Int. Region, Third Round: Hardcore Match: (5) Chris Jericho vs. (20) Mitsuharu Misawa

[klunderbunker]

This is a third round match in the International Region. It is a Hardcore match held in the 02 Arena in London, England.

Rules: This match is won by pinfall or submission and anything goes with falls counting anywhere.

#5. Chris Jericho
Vs.

#20. Mitsuharu Misawa

​

Polls will be open for five days following a one day period for discussion. Voting will be based on who you feel is the greater of the two competitors. Post your reasons for why your pick should win below. Remember that this is non-spam and the most votes in the poll win. Any ties will be broken by the amount of posts of support for each candidate, with one vote per poster.

Assume the wrestlers are at full strength after their first two matches.

Also remember that this is a non-spam forum. If you post a response without giving a reason for your selection, it will be penalized for spam and deleted.

 

[Bythedockofthebay]

A guy who spent most of his career in the midcard vs a guy who dominated wrestling in the 90's to the 2000 (until I'd say 2005). Misawa was box office, he was dominate and probably the wrestler of the decade in the 1990's. And with every year, it becomes more and more clear how big an impact Misawa had. Guys like CM Punk, Cesaro, and Daniel Bryan show you that his impact hasn't faded but instead has been growing not only in Japan but also in the United States. And wrestling across the world paid tribute to this man.

I remember reading Gelgarin say about how Verne Gange's influence was so great, and there is no evidence of that for Misawa (at least to that point), Well, now you see the most popular guy in wrestling atm in Daniel Bryan being influenced by him. CM Punk who was one of the popular guys rave about Misawa, and now you have the future with guys like Cesaro following up their claims. Misawa's styles influenced all of wrestling. And before you start on the "PURO IS SHIT ARGUMENT" I'm not even talking about that. I'm talking about how his high flying style and speed based offense in the early to mid 90's showed guys how to use that against heavy hitters in the wrestling world. Later transitioning to the King of the Road style and then finally transforming again to a more in ring storytelling style.

To go along with this Chris Jericho himself has called Misawa one of the greatest ever and one of his favorite performers of all time. I think Chris would be honored just to share a ring with Misawa.

Misawa was dominate, Jericho wasn't. Jericho in his prime wouldn't be in the same league as Misawa.

Winner- Misawa after Emerald Flowsion.

 

[Bernkastel]

On one hand we have Chris Jericho... a relatively big time player in a big pond who received mid to top billing throughout his career because he's never been a top drawing star. On the other hand we have Mitsuharu Misawa... a consistently big time player in a big pond who received top billing throughout most of his career because he was a top drawing star.

In the late 90's Misawa was arguably Japan's biggest draw, since his presence in All Japan absolutely did help them turn their business around. Jericho simply had a supporting role in the WWE during the 90s'/00's. Misawa created his own promotion, outdid his former bosses by taking all the other big stars with him, took their TV time slot, took their ratings and revenue, and drove AJPW into a financial hole after working so hard to bring it to new heights. Story sound familiar? Why that's what Hogan did... save for creating a new company from scratch.

TL;DR version: Misawa was a bigger draw than Jericho, Misawa had a more lasting impact on wrestling than Jericho, Misawa had more important title reigns and classic matches than Jericho, Misawa was relevant as a top draw for longer than Jericho... basically everything Jericho did Misawa did better.

As for the match stip it's not like Misawa hasn't ever fought hardcore before. It's not like he wouldn't know how to pick up and swing a chair. It's not like he hasn't fought tooth and nail and has given everything he had to put his opponents away using any means necessary. It's evident that he has.

Don't let the seedings sway you. Jericho is massively overseeded. Misawa is massively underseeded. Misawa should and would win this match.

Vote Misawa.

 

[LSN80]

I'm with Echelon on this one. I should preface this post by saying that I'm a huge Misawa fan, and while I'm a fan of Jericho's, he's simply in over his head against Misawa, regardless of the stipulation. A street fight doesn't change much here.

Once Misawa entered his prime, he not only beat every big name that he faced in All-Japan Pro Wrestling, but his first championship reign of almost two years-after beating Stan Hansen- is, I'm guessing, longer then all six of Jericho's reigns combined. It's no knock on Jericho, but Jericho's role was that of transitional champion and floater between the mid-card and the main event. Misawa was a dominant main eventer through-out all of the 90's.

