offered him a contract until he was 70-something years-old. Hogan turned it down. Good for him.

Hogan, in WCW, lost to Vampiro and Billy Kidman. Name me 2 guys...just two...in Flair's long career at the top in all the companies he held world titles in, that beat him, in the ring, that was not anywhere near upper card status Via pinfall or submission.

 

[bambam]

Ive always like flair way more. Never really been a Hogan fan. The bad thing about Flair was his best matches were either not on tv so everyone could see them, or the were on tv, but only in limited areas. WWF had PPV, Tv deals, so Hogan was more well known and seen arould the world.....not to mention he was a Face so more people liked him and got behind him. Flair put on way better matches, and the crowd gave him so much heat as a heel. His matches with Race and Rhodes are Legendary! Ric WOOOOOOOOO Flair Hands down!

 

[Crawthorn]

oh, and his feud with Steamboat wasn't legendary? Now there's a guy who should be recognized as much as Flair...STEAMBOAT.

I have 2 last things to say about the overused rassler...

1. All that stuff on Raw this week, specially the teary-eyed ending...somewhat overly done...do you think that was a part of the show, do you think Vince told them to do it...or do you think they did it at free will?

Just seemed a lil schmaltzy for me.

Hogan probably won't have a goodbye. I'm sorta glad, I can't imagine Hogan in a teary-eyed overly done, schmaltzy finale in the ring.

Say goodbye, move on, geez. He aint dyin, he'll be back on t.v. someday.

And Flair saying he wanted HHH to induct him. Thats a load of crap. Either that, or that was the biggest backstab Flair ever gave Arn Anderson.

Steamboat should have laced up his boots and wrestled Flair. That has always been my goodbye dream match for Flair. One more time with Steamboat.