Limited in the Ring........Sometimes

[HBKperfect23]

This would be the counter to the Bret Hart on the mic thread. I listed 5 wrestlers who were known for their mic skills or look more so then there in ring ability. The point of the thread here is to discuss the best match each of these wrestlers were apart of

1) Hulk Hogan: hogan could work when he wanted to. I remember buying Hulkamania 4 on vhs when I was kid. Hogan had an amazing match with Stan Hanson in Japan. when Hogan was in Japan he would over deliver and he worked damn hard this match.

2) Ultimate Warrior had to be his match with Hogan at WM6. The atmosphere was electric. I think that match was as good as it possibly could have been.

3) John Cena: I really think he's pretty underrated in the ring and given the right opponent he can deliver a great match. He's been doing it almost weekly with US title open challenge. My favorite was Cena vs Michaels on Raw in the UK tied with CM Punk MiTB2011. Both long grueling matches where Cena could follow a great wrestler and put on a 5 star match.

4) Lex Luger: Luger had the look. I heard he had some decent stuff in his initial WCW run but I havent seen much of that run. So I'm going with Luger vs Yoko from SumMerslam 93. I hated the ending but that match was pretty decent. There is probably a better match (even his WWF run) that I just can't think of.

5) Kevin Nash: always liked his matches with Bret. Survivor Series 95 was no exception. I'd even go as far to say it is on of Brets best. The first table spot I can remember in WWF. The finish was spot on. All around flawless Match.

 

[yourdamnluck]

These guys could take bumps, sell them like champs so when it comes to entertaining people with a few good matches on a particular ppv they were as good as anyone else but can you sit through luger vs hogan or goldberg vs nash again and again.
On the other hand you can see hbk and bret or benwah and angle go against each other for 1 whole year and you won't be bored. With the other guys specially hogan and cena you know what they were going to do each time and even the result were pretty obvious.
You can't put these guys in a feud for as long as Shawn and Bret and end that feud in an IM match. People would unsubscribe en masse.
That's why they are limited. Overexposure can totally kill them as happened to cena and orton.

 

[MWRedskins]

1) Hulk Hogan: his matches at times were not bad...my favorite had to be with Macho Man. the story of the Mega Powers exploding, the story of Liz, the title being on the line and the in ring wrestling also was fine. one of my favorites.

2) Ultimate Warrior-- as the first guy said, has to be with Hogan. the whole story is the biggest reason. sometimes a story (like Warrior trying to win the ultimate prize for the first time, but would have to be superman Hogan to win it) or a chase makes a match that looks bad on paper, great.

3) John Cena: honestly, i think he's the best in ring wrestler of these 5. he's had some great matches with guys like Bryan, Rollins, Ambrose and Punk. Punk has to be the best one due to what was on the line and the surprise ending. i never expected Punk to leave Chicago with the WWE title.

4) Lex Luger: his best match to me was the Sting/Lugar tag match vs. the Steiner brothers. a time when Luger tried harder in the ring and was younger.

5) Kevin Nash: as for Nash, i think he had fine matches with Michaels (who knows how to put on a great match) and not just because of the in ring wrestling, but also the story. the story of how Nash (Big Daddy Cool Diesel) used to be the bodyguard of Michaels and how they came apart. that helped make their matches great.

 

[Navdeep]

Actuaaly if anything Cena is quite underrated in ring. From last year final match vs bray to this year his last vs Owens, he has 15 matches on ppv .
Out of which only one match is rated under 3.5 star by Meltzer.
7 matches is rated over 4 stars and 5 matches are rated 4.5 stars .

 

[Pérez84]

I wouldn't include Cena on that group. Perhaps the guy is a bit generic in the ring, but his generic style and his hard physical work can give an "A" match with almost everyone.

Not a great technician, but neither a boring one.

 

[SuperTaco]

Meltzer.

Bad idea. Don't judge matches based on one dirt sheet reporters personal opinion.

 

[Navdeep]

Bad idea. Don't judge matches based on one dirt sheet reporters personal opinion.

I was just giving a example and Meltzer rating is known as easily most credible around the world.
Meltzer specially don't give good rating for North American matches and so taking 4 star from him is a achievement. Eg. Look at Shawn vs Undertaker wrestlemania 25, he gave only 4.75 star which was easily 5star match.

 

[HBKperfect23]

I wouldn't include Cena on that group. Perhaps the guy is a bit generic in the ring, but his generic style and his hard physical work can give an "A" match with almost everyone.

Not a great technician, but neither a boring one.

I agree Cena is a very god worker but he got the top on his mic skills which is why he is included here. I originally had the Rock in this group, even considered Austin, despite the fact he was one of the best wrestlers on the planet in 94/95.

Didn't mean for this to be knock on any of them in the ring. The reason they're all on here is because of their superior mic skills or their look. I actually consider Hogan, Nash, Warrior to be decent workers....And consider Cena to be above average. Probably could have chosen a better thread title here, it was chosen based upon our (the IWC) average perception of these guys in the ring.

