Is it my imagination or is Reigns getting worse?

[BestSportsEntertainer]

Except that Cena and Austin were/are specifically known for their in ring work.

No they aren't/weren't. They're known for their charisma, character, and mic skills.

 

[Stan Hansen]

Both Austin and Cena are known for exactly that. Before Owen accidentally broke Austin's neck, that's ALL he was known for. Cena has always been considered by the industry as being innovative and being a very great in ring worker.

I don't know what else to say other than it's simply not true.

You named four of the best ENTERTAINERS of all time. The best four, honestly, the WWE has ever had.

They can put on good matches because they are charismatic, can work, can talk, etc.

Yes Austin COULD wrestle and hell he was called the Ringmaster (horrid name) as we all know. Austin did not become super over because he was wrestling 5 star matches from a technical standpoint.

 

[L@RISANO]

Dont quite get why there is so much importance on a huge moveset amongst the hardcore fanbase.

As others have mentioned, Roman Reigns' improvement in selling and in-ring psychology has made his matches, be it TV or PPV, much more interesting.


When last has he had a bad PPV match anyways? lMO, since the Rumble fiasco, he had faced quite a few different opponents at each PPV and managed to be in the arguable MotN each time. Don't see how that show him getting worse whatsoever.

 

[Blade]

Zero ring psychology

Lol. You're throwing around that word as if you understand what it means.

Anyway, I don't think Reigns is getting worse. He's still improving, it's just moving along slowly. I think Reigns' problem is that he's been in the ring with people who aren't helping him reach his potential. I mean, Big Show seems to phone it in these days, probably because his body is in some pain. And Bray is nearly as green as Reigns himself.

I think Reigns needs a good long-term feud with a top veteran who can help bring the best out of him. He needs to feud with someone like a Daniel Bryan or a John Cena. Someone who will guarantee good matches, and teach Reigns a ton along the way.

 

[Stan Hansen]

Lol. You're throwing around that word as if you understand what it means.

Anyway, I don't think Reigns is getting worse. He's still improving, it's just moving along slowly. I think Reigns' problem is that he's been in the ring with people who aren't helping him reach his potential. I mean, Big Show seems to phone it in these days, probably because his body is in some pain. And Bray is nearly as green as Reigns himself.

I think Reigns needs a good long-term feud with a top veteran who can help bring the best out of him. He needs to feud with someone like a Daniel Bryan or a John Cena. Someone who will guarantee good matches, and teach Reigns a ton along the way.

I couldn't agree more.

I think they need to save Cena for further along down the line.

I still would like to see a series of matches between Roman and HHH. A three match series with the 3rd ending in a Hell in a Cell match maybe.

Reigns needs to stay away from guys like Kane and Big Show. While they are veterans, they can't move like they need to anymore to keep up with Reigns in a normal match. They don't allow Reigns to really show himself nor will they bring the best out of him as you have pointed out.

 

[Stan Hansen]

I just watched the Main Event from WM 31 over again and damn it was a good match. Roman did his part, Brock did his, and Seth cashing in just topped it all off.

 

[Jeff Deliverer of Mail]

I don't know, personally...I liked the smashmouth match he had with Lesnar. Last night , I don't know if its a real injury or not, but Roman was favoring his shoulder for the duration of the match and that was pretty much the focus of the match...I kind of liked how they were working on his vulnerability and Harper was looking good.

But....I also agree what you are saying. His move set needs to expand....I don't care what the moves are at this point, he needs more of them. Like a frying pan chop, a normal bodyslam, a half nelson suplex over the top ropes, a simple back body drop , a claw plus scissor submission hold...he could easily do all these moves.

 

[L@RISANO]

I couldn't agree more.

I think they need to save Cena for further along down the line.

I still would like to see a series of matches between Roman and HHH. A three match series with the 3rd ending in a Hell in a Cell match maybe.

