Is Vince Russo really that bad???

[Christian Battlez]

I'd really like Sly's opinion on this actually as I'm sure he'd give some actual reasons. Ok everyone says Vince Russo is so horrible. But what about him is so horrible honestly. People wanna blame TNA's failures on Russo. But are they really failing? They're improving every week people are watching even if its not as many people as WWE there still IMPROVING. So how can it be so horrible? Plus wouldn't Jeff Jarrett have the final say anyway. So my question to all of you and especially Sly is Is Vince Russo really so bad and if so why? Give Reasons not just he sucks because TNA sucks. Discuss.

 

[latinoheat8979]

I will always know Vince Russo for 2 things:

He helped WWE with the ratings and helped them win the Monday Night War
The shoot against Hulk Hogan at Bash at the Beach 2000

He's a born again Christian like many in the sport but I kinda like the guy he isn't that bad but like him or not he's made had an Impact on the sport with all the companies he's worked for.

 

[Scorpio8975]

Ok, read books like Eddie Guerrero's, and a few others out there that detail the death of WCW. Let's view some examples shall we? Pinata on a pole, Judy Bagwell on a Pole, Anything on a pole, David Arquette as World Champion leading to the death of the significance of titles, Electrified Steel Cage, Last Rites Match, Prison Yard Brawl, Triple Cage match, Blindfolded steel cage match and I'm sure the list goes on.

It's a well known fact that corny comedy angles, and outrageous gimmick matches have Vince Russo as their biggest mark. The man has only one thing to credit himself and that is he helped out with the attitude era. Just watch WCW when Russo had the reigns and you will see why Russo is so hated.

 

[Marty2Hotty]

I am a huge fan of Vince Russo and have been one of his biggest advocators online since I found out he had many detractors in 2002.

Let's not even talk about the 6.9 ratings he did for WWF for a second. In his writing alone, I just love the stories he tells, the characters (comedy, dramatic), the way the matches are booked, the finishes, etc. I'm not a fan of 20 minute armdrag wrestling matches, so when Russo booked the entertainment, the dialogue, the sex, the violence, the entertainment, all he did in my opinion was make the entertainment aspect of wrestlin relevant to current society. He just made it more fun to watch and took the best parts of wrestling and made it watchable for an adult audience to the point where wrestling wasn't really ridiculed anymore.

You'd have fans and common people talking about what is going to happen in a storyline, what is going to happen with the rock or austin one week, talking about the crazy segments that happened on a Raw or Nitro.

I loved his writing; I loved the characters. Even Arquette winning was 'realistic' in the way it happened meaning he pinned Eric Bischoff.

Russo was a huge part of the Attitude era. The Rock would not be a movie star today if Russo did not take the direction he did for a solid 2 1/2 years making the rating from 2.0 to 7.0.

IN regards to WCW, I loved the runs he did. WWF in 2000 was a monster because he helped create the monster. Nobody would give WCW a chance regardless. I thought his WCW runs were absolutely entertaining and amazing and the fact that he tried to bring reality and more excitement in the wrestling shows makes me think he's an absolute plus to the business.

Signing off as one of the biggest Russo marks!

Marty

 

[smalltownfan]

To me, Vince Russo will forever be held at least partially responsible for the death of WCW. Those stupid storylines they had towards the end, especially with David Arquette as champ, were all brainchilds of Vince Russo. In fact, I recall WCW's announcers even saying, "I have no idea what the hell's going on here." That was actually a true statement because at the time, there really was nothing going on. Neither Russo nor Eric Bischoff had a plan beyong the NWO and that led to WCW closing its doors. I think Russo is a smart guy with some interesting ideas, but he never, ever needs to be in charge.

 

[Lithium66]

Russo only work well for the wwe and just suck at wcw and tna.

I thought when he first move to wcw was a great thing but just did not have a great 2nd hand guy working the same wave links as he was at wwe.so just bought crazy gimmicks and david arguette made me stick to ecw and wwe.he has try with tna and maybe they get more and more better in the years so far just not been great.time will tell

 

[Rated R SuperFan]

Vince Russo is a good booker in the short term he has a hard time getting from the begining of a program to the Middle and eventually to the end and having it all make sense in the end TNA is smart to have a creative Team in WWE and WCW Bichoff and Russo did all the writting and that's really a bad way to do it . In WWE everyting has toi be green lit by Vince in TNA there is a writting team and everything is green lit by Jeff Jarrett in WCW Russo and Bichoff had total control . so to anwser ur question NO Vince Russo isn't all bad .