Further, when he left All-Japan pro wrestling to form Pro-Wrestling NOAH, he took all but less than 10 All-Japan wrestlers with him. If that doesn't speak to the respect the man garnered in the business, I don't know what does. Again, that's not saying Jericho isn't respected, he is. But he's never gone from being head booker in one company, being forced out by the board, and having almost the entire roster of the company he was forced out of follow him to start a new promotion. It's simply unheard of, and that alone gives him a greater legacy than Jericho.

As for the stipulation, I don't think it favors either man, to be honest. Jericho may have been in more street fights than Misawa, I'm not sure. But the two prime ones I can think of are his two with HBK, where he went 1-1 against a past his prime Michaels.

Jericho simply got a better seed based off name recognition, but Misawa was the bigger talent with the better legacy and was a bigger draw. Misawa is in the top 3 in terms of all-time professional wrestlers in Japanese history, while Jericho would be lucky to crack the top 20 overall in the States. Misawa's role was to fight big stars and to beat them, while Jericho's has mostly been to put them over.

I'm voting Misawa here.

 

[X]

Mi-sa-wa! Mi-sa-wa! Mi-sa-wa!

Yeah this one is handily in favor of Misawa. Jericho is an all time great, no doubt about it, but he's never quite cracked into that top echelon of performers. Misawa not only has, but he basically ruled Japanese wrestling for 20 odd years as the most popular and by far most talented performer of his generation (only Kobashi comes even close). I could list off endless five star matches, memorable feuds, title reigns, and other accomplishments but I think my peers have done an adequate enough job in that department. Suffice to say Misawa is just superior in every single aspect one can be superior as a professional wrestler. Anyone who dares to argue this, by all means, step up to the plate.

 

[The Brain]

Going with Misawa here. He was just too dominant. Jericho was a good go to guy once in a while when there wasn't a better main event option but he could just as easily be wrestling Evan Bourne as John Cena at any given time. Misawa was always a main event player. I'm sure this would be a good match but certainly one Jericho would lose.

 

[Dmbfantomas]

Chris Jericho is one of those guys you absolutely want on your company. Good hand in the ring, great mic worker, effective as a face or a heel, doesn't mind where he is on the card, you can trust him with the belt, an he'll have no problem doing the job for anyone either. Good locker room guy, and just an all around asset. Again, a guy you totally want in your company.

Misawa, on the other hand, is the guy you build your company around. Great box office draw, legendary matches up the wazoo, massively influential with fans and wrestlers alike.

Misawa is the money, Jericho is the guy who works with the money to make the money worth even more.

Vote Misawa.

 

[HBsam31]

Jericho was only a maineventer in spots, and Misawa dominated for a long time. Jericho had a great career, but Misawa's was better.

 

[Richard Blonoff]

Jericho is the only logical vote here. Misawa died after taking a bump in a normal match. This is a hardcore match, he stands no chance at coming out alive....not that he could come out alive because he is already dead but my point stands.

Besides, Jericho was the first ever Undisputed Champion of the biggest wrestling organization in the world. Misawa may have been big in whichever Japanese fed he was in, but we all know Japan is smaller on average than other places. The long and hard of it is that Misawa just doesn't stand up. Jericho is wood that will not bend. He is rock hard, standing tall and erect in the face of Misawa. This will be such a walk in the park I bet Jericho has time to pitch a tent mid match and relax. Misawa is getting the shaft here. Misawa may work a bit stiffy, but Jericho has that manly pride. Plus Misawa looks a bit chubby, he isn't the rigid superstar we all love. Jericho will rocket to the top. Jericho will rail him, he will be sailing at full mast in this one. When this one reaches its climax, Jericho will still be standing tall.......penis.

 

[Hollywood Naitch]

Chris Jericho is one of those guys you absolutely want on your company. Good hand in the ring, great mic worker, effective as a face or a heel, doesn't mind where he is on the card, you can trust him with the belt, an he'll have no problem doing the job for anyone either. Good locker room guy, and just an all around asset. Again, a guy you totally want in your company.

Misawa, on the other hand, is the guy you build your company around. Great box office draw, legendary matches up the wazoo, massively influential with fans and wrestlers alike.

Misawa is the money, Jericho is the guy who works with the money to make the money worth even more.

Vote Misawa.

Yeah, this sounds about right to me. I've been struggling with how to put across an argument that explains my thoughts. This is pretty much it.

Jericho is awesome, and personally I'd rather watch him than Misawa but you have to go with the Japanese legend in this match, its the right choice.

