**MERGED** Jack Swagger, Zeb Coulter & Swagger's Arrest (Keep it all here!!)

mikeyado

Elegantly Wasted Superstar
So last night on Raw, Jack Swagger was accompanied to the ring by a portly middle aged bloke with an exceptional moustache.

After Swagger squashed Zack Ryder, he introduced the man as a friend of his by the name of Zeb Colter. Colter then proceeded to cut a promo about how America's virtue is being eroded by, basically, a liberal immigration policy and about how people like him and Swagger were patriots who stood up for American and wanted to keep it for Americans only.

It was a good promo, no doubt. I think it will draw Swagger some legit heat too (he needs somebody to do it for him) but I have my doubts about it. I wonder if a crazy, slightly racist right winger angle might not seriously offend some people. For it to work, Swagger must surely target some none- WASP superstars (Kofi? ADR? Jinder Mahal?), which again might be borderline offensive.

What I want your thoughts on, is:-

1.) Do you think this gimmick will work for Swagger and get him over as a heel?
2.) Who do you think his first feud using this persona will be against?
3.) Do you think WWE will have the balls to persist with this gimmick over a reasonable period of time, at the risk of cutting to close to the bone?

Go!
 
".... portly middle aged bloke with an exceptional moustache."

Learn your history, son. That was Dirty Dutch Mantell.

That said, I agree with you. Swagger does need someone who can cut a good promo, since he really falters in that aspect. And, I honestly think that this gimmick can work for him, given that he's gone from "The All-American American' to "A Real American." It's a subtle change, but the subtle changes are the ones that are the most believable.

I am disturbed by one thing. This gimmick is going to be seen by a lot of people, including the OP, as a baseline attitude of the right wing. While I'm not a Republican, none of the Republicans I know share this attitude. And, from my own research, which is fairly extensive, the attitude held by Zeb and Swagger represent the extreme fringe of right-wing American society. (As a point of reference, I'm a center-right independent, with leanings toward being a Libertarian.)

The OP has already displayed that this gimmick will not be solely used as a means of showing that these two characters have extreme views, that go against the basic human decency that is the basis for society, and should be shunned because of it. These two characters will be used as a strawman argument, to try to paint a large segment of society with that brush.

And, yes, mikeyado, I'm directly calling you out on this. There was absolutely no reason for you to bring political affiliations into the discussion, unless you were going to go in that direction. And, worse yet, you started the conversation with that strawman.

As presented, are the characters douchebags? Yes. Do we have a full understanding of what they mean by "real Americans?" No. Have some people already jumped taint-first into the "Republicans are evil" bandwagon, because of a single promo? Well, if mikeyado is any indication, damn right people have.

Can we, please, for once, put down the politics, and just watch exaggerated characters on a television show, without trying to claim that entire portions of society subscribe to the fringe idiocy held by a couple of fictional characters?
 
All the potential in the world for awesomeness, and mega heat.

Unfotunately, all its gonna take is one sponsor to get their panties all in a bunch about it, and its right out the fucking window, and Swagger goes back to doing nothing.

I have the biggest hope and the biggest fear for this.

Also, Dutch Mantell FTW. Hilarious on commentary, for those wondering.
 
It makes sense to have Swagger win at Elimination Chamber and have an awesome feud with Del Rio. It might rub the more sensitive people the wrong way but it would generate more heat for Swagger and more support for Del Rio. It's win-win
 
".... portly middle aged bloke with an exceptional moustache."

Learn your history, son. That was Dirty Dutch Mantell.

That said, I agree with you. Swagger does need someone who can cut a good promo, since he really falters in that aspect. And, I honestly think that this gimmick can work for him, given that he's gone from "The All-American American' to "A Real American." It's a subtle change, but the subtle changes are the ones that are the most believable.

I am disturbed by one thing. This gimmick is going to be seen by a lot of people, including the OP, as a baseline attitude of the right wing. While I'm not a Republican, none of the Republicans I know share this attitude. And, from my own research, which is fairly extensive, the attitude held by Zeb and Swagger represent the extreme fringe of right-wing American society. (As a point of reference, I'm a center-right independent, with leanings toward being a Libertarian.)

The OP has already displayed that this gimmick will not be solely used as a means of showing that these two characters have extreme views, that go against the basic human decency that is the basis for society, and should be shunned because of it. These two characters will be used as a strawman argument, to try to paint a large segment of society with that brush.

