New York Region, St Louis Subregion: Second Round:(11)Jake Roberts vs. (6)A.J. Styles

[klunderbunker]

The following contest is a first round match in the New York Region.

This match takes place in the Scottrade Center, St. Louis, Missouri.

#11 Jake Roberts

Vs.

#6 AJ Styles

This contest is one fall with a 20 minute time limit. The match will take place in a 16 x 16 ring with no ramp leading to it. Any traditional managers for either competitor will be allowed at ringside.

As for voting, vote for who you think would win this match based on the criteria you choose. Some suggestions would be (not limited to): in ring ability, overall skill, their level of influence at the highest point in their career, ability to connect with the crowd, experience in major matches or simply personal preference etc.

The most votes in the voting period wins and in the case of a tie, the most written votes wins. There is one written vote per user, meaning if a poster make ten posts saying Bret should win that will count as a single vote. In the event of a second tie, both men are ELIMINATED, no questions asked. Only winners advance.

Voting is open for four days and all posts must be non-spam.​

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

A.J. is an IWC sweetheart, and I'm a huge fan of his. He hits spots, he's a sound technical wrestler, etc. However, I don't feel he's faced anyone as treacherous, methodical and downright dangerous as Jake Roberts.

Roberts is one of the greatest wrestlers to never hold the WWF Championship (another victim of the Hogan era). So I'm really hoping I don't have to hear about A.J. being a World's champion, but it's inevitable I suppose.

Roberts is just too sly for A.J. Roberts via the DDT around 15 minutes in.

 

[Con T.]

Roberts is one of the greatest wrestlers to never hold the WWF Championship (another victim of the Hogan era).

You wanna know what Jake was also one of the greatest at? You do?

Jake was also one of the greatest wrestlers at losing. Period. You can argue how good his promos were and how great psychology was, but have you ever seen a feud where Jake Roberts came out on top? Has there ever been something where Jake actually went over clean to end the feud?

Well, let's take a look at all the feuds Jake's had. He's been soundly beaten by Taker, so there goes that one. He was beaten by Savage in their feud, strike two for the Snake. He didn't take the IC belt off Honky Tonk Man in their feud, he lost to DiBiase in a feud that was built for him to go over. Hell, he lost out to Jerry Lawler in a feud that outed his alcoholism to the public. Jake was always great in the ring, but he never had that moment that cemented himself as a winner. In just about every major feud Jake was involved in, Jake Roberts lost.

AJ Styles, however, is almost the exact opposite. I can't think of a feud he wasn't won out on. He's beaten Sting, a man who soundly beat Roberts, again, he's beaten Angle, and he's just as good a worker in the ring as Jake Roberts. Sure, he's not as good as Jake on the mic, but the proof is evident in his career. While is destined to jobbing and mediocrity, the other has excelled to become the Franchise of TNA.

This one has to go to AJ.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

As much as I like Jake, I just can't make myself vote for him here. When it comes to in-ring ability and athleticism, Styles is far superior to Jake. Jake is crafty and does know how and when to pick his spots but I just can't vote for Jake here.

I know he's devious but that can only take you so far against someone with Styles' abilities in the ring. Styles has such a high energy, fast paced offense coupled with some great ground & pound stuff that I just think Jake wouldn't be able to tell on which side he was getting hit and with what. If Jake can hit the DDT unexpectedly, then I think he'd pull off the upset here but I don't see it happening.

Styles is a main event talent, Jake never made it. Styles has wins over talent as great as Sting & Kurt Angle and it's just too much to overlook. Styles gets the win around the 8 to 10 minute mark.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

You wanna know what Jake was also one of the greatest at? You do?

Jake was also one of the greatest wrestlers at losing. Period. You can argue how good his promos were and how great psychology was, but have you ever seen a feud where Jake Roberts came out on top? Has there ever been something where Jake actually went over clean to end the feud?

Well, let's take a look at all the feuds Jake's had. He's been soundly beaten by Taker, so there goes that one. He was beaten by Savage in their feud, strike two for the Snake. He didn't take the IC belt off Honky Tonk Man in their feud, he lost to DiBiase in a feud that was built for him to go over. Hell, he lost out to Jerry Lawler in a feud that outed his alcoholism to the public. Jake was always great in the ring, but he never had that moment that cemented himself as a winner. In just about every major feud Jake was involved in, Jake Roberts lost.

