Not necessarily, especially if you think Matt Hardy vs. Mysterio would have main evented over Jericho, Goldberg, The Rock, HHH and evolution. I don't see that happening at all.
Are you going to tell me now that the Smackdown roster in 2003 was somehow weaker? Seriously, we had guys like Brock Lesnar, Kurt Angle, Undertaker, Big Show, Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero and a rapper called John Cena all on Smackdown. Quite a strong roster if you ask me.
Also Trish vs Lita on Raw took place in the December of 2004. At that time the Raw roster was not as buff as it had been in 2003. You had HHH, Randy Orton, who was failing as a face at that time, HBK was out with an injury and would only return at New Year's Resolution in 2005. Batsita and Edge had not really begun their rise towards the top. So yes, the point is moot.
In fact from the looks of it, it seems that the Cruiserweight title main evented in a stronger roster.
You keep up bringing up how important cruiserweights were to WCW. Although that may be true WCW is not WWE. When has the cruiserweight division been important to the WWE? That week that didn't exist? Cruiserweights may have been important in other companies but not in WWE because WWE doesn't focus on cruiserweights. Even in the 80's when they had junior heavyweights like Tatsumi Fujinami, tiger Mask, Dynamite Kid and The Cobra they were never important and I would say those 4 guys were enough to make a strong junior Heavyweight division.
Meh. I used it here because it was a relevant example which proves that the performers of a division do not have to main event a show to be considered relevant.
And I have already stated why the cruiserweight division failed in WWE. It had old washed up guys who kept leaving almost as soon as they had signed up. That is hardly the case today. You would not have this guy in the WWE Cruiserweight roster today.
Psicosis-35 when he left WWE in 2006
But this guy.
Evan Bourne-29, present day.
As for the examples from the 80's, give me a break man. WWE was already re-inventing the wheel by being gimmicky and cartoonish as compared to the other promotions that existed in that day. They were already taking a big risk. Having a cruiserweight division at that point would have been another big risk, almost suicidal mind you, considering that a look was considered to be the most important think to look for in a wrestler at that time. Even midcarders at that point looked roided up. Like this guy.
Small guys at that point were considered a waste of time and roster space in wrestling. But that was 1980, this is 2012.
How would it be any different if they were put in other divisions in the WWE? You seem to think they NEED a cruiserweight division for these guys to be successful and that's simply not the case, never has been. Its about the WWE using these guys properly and giving them more exposure, they certainly don't need their own division for that. They could easily take these guys, make some tag teams, put them in the IC and US title picture and its done. Have 6 man tags, have fatal four ways, its not like the WWE hasn't done it before. Its a simple concept really, give them more time.
Stuff like "using them properly and giving them exposure" sounds great in theory but often does not play out that well. See, if it were so easy to do that, then why hasn't it happened till now? Why is Justin Gabriel still languishing as a nobody on the roster? Why has Tyson Kidd been ignored after one good run with the tag belt? Why does Yoshi Tatsu have to do horrendous backstage comedy segments day in and day out?
No reason exists is because they have BETTER talent to push instead of those guys. Guys like Ziggler, Swagger, Miz, Sin Cara all got pushed in 2011 and 3 of those guys were on your cruiserweight list, same with Punk and Bryan. They push PLENTY of cruiserweights and the ones they push are the best of the bunch. CM Punk is WWE champion, one of the top guys in the company, is a cruiserweight and did it without the division. Its all about pushing who you think is better for business. At one point both Gabriel and Kidd did get pushed pretty good WITHOUT the cruiserweight division. Tyson Kidd was part of the Hart Dynasty, probably one of the best teams in the last 5 years, Gabriel was pushed and in a main event program on BOTH shows. How is that not pushing them or giving them enough exposure?
A few points here:
1. How do you even know that these guys are not good enough? Have they been given any chance to prove their worth? Guys like Punk and Bryan were established indy names when they came into the roster. Mistico was a pretty big name in CMLL and that is why he was given a brief push. The likes of Miz got over in the now defunct WWECW. That is not the case with guys like Gabriel, Kidd, Tatsu and Slater. They had come into WWE as nobodies, unlike the likes of Punk, Bryan and Mistico, and because of the lack of opportunities they continue to be just that. Nobodies.
Tyson Kidd was pushed and then the Hart Dynasty suffered an inexplicable break-up which led to David Hart Smith being released from the company and Kidd being relegated to NXT. Possibly, WWE wanted to push Kidd as a singles heel, which seemed to be the plan at that point. That would have been easily possible in a Cruiserweight division with Kidd competing with guys of his size. But because he was smaller than most of the guys he was competing against, it became difficult for him to get over as a heel.
Point blank, it is apparent that the Cruiserweight belt could be used to give opportunities to guys who are percieved as nobodies today. Opportunities that are hard to get by in the WWE today.
2. It may be that these guys are not as good as the likes of Punk. But that does not mean that you should continue to waste them. They should be allowed to perform to their maximum potential, and the maximum potential of a Yoshi Tatsu is to go out there and have great matches night in and night out. Not perform in horrendous backstage comedy segments.
I gave the example of Dean Malenko in my OP. He was a guy who was never on the world title level. But the cruiserweight belt allowed him to be a recognizable name and have a satisfactory career. That is what the cruiserweight belt could do to a lot of wrestlers in WWE. Give them something meaningful to do.