 

[Megadeth]

Russo gets way to much blame for most things. As for being the cause of the death of WCW, for the record, when Russo took over, the nitro rating went up about .5 and RAW went down about the same. The only reason WCW doesnt still exist, is because the time warner execs wanted to get rid of WCW before the AOL merger. Had they been willing to continue to air wrestling of TNT or TBS, WCW would have been bought by Eric Bischoff, not Vince McMahon. In TNA, Russo seems to get the blame for everything as if he is the only person doing the booking. You never hear anyone blame Jeff Jarrett or Dutch Mantell for anything. Last I heard TNA is getting their best ratings ever and revenue is up. Sure he has had some ideas that are regrettable, but who hasnt. David Arquette being champ in the long term scheme of things was a bad idea, but lets face it, it got people talking and got plenty of media attention for both WCW and the ready 2 rumble movie.

 

[Ovaltine]

I don't think Russo is to blame for TNA turning into a WWE-light type of a company. The guy is creative, but he needs someone to filter his ideas and make sense out of them. Unfrtunately, no one in TNA has the ability to do that. I'd like to see TNA to put a real wrestling booker in charge. That way they could use Russo as an idea guy and as a guy that could help wrestlers to shape their characters. Those are his strong points. Booking and writing entire shows are the things that Russo should not be doing. Everyone saw what he turned WCW into when he was the head booker. I never want to see that type of stuff ever again.

 

[The Reaction]

Russo also wanted that loser Tank Abbott to win the title at Souled Out 2000.

What a brilliant idea! And who could forget that awesome stable known as the Misfit in Action w/ their prime time player, GI Bro (Booker T)? And what was with all of the "worked shoots"? They might as well have a match that determines who gets to be the head booker (kayfabe of course) who then gets to decide who wins and loses? Might as well show backstage segments where the road agents are telling wrestlers on how to work that match.

Stupid Russo.

 

[Scorpio8975]

I am a huge fan of Vince Russo and have been one of his biggest advocators online since I found out he had many detractors in 2002.

Let's not even talk about the 6.9 ratings he did for WWF for a second. In his writing alone, I just love the stories he tells, the characters (comedy, dramatic), the way the matches are booked, the finishes, etc. I'm not a fan of 20 minute armdrag wrestling matches, so when Russo booked the entertainment, the dialogue, the sex, the violence, the entertainment, all he did in my opinion was make the entertainment aspect of wrestlin relevant to current society. He just made it more fun to watch and took the best parts of wrestling and made it watchable for an adult audience to the point where wrestling wasn't really ridiculed anymore.

You'd have fans and common people talking about what is going to happen in a storyline, what is going to happen with the rock or austin one week, talking about the crazy segments that happened on a Raw or Nitro.

I loved his writing; I loved the characters. Even Arquette winning was 'realistic' in the way it happened meaning he pinned Eric Bischoff.

Russo was a huge part of the Attitude era. The Rock would not be a movie star today if Russo did not take the direction he did for a solid 2 1/2 years making the rating from 2.0 to 7.0.

IN regards to WCW, I loved the runs he did. WWF in 2000 was a monster because he helped create the monster. Nobody would give WCW a chance regardless. I thought his WCW runs were absolutely entertaining and amazing and the fact that he tried to bring reality and more excitement in the wrestling shows makes me think he's an absolute plus to the business.

Signing off as one of the biggest Russo marks!

Marty

Ok, if Russo was the creative genius you think he is, then WCW would still be around....or TNA would ACTUALLY be the face of pro wrestling. We wouldn't have had some of the off the wall bs matches that you KNOW came from Vince Russo.

Yeah the merger with AOL did a lot to end WCW, but that was because the show was complete and total shit. Everyone knows that and everyone can see that plain as day, who was the head guy? Who was everyone calling "boss" at the time? Vince Russo, look at TNA before he came into it. It was all about fresh young stars that put TNA on the map. The X Division was amazing and TNA was on it's way to becoming must see TV every week.. Then Russo came in and you could immediately see the effect on the product, hell the crowd knew it because during those crap matches you heard the "Fire Russo" chants, and that was throughout the entire arena.

Yeah he played a big part in the Attitude Era, but after he left it sustained itself and showed that Russo was just one gear in a big machine. He's a one hit wonder and will probably be nothing special ever again.

 

[Marty2Hotty]

scorpio.. you have to keep in mind that WCW was ALREADY dying before he got there. His last show peaked at a 6.9 in the WWF. He decided to jump to the compnay that was doing late 2s already. Do you expect the audience to jump immediately to WCW after seeing the WWF flourish for two years?

