Never Main Evented WM

[BillAlfonso]

As I've said before, I'm relatively new to the IWC so I don't know if this has been discussed. If it has, let me know. Who is the greatest wrestler in WWE history to have never main evented a Wrestlemania? I say WWE because if I didn't then the easy answer would be Sting. I'd say Mr. Perfect or The British Bulldog but I've never seen Steamboat in his prime.

 

[jmt225]

You know who you could make an argument for is Jeff Hardy.

Here's a guy who's now a multiple time World Champion, and one of the most consistently over babyfaces in the company's history, who's been so since the late nineties; however, he has never competed in a Wrestlemania main event, or anything close to it. All his Wrestlemania moments involve mid-card ladder and hardcore matches. That's it. It's really hard to believe when you think about it, that someone that over with the fans has NEVER had a big match at Wrestlemania. His biggest was actually last year's against his brother, and even that was slow built and really didn't mean anything at the end of the day (shit, the match those two had on Smackdown a week later was MUCH better than their 'Mania match).

You can say whatever you want about Jeff Hardy, but the fact of the matter is, the fans love him and he brings that "big match" feel to every match he's in. There's NEVER a dead crowd for a Jeff Hardy match, and it shocks me that WWE never took advantage of that fact by given him more important 'Mania matches.

 

[farlance]

Dude Jeff Hardy just became champion in the last year, and there has only been one WM since then. Sure Im a Hardy fan but no way does he being in the main event make me wanna spend the money for Wrestlemaina. Theres a big difference in people who get over enough to deserve a title reign and getting over enough to headline Wrestlemaina. Look at how many title reigns Edge has and how many of them have headlined WM. I think 2 off the top of my head.

 

[BestIntheWorldatWhatIdo]

You can definitely make a case for Hardy but like farlance said he just started to become a huge star. Who knows this year may be his year to headline a Wrestlemania. You could also make a case for Jerry "The King" Lawler. If I'm going for a active superstar though, I'd have to take Christian or Chris Jericho, correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure neither of these guys were in the last match on a Wrestlemania card.

 

[Watsonation]

How about The Nature Boy! Ric Flair. He never main evented a Wrestlemania. I thought that he did main event WM8, but he did not. He has to be the greatest to have never headlined a Wrestlemania. Its shocking to me that he has not.

 

[Watsonation]

Christian or Chris Jericho, correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure neither of these guys were in the last match on a Wrestlemania card.

Jericho headlined WM18. Many don't remember because its the same event which had The Rock vs Hogan. But anyways, christian IMO is good and well over, but while he's on ECW, he won't headline any 'Mania. IMO, he needs Smackdown to pick him up and then we'll have the peeps rise up.

 

[GJM316]

How about The Nature Boy! Ric Flair. He never main evented a Wrestlemania. I thought that he did main event WM8, but he did not. He has to be the greatest to have never headlined a Wrestlemania. Its shocking to me that he has not.

Wrestlemania 8 was a double main event with Hogan v Sid. Sure, it wasn't the last match on the card but it had equal billing and can be argued as the Main Event, just like HBK v Diesel sharing the Main Event card with Bam Bam and Taylor at Mania 11.

I personally would say Owen Hart. He was a terrific talent who, not only didn't main event Mania, but never won the WWF championship either. Owen was a great trend setter and paved the way for people like Jericho, Malenko, Storm, Benoit, Guerrero etc - technical wrestlers who could also do high flying stuff (3 of whom did main event Mania - Jericho at WM 18, Benoit and Guerrero at WM 20).

 

[loretta]

how about owen hart? he was capable, just look at his WM 10 match with Bret. They should have had Bret vs Owen for the title at WM 11 imo. I would have loved if Owen would have faced Shawn for the title at WM 14 with whole storyline of the Black hart, the sole survivor of the screw job getting revenge against shawn micheals

 

[THTRobtaylor]

The best never to headline WM was probably Rick Rude... In his day he was the best heel WWE had to offer and had the Gulf War not broken out, I really think we'd have seen Rude taking the belt from Warrior, not Slaughter...

Honorable mentions would go to Ricky Steamboat, Harley Race and Perfect...

Flair's WM8 match was promoted as a double main event...so he did headline WM in that sense, his match just wasn't last...

 

[Adalam]

I gotta go with MVP. This guy is solid in the ring and is great on the mic. He may not have had any world title reigns, but he's been going between mid-card and main event a lot recently. He may just be a world title reign away from a trip to Mania Main Event.

 

[jmt225]

Dude Jeff Hardy just became champion in the last year, and there has only been one WM since then.