And, yes, mikeyado, I'm directly calling you out on this. There was absolutely no reason for you to bring political affiliations into the discussion, unless you were going to go in that direction. And, worse yet, you started the conversation with that strawman.

As presented, are the characters douchebags? Yes. Do we have a full understanding of what they mean by "real Americans?" No. Have some people already jumped taint-first into the "Republicans are evil" bandwagon, because of a single promo? Well, if mikeyado is any indication, damn right people have.

Can we, please, for once, put down the politics, and just watch exaggerated characters on a television show, without trying to claim that entire portions of society subscribe to the fringe idiocy held by a couple of fictional characters?

Woah, woah and indeed woah. Did I use the word Republican at any point in the O.P? No.

Did I characterise the views espoused by Colter (and yes, I know it was Dutch Mantel- I defined him as a 'bloke' because at that point, Kayfabe, we didn't know who he was) and Swagger as right wing- yes. Because that is what they were.

Did I criticise any political leaning which might be held by anybody, right, centre or otherwise? No. I called the character idiotic and borderline racist, because that's how he came across. I did not say that everyone right of centre is like this, I said that these characters, who display right of centre opinions, are like this. BIG DIFFERENCE.

Stop getting carried away with yourself and save your impassioned rhetoric for a student demo or something. Im talking about rasslin.
 
Unfotunately, all its gonna take is one sponsor to get their panties all in a bunch about it, and its right out the fucking window, and Swagger goes back to doing nothing.

\

This was my thought when I saw it. The WWE has had a hard time trying to get away with a few things and this might be one of them. I love the gimmick though. They can probably get away with it for awhile as long as they don't cross the line with some of the stuff Mantel says. He's really going to have to stick to the script because I can see him ad libbing something that will put Swagger right back to low-card status again.
 
Last night's promo featuring Zeb, better known as "Dirty" Dutch Mantel, was interesting and highly unexpected.

Listening to him, at times, made him come across like a bigoted redneck, albeit an articulate one. It made me slightly uncomfortable and that's a big reason why I enjoyed it so much. The topic of illegal immigration has been one of the most heated of the past decade or so. There are extremes on both ends of the issues. Some are accused of being racists for their stances, some are legitimately concerned about simply just anybody crossing into the country after 9/11.

While nothing extreme was said, it worked and it came about nicely. At the beginning, Zeb was given the What treatment. However, by the middle of his promo, all the What chants faded away and people were really listening to what he said. This has the potential to draw some major heat for Jack Swagger.

It also gave me the impression that they're working towards a feud with Alberto Del Rio. Del Rio is Mexican, he's the World Heavyweight Champion and Jack Swagger will be in the Elimination Chamber match this Sunday. The writing is on the wall.
 
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I am disturbed by one thing. This gimmick is going to be seen by a lot of people, including the OP, as a baseline attitude of the right wing. While I'm not a Republican, none of the Republicans I know share this attitude. And, from my own research, which is fairly extensive, the attitude held by Zeb and Swagger represent the extreme fringe of right-wing American society. (As a point of reference, I'm a center-right independent, with leanings toward being a Libertarian.)

No one ever used the word "baseline" to describe the right-wing leaning attitude of Jack Swagger's new character. In fact, good wrestling characters can NEVER be described as the baseline of any group. Good characters work in superlatives - they are the best of us, the worst of us, the most, the least, etc. Jack Swagger's new character is the most conservative he can be - an extreme right winger. It's not meant to be seen as the "norm" for conservatives.

Now do I think this character will work? Time will tell, but it's a start. A few months ago, there was a thread that asked what went wrong with Jack Swagger - and my response was his lack of character. There was no word or phrase you could say that make you think of Swagger. For example, when you say The Deadman, you think of 'Taker. When you say the most electrifying wrestler, you think of Rock. When you say straight-edge, you think of Punk. But there was nothing you could say that would make someone think of Swagger. I can't guarantee this will be it for Swagger - but it's a damn good start.
 
These politically correct times scream for an angle like this, yet political correctness is probably the reason we haven't seen it yet. It should be interesting, not only for it's content, but to see how long it lasts before some people start screaming their outrage. (No one gets "mad" anymore. Today, they're "outraged").