All fair points. However, Jake has pinned his fair share of great wrestlers, such as Rick Rude, Ted DiBiase (on more than one occasion), and Jushin Thunder Liger. He won matches, and plenty of them.

AJ Styles, however, is almost the exact opposite. I can't think of a feud he wasn't won out on. He's beaten Sting, a man who soundly beat Roberts, again, he's beaten Angle, and he's just as good a worker in the ring as Jake Roberts. Sure, he's not as good as Jake on the mic, but the proof is evident in his career. While is destined to jobbing and mediocrity, the other has excelled to become the Franchise of TNA.

I hate to be the one to break the news here, but what happens in TNA isn't nearly as important as what happens in the WWF/E, or WCW. Jake may have lost his share of matches, but at least he can say he was in there with the best of the best. A.J. cannot.

A.J. has beaten an over-the-hill Sting, gone roughly .500 with Kurt Angle, and that's it. That's his career. Also, don't get me started on the number of absolute bums A.J. has jobbed out to.

 

[Con T.]

All fair points. However, Jake has pinned his fair share of great wrestlers, such as Rick Rude, Ted DiBiase (on more than one occasion), and Jushin Thunder Liger. He won matches, and plenty of them.

None of which, (and we can go days for this) are nearly as impressive as beating Kurt Angle. The truth is, Jake never beat the top dog in the company. Hell, he rarely beat the second tier stars.

Oh, and all those wrestlers, save for Liger? Yeah, it's a roughly fifty-fifty deal there, too.

I hate to be the one to break the news here, but what happens in TNA isn't nearly as important as what happens in the WWF/E, or WCW. Jake may have lost his share of matches, but at least he can say he was in there with the best of the best. A.J. cannot.

And why not? Because TNA is a "smaller" company?

I hate to break the news to you, sir, but in spite of recent reports, TNA is actually a nationally televised company. Just because it may not be as big as the WWE doesn't it make any less so.

A.J. has beaten an over-the-hill Sting, gone roughly .500 with Kurt Angle, and that's it. That's his career.

Yeah, that's a load of shit, and you know it. Who was pivotal for the X Division, long before TNA ditched it about a year ago? Yeah, that was AJ. Who was the cornerstone to making TNA a nationally known entity? Yeah, that was AJ. We can go on for days about the actual product, which I'll admit is shit. But frankly, AJ is the first person that comes to mind when wrestling fans talk about TNA.

Also, don't get me started on the number of absolute bums A.J. has jobbed out to.

Which is a Hell of a lot better than making a career of being the guy who jobbed out. Face it, Jake Roberts always has been, and always will be, a glorified Jobber to the Stars.

 

[Tastycles]

Look, I've said it in just about every Jake tournament match there's ever been, but the fact remains - Jake Roberts rarely beat actual stars. Yes, he was probably a better promo man than AJ, and yes, he would have made a feud with AJ seem to be really good, but he would have lost in the end, like he always did. Roberts was a career loser, but managed to keep himself relevant and popular. That's a good trait to have, but it won't help here.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

None of which, (and we can go days for this) are nearly as impressive as beating Kurt Angle.

So because A.J. has pinned Kurt Angle, he automatically goes over Jake? That's ridiculous.

And why not? Because TNA is a "smaller" company?

Yes.

Yeah, that's a load of shit, and you know it. Who was pivotal for the X Division, long before TNA ditched it about a year ago? Yeah, that was AJ.

And on a large scale, who cared? What did it do for television ratings, and PPV buys? Nothing. Win, lose or draw, Jake competed on shows that absolutely blow anything TNA has ever done right out of the water. Exposure matters.

Who was the cornerstone to making TNA a nationally known entity?

Sting? Kurt Angle? Anyone, over the hill or not, with name recognition?

We can go on for days about the actual product, which I'll admit is shit. But frankly, AJ is the first person that comes to mind when wrestling fans talk about TNA.

Agreed, and I love A.J. Styles. I just can't envision him (kayfabe) pinning Jake Roberts in this scenario.

Which is a Hell of a lot better than making a career of being the guy who jobbed out. Face it, Jake Roberts always has been, and always will be, a glorified Jobber to the Stars.

Jake Roberts always has been, and always will be, a damn fine competitor, who did what he did on a stage A.J. hasn't even come close to.

 

[Con T.]

So because A.J. has pinned Kurt Angle, he automatically goes over Jake? That's ridiculous.