And? That's still more times than anyone listed in this thread. Owen Hart, Rick Rude, Mr. Perfect, etc. were all great wrestlers, don't get me wrong, but none were World Champions and none of them have ever been as over as Jeff Hardy has been these last few years. In fact, Jeff Hardy's been with WWE, all together, for almost ten years now... that's longer than all those names as well.

So, let's recap. Jeff Hardy has been consistently one of the most over babyfaces in WWE history, is a 3 time World Champion, a 6 time World Tag Team Champion, a 4 time Intercontinental Champion, and has been in the company for nearly 10 years, yet... he has NEVER main evented a Wrestlemania. Yeah, ummm... actually, thinking about it now, it's actually pretty much indisputable that Jeff Hardy is the greatest, most decorated wrestler in WWE history to never main event Wrestlemania. There's no one anyone could list that has accomplished more than Hardy has, without main eventing at least 1 Wrestlemania.

 

[Paradox100]

I've gotta say the best to never main event wrestlemania is Ken Shamrock. (I'm trying to pick someone no one did) Why Ken Shamrock? They brought him into the WWF as this unstoppable badass from the UFC. Former UFC world champion, ass-kicking Irishman, who bulldozed through the competition. When he started wrestling, he made many big name wrestlers tap out, and even defeated The Rock at Wrestlemania 14. (Albeit, the decision was reversed) only a year later, the Rock was main eventing Mania. Ken brought something to the table that he did better than the other wrestlers, he was a great brawler. He was a submission man, he could take pain, and I believe he should have had the title at some point of his career, and a wrestlemania main event.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

And? That's still more times than anyone listed in this thread. Owen Hart, Rick Rude, Mr. Perfect, etc. were all great wrestlers, don't get me wrong, but none were World Champions and none of them have ever been as over as Jeff Hardy has been these last few years. In fact, Jeff Hardy's been with WWE, all together, for almost ten years now... that's longer than all those names as well.

So, let's recap. Jeff Hardy has been consistently one of the most over babyfaces in WWE history, is a 3 time World Champion, a 6 time World Tag Team Champion, a 4 time Intercontinental Champion, and has been in the company for nearly 10 years, yet... he has NEVER main evented a Wrestlemania. Yeah, ummm... actually, thinking about it now, it's actually pretty much indisputable that Jeff Hardy is the greatest, most decorated wrestler in WWE history to never main event Wrestlemania. There's no one anyone could list that has accomplished more than Hardy has, without main eventing at least 1 Wrestlemania.

Jeff Hardy is highly decorated, however comparing people from eras is difficult... For Hardy to win all those titles means he has also lost a lot of titles...

Rude came from an era where you only got a title if you mean something... Hardy came from an era where it was the proverbial hot potato, title changes equalled ratings in the attitude era, hence how he got all those tag belts...

Rude also came from the Hogan era... which meant the face spot was pretty much going to be one of three people... much like today in fact... So to get there, you had to be a heel... Jeff will never headline WM as a heel... he just won't...

Rude WAS a world champion, just not in WWE... he was NWA World Champion 3 times... Which I think proves WWE missed the ball.

When he beat Warrior at WM 5 the title change meant more than Hogan/Savage cos Warrior was unbeaten at that time...

The other thing you are missing is that for a Face to headline WM, they have to be SO over..like Cena, Taker or Hogan... Hardy may well be there now... but he wants a break... the one thing that will prevent him from headlining WM...

At the end of the day, WM doesn't work without an ultra strong heel... Rude was unique in his day in that he had all the pieces to make that work, he had the Brain in his corner, the psychology, could you imagine his tights for a Mania match v Warrior or Hogan?.. He then was far superior to Orton now or in the future...

I mean check this...comparing title matches only...

Headline Wrestlers WM3-9
Hulk Hogan
Andre
Randy Savage
Ted DiBiase
Ultimate Warrior
Sargeant Slaughter
Sid Vicious
Ric Flair
Bret Hart
Yokozuna

Headline Wrestlers WM 19-25
Triple H
Booker T
Brock Lesnar
Kurt Angle
Chris Benoit
Shawn Michaels
Eddie Guerrero
John Cena
JBL
Batista
Rey Misterio
Randy Orton
The Undertaker
Edge
The Big Show

Of the early days... There were only 4 faces in that group... Hogan, Savage, Warrior and Bret... no one alive can say that Andre, Savage Flair and DiBiase were not "rightful" WM headliners.. But equally I doubt anyone could rightfully say Rude was not more worthy or would have not had a better match with any of those 4 faces than Slaughter, Yoko or Sid!!