Nobody knew the great shows WCW were doing because the eyeballs were focused on WWF.

Keep in mind Russo signed with WCW for 2 years.. but he got demoted after pitching Tank Abbott winning the battle royal. Jeff was injured | Bret was injured... Sid was supposed to be #1 - going through everyone and then #30 was supposed to be shoot fighter tank abbott who knocks Sid with one punch and throws Sid over the ropes - great story and realistically could happen!

Russoc ame back in april 2000 and wrote 6 months.. i thought some of my favourite ever stuff came during the new blood/millionaires stories.. and even the way david won the title.. and the jokes that came out of it. it was entertaining. unfortunately, the WWF took off so high, and WCW's creative changed every two months that fans couldn't stick with WCW.

I think Russo kept WCW afloat longer than it actually would have. If he didn't go in late 1999. i think WCW would have died by mid 2000, rather than early 2001...

Russo has written some shows in TNA.. in full? nah.. many shows he'd have more control than others.. but it's obviously captivating stories/action/characters that draw the masses in.

I'm happy that TNA is doing their record ratings now. I dont think x division will draw to the casual public. it's still wrestling - albeit a little faster paced. i still find the matches boring.. but that's JUST ME online.. i'm sure others may like some of the action.. but i think it's how it's booked. what interferecne, how stories progress, etc.

I dont think Russo was a one gear machine at all. ATtitude era he was given 2 1/2 years and McMahon let him write the majority of the shows no holds barred and would change a few things here and there.

WCW, he had similar control but there was always politics preventing him from getting a 2 year run (the 2 years he originally signed for). I loved the 9 months he wrote in WCW as well as his WWF run. but if he wrote a solid 2 years, WCW would still be around today and I guarantee it.. if he wasn't cut off the first three months (where ratings did go up and the shows were a hundred times better) i think a new story would have been told

I just wish TNA would let him really write teh shows more today.. but Jeff is listening to the pions and critics on the net

If Jeff Jarrett would give Vince the control that McMahon gave him, TNA would be in 1.8 by now. - that's my take

 

[Christian Battlez]

Ok, read books like Eddie Guerrero's, and a few others out there that detail the death of WCW. .

Which books? Please give me more examples than that one Eddie Guerrero book.

Let's view some examples shall we? Pinata on a pole, Judy Bagwell on a Pole, Anything on a pole, .

50% Bischoff, 50% Russo.

David Arquette as World Champion leading to the death of the significance of titles,.

Was done to promote the movie ready to rumble and get publicity from the media for WCW.

Electrified Steel Cage, Last Rites Match, Prison Yard Brawl, Triple Cage match, Blindfolded steel cage match and I'm sure the list goes on. .

All done by a young company trying to make a name for itself and also Russo and Mantel are under Jarrett so if you want someone to blame blame Jarrett.

It's a well known fact that corny comedy angles, and outrageous gimmick matches have Vince Russo as their biggest mark. .

and McMahon doesn't love corny angles?

The man has only one thing to credit himself and that is he helped out with the attitude era. Just watch WCW when Russo had the reigns and you will see why Russo is so hated.

Which is a HUGE credit to have as the attitue era was arguably the biggest boom period in wrestling history.

 

[Marty2Hotty]

Good reply. I'm actually happy to see more people to "get" Russo's contributions to the business. Guys liek meltzer dont know shit. I found it interesting that Wade Keller interviewed Ed and Vince for Ultimate Insiders though.. it was interesting...

I'm just a fan of Russo trying new things. I liked a lot of the reality stuff he tried to incorporate in WCW. I always hated it when people online assumed casual viewers are too stupid to understand that shit. as a 16 year old back then that didn't surf the net religiously like i do now for wrestling newz, i watched it and "got" it for the most part

I might not have known that some of it was stemmed from real life, although from the way they talked about it on the show, i could only assume it was.

