How Is It Wrong For TNA To "Humanize" It's Talent?

[ABMorales787]

I remember on so many occasions when people would bash and insult TNA because they relied on "foreign" talent to put their company over. But now enter the debuts of Jeff Hardy and Rob Van Dam. The story is now backwards. Now people criticize TNA for "underusing" them. And how they can do so much more. And how they should be the headline's and more importantly, how TNA "can't book them right". Really now? Let's look at facts. Rob Van Dam just recently lost the World Championship and first won it a mere month after debuting. Something not even the great Kurt Angle can lay a claim to here in TNA. As for Jeff Hardy, well we know the deal. He's had a court case that's been dragging on for a year with an absolute lack of interest presented by "the law". Why the case is still around is beyond me. However TNA signed him at a good time with the view that the situation would clear up soon. However that hasn't stopped Jeff Hardy as he's set to headline the company's flagship event.

However there is a thing I've noticed that separate's the debut of these two men from that of Kurt Angle's and Christian Cage's. When Kurt and Christian debuted, TNA rode them to the top and made them look absolutely superior to the rest of the TNA roster. Not the case here. Hardy and RVD have been basically humanized by TNA and have just become a face in the crowd. I ask now. How is that wrong? This places the likes of AJ Styles, Samoa Joe and The Pope on the same exact level as these two guys. "You are not superior, you are equal". That's how they are presented. TNA finally takes some respect for itself and rather than pushing outside talent to the moon they lower them to the standards of it's home grown talent. People actually complain about this. If TNA want's to look like the legit competition of WWE, then why on earth would they make WWE's talent seem superior? They should be TNA's equals, not superiors.

 

[K4P-Unleashed]

[QUOTE="iMPACT! Player" Riaku;2429586]I remember on so many occasions when people would bash and insult TNA because they relied on "foreign" talent to put their company over. But now enter the debuts of Jeff Hardy and Rob Van Dam. The story is now backwards. Now people criticize TNA for "underusing" them. And how they can do so much more. And how they should be the headline's and more importantly, how TNA "can't book them right". Really now? Let's look at facts. Rob Van Dam just recently lost the World Championship and first won it a mere month after debuting. Something not even the great Kurt Angle can lay a claim to here in TNA. As for Jeff Hardy, well we know the deal. He's had a court case that's been dragging on for a year with an absolute lack of interest presented by "the law". Why the case is still around is beyond me. However TNA signed him at a good time with the view that the situation would clear up soon. However that hasn't stopped Jeff Hardy as he's set to headline the company's flagship event.

However there is a thing I've noticed that separate's the debut of these two men from that of Kurt Angle's and Christian Cage's. When Kurt and Christian debuted, TNA rode them to the top and made them look absolutely superior to the rest of the TNA roster. Not the case here. Hardy and RVD have been basically humanized by TNA and have just become a face in the crowd. I ask now. How is that wrong? This places the likes of AJ Styles, Samoa Joe and The Pope on the same exact level as these two guys. "You are not superior, you are equal". That's how they are presented. TNA finally takes some respect for itself and rather than pushing outside talent to the moon they lower them to the standards of it's home grown talent. People actually complain about this. If TNA want's to look like the legit competition of WWE, then why on earth would they make WWE's talent seem superior? They should be TNA's equals, not superiors.[/QUOTE]

You've got a great point here, and I think this aspect is something that TNA has worked to their advantage. Right now, I feel as though guys like RVD and Hardy are both TNA Wrestlers - not former WWE Wrestlers. Everyone knows that they are, but TNA does a good job in establishing that they are under contract with US now and that means that they have to compete with everyone else.

The argument can be made that Angle, Anderson, and Hardy are all being pushed to the main event right now and since they are all former WWE employees, TNA really doesn't put them on an equal playing field. But if you took a second to think about it logically, if you had Mr. Anderson, Kurt Angle, and Jeff Hardy on your roster, who else would you want to main event your biggest event?