In the modern era Rey, Taker, Batista, Cena, Eddie, Shawn, Benoit and Booker worked face... Jeff is not up to the standard of these guys match wise and he is no more over than they were at that particular time... he is a guy who headlines Summerslam or the Rumble... not Mania...compared to those guys... his role in mania is the same as Jericho's...

Match of the night... not main event...

 

[RH23]

Im going to say Jeff Hardy. Every WM match he's been in was either for the tag team titles or against his brother or in the MITB and he's lost at every WM. He's arguably the most popular wrestler in WWE right now and if he stays, I could see him finally headlining WM.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

Folks, let me lay this one out for you all, plain and simple.

Jeff Hardy isn't that good. He's certainly not good enough to main event Wrestlemania.

I mean, are you people actually stating that Jeff Hardy is the greatest wrestler ever to not main event a Wrestlemania? I mean, with a straight face? JMT, I expect more of you...

Let's first look at the list of those who HAVE Main Evented Wrestlemania. This takes into consideration double main events as well; any time matches were billed as main events or part of a double main event.

WM1: Hogan, Orndorff, Mr. T, Piper
WM2: Hogan, Bundy
WM3: Hogan, Andre
WM4: Savage, DiBiase
WM5: Hogan, Savage
WM6: Hogan, Warrior
WM7: Hogan, Slaughter
WM8: Hogan, Justice, Flair, Savage (Double ME)
WM9: Hart, Yokozuna
WM10: Luger, Yokozuna, Hart
WM11: Diesel, Michaels
WM12: Hart, Michaels
WM13: Justice, Undertaker
WM14: Michaels, Austin
WM15: Austin, Rock
WM16: Foley, Triple H, Rock, Big Show
WM17: Austin, Rock
WM18: Jericho, Triple H
WM19: Austin, Rock, Lesnar, Angle
WM20: Benoit, Triple H, Michaels, Guerrero, Angle
WM21: Triple H, Batista, Cena, JBL (Double ME)
WM22: Mysterio, Angle, Orton, Triple H, Cena
WM23: Undertaker, Batista, Cena, Michaels
WM24: Orton, Cena, Triple H, Undertaker, Edge
WM25: Triple H, Orton, Cena, Edge, Big Show

The thread starter had the right idea. He picked some decent names for this.

1. Ricky Steamboat. The man beat Flair for the NWA Title in a classic in 1989, owns one-half of what could have been the greatest match in Wrestlemania history at Wrestlemania 3, and even wrestled a top-notch match with Jericho at Wrestlemania 25. Steamboat probably could have main evented a Wrestlemania in the late 80's or early 90's.

2. Mr. Perfect. Curt Henning is a former AWA Champ who defeated Nick Bockwinkle. He's one of the greatest Intercontinental Champions of all time. He was technically supposed to make a WWF Title run, if not for his bad back and then his jump to WCW.

3. Davey Boy Smith. Bulldog main evented a Summer Slam and an In Your House, both vs Bret Hart, but both matches are considered classics. Smith could have main evented Wrestlemania, but during the weaker years, like 11-13.

4. Terry Funk. An NWA, WCW, and Wrestling legend. He was really just a tag team wrestler in early WWF and a hardcore wrestler in late WWF, also largely in tag teams.

5. Jake Roberts. Before the cocaine, before the bible, before it all, Jake Roberts was a hell of a wrestler, both a top babyface and a top heel in a few year stretch. He could have feuded and Main Evented with Hogan, Savage, or Warrior if given the feud.

 

[jmt225]

Jeff Hardy isn't that good. He's certainly not good enough to main event Wrestlemania.

Jeff Hardy actually is that good.

He might not have the promo ability of The Rock, but you put all the personal crap aside, he's a great professional wrestler. The guy constantly puts on good to great matches, and everything he does the fans eat up.

I mean, are you people actually stating that Jeff Hardy is the greatest wrestler ever to not main event a Wrestlemania? I mean, with a straight face?

When you look at the facts, yes, he is. I know it's cool to hate Jeff Hardy these days, but there's no denying his accomplishments, and the fact that he's one of the best, most consistent in-ring competitors currently in WWE and has been so for years now.

Let's first look at the list of those who HAVE Main Evented Wrestlemania. This takes into consideration double main events as well; any time matches were billed as main events or part of a double main event.