Reigns needs to stay away from guys like Kane and Big Show. While they are veterans, they can't move like they need to anymore to keep up with Reigns in a normal match. They don't allow Reigns to really show himself nor will they bring the best out of him as you have pointed out.

Reigns' injury at SummerSlam2014 meant that he lost the time required to play what he called "A Game of Thrones with the King of Kings" in the Shield break up story. Instead they skipped that part out and forced him into what now is the famous Royal Rumble 2015 fiasco.



I' d love to see him manipulated(Not Recruited) by Bray in this Anyone but You storyline. A heel turn on Ambrose or even Sting would do wonders for his character and actually be logical storyline given the fan rejection and his own failures in getting back to the WWE WHC chase.

There are rumours going around for Reigns vs Lesnar at Mania 32. Imagine Lesnar beats Taker and Heel Reigns finishes Sting.... Brock Lesnar vs a Heel Roman Reigns at Mania 32 would be a great match, lMO. (even though the SHIELD mark in me wants That elusive 3-way)

 

[Navi]

Brock Lesnar vs a Heel Roman Reigns at Mania 32 would be a great match, lMO. (even though the SHIELD mark in me wants That elusive 3-way)

I might buy that. I'm a Shield fan as well, but I don't think we'll see that until the following year.

 

[MoRtAnDaD]

I might buy that. I'm a Shield fan as well, but I don't think we'll see that until the following year.

Im totally with you, and in that vein, i would love for a heel roman find out he cant take out lesnar, and his 2 shield buddys run in and help him to take the monster down, in a complete shield heel fashion.

 

[Sexcellence of Sexecution]

Anybody who thinks having a lot of moves makes you a good wrestler is a fucking idiot.

That being said, let's talk about Roman Reigns. Reigns vs. Lesnar was one of my absolute favorite WrestleMania main events in terms of how the match was executed. It had a shit build but the match was wild. Lesnar, Reigns and Rollins all deserve credit of course, as does whoever was the agent for that match because it really was structured perfectly and accomplished everything it needed to accomplish. Following WrestleMania, Reigns has been in the proper spot on the card working the likes of Big Show and Bray Wyatt. He's not in the top spot obviously, but he's very far from the bottom.

So what does Reigns need to get to that next level? It isn't an expanded repertoire, and it really has little to do with his in-ring performance. It's character. Generally speaking, a well-defined character can be described with numerous adjectives. Takes John Cena for example. He's a never say die hero, an inspiration to kids, somebody who stands for his principles even when he is hated for it. John Cena has a well-defined character people can connect with. Roman Reigns doesn't. He's a tough guy that says very little, which is fine, but for that to really work you need more of an edge or mystique like Goldberg and Lesnar have. It really doesn't help that Reigns still wears the Shield gear and comes out to that music, because it holds him back from expressing any sort of individuality. Reigns needs to stand out more from a character perspective, not a wrestling perspective. I'm not saying he should absolutely turn heel or absolutely stay babyface but he needs to evolve into something more, and by evolve I don't mean add a fucking submission hold stolen from Japan to his moveset. As much as I love submission holds from Japan.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

I don't really see it. I think Reigns has gotten better overall, especially in terms of stringing his moves together in a cohesive manner and selling; I thought he sold his left arm "injury" great during his match with Harper on Raw.

In terms of overall athleticism and technical ability, Roman Reigns will probably always come up short. I also think that the announcers try to go overboard in selling his athletic ability, though it's mostly because Vince tells them to, such as when he does the Drive-By; they sometimes fawn over the move even though there's nothing remarkably athletic about it.

I also agree with the notion that having a huge move set doesn't make you a great wrestler. I've seen matches at indie shows, sometimes clips on YouTube from Japan, in which a wrestler uses all these moves and I always walk away thinking that the wrestler used those moves just for the sheer sake of using them. Much like wrestlers who have to use one high spot after another with little to no selling, jamming moves into a match is often a means of disguising, or an attempt to disguise, a lack of storytelling ability.