But back on topic, yes, TNA does humanize it's talent and I don't know who thinks it's a bad thing. WWE does it. Look at R-Truth and Christian. Both of them are being heavily humanized by WWE, so why do people hold it against TNA for trying to level the playing field within their own company? Isn't it what you would do if you owned a company?

 

[johnbragg]

Hardy and RVD have been basically humanized by TNA and have just become a face in the crowd. I ask now. How is that wrong? This places the likes of AJ Styles, Samoa Joe and The Pope on the same exact level as these two guys.

I sympathize with what you're saying. The problem is, it has come about by bringing the free agents down, not by raising the TNA talent up. Rob Van Dam had been out of the spotlight for three years, so he legitimately should be just a guy in the mix with Styles, Joe, Anderson, Angle and Pope. He should be a guy getting title shots, or losing No. 1 contender matches.

Jeff Hardy, on the other hand, is a little different situation. He came in to TNA less than six months off of being one of the top 2-3 hottest stars in wrestling. His emo-goth schtick, giving pubescent girls difficult-to-understand feelings, sold T-shirts, tickets and PPV like mad in WWE. TNA hasn't really focused on him, and so that has all washed down the drain.

Of course, we all know why TNA has kept him on the back burner--his legal troubles. And if TNA was running Jeff Hardy segments every week, many of us would be bitching about that, and gleefully anticipating his and TNA's crashing fall when the court dates finally come. But they might be doing it with, say, 1.5 ratings, with much bigger PPV buyrates, and in a big arena once in a while.

When Kurt and Christian debuted, TNA rode them to the top and made them look absolutely superior to the rest of the TNA roster.

I agree. TNA did a great job hyping up Angle vs Joe the first time. But (I thought, and still think) they should have had Joe win. Joe needed that win to be Olympic Gold Medalist/ 6 time World Champion Kurt Freakin Angle's equal. Joe eventually went over Angle, but it was too late. Angle had beaten the biggest badass in TNA, and Joe was just another guy who had some awesome matches with Kurt Angle.

PArt of the problem is that TNA has so much going on all the time that they have problems focusing--or problems getting the fans to focus. You've got Fourtune vs EV2, you've got Abyss and They, you've got Jarrett vs Nash and STing for some reason, you've got the Beautiful People, you've got Angle vs the Top 10, you've got Beer Money vs MCMG. I think that TNA would have more success actually if they narrowed their focus. Bischoff and ReAction might have the right idea here--slow down, focus on reasons that X is important.

I'm not saying this is easy--it isn't. WWE fucks it up all the time too. But they have a bigger cushion, and it's easier to dismiss critics with "Yeah, well they're making money, so shut up."

 

[boywithatoy]

[QUOTE="iMPACT! Player" Riaku;2429586]When Kurt and Christian debuted, TNA rode them to the top and made them look absolutely superior to the rest of the TNA roster. Not the case here. Hardy and RVD have been basically humanized by TNA and have just become a face in the crowd. [/QUOTE]

Have we been watching the same TNA? By "humanized" I assume you mean that RVD hasn't been built up as an all conquering, Cena-esque superman and that he loses matches? I'm sorry but can you name just one time in TNA that RVD has been pinned? He won the title after only being there for a month - and he did so after having 2 matches in one night (beating a fresh AJ Styles for the title) and only days after he had 2 matches on ppv. Since then he has got the pinfall in EVERY match he has been in. It doesn't matter if it's a singles match, a tag, triple threat or fatal four way - RVD has always got the pin. Also, everyone in TNA, from Hogan downwards, have been praising him and saying he's "Mr Tna" and all that. And finally, the only way anyone could get the title off him was to attack him with a board covered in nails which meant he needed 120 million stitches.

Please explain to me how the above booking is "humanizing" him? To me, he is being booked more like superman than Cena (i also think this is intentional from TNA so he gets heat from "real" wrestling fans so it sets up a heel turn).

 

[johnbragg]

What TNA should have done with Jeff Hardy? Pretty much what WWE did with him after Punk's heel turn.