WM1: Hogan, Orndorff, Mr. T, Piper
WM2: Hogan, Bundy
WM3: Hogan, Andre
WM4: Savage, DiBiase
WM5: Hogan, Savage
WM6: Hogan, Warrior
WM7: Hogan, Slaughter
WM8: Hogan, Justice, Flair, Savage (Double ME)
WM9: Hart, Yokozuna
WM10: Luger, Yokozuna, Hart
WM11: Diesel, Michaels
WM12: Hart, Michaels
WM13: Justice, Undertaker
WM14: Michaels, Austin
WM15: Austin, Rock
WM16: Foley, Triple H, Rock, Big Show
WM17: Austin, Rock
WM18: Jericho, Triple H
WM19: Austin, Rock, Lesnar, Angle
WM20: Benoit, Triple H, Michaels, Guerrero, Angle
WM21: Triple H, Batista, Cena, JBL (Double ME)
WM22: Mysterio, Angle, Orton, Triple H, Cena
WM23: Undertaker, Batista, Cena, Michaels
WM24: Orton, Cena, Triple H, Undertaker, Edge
WM25: Triple H, Orton, Cena, Edge, Big Show

Out of all those names, Hardy is better or just as good as Orndorff, Mr. T, King Kong Bundy, The Ultimate Warrior, Sargent Slaughter, Sid, Yokozuna, Lex Luger, Nash, HHH, Big Show, Batista, and Mysterio. So, again.... why is it so out of the park to suggest that it's odd someone as over and good as Jeff Hardy has yet to main event a Wrestlemania?

1. Ricky Steamboat. The man beat Flair for the NWA Title in a classic in 1989, owns one-half of what could have been the greatest match in Wrestlemania history at Wrestlemania 3, and even wrestled a top-notch match with Jericho at Wrestlemania 25. Steamboat probably could have main evented a Wrestlemania in the late 80's or early 90's.

Great, great wrestler, but he wasn't in WWE very long, nor it is known if he could ever carry a main storyline for a long period of time, like it would have been required back in those days to do so to main event Wrestlemania. All Ricky's feuds (both of them, lol) were all match-centered; really no storyline and promos took place.

2. Mr. Perfect. Curt Henning is a former AWA Champ who defeated Nick Bockwinkle. He's one of the greatest Intercontinental Champions of all time. He was technically supposed to make a WWF Title run, if not for his bad back and then his jump to WCW.

The one person I say comes close to Hardy more than any other. Great worker, talker, over with the fans, etc. You give me Perfect vs. Hogan for Wrestlemania 6 instead of Hogan vs. Warrior and I definitely don't complain. That said, his credentials and accomplishments still don't match up to Hardy's.

3. Davey Boy Smith. Bulldog main evented a Summer Slam and an In Your House, both vs Bret Hart, but both matches are considered classics. Smith could have main evented Wrestlemania, but during the weaker years, like 11-13.

Just like Steamboat, very good in the ring, but wasn't able to carry a storyline long enough to build to a Wrestlemania main event and have people want to buy it. Plus, Davey Boy was never over enough with the crowd to ever main event at Wrestlemania (after all, no Wrestlemania ever took place in England). Seriously, he was liked or disliked, not love or hated. You have to be loved or hated to be able to headline a Wrestlemania, especially back then.

4. Terry Funk. An NWA, WCW, and Wrestling legend. He was really just a tag team wrestler in early WWF and a hardcore wrestler in late WWF, also largely in tag teams.

Terry Funk doesn't count though, man. He was in WWE for two seconds.

I mean, if we're going to include wrestlers who never made an impact in WWE, then I change my answer to Sting. But since people should keep it in the realm of possibility, Jeff Hardy is my choice. And it was NEVER possible for Terry Funk to main event Wrestlemania. Maybe 2, and God knows that would've been MUCH better than what we ended up with, but at the end of the day... Funk didn't wrestle long enough in the company to deserve to wrestle in the main event at 'Mania.

5. Jake Roberts. Before the cocaine, before the bible, before it all, Jake Roberts was a hell of a wrestler, both a top babyface and a top heel in a few year stretch. He could have feuded and Main Evented with Hogan, Savage, or Warrior if given the feud.

People don't like to admit it, but Jake's matches were shit. Seriously, look at his matches... there aren't many "classics" are they? You know why? Because he wasn't very good in the ring. The guy was just cool as fuck and had charisma out this World and could talk his ass off, but he could NEVER put on the type of match that's worthy of main eventing a Wrestlemania, especially if you want to cast him over a worker like Jeff Hardy, who tears the house down pretty much EVERY time he performs.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

Okay, sweet, jmt and I have a little tussle going here.

Out of all those names, Hardy is better or just as good as Orndorff, Mr. T, King Kong Bundy, The Ultimate Warrior, Sargent Slaughter, Sid, Yokozuna, Lex Luger, Nash, HHH, Big Show, Batista, and Mysterio. So, again.... why is it so out of the park to suggest that it's odd someone as over and good as Jeff Hardy has yet to main event a Wrestlemania?