Yes.


And on a large scale, who cared? What did it do for television ratings, and PPV buys? Nothing. Win, lose or draw, Jake competed on shows that absolutely blow anything TNA has ever done right out of the water. Exposure matters.



Sting? Kurt Angle? Anyone, over the hill or not, with name recognition?



Agreed, and I love A.J. Styles. I just can't envision him (kayfabe) pinning Jake Roberts in this scenario.





Jake Roberts always has been, and always will be, a damn fine competitor, who did what he did on a stage A.J. hasn't even come close to.

I'm sorry, but are we going on the scale of who's career was more impressive. Then riddle me this; exactly what about Jake's career was impressive? Now, he as a wrestler, you can make the case for. He was a great hand. But what of his career? Any world championships won, huh? How about this, did he ever win a championship while with the WWE?

I guess we're arguing the ever brewing point of the "big fish in a small pond" or "little fish in a big pond" argument. Do you really mean to sit here an tell me that AJ Styles could never make it in the WWE? The fact is, The WWE would have no clue how to use a wrestler like AJ. And yes, when you think TNA, you think Styles, for an entire duration of his career. Other names have come on, but you don't associate them with TNA. Sting will always be a WCW guy, Angle is the closest you come, but even that's more of a WWE name. AJ Styles is what you conjure up when you think of TNA. He us the product's identity. Jake Roberts has never had that chance, because he was busy jobbing out to DiBiase and the like.

Face it; Jake Roberts is a glorified jobber to the stars. Never asked to carry the company. Never even asked to represent the company as a champion, let alone the champion. He was simply a man who put on a good match, and put over the person in front of them. We have places for men like that in wrestling. But they don't get that far in situations like these.

 

[The Holy One]

My vote is for AJ on this one (if it wasn't already obvious). There's no denying that Roberts was a good talker and wrestler, yet I can never see him going over AJ in a setting like this. AJ has beaten guys who use Roberts method of wrestling with a psyche advangtage, Jeff Jarrett and Raven come to mind. Also, Roberts would be the exact type of guy like a Jarrett, Sting, or Angle who would put AJ over in a great feud. I see the Phenomenal One winning this with a Superman at the 16 minute mark of the match.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

I'm sorry, but are we going on the scale of who's career was more impressive. Then riddle me this; exactly what about Jake's career was impressive? Now, he as a wrestler, you can make the case for. He was a great hand. But what of his career? Any world championships won, huh? How about this, did he ever win a championship while with the WWE?

Wins, losses, whatever; doesn't mean all that much to me. Jake was an upper-mid card guy for the WWF during an extremely popular era of wrestling. When A.J. does that, with TNA or whoever, I'll change my vote.

Also, you brought up the career/success aspect when you responded to my original post. Are we keeping it kayfabe? Fine with me. Jake goes over, an it's an even easier argument to make.

I guess we're arguing the ever brewing point of the "big fish in a small pond" or "little fish in a big pond" argument. Do you really mean to sit here an tell me that AJ Styles could never make it in the WWE?

No, that's not what I'm saying. Of course he could, but it hasn't been proven.

And yes, when you think TNA, you think Styles, for an entire duration of his career. Other names have come on, but you don't associate them with TNA. Sting will always be a WCW guy, Angle is the closest you come, but even that's more of a WWE name.

If A.J. is such a huge draw, and he's so high above Jake Roberts, why has he been pushed back into the mid-card this year? I'm not necessarily blaming him, but it's reality.

AJ Styles is what you conjure up when you think of TNA. He us the product's identity. Jake Roberts has never had that chance, because he was busy jobbing out to DiBiase and the like.

He was mid-carder during the Hogan era. That's a positive, not a negative.

Face it; Jake Roberts is a glorified jobber to the stars. Never asked to carry the company. Never even asked to represent the company as a champion, let alone the champion. He was simply a man who put on a good match, and put over the person in front of them. We have places for men like that in wrestling. But they don't get that far in situations like these.

At one point or another during the 1980's, every WWF supertar was a jobber to the stars. No one was moving forward, minus The Ultimate Warrior, while Hogan was on top. Mid carders had the job of putting on great matches before Hogan came on. Jake did that, for millions and millions of people.

Anyway, seeing as I originally made this pick according to kayfabe, that's what I'm sticking to. As a washed up, old man, Jake Roberts made the King of the Ring finals, and lost to Steve Austin (absolutely nothing to be ashamed of). He was far past his prime, and to me that's pretty impressive.