Of course, poor Jack needs someone to speak for him, and ol' Dutch Mantell is an inspired choice. He brings the heat, and portrays the character exactly as you'd expect. Meanwhile, Swagger is the right guy as the muscle in Zeb's act, since he's been playing the "real American" role all along.

Got to like those "true" American patriots. They love their country.....while hating 90% of the people who live in it.
 
I've enjoyed Swagger's return and new attitude and was surprised at the direction they went last night. Personally I think a heel with social relevance is a good idea but I can't see the gimmick lasting in the politically correct era we live in, sadly.

I hope if it lasts a few months they don't jump into Swagger vs Del Rio at Mania. Instead I'd have Swagger feud with Rey to build him towards a WHC match with Bertie after Mania.
 
Having a guy like Colter as a mouthpiece for Swagger is a fantastic idea. Especially a guy who can cut a promo like Colter did last night. I compare his promo to the way that Mohammed Hassan used to cut promos about prejudice towards Muslims and Middle Eastern people. The main difference is that Hassan's promos appeared to be forced and acted out with little truth behind his words. I felt Colter's promo was very effective and believable and (as I've always said about pro-wrestling) believability is the key to any angle or storyline being successful.

Vince and the WWE has tackled many touchy subjects in the past (i.e. religion, racism, necrophilia, etc.) and it appears he's using Linda's senate run as inspiration to start a political character and angle. Personally, I love it.

Besides, anything that takes the focus off Jack's speech impediment and puts it on this actual wrestling talent is fine in my book. And might I add that changing Swagger's moniker from "The All-American American" to "A Real American" is fucking brilliant.
 
They will be walking a fine line here with the whole immigration concept. But it has been done before, most recently I can think of JBL protecting the Mexican/American border. But with Zeb/Dutch, it just seems to scream "Old Racist White Man". I hope the 'E can pull this off as it finally gives something to Swagger's character as well as a great mouthpiece.
 
Having a guy like Colter as a mouthpiece for Swagger is a fantastic idea. Especially a guy who can cut a promo like Colter did last night. I compare his promo to the way that Mohammed Hassan used to cut promos about prejudice towards Muslims and Middle Eastern people. The main difference is that Hassan's promos appeared to be forced and acted out with little truth behind his words. I felt Colter's promo was very effective and believable and (as I've always said about pro-wrestling) believability is the key to any angle or storyline being successful.

Vince and the WWE has tackled many touchy subjects in the past (i.e. religion, racism, necrophilia, etc.) and it appears he's using Linda's senate run as inspiration to start a political character and angle. Personally, I love it.

Besides, anything that takes the focus off Jack's speech impediment and puts it on this actual wrestling talent is fine in my book. And might I add that changing Swagger's moniker from "The All-American American" to "A Real American" is fucking brilliant.



I agree, this is a fantastic idea. They should have done this in the first place. Swagger, although he just has longer hair and a beard now, looks more like the pioneering "American" and along with Zeb, this could be interesting. It's good to see Zeb Coulter again (I wasn't alive when he was performing as a wrestler), it's been a few years since he's been in the mainstream spotlight.

Anyway, the fact that he is called "Zeb Coulter" instead of his ring/author name "Dutch Mantell" is PHENOMINAL. His real name sounds far more "American" and the way he dresses is just perfect. His facial hair screams American (although I think it's of European origin) and that promo...

I have not heard an edgy effective promo like that in quite some time. Yes, there's been curse words. Yes, Punk and Heyman made fun of Jerry's heart attack. However, that was "border"line racially insensitive and is clear bigotry. I swear I saw a parent cover their kids ears in the crowd, which PROVES it is effective.

Like a few people before commented, I really hope they don't indicate this as the average conservative's views. I am VERY conservative, always vote Republican, but this is not my view, this how people think when they view ME as a liberal. They're so far "right wing" that their hanging onto the tip. Now, they've done stuff like this befor though. Look at JBL's feud with Guerrero; he was acctually "HUNTING" people out on the border!!

Regardless, politics aren't the point, the entertainment is. I'm excited about this gimmick/persona. Swagger PUMMELED Ryder last night; somehow Ryder was bleeding out of his mouth, probably bit his tongue or something. However, Swagger's new move-set is much rougher and more impressive, and I think he can make it seem more "American" if he goes and looks at past wrestling moves, though many that he was using looked like classic stuff.