IE: when kidman came out and said on a radio interview hogan said kidman couldn't draw flies, as a guy who NEVER surfed the net, i assumed that part of the show was a shoot. Why i would think that is because you can't make up stuff like that. I immediately thought they used that real thing and made a fictional feud with hogan vs kidman and the intensity was absolutely insane.. because the hummer would nail hogan in there, and out comes the person revealed as eric bischoff

that was a great show with Russo and Bischoff teamingup as the bad guys. they teased dissension on teh show. i later found out that they were talking on the net that bischoff would lead teh old guys and russo would lead the young guys. teh tease FROM the show was that that was the direction that they were headed.

april 10, 2000 wcw was awesome. regardless of that show doing mid 2s.. for a first show after 3 months of bullshit, that was brilliant.

keep in mind wwf was doing mid to late 2s for a solid year under the attitude era before they really took off in 1998. russo never wrote for a solid year in wcw due to all the politics. there never was a vince mcmahon that invested solely in him. instead there were higherups and wrestlers talking to higherups trying to constantly backstab him and demote him.. which was the main difference between his wwf/wcw runs..

if jeff jarrett would be the vince mcmahon and just let this guy really use his mind and take the direction to crazy levels.. i think tna could grow even more faster than they are now.

tjhat's my take after following his runs sicne the wwf

 

[Mark0820]

TNA is getting ratings now because of one thing. It's not WWE programming. Russo has had nothing to do with it. Jarret lets him do what he wants because they are friends. If Russo were that good, Vince would have hired him again. He's had his good ideas, but generally his ideas suck.

 

[Marty2Hotty]

TNA is getting ratings now because of one thing. It's not WWE programming.

That's a stupid comment.. because they 'weren't wwe' for many years and they were lingering in 1.0 or less back then.

Jarrett still holds Russo back at times even though they are friends. Jeff probably pays too much attention to the critics.

McMahon did hire Russo back in 2002.. but then demoted him after reportedly guys like HHH/Undertaker, etc, talked smack about him.. so after he was demoted to consultant, he decided to sign with his friend jeff in TNA.

Your opinion of his ideas are your opinion. my opinion is he writes the most exciting television in wrestling ever. TNA is okay right now but I think it can be even more exciting and entertaining = full of great action, drama, comedy, and even more reality. I think that would put TNA over much faster if jeff let vince write the way mcmahon let vince write

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

Whether people want to admit it or not, Russo is a valuable member to have on any booking team. However, as his time in WCW proved, it is best to have someone with the ability to supervise his work. Although some of his ideas can be quite outlandish, I think it is important to remember that Russo has enough imagination to utilize the whole roster of a wrestling company. Thus, everyone that is getting paid to entertain and wrestle will have something to do; he may not give you the most flattering of roles (e.g., Kute Kip), but he at least gives you something to do that allows you to get airtime.

 

[Mark0820]

That's a stupid comment.. because they 'weren't wwe' for many years and they were lingering in 1.0 or less back then.

Jarrett still holds Russo back at times even though they are friends. Jeff probably pays too much attention to the critics.

McMahon did hire Russo back in 2002.. but then demoted him after reportedly guys like HHH/Undertaker, etc, talked smack about him.. so after he was demoted to consultant, he decided to sign with his friend jeff in TNA.

Your opinion of his ideas are your opinion. my opinion is he writes the most exciting television in wrestling ever. TNA is okay right now but I think it can be even more exciting and entertaining = full of great action, drama, comedy, and even more reality. I think that would put TNA over much faster if jeff let vince write the way mcmahon let vince write

TNA when they started had very few names to draw. The average fan who wasn't ordering the weekly PPVs wasn't going "Hey, I want to go watch AJ Styles against Samoa Joe." Now they have some much bigger names that are recognizable by the average person and they see good matches(sometimes) between the bigger names and the up and comers like Styles and Joe. They used the bigger names in advertisements, that has nothing to do with Russo.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

Russo can't be blamed for the death of WCW or the direction TNA is heading, that is mismanagement on both companies; has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH RUSSO. With that said, yeah Russo really is that bad. For what I've seen this guy doesn't know the first thing about wrestling (he proved it every week in WCW and is proving it every week with TNA). The thing about russo is everything he does is a gimmick, his storylines are about 95% non-sensical and did I mention he knows nothing about wrestling. Russo can be beneficial as long as someone is behind him that DOES know wrestling to do quality control on his shit (because thats what it is). This is a guy that booked a Viagra on a pole match, thought it was a good idea for Sid to do high flying moves, thought Tank Abbott should be heavyweight champ, and everyones favorite......... Making David Arquette Heavyweight champ to promote possibly the worst movie ever made. Here only a couple of reasons to hate Russo, I could go on forever but I'll stop now, I'm getting a little long winded here.

 

[Talon_DR]

Russo had very little to do with the death of the WCW Product. AOL-Time Warner didn't sell off WCW because of the product, they sold the company because they lost incredible amounts of money that came out of Timer Warner's pocket.