In my opinion, Jake is too cunning and calculating for A.J. I don't expect Jake to win this tournament, but I hope he can at least get past A.J.

 

[ABMorales787]

Talk about Jake's DDT all you want. The Pele is a hell of a lot faster, more adaptable and in todays day and age, more efficient. Jake Roberts has never faced one like AJ. AJ Styles is pretty much a John Cena light in TNA. Yeah, I said it. Face facts. No matter what, he's beloved. By TNA and by most of the IWC. Jake Roberts is most know for his psychology and character. Never in my life have I heard of a Roberts match regarded. Meanwhile has delivered some of the most memorable of this new millennium. VS Sting, Angle, Joe and Daniels, LAX and beyond. They may be recent, but they are 5 star. Jake's performances have never been as consistent as AJ's. He's a modern full package. And in the case of a booker, Jake Roberts would the guy who puts him over.

 

[JGlass]

Jake the Snake Roberts is one of those names that sticks out of wrestling history not because of what he accomplished, but because of who he is. Dedicated, hard-working, interesting, storied, all are words that you could use to describe Jake Roberts. However, he was never a star, he was never even close to being at the top of a major company, and he never really had that match where you had to pause and say, "This guy is on top of the Wrestling world right now."

You can say nearly the opposite of AJ Styles. This guy sticks out in wrestling history not because of who he is, but because of what he's accomplished. Amazing to watch in the ring, has put on his share of absolutely amazing matches, the only guy to win every title available in TNA, and has had a ton of matches where you just have to pause and say, "Wow, this guy is on top of the wrestling world right now!" Well... at least the TNA wrestling world, but being on top of the TNA wrestling world. He's the top guy of that company, and quite frankly probably one of the reasons he's helped it stay afloat as long as it has.

Stick these guys in the Wrestlezone tournament, and I think it's no contest. Jake Roberts just got out of a fight with Bam Bam Bigelow, and nobody just walks away from a fight with Bam Bam Bigelow. AJ Styles, on the other hand, cruised past Masahiro Chorno, and while Jake's tricky offense will be limited by his bangs and bruises from Bigelow, Styles will still be flying high. I could see Jake looking to connect with a DDT but having AJ fight out of it, hit a pele kick to stun the Snake man, and then connecting with Styles Clash for the 1-2-3.

AJ Styles wins this one boys and girls.

 

[Nate DaMac]

I came into this thinking A.J. However, I think Nick got me to go with Jake. It might be my absolute disdain for TNA, but I can't really associate success in TNA with success in the WWE. AJ is a former World Champion in TNA, but so was Christian and Ron Killings and neither were really even close to duplicating that success in the majors.

Now while Jake Roberts was a career mid carder, he was a career mid carder in an era where the mid card was incomparably more popular than it is today. Someone like Jake Roberts would absolutely be a Main Eventer in today's product, while AJ would still just be a TNA guy.

I'm voting Roberts.

 

[ABMorales787]

I came into this thinking A.J. However, I think Nick got me to go with Jake. It might be my absolute disdain for TNA, but I can't really associate success in TNA with success in the WWE. AJ is a former World Champion in TNA, but so was Christian and Ron Killings and neither were really even close to duplicating that success in the majors.

Yup. But there's a major difference between AJ and Killings and Christian. Truth and Christian held the NWA title when TNA was at a young phase with no real big names. Then came the TNA World title. Held by the likes of Sting, Kurt Angle, Rob Van Dam and Jeff Hardy. These same names are also former World Champions in WCW and WWE. Guess who shares in that lineage? Yup AJ Styles. And even so, no matter how you split it, major company, minor company, Jake Roberts never held a single title in a major company. AJ has. Boy has he, too. Now you can make the argument about Jake still being more popular or anything, but that doesn't excuse the lack of success.

Now while Jake Roberts was a career mid carder, he was a career mid carder in an era where the mid card was incomparably more popular than it is today. Someone like Jake Roberts would absolutely be a Main Eventer in today's product, while AJ would still just be a TNA guy.