If you're signing him, you're taking the chance on his legal troubles. So go with it. Build Jeff Hardy up to a shot at Styles' world title, say in an Ultimate X match.

"Can Jeff Hardy once again spread his wings and claim TNA Wrestling's greatest prize? Or, will his demons consume him as he crashes and burns?"

The buildup should include a ladder match, maybe against Kazarian or Daniels--someone associated with Styles, a legitimate stepping stone for Jeff HArdy to "send a message" of what he would do to Styles. (Also giving TNA some Jeff HArdy-off-a-ladder footage.)

Styles and Flair would be able to follow CM Punks' script as the heels in this drama, cruelly taunting the recovering drug addict and his legions of fans.

That's what you sign Jeff Hardy to do. Styles wins that match, it elevates and showcases Styles.

 

[Reddannihilation]

Because saying positive things about TNA is evil, that's why. For years there's been endless bitching about TNA pushing ex-WWE wrestlers ahead of their "homegrown" stars. They do the opposite, having their original talent go over the imports and now it's "oh they're not using them properly". It's quite simple, douchebags love double standards, they ask for TNA to bring back the monster Abyss, TNA does it and now it's "Oh I can't believe him as a monster anymore", they ask for more TNA originals getting titles, they get it and now it's "oh that faction sux!!!", average wrestling fan on this forum=idiot. You can't please them at all, when the MEM was running it was constantly slammed, now it's "why can't we have the MEM back, TNA was good back then". Whiny bitch fans, being whiny bitches. TNA has done a good job of humanizing the imports, but don't say that around the Apocalypse-Nowish fans, because they'll call you a fanboy, oh yes they will.

 

[bringitback]

In honesty, I think one of the biggest problems TNA has is they really struggle to make their talent come across on television as stars.

First of all, the crowd at the Impact Zone genuinely seem to be of the impression that they are equals with the wrestlers, and also seem to think that they belong there more than the talent that crossed over do. That really screams through on TV, and as far as I'm concerned, the TNA fan-friendly atmosphere has a lot to do with the wrestlers not having that big star feel.

Granted, TNA can't afford the mammoth production that WWE offers, but it's really not like they have done themselves many favours by allowing free entry to the impact zone and giving the place an "access all areas" feel. Fans of TNA from the beginning have been encouraged to believe that the company sees them as the most important thing, which to certain extents, is fine...but in this case, it really has gone too far.

Remember when AJ first started coming out with Flair? They ahd himwalk to ringside with girls on each arm....The crowd started shouting "You are married"...imagine if that sort of thing had happened as The Godfather came out with his Hoes back in the day, or even when Flair himself had that same "limosine riding" gimmick in WWE when Evolution was going. It just wouldn't have happened. But for some reason, that seems to be okay to happen on TNA, because kayfabe is horrible and the wrestlers need to be humanized.

TNA need to build stars! Not guys you'd like to have a beer with.

It's not so much that they "humanize" the talent, or even that they don't push them in the right way, it's that they don't show them in their very best light, or in any character really specific to them, other than Abyss and one or two other complete Gimmicked up members of the roster.

Jeff Hardy is a perfect example, with WWE, a marketing dream, a genuine, bonified star, WAS a draw, WAS a money maker... because WWE knew how to go about it and are experts at promoting and exhibiting their talent in such a way that they have that "star" feel. Same goes for RVD.

Yeah, TNA creative isn't great, but I'm not here to get into THAT argument....for me, the main reason TNA seems to lack that "star feel" is the still-to-improve production and also, it might help if they treated Kayfabe as not being such an awful thing!

 

[shattered dreams]

Well, AJ Styles pinned RVD for the win in a three way match with Jeff Hardy. Wolfe pinned Hardy. But I guess these do not count for some reason. RVD was winning almost always but most of his matches were booked quite competitively. It is not like he was squashing people. Face champions win matches. That is kind of how it goes. Just another example of people fixating on the result and not the story in between. The result is fixed and often pointless, the story is why we watch. Those guys have been booked strong but they are not clearly better than everyone else which is what Riaku is correctly pointing out.