As for Russo, I respect everything he has done. Unfortunately some of the great things he has done has been counteracted against the things that fans weren't so high on.

For the record, I agree with Marty that Russo's product has lead to the increase in ratings. The fans want familiarity, and they have seen this familiar product for now over two years.

Russo is THE MAD SCIENTIST OF SPORTS ENTERTAINMENT. He helped pioneer Sports Entertainment. When utilized perfectly, Russo is an asset to any company.

With the right, editor, Russo could be an excellent writer. Not someone to destroy Russo's ideas but someone who could help shape Russo's ideas to stop any logic holes that appear.

The one big problem of Russo is that his philosophy of wrestling, excludes wrestling. The traditional values of wrestling, championships, match types and things like that are usually thrown by the wayside when Russo is in charge. Should the TNA Creative Team get a good grasp on that, only then will they be more successful.

 

[Pbenglish]

Vince Russo is interesting to me. On one hand, he deserves credit for helping to modernize WWF and taking it away from the childish direction it was going in at the time.
Unfortunately, he also deserves to be held to task for some of the more idiotic things he tried in his time. David Arquette, "_______" on a pole matches, the Jim Ross/"Oklahoma" thing and other nonsensical booking decisions he made.
I read Russo's book, "Forgiven", and I came away actually feeling sorry for the man. If he's to be believed (and after reading much about the kind of person Vince McMahon is, I do believe it), then he was expected by McMahon to give up his entire life to WWF/E, and he wasn't willing to do so. Personally, I think once he left, he floundered and tried way to hard to recapture what he accomplished in WWF/E.
All in all, I think Russo was the wrestling equivalent of a musical one hit wonder. Someone who had amazing success at one point in his career, but wasn't able to recapture that later on, despite his best intentions.

 

[LiberalKiller]

Off/On topc: That last Smackdown (3-6-09) was utter shit! I pray to the wrestling gods that TNA becomes the next WCW! Why? WWE needs some fn' competition. I am following their ratings (TNA) news, and they are improving greatly. My belief is, if WWE has some competition (TNA) we can have a second "wrestling war". If anyone is going to do it, it is Vince Russo. Vince Russo has some work to do, but is improving (ratings anyways). I used to hate TNA, but they are starting to grow on me and look like a mid-90's WWF. The ultimate goal would be a Attitude Era - part 2. It's possibe, even if some disbelieve. I'm a WWE mark, but good competition = better product. I'm pulling for you Vince Russo....

 

[mrarmageddon]

WWE has blown for some time now, this weeks Smackdown (which I rate as the equivalent to Impact in that they are both pre-recorded with results online where as Raw has benefit of being live) got a 2.0....by WWE standards for a show with Triple H in the main event, that is piss poor.

I'm a huge Russo mark and think he took the industry by the scruff of the neck in 95/96,a time when it was near death and gave characters dimensions we previously had never seen. Make no doubt about it, Austin would've faded into wrestling obscurity as the Ringmaster and The Rock would've been booed out the industry as Rocky Maivia had it not been for Russo seeing their natural charisma and turning it up to 11.

Sure he's made mistakes but as long as someone is their to moderate his ideas (as like all writers he's had a few bad ones) he is still for me the best wrestling writer in the business. I also think he's got rid of the 2 things that were worst about Vince Russo -

1) References to wrestling being fake/match endings etc (we know it isn't real but let us suspend belief for 90 mins).
2) Him being on TV talking about being a writer and being in power (same as above).

So keep up the good work Vince and make sure and I hope you don't let this Sting v Angle thing ruin the Main Event Mafia group, as currently they are making Impact unmissable and sending the rating ever closer to Smackdowns.

 

[Rome]

No, he's not.

Mantel, and Jarrett are. Most importanly Jarrett. Every internet wrestling news source reports stories on an almost monthly or bi-weekly state citing backstage heat and fights between creative (Jarrett) and the top-stars in the company (most recently Booker T).

What Jarrett doesn't get is that the child he berthed all those years ago at the Asylum has to progress if he ever expects this company to grow.

He has to push the company to it's limit by eliminating obstacles – himself included. No one knows any more than Jarrett just how useless he is, especially with a title around his waist.

This isn't the NWA anymore. You're hillbilly tactics don't apply to the real world in this day and age, Jeff. Let it go, and let your company move on without you like it's begging to do at the risk of success or failure.

 

[Y 2 Jake]

Depends how much he's putting into TNA. If the shit I see every week is down to him then yes. If it's not then what is he doing? TNA is just a bad WCW (circa 2000), something which Russo was part of.