My only argument for Jericho is that he has beaten 2 icons of US wrestling (Austin and The Rock) in 1 night for the Undisputed Title, but that was a 1-off, and lightning wouldn't be striking twice.

This would be a very good match, one of the best in this round of the tournament for sure, but as Jericho has done on so many occasions he puts on a great match but does the job.

 

[nightmare]

Fact: Chris Jericho can take a belly to back suplex & then go have a pretzel. Misawa cannot. So what the hell do you think a Codebreaker will do? Probably shoot his rib cage out through his back.




Fact: Chris Jericho is Canadian. During a period of time, The Canadian government was genetically engineering their offspring to excel at close quarters combat. The director of this operation for the Navy side of things was none other than Stu Hart. After Hart 'retired' when the program shut down, he kept his work going with a select handful of students over the next few decades. Those subjects were put through violent, brutal sessions of torture in what was affectionately termed 'The Dungeon'. This is a place where people actually wanted to go in their spare time & get the shit kicked out of them instead of playing golf or gardening. One of those sexy beasts was Chris Jericho. A man built to dismantle others in hand to hand combat. What did Misawa spend his youth doing? Being scared of a giant lizard & walking around with a Hello Kitty thermos filled with green tea.




It really is easy folks. When Jericho wins this round & people start to act like prissy little girls, just remember: "Dont blame Canada- blame yourselves."

 

[Bythedockofthebay]

Jericho is the only logical vote here. Misawa died after taking a bump in a normal match. This is a hardcore match, he stands no chance at coming out alive....not that he could come out alive because he is already dead but my point stands.

Besides, Jericho was the first ever Undisputed Champion of the biggest wrestling organization in the world. Misawa may have been big in whichever Japanese fed he was in, but we all know Japan is smaller on average than other places. The long and hard of it is that Misawa just doesn't stand up. Jericho is wood that will not bend. He is rock hard, standing tall and erect in the face of Misawa. This will be such a walk in the park I bet Jericho has time to pitch a tent mid match and relax. Misawa is getting the shaft here. Misawa may work a bit stiffy, but Jericho has that manly pride. Plus Misawa looks a bit chubby, he isn't the rigid superstar we all love. Jericho will rocket to the top. Jericho will rail him, he will be sailing at full mast in this one. When this one reaches its climax, Jericho will still be standing tall.......penis.

Well considering Jericho thinks of Misawa as one of his favorites ever I could see him erect during this match. That said Jericho would have one big moment in this match blow his load, and be exhausted afterwards. Laying on the canvas just hoping that Misawa touches him to pin him.

It would be just like one of Jericho's title reigns, It starts with a lot of hype, ends quickly, and people are thanking God it's over when someone finally pins him.

 

[Bythedockofthebay]

Fact: Chris Jericho can take a belly to back suplex & then go have a pretzel. Misawa cannot. So what the hell do you think a Codebreaker will do? Probably shoot his rib cage out through his back.

Or like most of Jericho's offense, it'll do nothing more than piss Misawa off.

Fact: Chris Jericho is Canadian. During a period of time, The Canadian government was genetically engineering their offspring to excel at close quarters combat. The director of this operation for the Navy side of things was none other than Stu Hart. After Hart 'retired' when the program shut down, he kept his work going with a select handful of students over the next few decades. Those subjects were put through violent, brutal sessions of torture in what was affectionately termed 'The Dungeon'. This is a place where people actually wanted to go in their spare time & get the shit kicked out of them instead of playing golf or gardening. One of those sexy beasts was Chris Jericho. A man built to dismantle others in hand to hand combat. What did Misawa spend his youth doing? Being scared of a giant lizard & walking around with a Hello Kitty thermos filled with green tea.

Misawa was a national champion in amateur wrestling, plus your right he was afraid of Godzilla as kid. So you know what Misawa did? He grew up to be a man, and skinned that fucking Dinosaur to make his signature stylish green pants bitch.

It really is easy folks. When Jericho wins this round & people start to act like prissy little girls, just remember: "Dont blame Canada- blame yourselves."

Nah I won't cry, I don't care, because he's already made it further than I expected here. It would be stupid for him to lose to someone like Jericho who isn't even in his league. But if he does so be it.