 

[Rampage Bentley]

Well, AJ Styles pinned RVD for the win in a three way match with Jeff Hardy. Wolfe pinned Hardy. But I guess these do not count for some reason. RVD was winning almost always but most of his matches were booked quite competitively. It is not like he was squashing people. Face champions win matches. That is kind of how it goes. Just another example of people fixating on the result and not the story in between. The result is fixed and often pointless, the story is why we watch. Those guys have been booked strong but they are not clearly better than everyone else which is what Riaku is correctly pointing out.

You honestly don't believe RVD and Hardy are booked to look better than everybody else? Then why didn't RVD just drop the title to Abyss before he got "injured?" Can you name anyone other than Angle booked to look nearly as strong as RVD or Hardy? You named two instances where RVD and Hardy lost, but neither one of those was within the past six months, and even so neither was a clean loss

 

[ABMorales787]

Have we been watching the same TNA? By "humanized" I assume you mean that RVD hasn't been built up as an all conquering, Cena-esque superman and that he loses matches? I'm sorry but can you name just one time in TNA that RVD has been pinned? He won the title after only being there for a month - and he did so after having 2 matches in one night (beating a fresh AJ Styles for the title) and only days after he had 2 matches on ppv. Since then he has got the pinfall in EVERY match he has been in. It doesn't matter if it's a singles match, a tag, triple threat or fatal four way - RVD has always got the pin. Also, everyone in TNA, from Hogan downwards, have been praising him and saying he's "Mr Tna" and all that. And finally, the only way anyone could get the title off him was to attack him with a board covered in nails which meant he needed 120 million stitches.

Yeah, there's a difference between winning and being booked as better than the rest of the roster. He was always in a situation where he could believably lose. That's very different from Kurt Angle's case in 2006-2007 where he was the biggest thing ever. When Samoa Joe beat Kurt it wasn't "Samoa Joe got the win!", it was "I can't believe Samoa Joe did it!".

Please explain to me how the above booking is "humanizing" him? To me, he is being booked more like superman than Cena (i also think this is intentional from TNA so he gets heat from "real" wrestling fans so it sets up a heel turn).

He lost when a beer bottle was smashed over his head. Pretty human. His performance was booked as ordinary (a bit too ordinary) as opposed to the "can he come back from all of this abuse?" style you're referring to. And last I checked, in no occasion was he overwhelmed by 3 men and then just suddenly beat them all.

In honesty, I think one of the biggest problems TNA has is they really struggle to make their talent come across on television as stars.

First of all, the crowd at the Impact Zone genuinely seem to be of the impression that they are equals with the wrestlers, and also seem to think that they belong there more than the talent that crossed over do. That really screams through on TV, and as far as I'm concerned, the TNA fan-friendly atmosphere has a lot to do with the wrestlers not having that big star feel.

I agree to an extent. TNA doesn't exactly allow the fans to just mingle with the roster however.

Granted, TNA can't afford the mammoth production that WWE offers, but it's really not like they have done themselves many favours by allowing free entry to the impact zone and giving the place an "access all areas" feel. Fans of TNA from the beginning have been encouraged to believe that the company sees them as the most important thing, which to certain extents, is fine...but in this case, it really has gone too far.

It's a prize to pay in order to have a location. Remember, they had this deal since before Spike TV picked them up. I'm pretty sure they were unaware of how big they would be 5 years ahead.

Remember when AJ first started coming out with Flair? They ahd himwalk to ringside with girls on each arm....The crowd started shouting "You are married"...imagine if that sort of thing had happened as The Godfather came out with his Hoes back in the day, or even when Flair himself had that same "limosine riding" gimmick in WWE when Evolution was going. It just wouldn't have happened. But for some reason, that seems to be okay to happen on TNA, because kayfabe is horrible and the wrestlers need to be humanized.

Not really what I meant when I used the word "humanized". I was referring to how former WWE talent was blending with the TNA roster.

TNA need to build stars! Not guys you'd like to have a beer with.

I get it, but you're missing the point here.

