How to get younger talent over effectively

[JohnJohnson]

WWE currently does not have as much star power as it once did. Today we have Cena, Orton, Punk, Bryan as the top full-timestars. Big Show can arguably be put in that class as well. There seems to be a big gap between the mid card and the main event tier, at least in my opinion. A very large majority of the roster is still low and mid carders in need of a push or just kind of staying stagnant.

The main event scene has been spread far too thin in my opinion with the mid acrd tier too congested. I can't recall any other era in wrestling where they had to rely so heavily on part time stars from before to carry the bigger shows. We have Lesnar, Rock, Jericho, Triple H, Taker stepping in the ring part time especially for Mania. It can be argued that Mania can't succeed without these names. I don't recall any era before where Mania relied so heavily on performers not on the main roster. Then in between we get appearances of people like Foley, Edge, HBK, Flair to help boost viewership. When have new talent continually coming over but they don't seem to go that far, or at least not for a long time. Biggest exception I'd say would be the Shield. But why them? I think it's because of the way they came in and right away took out all of the guys at the top. They didn't come in and start off at the bottom like a lot of stars coming from developmental do. They came in with a unique gimmick, good amount of TV time, and feuded with basically all of the main eventers. They are all pretty much guaranteed a prosperous future whether as a stable or as individuals. I think this is the most effective way to get the younger talent over.

People like Lesnar and Angle came in and went to the main event scene almost immediately. Then you have Ryback who was working bs squash matches against people not even on the roster and eventually working his way up to jobbers. Granted he is not that talented, but he could have been a lot more succesful if he was put into a meaningful feud right away with someone on the upper mid card. If he came in and feuded with Show right away, he would have developed more credibility and then a win over CM Punk in Cena's absence(even if in a non title match) would hae solidified him. Then all that is needed is to keep the momentum going y having some type of story around him for people to give a damn.

I believe they started doing this right with Bray Wyatt, having him come in and feud with Kane. But then they killed that momentum by not giving him and his stable much ring time if any on Raw. Istead they have him work with low card talent that don't have anything to do on mackdown and Main Event. I feel WWE needs to focus more on this stable, especially Wyatt, because he has potential to be a top heel in the company, but not if they keep doing this with him. The problem is that, like Ryback, he will get stale before he gets the push. People will look at him as someone who is a B show talent working with mid and low carders, and will eventually get tired of the same thing happening every match. This is my favorite gimmick, and his entrance is great. his promos are great. But there is no story with him to keep me interested long term. I know there is going to be some sort of pay off when Kane returns, but Kane will likely join him....then what. They need to put Wyatt in a storyline feud involving some of the upper talent and have Kane be the scale tipper so to speak.

You have stars like Ziggler who are great but are held back. But Ziggler busts his ass to steal the show and shows his hunger. I believe this will pay off for him later. Ambrose is very hungry and driven and you can tell with the way he works in the ring. Other stars like Gabriel, Kingston, Barrett, Miz, etc could really learn from this. on top of that, they need to be booked as hungry. RVD is great, but he is past his prime and almost falls into that part timer category mentioned before. They could bring someone like Sami Zayn to debut attacking Del Rio or costing him a non title match. Cut a few promos on him and then feud with him. He doesn't even have to win at first but eventually have him win a match either against Del Rio or maybe RVD for a #1 contenders spot. Let him fight for the title. Does he have to win right away? No. He doesn't even have to grab the title in this feud. As long as he gets a few non title wins to build him up as a credible performer. Then you can put him in a feud with someone like Barrett but add some type of interesting story to it. Eventually you can tie this into a 3 way with the WHC since both will be elevated to that level. This could ge Barrett a title run and help sement Zayn as a top performer who will eventually win. Also Ricardo should be managing someone from developmental, not an already over vet.

When Bryan wins the belt you can have someone like Chris Hero come up and immediatley engage him. The point is, have some of theyounger guys come up and say they arre the new generation and have them go for what they want. If they don't get it book them in a storyline that people can sink their teeth into so they stay relevant. This way the Main Event scene isn't spread so think when top stars like Cena and Sheamus get injured. you have to set up the next generation of top stars.