Meanwhile, AJ Styles has proven to be one of the most versatile men in the profession today. A man that even though is the face of a company, can be placed in any part of the card with no chance of his credibility going down but wherever he's placed cred goes up. He has been the highlight of the X Division since it's inception. His teams with Jerry Lynn and Chris Daniels are among the top teams in TNA's history. He has been the most noted TNA TV/Legends Champion. A belt that in other people's hands has been totally obscure. He and Sting are the only two men to hold both the NWA and TNA World titles. Simply put, if you say Jake Roberts is better than AJ Styles you're saying he's better than other guys with the kind of ability AJ possess, like a Chris Jericho, an Edge, a Rey Mysterio and beyond. You can't seriously tell me Jake Roberts is better because he was a successful mid-carder when the mid-card was important. Wherever AJ Styles is on a card, if it ain't important, he will make it important.

Vote AJ.

I'm voting Roberts.

 

[TheOneBigWill]

I can view this match-up in a type of Savage/Roberts type of way. Outside of someone saying Roberts faced Liger (really, when, video??) - I've never seen Roberts face someone who has the power, speed and agility that Styles brings to the table.. so the closest match-up was Roberts/Savage.

Styles may not have a huge list of major victories under his belt by top catagory names, but it's what he's done with what he has - that's the most important factor of all. Styles has defeated the Main Event guys in his Company. Sting, Angle, Christian, Jarrett, Hardy, etc, etc. Roberts in his prime struggled with guys like Martel, DiBiase, Savage, etc, etc.

While in the first round I pushed the crap out of Roberts for having what it takes to defeat a guy bigger, in Bam Bam. The fact is I look at this in a similar fashion to how I pushed Roberts then. He'd of spent all he had right out of the gate on the much larger opponent, and had little to nothing left.

Styles, on the other hand, has better stamina and the ability to pace himself. Styles is simply too good for Roberts to overcome here, for me.

 

[Hollywood Naitch]

Roberts would come up short in this one, on wrestling ability, athletic ability, speed, technique and almost anything else you can name, AJ Styles is the better man. There is no other main eventer in the business quite like AJ.

Roberts can talk a good game, probably better than almost anyone, but when it comes to getting in the ring with Styles he could not keep up with the speed and high-flying style of Mr TNA.

Jake is often regarded as a legend, but what did he actually accomplish in his career? No major championships, not even one! That is a pitiful return for a man believed to be worthy of the HOF. He was never regarded as good enough to told a title in the WWF, which is a shame as he was very talented.

However, Jake's demons held him back and in the drunken haze he would barely be able to make out Styles rotating in the air before AJ lands on The Snake with the Spiral Tap, pinning his drunken ass for the 1-2-3

AJ advances

 

[JXL]

Jake is diabolical and cunning when it comes to ring psychology (as I said in his matchup with Bigelow), but has never come up against someone like A.J. Styles. He has more of an arsenal to counter whatever Jake can come up with. I can see this as a war between them, but Styles comes up with a counter to the DDT and hits the Styles Clash after a 10 minute match.

My vote: The Phenomenal One.

 

[D-Man]

I'm really pissed... I love Jake Roberts but he could never win here.

AJ Styles is the equivalent of your modern day top star in a wrestling promotion. His overall stardom in today's market is greater than Jake's was when he was a WWE mainstay. AJ's superiority in the ring would shut down Jake's intellect and psychology. And AJ's character is more more important to storylines and a promotion than Jake's ever was.

This is just a matter of one competitor being great and another one just being that much better. I hate to say it but AJ Styles should decisively win here.

 

[Dark Horse]

My heart says Roberts because he was a rather stand out character when I was a kid. My mind however has to go with A.J. Styles, and I don't particularly even like him, but I'm smart enough to be able to compare the two and see that A.J. Styles comes out on top in this one.

I don't think that Roberts stardom should really be questioned here. For all his loses, he was still in there at one of the highest points in wrestling history. He was a Very popular wrestler. Trust me, I was a kid in those days and every kid knew Jake The Snake Roberts, and either loved or hated him which means he was on everyones mind when Hogan, Mach, Warrior and others were on top. Those are hard shadows to stand in, but he did it well.

A.J. Styles however just has too much ability for Roberts. You can try to sell me the cagey veteran angle all day, it just isn't enough. Styles could run circles around him, and hit him with moves he didn't even know how to react to. Roberts is my sentimental favorite but I'm not a kid anymore. A.J. hits the Pele Kick and the Styles Clash at the 17 minute mark, Jake goes out fighting.

 

[wrestlingfan]

Wow. I honestly think Jake the Snake shud win this but it's too much of a gap at this point.