It's not so much that they "humanize" the talent, or even that they don't push them in the right way, it's that they don't show them in their very best light, or in any character really specific to them, other than Abyss and one or two other complete Gimmicked up members of the roster.

Jeff Hardy is a perfect example, with WWE, a marketing dream, a genuine, bonified star, WAS a draw, WAS a money maker... because WWE knew how to go about it and are experts at promoting and exhibiting their talent in such a way that they have that "star" feel. Same goes for RVD.

That's because in WWE, they were unique. WWE doesn't feature too many guys of the style of RVD and Jeff. TNA, however was pretty much built on it. Bringing them in and placing them on top would just present the other talent as smaller and inferior. A big no-no if you want a well balanced roster.

Yeah, TNA creative isn't great, but I'm not here to get into THAT argument....for me, the main reason TNA seems to lack that "star feel" is the still-to-improve production and also, it might help if they treated Kayfabe as not being such an awful thing!

It grows in due time.

You honestly don't believe RVD and Hardy are booked to look better than everybody else? Then why didn't RVD just drop the title to Abyss before he got "injured?" Can you name anyone other than Angle booked to look nearly as strong as RVD or Hardy? You named two instances where RVD and Hardy lost, but neither one of those was within the past six months, and even so neither was a clean loss

RVD wasn't supposed to drop the title, but they changed plans to a different angle and to write RVD off for some time to save dates in his contract. It was just coincidence. And besides, who's to say he won't lose down the road?

 

[Hawkeye]

I like to think of TNA as feudal Japan. They are a small island in the grand scheme of things,however it's inhabitants are steeped in pride and courage. Every now and then foreigners came over and introduce new concepts, such as firearms or different clothes or even trains. Most of the islanders appreciated the diversity,while there were a select few who refused to deviate from their normal lives. Eventually the island was swallowed whole by the foreigners,but those select few in defiance of the status quo were successful in maintaining some of their own culture. Now jump to 2010. If you think of the TNA fans as feudal japanese people,and homegrown TNA superstars as katanas and kimonos, and foreign talent as guns and suits, then you've got a perfect analogy. TNA superstars are the standard,the staple for TNA fans. But when you get a popular foreign wrestler in the mix,most fans eyes will light up at the concept,while others will be hard to bring around. As a foreigner(WWE fan) myself I think foreign superstars should be given less spotlight than the homegrown talent because eventually,you lose that sense of pride in your favorite superstars and you'll no longer be able to say 'that's our guy' because originally he belonged to someone else. So if you get foreign talent all over the spotlight then you lose your entire culture and way of life to something new that everyone didn't want in the first place

 

[harrythem]

Making someone like Jeff Hardy "just another face in the crowd" is wrong on so many levels. Yeah RVD I get, he's been away for a few years and doesn't warrant the big push he ended up getting.

Hardy is different though, he came into TNA as one of the hottest stars in the world. I get wanting to integrate him as part of the product but, it's insane that they took him and, thanks to a Homicide botch, he was just another part of the roster within minutes of his return to TNA. I know his legal issues stop them pushing him to the moon but, come on, surely it shouldn't have taken 10 months for TNA to move him towards the main event scene. It's not like he's being beaten by all the TNA regulars, that I could understand, it's the shoddy booking of him that has taken away his steam.

It's good that TNA is now making new signings part of the family instead of outsiders but, in certain cases, it should still stand, at least when it comes to the top tier talent (Hardy, RVD is no-where near that level)

 

[excel_excel]

No RVD hasn't been 'underused'. In fact he's been pushed to the top way too fast. They should have slowly built to his first title win and saved it for PPV. But instead they give it away on impact, and make AJ look weak by losing to a guy who'd already been in a match that night.

As for Hardy....well despite that he now feels like 'just another guy' in TNA I can understand why they aren't pushing him to the top because of his legal problems. But that begs the question, why even use him? I mean he's been stripped of his main event aura and one of the biggest matches on paper facing Angle wasn't even given the proper attention or focus, and wasn't even the main event of the PPV.