 

[#tamale]

I thought it was Kassius Ohno...

The way they are debuting stars is fine and the main event scene is great. You're trying to find flaws in a system that doesn't have that many.

I would say that the last step for the newer stars is if/when WWE gets NXT that national TV deal. Some fans are aware of NXT, but with that type of exposure, the newer stars can get a broader audience.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

The system is not great - but they have made all the corrections they can.

The issue is there is no other way TO GET OVER than the WWE way, no other place a talent can truly become special before they get there. even 12 years ago you still had that, ECW and WCW offered enough variety that someone like an RVD, Taz or, Radicalz or Chris Jericho could "catch fire" enough that they not only knew what to expect when they got to the E but their debuts were not "from the ground up". We knew who these people were and wanted to see them in a WWF ring, their debuts were important events.

Today you have everyone filtered through NXT regardless of their stature or prior exposure, guys like Consequences Creed had to an extent gotten over in TNA - but not in the WWE style and how long has he been in developmental now? 3 years or so? In the past he would have just debuted weeks or months after he left TNA, they would capitalise on the "shiny" new star who was on rival TV only weeks before. Today they can't do that and nor do they want to. Even Punk and Bryan, guys acknowledged as the best non WWE talents out there sat in developmental...

Talent cannot get over the way they did prior, nor can they do anything outside of the box or counter to the norm. Look at the heat Chris Hero got cos he didn't feel the need to be a muscle man... look at how guys like Santino, who had solid, effective gimmicks were forced to change completely when they got to the main roster... look how Johnny Curtis went through 3 different tries before Fandango or how Ryback was in developmental for 7 years on and off!!

Yet you look at the ones who did go to TNA or ROH or even Japan and to a man they are better than they were... MVP, Shelton Benjamin, Harry Smith and even Kennedy are more over than they were and even Tensai was a far better worker till they got their claws in again. Any of those 4 guys could come back and be instantly a bigger deal than when they left, but the E won't allow that - they'd make Shelton go back to NXT for a bit just to get back into their groove... they'd make Harry Smith lose all the good work he's done to go back to being DH Smith rather than his British Bulldog/hardman MMA/Davey Boy Smith thing he's using now. They'd put MVP back in the wetsuit rather than let him display his tats...

They also give talent STUPID names... to this day I cannot believe anyone can take the name Dolph Ziggler seriously, sure I hear his grandad was called Dolph but even so it's a poor take on a movie name... Big E. Langston, Kassius Ohno, Antonio Cesaro, Sami Zayn and Adrian Neville... they're horrid names and are like albatrosses round the neck of talent just so it can be "owned" by Vince. There is no reason we don't have Claudio Castiglioni or Chris Hero other than a trademark... Curtis Axel, get the fuck out with the tribute stuff the tribute is using his family name...but Vince won't make dollar out of it...

I actually can't see many of the new crop getting over... if Barrett couldn't and god knows he hasn't been terrible or even disappointing - the E's handling of him has then what hope has Adrian Neville got or Corey Graves... Barrett was the sure fire, cannot miss talent and they missed with him... his injury didn't help but that was caused by another talent trying everything in his power to get over and sacrificing some safety to do so...

It's gonna take something seriously out of left field for one of these guys to get over properly like Austin did but I don't think the E has the balls to allow that anymore...

 

[JohnJohnson]

I agree with you THTRobtaylor. The fact that WWE restricts talent so much and gives them stupid names or assigns them dumb gimmicks and restricts their in ring abilities makes it hard for newer stars to get over. Not everyone should be working from the ground up so to speak. Some people should be able to come in as Y2J, Radicalz, RVD etc. Getting NXT a national TV deal would help that for sure. People would then recognize the talent when they debut.