*FINGERS CROSSED*
 
The whole gimmick will be a straight up heat magnet. Swagger has never been able to draw real heat, so this should work at doing that.

Problem is, I don't see it lasting at all. Somebody with some clout will almost assuredly get upset over it and the E's asshole will definitely pucker up and they'll drop it and Swagger will go back to being the most boring "superstar" in the WWE.

We live in an overly PC world. It's just something we to have to deal with anymore.
 
I believe that this is Jack Swagger's last chance, if he doesn't perform adequately he will be either demoted for good or will soon join Aces and Eights and feud with Kurt Angle over drunken tweets and Ankle Locks.

However, I believe that giving him a manager is the best they could have done to at least cover most of his verbal shortcomings.
 
I don't see the point of this. As much as we all want edgy and managers, I don't see the risk outweighing the reward. Why waste a controversial character on Swagger? I know he needs heat but as short as the Universe's memories tend to be, we remember who Jack Swagger is and what he can do. At best he has a decent run mauling Sin Cara and Mysterio only to lose to Del Rio and head back down the SD card without incident. At worst this becomes a PR nightmare for WWE with crowd fights and parents turning off their kids TVs.

On top of all that, how am I supposed to believe that Vickie or even Booker is willing to work with this guy? It may lead to some adult style entertainment but overall I am expecting a huge failure. Then again I expect that from anything Swagger touches.

Prediction: Swagger wins for a while and no one really cares only to be knocked down a peg by Del Rio. WWE will struggle to find him something to do for a bit and then they'll set him up as Cesaro's tag team partner.
 
I've never remotely given a flying fuck about Jack Swagger, but I was listening attentively last night, and that promo by Zeb Coulter was awesome. This is EXACTLY what Swagger needs, and my only surprise is that the creative team pulled the trigger on a surprisingly racy (no pun intended) angle like this.

I love the subtle changes they've made to Swagger. They didn't totally repackage him, but he looks meaner with his beard and his unkempt hair, he finally has a mouthpiece who can progress a story with him, I like the rebranding of the Ankle Lock to the "Patriot Act," and I love ditching the silly-sounding "All-American American" for a more basic "Real American" moniker. It's all great. Give him a new theme song (You're still coming out to a Rage Against the Machine cover band? Are you serious bro?) and he'll be a solid, solid heel.
 
I am actually excited with swaggars heel character and that they are starting to bring back the manager role this could lead swagger to being the top heel on smackdown. I would like to see him as World Champion again but for a longer time then before
 
I like this idea. I hesitated when I caught a glimpse of a microphone in Jack Swagger’s hand with a new manager right next to him, but after introducing his new manager, and handing the mic off fairly quickly, I was impressed. After hearing what this Zeb Colter fella had to say, I fell in love with Jack Swagger all over again. I'll be the first to admit, I hate those over conservative pricks with the most discriminating ideas but this guy nailed it. Talking about how he no longer sees faces like his who he cannot understand is a perfect way to earn him and Swagger some much needed heat. Given Swagger’s back ground as a two-time all American, playing him off as a far right winged conservative who is disappointed in what he sees in America today is a perfect role for him. I won't pretend like I have a tremendous amount of knowledge about Zeb because I don't, but if he's responsible for launching some of the best ideas in wrestling, then nothing but good can come from this for Swagger. If he’s truly as out there as Cole and King made him out to be, this could be the beginning of something definitely worth watching.

With everyone's hopes that Swagger would return as a face from his hiatus dethroning Antonio Cesaro and taking the United States Championship in some kind of triumphant victory, I feel this route is a hell of a lot better for Swagger. With what was said last night and the way Swagger is now being pushed, if this new direction lasts, I wouldn't be surprised if he simply replaces Antonio Cesaro in the American loving but still hating American people type of role. If Swagger and Colter are displayed correctly (meaning enough time on Smackdown and Raw and wherever else you can throw him in), I think it's only a matter of time before Swagger is back in the World Championship picture with a great deal amount of heat.
 
I see this as an eye opener for myself in terms of Swagger and what possibilities there are for him. Sure he's a heel now and for the next while he'll be gaining some great heat due to the racy nature of his gimmick, but I don't see him necessarily shooting straight to the WHC title picture with not much time left on the road to Wrestlemania. I think it would be stupid to have him possibly win the chamber and face ADR at WM29, I think he should be in a feud or two before entering a title scene.