Wow, where to begin?

Let me start by stating that I am in no way saying that there aren't a multitude of guys better than the old school main eventers. I mean, King Kong Bundy? But still, the talent roster wasn't very deep at the time, and they went with the best booking option to develop Hogan.

Orndorf is better than Hardy. Better matches, better talker, far better heel.

Mr. T and Bundy you get no argument from me. Mr. T. isn't even a pro wrestler and I've always thought Bundy was shit.

Hardy better than The Ultimate Warrior? Are you kidding me? Warrior as a professional wrestler was significantly above Hardy. Warrior was THE GUY for a portion of the late 80's and early 90's while Hogan was still around! He main evented SummerSlam OVER Hogan one year. And at Wrestlemania 7, he stole the show from the Hulkster. At Wrestlemania 8, Warrior SAVED the main event at the end.

Slaughter is one of the best heels we've seen in the last 20 years of wrestling. Sure, he took advantage of a cultural situation, but he did so effectively. His "Ultimate Puke" promo and his anti-American promos were ULTRA effective. He wasn't athletic, but he was an effective character.

Sid and Hardy are so different, but overall I'd still give the nod to Sid. Hell, he main evented two Wrestlemanias, and has quite possibly the best pure look in the history of the business.

Yokozuna was significantly better, more effective, and more important that Hardy. Yokozuna was the most imposing heel champion, possibly in wrestling history. He captured people's attention for more than a year as champion, and held fantastic feuds with men named Undertaker, Hart, Luger, Hogan, Steiner, Tatanka, Duggan, etc.

Luger was better than Hardy. More relevant, more interesting. Are you making the mistake so many others make, mistaking high spots for wrestling skill? Granted, Luger's not an all time favorite of mine, and he's probably the single biggest waste of wrestling booking team's mega-pushes in history (WWF or WCW). But he was more effective as an overall professional wrestler than Hardy was.

Nash and HHH. Wait, wait, wait. Did you just say Jeff Hardy was a better wrestler, or as good a wrestler, as Kevin Nash and Triple H? PLEASE explain why, because this is just too ridiculous for words.

Big Show, Batista, Mysterio. Equal with Big Show, better than Mysterio, not as good as Batista.

When you look at the facts, yes, he is. I know it's cool to hate Jeff Hardy these days, but there's no denying his accomplishments, and the fact that he's one of the best, most consistent in-ring competitors currently in WWE and has been so for years now.

I am not "hating" on Jeff Hardy, nor am I trying to be "cool." I like the guy, always have, always will.

I am missing what "facts" you are referring to. The fact that he's only as good as the champion he is chasing? The fact that he's a bit of a spot monkey? The fact that his 3 WWE / WHC reigns have been meaningless, transitional, and virtually non-existant? The fact that, combined, his 3 reigns have lasted less than 2 months?

Terry Funk doesn't count though, man. He was in WWE for two seconds.

Fair enough. I went back and the thread started DID specific WWE guy. So Funk is out. Steamboat was there for a cup of coffee, but he was in WWE as an active wrestler longer than Lesnar was. Plus, he does have his name come up in "best WWF match of all time" discussions.

So let's say you remove Funk and Steamboat. We agree on Curt Henning.

What about (despite his short time) Vader? He dominated for a year and was actually supposed to take the WWF title off Michaels, until the cry baby clause was called on the match.

Iron Sheik? He won the tag belts at Wrestlemania 1, and he was the last champion before Hogan until Wrestlemania 4.

Bruno Sammartino? Now HERE is a good one. When "Showdown at Shea" occured, many fans went to see Sammartino vs Zbysko, not just Hogan vs Andre. But in 1986 - 1987, Bruno returned to the WWF (at the behest of Vince Jr. and Bruno's son David) to feud with Jimmy Valiant, Brutus Beefcake, Randy Savage, Adrian Adonis, Roddy Piper, and Cowboy Bob Orton. Think, for a moment, how history would look if Vince had placed Sammartino in the main event of Wrestlemania 2 instead of King Kong Flabbytits. Incidentally, Bruno's last WWF match was teaming up with Hogan to wrestle Bundy and One Man Gang.

You know what? There it is. Sammartino - greatest wrestler EVER not to main event a Wrestlemania.

JMT, you wanna tell me Hardy is better than Sammartino???

 

[THTRobtaylor]

You know what? There it is. Sammartino - greatest wrestler EVER not to main event a Wrestlemania.

JMT, you wanna tell me Hardy is better than Sammartino???

No way is Hardy better than Sammartino, but Sammartino was well past his prime by 1985...