 

[OYDK]

1) Hulk Hogan: hogan could work when he wanted to. I remember buying Hulkamania 4 on vhs when I was kid. Hogan had an amazing match with Stan Hanson in Japan. when Hogan was in Japan he would over deliver and he worked damn hard this match.

This is true, Hogan could work when he wanted to and before his knee and back problems he could put on a pretty decent match. However when his movement became limited, I found it difficult to sit through a Hogan match without getting angry, especially in his WCW days. I would watch a massive build for a match between, say, Hogan and Piper and watch a match that quite literally would make me turn off my television. But yes, before the early 90s, Hogan was able to deliver well enough in the ring to be considered a decent ring-worker.

Ultimate Warrior had to be his match with Hogan at WM6. The atmosphere was electric. I think that match was as good as it possibly could have been.

Warrior's best matches were when he could play off the crowd, and to be fair it was really the crowds that made some of those matches watchable. I agree with the Hogan-Warrior match as being his best, but you would be hard pressed to ever find another classic that included UW other than one of his many with the Macho Man.

John Cena: I really think he's pretty underrated in the ring and given the right opponent he can deliver a great match. He's been doing it almost weekly with US title open challenge. My favorite was Cena vs Michaels on Raw in the UK tied with CM Punk MiTB2011. Both long grueling matches where Cena could follow a great wrestler and put on a 5 star match.

Cena consistently puts on great matches and he's been doing it for years now. I don't really agree with putting him on this list. As you listed, nobody else on this list could touch Cena's matches with Michaels and Punk. Put Hogan or Warrior or Nash in the ring for one hour and see how many people remember it for its greatness.

Lex Luger: Luger had the look. I heard he had some decent stuff in his initial WCW run but I havent seen much of that run. So I'm going with Luger vs Yoko from SumMerslam 93. I hated the ending but that match was pretty decent. There is probably a better match (even his WWF run) that I just can't think of.

Luger had some good-great matches throughout his career, most of them in WCW. In the late 80s-early 90s, he had some real barnburners with Ric Flair over the NWA title regularly going over 25 minutes. His match with Sting at WrestleWar 92 over the WCW title was also very fun to watch. When Luger cared and worked hard, he could put on a string of quality matches... sadly he didn't seem to care for most of his career.

Kevin Nash: always liked his matches with Bret. Survivor Series 95 was no exception. I'd even go as far to say it is on of Brets best. The first table spot I can remember in WWF. The finish was spot on. All around flawless Match.

Couldn't really stand Kevin Nash but that's besides the point. I'd agree with others in saying his best showing was with Bret and also Shawn, but other than that, you'd be hard pressed to find a match where Nash cared enough to show up.

 

[SJ5522]

Cena is a fucking great wrestler! In 2001, Jerry Lynn trained with him a bit with OVW, Cena says "have any constructive criticism?", Lynn says "nah, you can wrestle kid"
some people are just delusional.

 

[Navdeep]

Cena is a fucking great wrestler! In 2001, Jerry Lynn trained with him a bit with OVW, Cena says "have any constructive criticism?", Lynn says "nah, you can wrestle kid"
some people are just delusional.

Na he is not great wrestler like Hart or HBK but he is good enough to have good to great matches on constant basis.
But he surely don't belong to the op list.

 

[HBKperfect23]

Na he is not great wrestler like Hart or HBK but he is good enough to have good to great matches on constant basis.
But he surely don't belong to the op list.

You missed the point of the thread. Cena belongs on the list because of the heat he's receieved over the years. The point of the thread is to bring up all the good he did in the ring, which in my opinion has been a lot. If I made an mid year list of favorite matches for 2015, John Cena matches would dominate that list.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

Arguably the names missing are Ric Flair and Dusty Rhodes... both were stellar on the mic but had limitations in the ring. Flair was often accused of "doing the same thing every night" and while he could go for long matches etc, he was limited due to the back injury he got in that plane crash, he had to take bumps on his side etc...

Dusty is the classic "mic over match" guy, he was never a top worker in terms of technical ability and everyone has admitted that, even after his recent death. What he could do was pace a match and tell the story after the bell rand his limited physicality and with copious amounts of blood to send the fans home happy after he'd talked them into that arena.

Cena is not on the list, he is limited by Vince, not by ability... Vince likes the 5 moves of doom principle for his top guys and it's not like Bret didn't do that... Reverse Atomic Drop, Russian Legsweep, backbreaker, 2nd Rope Elbow, Sharpshooter...

 

[Just Do It]

British Bulldog. Had some of the worst matches ever in WCW vs Curt Hennig, some poor performances in 1991 against Warlord. Elsewhere blinders against Bret, Owen and Shawn and of ocurse some amazing tag matches with Dynamite Kid.

 

[HBKperfect23]

Arguably the names missing are Ric Flair and Dusty Rhodes... both were stellar on the mic but had limitations in the ring. Flair was often accused of "doing the same thing every night" and while he could go for long matches etc, he was limited due to the back injury he got in that plane crash, he had to take bumps on his side etc...

Dusty is the classic "mic over match" guy, he was never a top worker in terms of technical ability and everyone has admitted that, even after his recent death. What he could do was pace a match and tell the story after the bell rand his limited physicality and with copious amounts of blood to send the fans home happy after he'd talked them into that arena.