I think people would get over easier if they were able to work a wider variety of matches. ROH has some incredible matches and talents. If they were able to work that style from time to time, I think the fans would appreciate the variety and get behind the new stars,

Some might argue that the Main event is fine. At any period in time there were a good handful of top main eventers. In the 80s you had Hogan, Pipper, Andre the Giant, Macho Man, Warrior, Savage. Later you had Austin, Taker, Rock, HHH, Foley, Kane, Big Show. Later on you see HHH, Taker, Kurt Angle, Lesnar, Show, Jericho. Eventually it was Cena, Edge, Jericho, HBK, HHH, Batista, Orton even Goldberg(for a while). Well at this point HHH and Taker wrestle about twice a year, HBK, Y2J, Batista and Edge are all gone. I believe with them all leaving pretty close together there was a need to push CM Punk to the top tier, which worked. But now we have Punk, Orton, Bryan(who just now reached it, bt with a good push and storyline). With Cena injured we only have 3 top contenders. With 2 of them feuding with each other they leave Punk feuding witha midcarder(which I don't mind). They are pretty much one injury away from collapsing their top tier main event scene. They have some solid guys in the upper mid card WHC scene, but with the lack of credibility in that belt they can't carry the company. It's time to get some names up there and sit at a comfy 5-6 top performers that can be switched around to Feud. Look at the WWE title scene of the of Punk's reign. CM Punk feuded with Cena(the other top draw) a little with Orton(the only other in that tier) and a brief stint with Bryan which was more about AJ. The rest has been on and of with either Cena or a part timer (HHH/Nash, Y2J, Rock). And then once he gave the belt up to the other top draw they had to put him in with Taker and Lesnar because there is no other top tier for him to feud with. This left Cena and Orton, but with Cena's injuries they had to push Bryan all of a sudden. I'm a HUGE fan of the Daniel Bryan push, but I feel they still need to push some more names to the top tier just to keep it solid and not have to bring part timers for Manias. Rock might not be able to do another, this might be Takers last, lesnar only has so much as well as Jericho.

 

[MCMG]

The top stars are there to be relied on. That is what makes them the best... and if you create some more top stars then they will also be relied on.

While I do think that the WWE are misusing a lot of their younger talent, I don't think the gap between the top and the mid-card is as big as you suggest. Look at the late 90's; it was The Rock, Austin, DX, Taker, Kane and Mankind. That was it. After those names the top superstars were guys like The Big Bossman, Shamrock, Gangrel, Goldust, Val Venus. Hardly top names in the history of the company. Just solid mid-carders meaning the gap between the mid-card and the top was astronomical. Moreover, the majority of superstars have the potential to feud for a World Title. There aren't many who are mid-carders or tag-team wrestlers for life.

I'll just keep using the late 90's/early 2000's for reference; the WWE had the benefit of ECW and WCW helping produce stars. The Rock, HHH and The Undertaker were the top names they effectively produced but guys like Austin, Mankind, Jericho, Benoit, RVD all came having incredible experience from elsewhere. That means it will, in theory, take longer for the superstars to get over. You can't compare the indies to WCW and ECW in terms of actually producing top level stars. The WWE are having to do it independently which takes time unlike throwing Chris Jericho on TV and everyone knowing who he is. Also, comparing guys Kurt Angle and Brock Lesnar to Ryback is absurd. Natural talent has to be factored in.

In the modern day the guys at the top aren't as good and the mid-carders are definitely better. Therefore the gap is significantly smaller and the WWE have to build these superstars into main-eventers. Guys like Ziggler, Wyatt, Sandow, Ryback, Axel, Barrett will all get their chance, I'm sure of it, but that takes time. Sheamus and Cena are injured and it looks like Cody Rhodes and The Shield will step up. Fantastic news for the WWE because when these two return; the WWE will be even stronger.