Terry Funk is an interesting one, but until his hardcore reinvention he was well past his prime in 86...

With this debate, I think it's important to be clear that we should be talking about guys IN THEIR PRIME... So sadly for a lot of guys Mania came just too late... ditto for Dory/Terry Funk, Backlund, Billy Graham and Jesse Ventura... If WM had started in 1981 or 83 then yes... Bruno...or Harley...

Hogan capitalised on the era...

I stand by Rude as my pick... but again it comes down to the fact that both eras have been dominated by faces who were not the better workers... the better workers have ALWAYS been the heels...

 

[FromTheSouth]

The best wrestler to never main event Wrestlemania is Mr. Perfect. He was the perfect 80's heel. He was arrogant and then he backed it up. Too often now, arrogant heels are made to look like fools in the ring. In the 80's, everyone was a tough guy, and the arrogant heel could more than justify his arrogance. Mr. perfect was a perfect example of this.

Perfect also owned a win over Hogan. On SNME, Hogan was disqualified for using Perfect's brass knuckles. A win is a win, and that should have catapulted Perfect to the main event. I am surprised that a man with much in-ring and mic ability was never WWE champ. He was a multiple time AWA champion.

Now, onto the Jeff Hardy debate...

I am a Jeff Hardy fan. I want to put that out there to start.

I agree with JMT that he deserves to main event Wrestlemania. WM used to be about the culmination of year long stories. The main event for WM V started building right after WM III, and was executed perfectly over those two years. Jeff Hardy has been in a two year long story that looks like a video game storyline. He has gotten rub from HHH, HBK, Jericho, Orton (to an extent), and Edge over that time. These men account for over 30 World Championships. He has gone from number one contender to IC champ to World Champ to feuding with his brother to getting robbed to finally winning. They worked his suspension in and made it look as if it was part of the story. There are themes of perseverance, redemption, and loyalty. He truly is on equal footing with anyone currently in the company. What better way for him to end his storyline than with a win over an established multiple time champion to end Wrestlemania. If the buildup of the feud showed Jeff getting overpowered, then outsmarted, and then, finally, beaten down, only to win as the pyro explodes and the show goes off the air. Do you not think that this would be a fitting end to Mania? It's one man's personal journey from tag team jobber to the top of the business. There are movies that couldn't master this storyline the way Jeff and the WWE did.

Next, is anyone more over that Jeff Hardy? If Mania is your biggest event, then why would you not want your biggest star headlining it? He may not have the mainstream appeal of John Cena that you might want at Wrestlemania, but you put Shaq vs. Show or Kim Kardashian in a bikini match on the card, and you can draw the slightly interested. At a time when ratings are stagnant, it seems that rewarding the loyal fans with Jeff main eventing Wrestlemania is fitting.

Third, has there ever been a bad Jeff Hardy match? He sells the hell out of his opponent's offense. This is why HHH likes working with him. Even in a loss, his opponent always looks good. Only Jeff Hardy, Jericho, Cena, and HBK can say that in the current WWE. Combining the fans love of Hardy and his ability to look like he has no chance of winning, we're talking about a compelling match that would certainly draw in people who happened to want Buffalo Wild Wings that night and just happened to catch Wrestlemania cause it was on all the TV's. I think that the only reason that Jeff Hardy isn't as famous as Cena or HHH is because he never had the chance. He has that mass appeal and the style of wrestling that brings people in.

Plus, it's hard to call him a spot monkey anymore. The only things he does that involve flipping and jumping anymore are the swanton and the whisper in the wind. The rest of his matches show him to be quite aggressive with the strikes. Also, the majority of his matches now involve his selling, which, as I have already stated, is what he is the best at.

 

[Kenny Powers]

I have nothing against Jeff Hardy either but JMT is acting like Hardy is the greatest wrestler ever to lace up a pair of boots and put glow in the dark paint on. My grouping would be around the same, Sting, Sammartino, Curt Henning, Rick Rude, and Ricky Steamboat. I guess you could say well the only ones that stayed in the company for a while were Rude and Mr.Perfect out of that group so I'll go with Perfect. I do think Jake the Snake is one of the best heels of all time if not the best. Jake might not be the greatest in ring performer but he had great psychology. He may night be able to do a swanton bomb but who needs to do a frickin Swanton to be entertaining? I wouldn't put Jeff too high on a pedestal because the guy is probably out the door soon again anyways.