Cena is not on the list, he is limited by Vince, not by ability... Vince likes the 5 moves of doom principle for his top guys and it's not like Bret didn't do that... Reverse Atomic Drop, Russian Legsweep, backbreaker, 2nd Rope Elbow, Sharpshooter...

Dusty would be a good name for the group. While Ric Flair did get to the top with mic skills, he backed it up in the ring. Flair set the bar for in ring wrestling in the 80s. I can't see your point here

 

[FlairFan2003]

Nash wrestled some great matches vs Brett Hart....In WCW he was lazy, he worked hard at times (War Games vs Horsemen, Starrcade 98 vs Goldberg) but his best matches were against Hart. In his last regular WWE run he had some excellent matches vs HHH

Ultimate Warrior's best match was hands down, no way around WrestleMania vs Randy Savage – This match haway more athleticism and better selling than Warrior vs Hogan, and was just as intense, if not more. A lot of the credit for both matches goes to the opponents, Hogan carried Warrior. Ted DiBiase said in interviews watching how much Hogan carried Warrior was proof Hogan was much better in the ring than he was often credited for. Still, Warrior-Savage was UW best match.
Luger’s best match easily is Starrcade 88 – Fast paced, over 33 minutes, few rest holds, Luger does off the top drop kicks, uses sleeperholds and a variety of suplexes, and sells better than normal, all without looking winded (He typically was huffing & puffing anytime a match went past 15 minutes, watch him in the Triangle Match at Starrcade 96, he looks winded and slow after 10 minutes running with Flair, who hadnt even messed up his hair at that point!) – WrestleWar 90 (I think it was actually billed as Music City Showdown 90 but it was annual Feb PPV WCW did) against Flair is another excellent match but it’s bit more repetitive in terms of offensive moves by Luger, less innovative stuff for him than Starrcade 88. Luger had some good matches vs Brett Hart in both WCW & WWE and against Ricky Steamboat in 1989 WCW but he never looked better than he did at Starrcade 88.

Hogan would work better matches in Japan, in part because the Japanese wrestlers and fans are both much more demanding and would not be pleased with the simple Vince McMahon 7 minute, take a beating, Hulk Up, power slam, big boot, leg drop cycle. To compete their and make big money (and Japan paid nice money for top American stars like Hogan & Flair in the 80s) he had to more. Hogan actually worked two of his better matches in his last major WWE run in bouts vs Chris Jericho & Kurt Angle which I’m surprised haven’t gotten more cred here. In the States his best match would have to be WrestleMania vs Ultimate Warrior – his World Title wins over Savage & Flair were much better matches start to finish but in those cases he was matched up against top level in ring performers at or near their prime, in short, he didn’t have to carry anyone, he just had to keep up and fit his style with theirs, which in both cases he did very well. With Warrior Hogan managed to get a 20 plus minute match that wasn’t a rest hold snooze fest, hold fans attention, and deliver an exciting finish, with one of the worst in ring performers ever to main event WWE. Hogan worked against a lot of very average or limited performers but it was typically in the context of his standard, 7-10 minute beating, Hulk Up, etc formula in which he did very little performance wise in the ring. Here Hogan is asked to deliver an A quality match befitting of the year’s biggest show and he pulls it off, not with a Flair or Savage but with one of the most limited and talentless performers in the ring he ever main evented with. That has to go down as his greatest performance, at least in the US.

 

[FlairFan2003]

Arguably the names missing are Ric Flair and Dusty Rhodes... both were stellar on the mic but had limitations in the ring. Flair was often accused of "doing the same thing every night" and while he could go for long matches etc, he was limited due to the back injury he got in that plane crash, he had to take bumps on his side etc...

...

Flair took bumps like crazy! He took boat loads of superplexes and off the top rope slams, over head press slams, back drops, over the top rope back drops and clotheslines, and took plenty of hard bumps on the concrete floors the lined the outside of the NWA rings in the 80s when they didn’t put gym mats down. Flair bumped like mad all the time.

His match style varied greatly by opponent. Flair against Ricky Steamboat and Barry Whyndam has similarities, but looks nothing like his violent brawls against Bruiser Brody and Terry Funk. Flair easily adapted to wrestling cruiserweights like Ricky Morton, technical wrestlers like Steamboat, Whyndam, Rick Martel, etc as well as Russian Chain Matches against a heel Nikita Kolloff, with very different types of matches, move sets, and psychology. He also could adapt and play the small man under dog convincingly when he faced monsters like The Road Warriors and Vader, either as heel or a face. Its hard to think of anyone who has the wildly varying types of matches he had in all honesty, I cant see how anyone would say he was limited !

The only guy in this thread who MIGHT be able to pull off something similar is Cena, who is vastly under rated as a performer, he hasn’t shown the ability to carry the hard core style brawls Flair did but he has shown he can take nasty bumps convincingly (see his TLC Match vs Edge) and he has wrestled excellent mat matches against HBK, HHH, Orton, and Punk.