 

[Dragon Chief]

Mitsuharu Misawa should win here, Chris Jericho is arguably the best loser in the industry, he puts over talent at his expense but delivers a memorable match to elevate that talent. Mitsuharu Misawa on the other hand is one who doesn't lose as frequently but does put on excellent matches time and time again. The rules don't favour either wrestler in my eyes as Jericho loses matches with all types of stipulations and Misawa is a technical purest, I give this to him in the end.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

Although I'm somewhat ignorant on Japanese wrestling I can't think of 1 good reason to vote for Jericho in this match, not one. Misawa's career speaks for itself, whether you want to count his massive number of 5 star matches, his placement as the top guy in All Japan and NOAH, his charisma, his ability to draw and the fact that he wasn't a transitional champion like Jericho was, the phrase "anything you can do I can do better" certainly applies in this case.

Jericho is a very entertaining guy to watch and could truly make the most out of any situation he was ever put in but Misawa is one of the most influential Japanese wrestlers of all time. I'm pretty sure Misawa isn't having a spinal cord injury while he's in his prime so there's no reason to vote for Jericho here.

Don't be biased and vote Misawa.

 

[nightmare]

Or like most of Jericho's offense, it'll do nothing more than piss Misawa off.

Or he dies. Its happened before. If we are voting in this thing using arguments based on what has happened before in the ring- then you should at least accept it has some validity.

Misawa was a national champion in amateur wrestling,

What does being an amateur national champion have to do with a genetically altered government funded grappling machine?

plus your right he was afraid of Godzilla as kid. So you know what Misawa did? He grew up to be a man, and skinned that fucking Dinosaur to make his signature stylish green pants bitch.

Godzilla is not made of spandex.

 

[Bythedockofthebay]

Or he dies. Its happened before. If we are voting in this thing using arguments based on what has happened before in the ring- then you should at least accept it has some validity.

Well if we're talking about people primes, he died long after that. If we're including past their primes, flair should be out for losing to guys like Jay Lethal and others in TNA wrestling, and Hogan should be destroyed by guys like Brock.

What does being an amateur national champion have to do with a genetically altered government funded grappling machine?

You asked what he did as a youth. That's what he was doing, and Jericho bitched out of the Dungeon from what I understand.

Godzilla is not made of spandex.

That's all that was left after Misawa ripped him apart.

 

[Tastycles]

There is no way Misawa would win this match in Britain.

British fans like:

Charisma
The Funnies
Pantomime

A country that produced William Regal has Big Daddy, Kendo Nagasaki (not really Japanese) and Giant Haystacks as its favourite wrestlers. None of those people are the technical, intelligent wrestlers that Misawa is, they are pastiches that would welcome Jericho of the late 90s and early 2000s with open arms.

Misawa is too much of a wrestler to fit into British ideals. That's why no British posters ever talk about Japanese wrestling, we think it's shit.

 

[Bernkastel]

There is no way Misawa would win this match in Britain.

British fans like:

Charisma
The Funnies
Pantomime

A country that produced William Regal has Big Daddy, Kendo Nagasaki (not really Japanese) and Giant Haystacks as its favourite wrestlers. None of those people are the technical, intelligent wrestlers that Misawa is, they are pastiches that would welcome Jericho of the late 90s and early 2000s with open arms.

Misawa is too much of a wrestler to fit into British ideals. That's why no British posters ever talk about Japanese wrestling, we think it's shit.

Location should and would mean fuck all. If it did then Santo wouldn't be losing to Sting in a state that has a definitive Hispanic population. Also if it did this match would stack up like Inoki/Flair match: Misawa = face; Jericho = heel. Yourself even stated that Brits don't take kindly to heels.

We should be voting for the bigger legend to win, and that's Misawa.

 

[Bythedockofthebay]

There is no way Misawa would win this match in Britain.

British fans like:

Charisma
The Funnies
Pantomime

A country that produced William Regal has Big Daddy, Kendo Nagasaki (not really Japanese) and Giant Haystacks as its favourite wrestlers. None of those people are the technical, intelligent wrestlers that Misawa is, they are pastiches that would welcome Jericho of the late 90s and early 2000s with open arms.

Misawa is too much of a wrestler to fit into British ideals. That's why no British posters ever talk about Japanese wrestling, we think it's shit.

That's odd because Misawa wrestled in FWA wrestling and also received loud cheers, not to mention the man helped bring the GPWA which is a spreads across the globe. He's known to at least some British fans and is considered at least popular with them even though I don't know how big FWA is to be fair..