The way I see it, is that he builds himself up from here, and in a couple months or more or so towards SummerSlam he could face a long reigning US Champion in Cesaro after pulling a face turn? It's hard to tell where his characters going to go from here, but he certainly has picked up some well needed steam.
 
I am disturbed by one thing. This gimmick is going to be seen by a lot of people, including the OP, as a baseline attitude of the right wing. While I'm not a Republican, none of the Republicans I know share this attitude. And, from my own research, which is fairly extensive, the attitude held by Zeb and Swagger represent the extreme fringe of right-wing American society. (As a point of reference, I'm a center-right independent, with leanings toward being a Libertarian.)

And, yes, mikeyado, I'm directly calling you out on this. There was absolutely no reason for you to bring political affiliations into the discussion, unless you were going to go in that direction. And, worse yet, you started the conversation with that strawman.

Can we, please, for once, put down the politics, and just watch exaggerated characters on a television show, without trying to claim that entire portions of society subscribe to the fringe idiocy held by a couple of fictional characters?

You really need to pump the breaks here buddy.

Mantel's "Zebekiah Colter" character is clearly, as has been pointed out in the thread, designed to play along the same lines as John Walters's "RJ Brewer" LLUSA character. The point is to base a character around the country's perception of Arizona's infamous "Support Our Law Enforcement and Safe Neighborhoods Act" or "SB 1070".

Little newsflash for you... SB 1070 was a bill presented and voted in by a Republican majority in the state, and signed into law by a Republican Governor. Of course people are going to draw some political lines with the angle. If you don't your either misinformed, naive, ignorant, stupid, blind, or some combination of those. It is how you're intended to react.

A couple things...

First, does that mean that this angle is designed to paint all Republicans with a "broad paintbrush" as you put it? No. This is wrestling. Characters, especially ones played by a genius like Mantel, are going to be extreme and polarizing. They are exagerated caricatures by design.

Second, your assertion that very few Republican's share the type of profiling and borderline racist practices encouraged by SB 1070 is very contrary to what polling has shown. A Gallop poll showed that of 76% of Americans that had heard about the bill, 51% were in favor. A CBSNews Poll found the same percentage(and also found that the "radicals" you speak of are the 9% in the poll who somehow are capable of believing that it doesn't go far enough). A FoxNews Poll(which obviously is going to hit on the target political demographic we're discussing) showed 61% approval of SB 1070. So it is clear that whether many Replubicans would openly admit it in public, a majority of them likely agree with the basic idea behind the views of the Colter character, if not the extremity of how the message was delivered.

And Third, A logical question may be "Why is the WWE just now hitting on this topic when it was much more prominent 2-3 years ago?" And I say thats simple: Linda's senate campaign. Presenting a character like Colter while Linda was running on a Republican ticket would have been campaign suicide. Too many right-leaners would have seen the character as an offensive stereotype(as Caitiff's immediate reaction to get defensive has shown), and it likely would have derailed her campaign almost instantly.

I have another realted theory to that. Is it possible that presenting a character like this is the McMahon's offering a subtle Fuck You to the more extreme right sect of the Republican party, perhaps feeling that the party didn't fully support Linda to the best of it's capability due to a belief that they viewed her as not "right-wing enough"?? It is an interesting thought to me.

Now to keep this fully related(so its not unfairly deleted)...

As for Swagger/Mantel... Wow.

Swagger has obviously needed a mouthpeice for the duration of his time in the company, or simply anything at all that would cause him to be even the least bit entertaining or interesting- two things he has never once been in his career.

To go one step further and attach him to a gimmick this extreme and polarizing that still fits him to a degree and is still an idea that is somewhat relevant/topical is a big time step to take. We heard throughout Jack's absence that he would be re-packaged for a return. When he came back with seemingly no re-packaging it was quite disapointing. Same generic, and unappealing Swagger. I guess we can throw that out the window now. Swagger finally has a chance to be accompanied by some entertainment value.

And lastly... Paul Heyman and now Dutch Mantel both cutting promos on my TV every week. Hell Fucking Yes. Thank you WWE. Hopefully most of the wrestlers watch when guys like Heyman, Mantel, Foley, Vince, etc. cut promos, maybe then they can learn how its supposed to be done at the highest level.
 
I'm not getting into the political argument about this (which shows me that the angle itself is working). I'm speaking to the wrestling/storyline value of this move, which I love.