The sad thing is, they do have enough time to develop these young wrestlers into stars. People complain that John Cena hogs the spotlight but at least he is a top quality superstar that is a draw. Fuck knows what Alberto Del Rio offers. Even someone like The Big Show should have been moved on by now because that could speed up the process for some of the younger superstars. The best way, in my opinion, is simply putting them on TV with a solid feud. Look at Bo Dallas, his two weeks on Raw were a complete waste. Maybe they changed their mind about his readiness but perhaps letting him on TV for slightly longer would have produced a star. Why can't Big E in the World Title picture rather than ADR. Fandango? Beat Jericho at WM and is now doing very little.

There are small things that are possible for the WWE that could help produce stars that will take some of the pressure/reliance from the top guys and the part-timers, or at least spread it a little more evenly.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

The days in which talents who were big deals or made impacts in some promotions could use their status & history in other promotions to jack up their presence in another company are over. At least, they're over when it comes to anything outside the indy scene. As has been pointed out, there's no more WCW or ECW. WCW was a company that had a genuinely entrenched presence in the consciousness of both hardcore and average pro wrestling fans. It had a history and generations of fans who'd grown up watching built in even before Ted Turner took it over. ECW was the latest thing, a genuine stand out and alternative from the more traditional wrestling than most people knew about. ECW also existed during the era of Crash TV, a period of time in which the more over the top you were, the better.

If you want proof that the days of relying on past glories and star power in other promotions don't mean dick, just look at TNA. Since the mid 2000s, TNA has packed its roster with wrestlers who at one point enjoyed FAR greater exposure than any "TNA Original" ever has. Kurt Angle, Sting, Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair, Eric Bischoff, The Dudley Boys, Kevin Nash, Scott Hall, Scott Steiner, Rick Steiner, Jeff Hardy, Matt Hardy, Rob Van Dam, Tommy Dreamer, Christian, Raven, Booker T and Sean Waltman are all wrestlers who had exposure on a much bigger stage from the 80s all the way through into the 2000s whether is was in WWE, WCW or both at one point. For a very long time, TNA made these established stars the focal point of the company rather than investing time & effort into trying to create its own stars. Despite the established fame of these stars, some of whom have been among the top stars in pro wrestling history, they didn't elevate TNA's audience. Hulk Hogan is pretty much the somebody of somebodies in pro wrestling, the superstar among superstars. He's sort of the epitome of what it's meant to be "over" in pro wrestling. So if his involvement & past glories can't help generate sustained interest & growth in TNA, why should WWE give two shits about what Consequences Creed did in TNA or Chris Hero did in ROH?

 

[Tyrant25]

I think one major problem is that as soon as someone debuts, they're immediately relegated to competing against someone that is either an "enhancement talent" or isn't even a part of the company. Take Ryback for instance, he spent months facing guys like that and it didn't exactly justify his gimmick. There's a huge gap in credibility between someone like Justin Gabriel and someone like CM Punk -- obviously, Ryback was not prepared for the angle that he was put in with Punk. Then take for the instance The Shield, who had just about an equal amount of credibility as Ryback did when he first debuted, but the difference was that The Shield came in and started rummaging through the finest of talents. That's why The Shield is way more popular than Ryback. If WWE expects someone to get over effectively, they need not have them try to prove something against people who aren't credible enough to merit that proof.

I completely agree with your stance on Bray Wyatt, by the way. It was very smart of WWE to put him in a feud with Kane, someone who has a similar gimmick and someone who can actually put over someone else. The problem is that, when Kane left, WWE practically forgot about him. They give him a 2 minute video promo on RAW and that's about it, only sometimes does he get a match. They can't just wait for Kane's return. They need to capitalize on Wyatt's obvious momentum before the audience gets sick of him.

 

[samhunt391]

Basically the young starts need to come straight into the mid card, like what has happened with Curtis Axel and the Wyatt's, just to prove that they can make it as a star in the business.

Now what I see happening in a years time is Curtis slowly being put down into the lower card and the Wyatt's becoming the top stable in the WWE, and I am not saying this because I like them, because I don't, I just think that their psychology is top notch and that will put them over.

 

[enviousdominous]

Pleasing an audience isn't a science. The WWE had our imaginations at one time because the internet wasn't around to destroy the mystique of its product.