 

[X]

Yeah I too would have to disagree with the argument that Jericho would be the face and crowd favorite here because it's in Britain. British fans are pretty well known for being excessively smarky, so having the chance to see Misawa in person would be a huge deal to them. So the crowd would likely be well in Misawa's pocket.

 

[Tastycles]

Being liked by the 15 people who go and watch FWA is a very different prospect from going to watch an event at the O2 Arena. It's not about being a face or a heel, it's about being a discernible character because most people who watch wrestling here are children. What children are going to relate to Misawa? The 11 year old kids I teach (and the only people I know that watch wrestling) love cartoonish characters, they don't care about good technique. That's why they like John Cena and Bray Wyatt more than Daniel Bryan.

 

[Bythedockofthebay]

Being liked by the 15 people who go and watch FWA is a very different prospect from going to watch an event at the O2 Arena. It's not about being a face or a heel, it's about being a discernible character because most people who watch wrestling here are children. What children are going to relate to Misawa? The 11 year old kids I teach (and the only people I know that watch wrestling) love cartoonish characters, they don't care about good technique. That's why they like John Cena and Bray Wyatt more than Daniel Bryan.

Again I'll admit that I don't know that much about British wrestling, I know he wrestled there and believe(not sure I think I read that he did in PWI) he wrestled Dynamite Kid in the eighties a couple times in England, and that he was in BCW as well. That might be very little, and it might not mean as much as it used to. That being said I could say that someone like Lou Thesz or Ed Lewis wouldn't draw in America today. But there's no doubt that Misawa should go over Jericho in any arena.

 

[nightmare]

But there's no doubt that Misawa should go over Jericho in any arena.

I sure bet that people said the same thing about Jericho when he was facing Rock & SCSA, in a tournament setting, to crown the Undisputed Champion. Should go over, is so very very different than will go over.


Misawa is ripe for the picking. Heel Jericho going over a Japanese legend in an international branch of a tournament would be just the thing to be booked. Heat, heat, everywhere heat. Promoters would love it, Jericho would run with it & there would be a huge money match next round to see if the face could shut Jericho's mouth & exact some revenge.


Jericho wins this one. You all know this tournament would not be booked to have all the fan favorites win each match. Jericho is a perfect fit to walk away with one of those big upset victories over a face. It would be huge & the next round match would be pure money.

 

[X]

I sure bet that people said the same thing about Jericho when he was facing Rock & SCSA, in a tournament setting, to crown the Undisputed Champion. Should go over, is so very very different than will go over.


Misawa is ripe for the picking. Heel Jericho going over a Japanese legend in an international branch of a tournament would be just the thing to be booked. Heat, heat, everywhere heat. Promoters would love it, Jericho would run with it & there would be a huge money match next round to see if the face could shut Jericho's mouth & exact some revenge.


Jericho wins this one. You all know this tournament would not be booked to have all the fan favorites win each match. Jericho is a perfect fit to walk away with one of those big upset victories over a face. It would be huge & the next round match would be pure money.

Who would be booked to win and who should win are two entirely different things. This tournament is to decide the best all around wrestler, not to decide who would be booked to win. There is such a thing as kayfabe here.

I mean, if it's just the "who would be booked to win?" tournament we wouldn't even do it because Hulk Hogan would win every single time every single year.

Besides which, your argument of Jericho being booked to win over Misawa because this is in International territory (Britain technically) and would garner a lot of heat makes no sense, because Misawa would be eliminated and there would be no big money rematch. The heat wouldn't carry over to the next round when Jericho faces someone completely unrelated, it doesn't work like that.

And as for the Undisputed Title win, lets not forget Jericho needed both Mr. McMahon AND Booker T's help to defeat both The Rock and Austin, neither of those victories were clean or in the least bit impressive, and in fact started off his title reign with all of the memorability of a wet fart. From there he was booked as a complete and total joke, rarely getting clean pins, and was basically the background story in his own Wrestlemania main event feud, where he played the role of Stephanie's bitch and dog walker. Yeah, what an incredibly impressive feat that title reign was.

There's absolutely no argument for Jericho winning this besides people not knowing who Misawa is, or just not caring to do their research. I can count on one hand the amount of people who pinned Misawa cleanly during his pivotal years. Jericho on the other hand lost constantly, and to everyone. His most memorable accomplishment is cheating with the help of 2 other people to win a title that he then went on to do absolutely nothing with except shine up in preparation for Triple H to take it from him.