Yes but in both scenarios I recall very few feuds or programs for those mid card titles. Usually its a few week feud, champ disposes of challenger and next person comes in. For both titles the only 3 real feuds I can recall is Miz vs. Bryan, Big Show vs. Rhodes, and Ziggler vs. Ryder (5 are cruiserweights btw). The rest of the time it was a few week feud, champ wins, next challenger shows up, rinse, repeat.
That was not the point we were discussing here. We were talking about the large midcard rosters preventing small sized wrestlers from getting TV time.
But yes, a title can be well booked even if there are no feuds based around it. Look at Miz's US title reign. Before his feud with Bryan, he went about and defended his title against all comers from Kofi to R-Truth to MVP to Zack Ryder and many more. Miz's reign is considered to be one of the best US title reigns in recent years and, as you put it, it featured only one "real" feud.
But The Miz appeared on TV every week with the belt and winning the belt gave him something to brag about and made him look capable. It also featured some pretty good promos. The following promo mind you, was cut against MVP.
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Still want to talk about the midcard belts not being booked properly? Frankly, it is something that depends on the ability of the performer. The Miz was able to show here and in the weeks after this as well that you can do a great job even in cookie cutter feuds and make both yourself look good and the belt that you are holding look important.
The same happens today as well. Both the US and the IC champions get significant amount of TV time. Show has been embroiled in a feud with Cody Rhodes that has gotten plenty of coverage and Jack Swagger too is on TV almost every week.
The Divas title has never mattered much in the WWE, just like the cruiserweight title, I would say the womens division was much more relevant in WWE than the cruiserweights ever were.
Actually, the Divas title is something that supports my claims. Women's wrestling has never mattered a lick in the WWE and yet people do say that the divas division was at it's best at around 2004-05. That is because of the presence of great performers like Trish, Lita, Victoria, Jazz, Mickie James, etc.
The same could be said even for the Cruiserweight division if it is brought back today. It did not work earlier because of old and washed up performers who consistently kept leaving the company for one reason or another but at present day, WWE has a number of talented cruiserweights.
Even the WWE was forced to pay attention to the Women's belt, a belt that they had never cared for, due to the excellence of the performers. What is there to say that WWE would not pay similar attention to the cruiserweight belt once it's performers start performing at a high level?
Name me 1 real feud Austin Aries has had since becoming X-Division champion? Yes, Aries has been a great champion but he also has had no credible challengers to challenge him, legitimately at least.
So, you said it here yourself didn't you? That you do not need a long term feud between two competitors to measure how much attention is being paid to the belt. Aries is a great example of that. He is someone who gets both TV and PPV time regardless of whether he is in a feud with someone, just like the IC and US champs in WWE, and he is being hailed as one of the best X-Division of all time.
But yes, the point here was that TNA features the X-Division belt pretty regularly on their programming. The likes of Aries, Zema Ion, Jesse Sorensen, Kid Kash, Brian Kendrick, Alex Shelley and many more have great matches on a regular basis. Impact also does pretty decent ratings, which is actually comparable to what Smackdown does, so it is not that whatever takes place on their show can just be ignored as something that is watched by only the minority.
And like I just said, they promote the cruiserweight style of wrestling pretty hard on their show.
Conclusion
Like I mentioned in my previous debate, something only deserves to come back or be introduced in the world of wrestling if and only if:
1. It actually benefits the company in some way
2. There is some demand for it.
I have shown throughout the course of this debate how exactly bringing the cruiserweight division back can only help the company. It will give the performers who are currently doing nothing something to do and may even lead to main event careers for them just like what happened to the cruiserweights in WCW. And even if they do not have main event careers, it will still give them an opportunity to make their mark in the world of wrestling, just like it did for Dean Malenko, which would be a huge improvement from what they are doing currently. Which happens to be nothing.
My opponent tried to prove that that would not be the case but in the end, I would have to say that he was unsuccessful. He tried giving examples of the CW roster having failed in the past but I was able to show just why that was the case then ( old washed up performers who kept leaving the company for one reason or another) and just why it is not something that would happen today( young, hungry performers who are eager for success). His other point revolved around the booking aspect of the cruiserweights and I showed that it was speculation at best especially considering that HHH has shown interest in reviving the division and also because of the performers we have today. It is always difficult to book a division when it's wrestlers keep leaving at regular intervals but that would not be the case today.
My opponent tried to give me examples of cruiserweights who had done well in WWE and I was easily able to show how most were able to do well because they were established names in their own right before they even set a foot in WWE.
My opponent also tried to show that the midcard belts were being ignored and that would be a reason for the CW belt not being used properly. I was able to prove giving examples that the midcard belts are being used just fine in WWE and have been used to propel many a career like the ones of Miz, Cody Rhodes, etc and that they get plenty of TV and PPV time.
Finally, my opponent tried to show that the cruiserweights can be used in the midcard belts but I was able to show how big the divisions really are which would make it difficult for the cruiserweights to get an opportunity. Also that has not been the case so far so I do not see the situation changing.
I was also able to show that there was a demand for the Cruiserweights by showing that that style of wrestling was doing well all over the wrestling world especially in both TNA and ROH. My opponent tried to show that the demand was not large enough but using the ratings of Impact and Smackdown, I easily showed that that was not the case.
To sum up, the cruiserweight belt could be something that could benefit a lot of people in the company. The fans want to see it, the company officials have shown an interest towards it and it is something that has no noticeable shortcomings. I do not see any reason why it should not return.
I rest my case.