When it comes to getting younger guys over, the WWE tends to fail miserably. The reasoning behind why they failed is probably over my head, but in my current state of bliss I assume that I'm aware of why they failed.

Stone Cold picked Andy Leavine to be the winner of Tough Enough, apparently because he felt that the other choice, Luke Robinson, was too cocky. Now, I won't get into all the reasons for why I think that Steve Austin is a (talented) fucking idiot and his fans aren't much better. I'll just say that Steve Austin didn't become anything noteworthy until he insulted the bible and developed his character into a cocky asshole who'd sooner use his shit example of a chin cutter on a ring veteran than pay him the proper respect. Fast forward to 2010, and now he doesn't like people who "think that their shit don't stink". Cute, coming from a guy who inspired eight year olds to flick off anything that moves, I find that to be an odd state of confused priorities. So he picks a fucking ****** sold on the notion of "silent rage", and he kept tough enough's streak alive of picking nobody with actual staying power.

Kurt Angle, olympic hero and sociopathic sex addict, was part of the smashed asshole posse that made up the WWE locker room in 2004. A collection of over-entitled assholes who believed that only through ritual hazing and exercising repressed homosexual urges, they would be able to "break in" new talent so they could be considered worthy of being butt naked in the same vicinity as the smashed asshole posse. An up and comer named Daniel Puder was part of Tough Enough Season 4. This guy was the most legit fighter in the WWE locker room at the time, and of course this reality drove guys like Big Show, Undie and Kurt into a blind rage of hate filled jealousy more often seen as a behavior of sixteen year old girls competing for the title of prom queen. He was a marked man because he didn't willingly let them finger him during practice, an unforgiveable crime unto the code of the smashed asshole posse. Oh and, he nearly snapped Kurt Angle's arm off on tv. The effort was to show all young up and comers that no matter how good you think you are, you're still going to deal with weeks of John Layfield's fingers up your ass before we begin to take you seriously.

Part of my point is that I disagree with most of your suggestions on a general level, but am willing to admit that you're probably infinitely more capable of producing an entertaining origin for a potential star than the WWE. The other part of my point is that direct efforts to produce fresh new stars for our viewing pleasure tend to fall into the fallacy of failing to make something happen because your effort toward its conclusion was too direct and open. It seems like every effort to create a new star as a new star fails miserably because it seems like the decision was made on our behalf by an egomaniacal hack who understands nothing of current trends and because they usually pick talentless dick heads to fill that role.

I'd rant about how I think a direct effort to push a new star should be handled, but then I'd probably start sounding like a four hundred pound sentient afterbirth named Mark Madden.

In my opinion, what makes a star into a star for our hearts is natural likeability before anything else. To go up the card, you have to be able to work with professionals who are willing to run blindly into your signature moves and give a look of fearful shock when you hulk up and feed off the surge of adrenaline invested toward you by the cheering crowd. If the crowd has anything to say about it, you won't move anywhere if your presence doesn't invoke an emotional response from them. If you have someone that the crowd absolutely adores, you can't go wrong if you just use them at all. I've been a die hard Lance Storm fan for his entire career, and I don't feel at all miffed that he hasn't held a major world championship in his career.

 

[Sundar]

The reason why Lesnar and Angle were immediately pushed to be main eventers is that they both had exceptional amateur wrestling backgrounds, Kurt was already over because of his Olympic gold medal win so to have him be a midcarder would have been an insult and he was also very good on the mic. Brock was already NCAA champ and he was an amazing athlete who could do things that no other guy of his size could.

Bray Wyatt's promo's and mic work are excellent but to be honest I don't think he is very good in the ring. Maybe that's why he doesn't get much air time.

 

[Sandpiper64]

Love it when people like envious think the common mark off the street can book and write better than an actual wrestling writer. It makes my day.

 

[Kidpolean]

The # 1 thing you guys have failed to mention is match quality. It is not WWE's job to get you over, a wrestler has to do that himself. The way to get over is to be able to WRESTLE!!!! DB is getting a push because he can wrestler, Punk got a push because he could wrestle, Ziggler can wrestle, The shield can all, except for Ambrose, WRESTLE!!!