When I watch and listen to Reigns, I don't see a guy who's "the one" and I think he'll be met with renewed hostility if WWE tries to make him "the one". He doesn't have the personality or charisma and there's the sense that he'll ultimately try to be made into John Cena 2.0. I do think he'll be WWE Champion someday, but I don't think he'll ever be "the one" like Cena's been and maybe that's for the best. During the Attitude Era, while there were always some stars who were just bigger than others, there was never one singular guy that was "the face" of the company. Instead, there were probably half a dozen guys who had the capability and popularity to step up to the top spot in the company at any given time. If Austin got hurt or if The Rock was injured, one or the other could be counted on to step in; the same went for Taker, Triple H, Mick Foley and Jericho. Maybe that's the strategy WWE should go back to instead of Vince trying to put most of his eggs in John Cena's basket the way he has for near of a decade.

 

[Sexcellence of Sexecution]

During the Attitude Era, while there were always some stars who were just bigger than others, there was never one singular guy that was "the face" of the company. Instead, there were probably half a dozen guys who had the capability and popularity to step up to the top spot in the company at any given time. If Austin got hurt or if The Rock was injured, one or the other could be counted on to step in; the same went for Taker, Triple H, Mick Foley and Jericho. Maybe that's the strategy WWE should go back to instead of Vince trying to put most of his eggs in John Cena's basket the way he has for near of a decade.

This is pretty untrue. Stone Cold was clearly "the one." When JR declared that the Austin Era had begun when he won the belt at Mania 14, it really was true. The entire WWF was marketed around him at the time, he was the face of Attitude. The announcers would always talk about when Stone Cold was going to show up, or say "after the break, STONE COLD!" Russo once said in an interview that when he would go meet with Vince at that time, the only thing Vince cared about was "what's Austin doing on the show?", because he knew where his bread was buttered so to speak. From late 1997 to late 1999 Austin was 100% the top guy and there was absolutely no question about it. He never ever lost clean ever and was World Champion for a lot of that time. The Rock's surge to babyface popularity didn't really happen until late in 99 and he really exploded in 2000. But before that happened it was Stone Cold all the way.

 

[Jeff Deliverer of Mail]

This is pretty untrue. Stone Cold was clearly "the one." When JR declared that the Austin Era had begun when he won the belt at Mania 14, it really was true. The entire WWF was marketed around him at the time, he was the face of Attitude. The announcers would always talk about when Stone Cold was going to show up, or say "after the break, STONE COLD!" Russo once said in an interview that when he would go meet with Vince at that time, the only thing Vince cared about was "what's Austin doing on the show?", because he knew where his bread was buttered so to speak. From late 1997 to late 1999 Austin was 100% the top guy and there was absolutely no question about it. He never ever lost clean ever and was World Champion for a lot of that time. The Rock's surge to babyface popularity didn't really happen until late in 99 and he really exploded in 2000. But before that happened it was Stone Cold all the way.

I couldn't agree more, as great as The Rock and HHH were in the same period, Stone Cold Steve Austin was the cash cow, every single movement he made in WWE sent bills to Vince's pockets. He was so immensly popular that when he turned Heel at Wrestlemania vs The Rock with Vince's help, the fans still gave a big pop for his win anyway. It has been said that he was more popular than Hulk Hogan was in Hogans day, I don't know about that one though.

He's also responsible for one of the most insane crowd reactions in the history of wrestling on television when he showed up during The Invasion angle and stunned 25 people while J.R lost his mind at the table. He was so untouchable at one point Vince put a hilarious bounty on him for The Rumble and he beat the hell out of everyone and won The Rumble.

His merchandise is still selling today if I'm not mistaken, Austin 3:16. T shirts.