 

[48.7 is Approximately 49 Times Better Than You]

Bruno Sammartino? Now HERE is a good one. When "Showdown at Shea" occured, many fans went to see Sammartino vs Zbysko, not just Hogan vs Andre. But in 1986 - 1987, Bruno returned to the WWF (at the behest of Vince Jr. and Bruno's son David) to feud with Jimmy Valiant, Brutus Beefcake, Randy Savage, Adrian Adonis, Roddy Piper, and Cowboy Bob Orton. Think, for a moment, how history would look if Vince had placed Sammartino in the main event of Wrestlemania 2 instead of King Kong Flabbytits. Incidentally, Bruno's last WWF match was teaming up with Hogan to wrestle Bundy and One Man Gang.

You know what? There it is. Sammartino - greatest wrestler EVER not to main event a Wrestlemania.

Now, does this really count? Sammartino was 49 when the first WrestleMania was held. Sure he had two or three years where he could have been in the main event, but for what? He was an old man at this point, and it would have served no purpose. Vince McMahon tried to make something out of Bundy, and while it failed, it was still a good idea to try and create a star than put a 50 year-old Sammartino in the main event. I suppose you could say he is the greatest ever to never be in the main event, but he hardly had the opportunity.

As for me, I'll take Kane.

Kane has been a workhorse in the WWE for over a decade now. He's been a solid performer his entire career, has always been over, and could have had a great WrestleMania main event. If you built him up as a dominate heel champion, he could have given an amazing rub to an up-and-coming talent.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

No way is Hardy better than Sammartino, but Sammartino was well past his prime by 1985...

Okay, fair enough, but you cannot tell me that you wouldn't take Bruno Sammartino past his prime vs Hulk Hogan IN his prime over Hogan / Bundy, would you? Sammartino NOW is better than Bundy EVER. At least around Wrestlemania 2, Sammartino still had 4 years of in-ring work left in him, and imagine the passing of THAT torch.

Terry Funk is an interesting one, but until his hardcore reinvention he was well past his prime in 86...

Not sure I agree, but you can certainly make the case.

With this debate, I think it's important to be clear that we should be talking about guys IN THEIR PRIME... So sadly for a lot of guys Mania came just too late... ditto for Dory/Terry Funk, Backlund, Billy Graham and Jesse Ventura... If WM had started in 1981 or 83 then yes... Bruno...or Harley...

Why does it have to be guys IN their primes? Hogan did some of his best work in the nWo and late with WWE when he was well past his prime. Ditto Flair. Ditto Michaels. Triple H is now 40 and still puts on a great match. Undertaker stole the show last year, and he's a decade past his prime. Austin was way past his prime at Wrestlemania 19.

I stand by Rude as my pick... but again it comes down to the fact that both eras have been dominated by faces who were not the better workers... the better workers have ALWAYS been the heels...

I think it's a brilliant pick. I have never been a huge Rude fan, but I respect the man and the fact that he's a solid heel. He's also one of only two men with title wins over The Ultimate Warrior.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

Not sure I agree, but you can certainly make the case.



Why does it have to be guys IN their primes? Hogan did some of his best work in the nWo and late with WWE when he was well past his prime. Ditto Flair. Ditto Michaels. Triple H is now 40 and still puts on a great match. Undertaker stole the show last year, and he's a decade past his prime. Austin was way past his prime at Wrestlemania 19.

In the case of Funk, he won his NWA World title in 1975... ten years later Vince made him a Tag Team wrestler and allowing the Jimmy Jack Funk debacle... I agree in 89 he had a small resurgence with Flair... but that sowed the seeds for his Hardcore career rather than a main event run...



As to why it has to be guys in their prime... If it isn't then Karl Gotch is the best never to headline WM... or Gorgeous George...

It has to be in context...its the only way you can compare guys from different eras... the reality is guys of the older generation did not have the conditioning that current wrestlers have... guys from Sammartino's era did not work with the same kind of fitness that a Shawn or Triple H does... in 1985 poor diet, drug uses and alchohol meant a 40 year old WWF wrestler would be nearing the end of, if not finished their career unless they were particularly over like a Sammartino... Today with modern exercise and athleticism, 40 is the prime for many as wrestlers look after their bodies totally differently and work a different style. In terms of drawing too, things are different between eras... WWF in 85 was a Multi Million dollar entity, today nearer to a billion... how do you define the yardstick... if you go on attendance (real not inflated) then Davey Boy Smith wins... as he drew 82,000 to Wembley for A SUMMERSLAM!!! If it's on dollars drawn, then Harley Race drew more over a longer period nationwide than many... but he never headlined in the New York territory... On adjusted dollars and ratings... Gorgeous George or Buddy Rogers would be the biggest draws...

You have to draw a line... by taking guys at the peak of their powers... then you are drawing as close as you can...