You have to either have an awesome look (Triple H), awesome mic skills (John Cena), awesome in the ring (DB).

WWE doesnt create stars the fans do

 

[THTRobtaylor]

The # 1 thing you guys have failed to mention is match quality. It is not WWE's job to get you over, a wrestler has to do that himself. The way to get over is to be able to WRESTLE!!!! DB is getting a push because he can wrestler, Punk got a push because he could wrestle, Ziggler can wrestle, The shield can all, except for Ambrose, WRESTLE!!!

You have to either have an awesome look (Triple H), awesome mic skills (John Cena), awesome in the ring (DB).

WWE doesnt create stars the fans do

Rubbish - someone can have any or all of the above 3 but without the machine behind you you get nowhere - look at guys like Colt Cabana, had he been able to do what he did on the indies, he would without question have been a big star, but they had to change it... Scotty Goldman? Really? Likewise for any number of guys who have come in and simply not gotten the rub from the office or gotten themselves over in a way WWE doesn't like- despite the fans liking them, look at Ryder or more recently Fandango (through the theme)... if what you say was true then they'd be where Cena is...

 

[Redemption-2012]

The key in getting these guys over is charisma. You can have the size, the wrestling background or be as jacked up as you want to be. If you don't have the star quality that say a John Cena has, you won't be going anywhere, anytime fast. Real Stars generally have IT before they even become major stars. The way to get over is be by being good on the mic, cutting an acceptable promo that is above average and being a decent wrestler with a compelling character.

In short, the WWE need to find the right guys to push ALA Bray Wyatt (albeit not great in the ring but awesome mic skills), Ryback who has the size but lacks wrestling skills and Dean Ambrose who seems to truly have the it Factor. As we see with Daniel Bryan, he has everything that a star need to get over as he is, minus the size of course.

 

[SSJPhenom]

It's easy to get younger talent over effectively. Some other posters have already mentioned how.

I think that all that needs to happen is the younger talent should be brought in after several weeks of promos are ran for the new young talent. The first thing that he should do is have a meaningful feud with a an already established star that the fans actually care about and a star that doesn't mind putting over the young talent. Eventually the young talent goes over the established star in a great feud. After the feud is over, keep the young talent's momentum going with either another hot feud or maybe a midcard title.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

The key in getting these guys over is charisma. You can have the size, the wrestling background or be as jacked up as you want to be. If you don't have the star quality that say a John Cena has, you won't be going anywhere, anytime fast. Real Stars generally have IT before they even become major stars. The way to get over is be by being good on the mic, cutting an acceptable promo that is above average and being a decent wrestler with a compelling character.

In short, the WWE need to find the right guys to push ALA Bray Wyatt (albeit not great in the ring but awesome mic skills), Ryback who has the size but lacks wrestling skills and Dean Ambrose who seems to truly have the it Factor. As we see with Daniel Bryan, he has everything that a star need to get over as he is, minus the size of course.

Who says Wyatt isn't great? He has a different style due to his size, not everyone can rag doll like Ziggler or be a technical whizz like Bryan or Punk. Wyatt did not have great mic skills when he started, he just had a chance to experiment, when it clicked time to hone it and even then more time to recover from injury on the strength of what could be discovered.

NXT isn't a bad thing, WWE is doing some of the right things with younger talent but the "treadmill" approach doesn't work in all cases or for established names. They're missing that "buzz" that comes from the fans from "stealing a talent", that came from Jericho when he first debuted, the Radicalz or going further back Ric Flair, Giant Gonzales, Sid Justice or The Steiners... but the thread has been the same all the way along... They'd steal them, hype them or go with the "shock" debut, push them for a bit then bin them off as inferior to WWE grown stars... So when they hire an Indie or TNA guy and send them to NXT in a sense they're cutting out the middle man and breaking them down to nothing before they start...