 

[L@RISANO]

This is pretty untrue. Stone Cold was clearly "the one." When JR declared that the Austin Era had begun when he won the belt at Mania 14, it really was true. The entire WWF was marketed around him at the time, he was the face of Attitude. The announcers would always talk about when Stone Cold was going to show up, or say "after the break, STONE COLD!" Russo once said in an interview that when he would go meet with Vince at that time, the only thing Vince cared about was "what's Austin doing on the show?", because he knew where his bread was buttered so to speak. From late 1997 to late 1999 Austin was 100% the top guy and there was absolutely no question about it. He never ever lost clean ever and was World Champion for a lot of that time. The Rock's surge to babyface popularity didn't really happen until late in 99 and he really exploded in 2000. But before that happened it was Stone Cold all the way.

Am sure JH isn't just referring to those 2 or so years SCSA was clearly the top, but until Cena came along where there were clearly a few different guys who got chances, as opposed to the last decade where it has been all John Cena.


If done right, the SHIELD trio can be the ones to carry the company forward alongwith the likes of Owens, Wyatt, Zayn and Balor, lMO. There is also Bryan, Cena, Orton and Lesnar still around for a few more years also.


The Roster quality is quite clearly there for the WWE to capitalize, sadly, Creativity doesn't seem to be matching it as yet.

 

[L@RISANO]

Anybody who thinks having a lot of moves makes you a good wrestler is a fucking idiot.

That being said, let's talk about Roman Reigns. Reigns vs. Lesnar was one of my absolute favorite WrestleMania main events in terms of how the match was executed. It had a shit build but the match was wild. Lesnar, Reigns and Rollins all deserve credit of course, as does whoever was the agent for that match because it really was structured perfectly and accomplished everything it needed to accomplish. Following WrestleMania, Reigns has been in the proper spot on the card working the likes of Big Show and Bray Wyatt. He's not in the top spot obviously, but he's very far from the bottom.

So what does Reigns need to get to that next level? It isn't an expanded repertoire, and it really has little to do with his in-ring performance. It's character. Generally speaking, a well-defined character can be described with numerous adjectives. Takes John Cena for example. He's a never say die hero, an inspiration to kids, somebody who stands for his principles even when he is hated for it. John Cena has a well-defined character people can connect with. Roman Reigns doesn't. He's a tough guy that says very little, which is fine, but for that to really work you need more of an edge or mystique like Goldberg and Lesnar have. It really doesn't help that Reigns still wears the Shield gear and comes out to that music, because it holds him back from expressing any sort of individuality. Reigns needs to stand out more from a character perspective, not a wrestling perspective. I'm not saying he should absolutely turn heel or absolutely stay babyface but he needs to evolve into something more, and by evolve I don't mean add a fucking submission hold stolen from Japan to his moveset. As much as I love submission holds from Japan.

Reigns does have a character since the Mania 31 build. That "One vs All" and now, "Anyone but You" stuff clearly points to a One Man Mission type. Sadly, it hasn't been developed enough to make anyone care about it in the storylines he has had.
Yes, Reigns has been unsuccessful in getting another 1-on-1 shot at the WWE WHC, but beyond that, he is still very much portrayed as a midcard superman, which means he hasn't fully won over the naysayers as yet.


As for changing up stuff... the music has to change now for sure, as the betrayal story has been put on hold. Until he gets back into the ME scene, preferably against Rollins/Ambrose, he should be given his own music. That said, I don't have an issue with the gear or him coming out through the audience as it keeps him unique in a sense.

 

[BillAlfonsos_Whistle]

I really really want to like Reigns.
The botched booking combined with last years injury has just stunted his organic growth so bad. Also...until he gets rid of that god awful "Super man Punch" I will always root for him to drop off the face of the earth. Might as well be the fucking cobra.

 

[Navi]

I really really want to like Reigns.
The botched booking combined with last years injury has just stunted his organic growth so bad. Also...until he gets rid of that god awful "Super man Punch" I will always root for him to drop off the face of the earth. Might as well be the fucking cobra.

That is an actual move they do in MMA, you know that right? Mind you when they do it, it's done to really hurt the opponent. Reigns has to dial it back or he might really knock someone out cold with it.