For those who may be too young to remember, the last time Dutch was active in WWF/E was back in the 90s, when he came in as "Zeb," the manager of the Blu Brothers (aka The Harris Brothers) and later managed Justin Hawk Bradshaw (aka JBL) for a time. I admit that it took me a minute to recognize him because I hadn't seen him in years, but when I did, I was pretty happy to see it. I thought it was good that Cole and King mentioned him as someone they knew from the past, but never really got into detail about how they knew him. WWE's been better about that kind of thing lately, which I see as a nod to the older fans like myself.

I think bringing Dutch in to be Swagger's mouthpiece was brilliant on a lot of levels. First off, it gets Dutch/Zeb, who has always been great on the mic, back on TV. A lot of younger fans may not have ever heard of Dutch Mantel, but he's had a great mind for the business for a long time. Glad to see him back in circulation. Plus, the "Coulter" last name is a pretty funny jab at Ann Coulter.

Secondly, it gives Swagger someone to keep him off the mic. I've tried to like Swagger in the past, but I feel like he was being force fed to us. Pairing him with Dolph Ziggler and Vicki Guerrero for a while was an attempt to push him as a decent mid-card heel, but it ultimately fell flat. This may be his last shot, and they seem to be trying by putting him into the Elimination Chamber.

Also, it gives more of a legitimacy to his "Real American" angle. I mean, Swagger just comes back all of a sudden with an all-black outfit, longer hair, a beard and a bad attitude. He renames his ankle lock "The Patriot Act," which was a start toward this. Then, it all becomes clear when Dutch/Zeb comes in. I was kind of hoping Swagger would come back with a different character (and heard he was going to turn face, from reports). But, this new "Real American" character may have some staying power. Adding Dutch as a manager and mouthpiece is a good start. If he wins the Chamber (which I don't see, honestly), putting Swagger in a WM feud with ADR is a no-brainer.

Honestly, the first thing I thought of when this angle played out last night was "Hmm. Mohammed Hassan all over again." I have no problem with using political hot topics for wrestling angles, as long as they're done thoughtfully. With Linda's Senate campaign said and done, I suppose the writers feel can now touch political topics again without fear of reprisal in the media and voting booths. Like posters before me, I fear that some sponsor(s) will see this angle and threaten to pull out, which may cut its life short. But, at least get what you can out of it now.
 
I think the WWE's character model for Zeb Coulter is pretty obvious, given the spelling of his last name:

images

Bullshit... Ann Coulter wishes she had Mantel's beard and husky voice.

I hope they take this as far as they can go with it, and then hit the gas pedal and take it that much further. Eric Bischoff said it best: "Controversy creates cash."

Yeah, sure, the WWE may lose a few sponsors over it, but when the viewership goes up because they have controversial and compelling storylines again they'll get more sponsors.

Personally I hope Swagger wins the Elimination Chamber and they start the program with him and Del Rio. Del Rio could win at Mania, and then be cashed in on by Ziggler after Coulter and Swagger beat him down post-match. Then they could continue the feud without the title being involved on the grounds that Del Rio's heritage being insulted means more than the title.
 
I like it. We're getting character development for Swags and a mouthpiece to draw heat. These extra layers they're adding to his character are really working so far.

I honestly feel he could be winning the Chamber on Sunday to go on and feud with ADR @ 'Mania....but RKO still seems like a more likely winner on Sunday.
 

Okay. I'll play.

First: SB 1070 is a law that required people to be able to show that they are in this nation legally, when and if stopped for other legitimate reasons. Please explain to me how this is a bad idea. "But, it's mean to Mexicans.' Only the ones who are already committing a crime, by being here illegally. Doesn't bother anyone else with the basic common sense required to carry their ID in their wallets.

Second: Republican support of SB 1070 doesn't show any form of racism, or dislike for immigration. The only thing shown by that poll is that most of the people who answered those polls are in favor of reducing illegal immigration. (Note that I keep using the word "illegal." It's kind of important.)

Third: It's already a federal law that immigrants must have this ID on them, at all times. So, what you're claiming is that SB 1070 somehow evil, because this law would require the Arizona Police to actually enforce a law that is...... wait for it...... already on the books.