 

[IrishCanadian25]

Now, does this really count? Sammartino was 49 when the first WrestleMania was held. Sure he had two or three years where he could have been in the main event, but for what? He was an old man at this point, and it would have served no purpose.

1. Ric Flair was 59 years old when he faced Shawn Michaels in the anticipated retirement match at Wrestlemania 24.

2. Shawn Michaels was 44 when he faced the Undertaker at Wrestlemania 25. Incidentally, Undertaker was also 44.

3. At Wrestlemania 18, Hulk Hogan was 49 years old when he faced The Rock in one of the all time most anticipated show downs ever.

4. Also at Wrestlemania 25, the "show was stolen" by Ricky Steamboat, who at the time, was 56 years old and still cut one hell of a promo.

5. If Steve Austin ever wrestles again, which many people want to see him do, he'll be at least 45.

6. At Wrestlemania 19, Vince McMahon faced Hulk Hogan in a street fight. At the time, McMahon was 58 years old. Hogan was 50. Both older than Sammartino would have been at Wrestlemania 2.

Dude, Sammartino main eventing Wrestlemania 2 would have been an amazing and historically significant show-down between two of the three longest reigning WWF Champions in history (Sammartino #1, Hogan #3). Tell me we wouldn't look back on that match fondly just out of significance, even if not for the match quality itself.

Vince McMahon tried to make something out of Bundy, and while it failed, it was still a good idea to try and create a star than put a 50 year-old Sammartino in the main event. I suppose you could say he is the greatest ever to never be in the main event, but he hardly had the opportunity.

Wrong-o. I'd take a 49-year old Sammartino who had spent more than 20% of his life on ONE WWF title reign than The Michelin Man ANYDAY. and he damn sure did have the opportunity, McMahon just didn't think to give it to him.

As for me, I'll take Kane.

Okie dokie, rail against the longest reigning WWF Champion of all time because he would have been 29 years old and you go in favor of the biggest Jobber to the Stars of all time? Has Kane every main evented ANY PPV aside from his first blood match with Austin? Ever?

Kane has been a workhorse in the WWE for over a decade now.

Overall, Glen Jacobs has been with the WWE for 14 years. As Kane for 12 years. That's just over one year less than Bob Holly, unless you count his 1991 jobber days. Do you wanna give Holly the Main Event at Wrestlemania too?

He's been a solid performer his entire career, has always been over, and could have had a great WrestleMania main event. If you built him up as a dominate heel champion, he could have given an amazing rub to an up-and-coming talent.

Meh, tell me, other than Undertaker, who has Kane had a truly memorable match with? Maybe HHH with the mask removal?

 

[owenhartfan]

IC25- That was a really well backed up post written to JMT and I agreed with mostly all of it. I also believe that wrestlers like slaughter, Kevin Nash, Luger, yoko, Paul Ordoff, etc. were all more effective and relevant compared to Hardy in their times. I agree with the fact that Jeff Hardy is a spot monkey, but I think he deserves a little more credit then that when speaking of inring abilities. I would also like to say your posts are the best i've seen on here thus far and looking foward to reading more debates like these with other posters from you. One more thing, I was also a mark for Marty growing up lol...He was actually my favorite wrestler over Hogan even and I don't [/B]ever being as happy during a wrestling moment then when he returned on raw and beat HBK for the IC title. Its rare ro meet another Marty fan so i thought it was funny.

Owen Hart-
Was already mentioned. I was a huge mark for Owen ever since the debut of The Rocket. Owen was an amazing inring worker that got over huge as a heel in 1994 because the white hot feud with Bret. He wasn't a headline at a wrestle mania because wasn't the top heel in the company at the time with Yoko and Michaels there.

Scott Hall/ Razor Ramon

I think Razor was over enough to take a run a the world title and the ME at a Wrestle Mania. Surpised He wasn't mentioned yet. Razor was huge and stayed in the IC ranks for years without ever getting a world title shot from what I remember.

Rick Rude/ Henning- Both talked about several times. Two of the most effective heels of all time. I believe Curt is the best to not headline a Wrestle Mania also. Wish it was Perfect v.s Hogan WM 7. I believe Henning is also the best wrestler to not hold the WWE world title.

RVD- Yes you can claim his is a spot money also, but an awesome talent that got over right away with the WWE fans and should have been pushed better and sooner then he was. RVD's crowd responce soon after joining in 01 reminded me of how Stone Cold got big out of nowhere. The fans wanted Stone Cold as a face and they wanted RVD in the main event. When he finally got his main event push YEARS LATER it seemed like he had lost a little of his popularity, but IMO he was still good enough to be the main event at a wreslte mania.