 

[mkw1962]

I do not think Roman is getting worse I think it is the storylines they have him in right now. He is suppose to lose and get screwed out of a Title shot at least for now. Roman is better in the ring than they are showing him to be, he has a lot more moves than he is using. His competition could be better but he is coming along slowly that is what Vince wants right now, a feud with John Cena or HHH would be nice and maybe the 2016 MITB would help.

 

[Jeff Deliverer of Mail]

I really really want to like Reigns.
The botched booking combined with last years injury has just stunted his organic growth so bad. Also...until he gets rid of that god awful "Super man Punch" I will always root for him to drop off the face of the earth. Might as well be the fucking cobra.

You know what ? The Superman Punch has a - live - problem to it. When the move is seen in real time , the MMA move doesn't look like anything special...but last week when he hit Bray Wyatt ..they did a bit more of a slow motion during the replay and you can see how much torgue and flash he puts into it in mid air...its pretty cool.

 

[Aquaman6686]

You know what ? The Superman Punch has a - live - problem to it. When the move is seen in real time , the MMA move doesn't look like anything special...but last week when he hit Bray Wyatt ..they did a bit more of a slow motion during the replay and you can see how much torgue and flash he puts into it in mid air...its pretty cool.

It's an ordinary punch, that looks incredibly weak, not to mention it's an insult to the greatest comic book character of all time to call it the "Superman Punch". I've been reading comics my entire life and not once did Superman ever do a jumping, flailing wussy punch.

 

[Jeff Deliverer of Mail]

It's an ordinary punch, that looks incredibly weak, not to mention it's an insult to the greatest comic book character of all time to call it the "Superman Punch". I've been reading comics my entire life and not once did Superman ever do a jumping, flailing wussy punch.

You have to remember that Roman is 6'3 , 265 pounds. He's not going to be as agile as a light heavyweight UFC fighter who performes the move to do some big damage. I've seen Superman punches connect very well in MMA and knock fighters down. I suppose I'll never sway you with the Superman punch as I find it lacking in real time myself but ...think of it this way...if you got into a fight with this Reigns in the parking lot and he jumped at you in the air and broke one side of your face with a real punch, would you still think it would be a weak looking move ? I imagine the guy holds back so he doesn't kill anybody in the ring...its only entertainment after all.

 

[rmp0012002]

I do not think Roman is getting worse I think it is the storylines they have him in right now. He is suppose to lose and get screwed out of a Title shot at least for now. Roman is better in the ring than they are showing him to be, he has a lot more moves than he is using. His competition could be better but he is coming along slowly that is what Vince wants right now, a feud with John Cena or HHH would be nice and maybe the 2016 MITB would help.

I agree that his competition could be better because the people he's in the ring with now aren't going to help him improve. Everyone on the main roster is looking out for themselves. Two of your points I have to disagree with.

1. I don't believe he has a lot more moves than he shows and his skillset is very limited. I don't blame that on him as he was pushed through development based on his looks and athletic ability rather than learning how to wrestle.
2. Vince doesn't want to push Roman slowly but burned himself by throwing him out there as the heir apparent and now has to figure a way to put Roman back in that spot.
I don't think Roman's problems are his doing. Vince loves big guys and Roman combines that with his looks but he was rushed through training. He's kind of between a rock and a hard place as he was never in the indies to learn the trade and he can't go back to NXT now since he's already a name on the main roster and can't go back to the learning stage.

 

[Scotty]

It's an ordinary punch, that looks incredibly weak, not to mention it's an insult to the greatest comic book character of all time to call it the "Superman Punch". I've been reading comics my entire life and not once did Superman ever do a jumping, flailing wussy punch.

There is nothing wrong with the Superman Punch. It's a legitimate punch and nitpicking the name is stupid. Roman uses it because it is theatrical. You are leaving out the fact that this is still an idustry where the goal isn't to hurt people but to make things look cool. It's why we have so many moves that look terrible but keep getting used *cough* 619 *cough*.