(I'm referring to USC § 1357, the full text can be found at http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1357#f_2 )

Which translates to one thing. People actually do see characters who go this far out into the fringe as being what the mainstream right-wing is. It's simply not. My issue was never with how the character is being portrayed, on camera. My issue is the fact that people are seeing this as a showing of how the majority of people on the right feel. And, frankly, you've proven my point, and done so with impressive skill. Thank you.



And, now it's my turn to keep this on topic, so that it (hopefully) doesn't get deleted.




I do agree with you, on one thing, though. Jack Swagger has needed a manager since Day 1. I like the guy's work, but he simply cannot cut a promo. And, his lack of mic skills seems, to me, to be what has been holding him back during the entirety of his WWE run.

I know. I know. "Vicky." I'll say this straight out. Vicky Guerrero outright sucks as a manager. She simply cannot get actual heat on anyone, except herself. AJ Lee got more actual heat on Dolph Ziggler in 24 hours than Vicky did in 24 months. And, she did it before a single word came out of her mouth.

And, Ziggler is very easy to loathe. He's that pretty boy jock who always thought he was God's gift to Earth, and his crap doesn't stink, while going out of his way to ridicule everyone who didn't live up to his standards of appearance and living. Almost everyone has had to deal with that kind of prick before, and Vicky was incapable of getting people to dislike THAT character. Frankly, that's incompetence, on her part, in my eyes.

And, if she couldn't get Ziggler heat, what the hell chance did Swagger ever have with her? Why do I say that? Because, until this point, Swagger's character was a generic, moderately cocky wrestler who could actually back up most of the things that he said. He almost never ran from a fight, and (to the best of my knowledge) never cheated. That's not a natural heel character. That's a mid-card babyface character. He had zero chance of getting any actual heat with that character, especially with Vicky as her manager.

Now, Dutch Mantell is a full paradigm shift for Swagger's character. First off, it's a VERY easy character to outright hate, since his attitude is, to be frank, revolting. I will admit, though. Up until he said the words "cross our border," I was really hoping for the swerve being that the characters were enraged by "YOLO" and "Swag." Had that happened, I would have instantly stopped seeing Swagger and Coulter as heels.

Secondly, Dutch Mantell is a heel's heel. Unlike Vicky, who would likely have a difficult time keeping heel heat on the Klan, Dutch could probably turn apple pie and vanilla ice cream heel, inside two promos. Okay, maybe 5 promos.

Also, Dutch is completely old-school. If you watch the promo again, you'll notice that he wasn't trying to be complicated. He certainly wasn't trying to be cool or snide. In wrestling, you're not supposed to show off every aspect of a person's humanity. You're not supposed to have a reason to like the heels. You're not supposed to have a reason to dislike the babyfaces.

Almost every heel who has ever turned face by the crowd has fallen victim to this. Randy Orton comes to mind, off the top of my head. He wants to be a heel. But, the main parts of his character that he plays up are things that people wish they had in themselves.

And, that's what Dutch did right. He kept his promo very simple, very to the point, and very easy to play off of for next time. And, he ended it with something that can be easily remembered, both by Swagger/Coulter, to get their points across, and by whichever babyface eventually stops them, to rub their faces in their wrongdoings. "We, the people."

From what I can tell, the single biggest trap that writers fall into, when writing villains, is to not flesh out the underlying reason for their actions. In WWE, Kane is an exceptional example of this. His entire character is built around, "I am evil, so I do things that are evil, because I like being evil. Yay, evil!" (And, if you've watched the Kane DVD, you've seen that, outside of "yay, evil!" I was not exaggerating.) But, nobody thinks in those terms. Or, to be more accurate, no sane person thinks in those terms.

The most important aspect of being a villain is that your character believes that he is doing the right thing. After all, everyone is the hero in their own story. Swagger and Coulter actually believe that they are right. And, that conviction brings out mannerisms that simply do not occur if all you've done is memorize a script. "My character would say this" is much easier to convey than "this is what I've been told to say."

Hopefully, Swagger will spend a significant amount of time with Dutch, and take every possible opportunity to learn from him. If this gimmick has any longevity, this can do absolutely nothing but help Jack Swagger for the rest of his career.

People mentioned that "It'll only take one sponsor...." I doubt it. WWE is still a highly marketable product, and would be able to replace a few sponsors, since Raw and Smackdown are still pretty high in the ratings. I think that it would take a lot more than one sponsor. Oh, wait. Mohammed Hassan. Dammit.
 

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