Has Hogan Hurt Pro Wrestling More Than He Helped It?

[RIPbossman]

How much has Hulk Hogan hurt pro wrestling as opposed to helping it?

In my opinion, he did a lot of wrong through backstage politics. Some prime examples are refusing to put Bret over in 93 and symbolicly passing the torch to him, and refusing to put Sting over clean at Starrcade 97. Its even rumored he paid Nick Patrick to screw up the fast count on purpose. He also ratted out Jesse Ventura for trying to organize a union.


But still, he was at the helm when 2 wrestling booms started. The popularity and mainstream attention he brought wrestling can't be denied. He put WWF on the map as a national force, and made WCW legitimate competition. All in all, Hogan helped wrestling more than he hurt it.

 

[Makaveli31]

Basically, we'd still be in the "territory days" if Hogan and Vince had not taken the WWF national in 1985. Hogan was the driving force on front of the camera with his charisma while Vince (and Pat) was the ultimate puppet master behind the scenes carefully crafting Hogan's legendary run from 1984-1988. I don't how this is even a question? All that backstage stuff was politics as usual but it can't compare to what Hogan did for wrestling in the 1980s

 

[THTRobtaylor]

Ironic that since Hogan's last scandal the business is seemingly headed right back to a territorial based system, just with WWE rather than the NWA being the umbrella...

The sheer number of companies WWE is basically working with at this point is becoming increasingly like the old system. Add that they now have a WWE UK title which will likely be defended on shows that aren't theirs and you can see that the business is coming full circle.

Hogan HAS damaged the business about as much as he did for it and possibly even more in ways. The roid scandal caused nothing but problems for the WWE but Hogan "escaped" blame because of the NWO and Monday Night Wars. Reality was that until Nash and Hall showed up, the business itself was in bad shape - mainly due to Hogan's politics (especially Mania 9) and the damage caused by his roid admissions... but hey, he had Thunder in Paradise brother....

By the time WCW was on top it was quickly on the way down because again, Hogan couldn't do "best for business" only "Hogan Knows Best". He's as much to blame for WCW going down as ATM Eric and Vince Russo. That damaged the business FOREVER!

He got another chance in WWE, but again had to play the same old games. The match with HBK being far worse than the finger poke of doom... THEN he put TNA in the toilet... and STILL managed to blow another chance...

Hogan HAS drawn big money and awareness, that can never be taken away but he has also nearly put the WWE and TNA into bankruptcy by his decisons and way of "doing business" and he succeeded with WCW.

It's easy to say WWE or the business wouldn't have made it without him, but it's also as easy to argue that the business is alive IN SPITE of him...

 

[relentless1]

Ha! Hogan has done infinitely more good than harm to wrestling, he was the face that originally put it on the map in an international sense, he also ushered in the second golden age by turning heel. None of his scandals or backstage politics have affected anything other than a storyline, he's never affected a company itself in a negative way; unless you believe that it was Hulk Hogan who sunk WCW and not Time Warner itself...

 

[The Perfect Max]

For all that Hogan has done wrong, and he's done some bad damn stuff, you cannot deny what he did for the business in the 1980s. Simply put; if Hogan hadn't been there to help put the WWF and the world of professional wrestling on the map, he wouldn't have anything to hurt in the first place. That alone speaks volume. The business continues to thrive past his prime because that's how it's always worked since. Wrestling has survived the worst kind of media attention and it's still here. Hogan is just a small piece of that.

 

[Makaveli31]

Hogan HAS damaged the business about as much as he did for it and possibly even more in ways. The roid scandal caused nothing but problems for the WWE but Hogan "escaped" blame because of the NWO and Monday Night Wars. Reality was that until Nash and Hall showed up, the business itself was in bad shape - mainly due to Hogan's politics (especially Mania 9) and the damage caused by his roid admissions... but hey, he had Thunder in Paradise brother....

I don't think you can blame the steroid "scandal" on Hulk Hogan. The fact of the matter is steroids were legal in the US until 1988 when a Canadian sprinter named Ben Johnson started blowing past the roided-up American sprinters and all if a sudden it's a problem. Hulk did go on Arsenio and bold-faced lied to the American public though. It damaged him for a little bit but not much. When Vince McMahon was going to trial for steroid distribution Hogan was long gone causing a rift in the relationship. I don't think that scandal or the ring boy scandal involving Pat Patterson caused any long term damage to the company.

Reality was that until Nash and Hall showed up, the business itself was in bad shape - mainly due to Hogan's politics (especially Mania 9) and the damage caused by his roid admissions... but hey, he had Thunder in Paradise brother....

What reality are you talking about? The business was in bad shape. The WWF was rocked by both the sexual assault and steroid scandals but let's be honest unless you were reading the newspaper you didn't know about that stuff. Even if you did it didn't stop you from watching. The business was down because there was a transition. The "glory days of Hulkamania" was over. Hogan was on his way out, Warrior was gone, Savage had been moved to an announcer's position. Yes, the thing with Bret at 'Mania 9 was a head scratcher but Hogan maintains it was a way to get two main event PPV out his return. Whether or not it "damaged this business" is up for debate. It certainly made Yoko as the guy who "ended" Hulkamania.

By the time WCW was on top it was quickly on the way down because again, Hogan couldn't do "best for business" only "Hogan Knows Best". He's as much to blame for WCW going down as ATM Eric and Vince Russo. That damaged the business FOREVER!

How was Hogan to blame for WCW? He put over Luger in '97 when Luger was hot. He put over Goldberg in a classic in '98. You can say he didn't want to put Nash over but Hogan knew it would be a shit match between Nash and himself. Bret thinks Hogan sabotaged him in WCW but Hogan and Bret didn't have any matches in WCW. What killed WCW was the poor booking. First by Nash in 1999 which was not SO BAD but paled compared to what WWF was putting out then when Russo came in it went to shit. SO what does Hogan have to do with that?

 

[Makaveli31]

He got another chance in WWE, but again had to play the same old games. The match with HBK being far worse than the finger poke of doom... THEN he put TNA in the toilet... and STILL managed to blow another chance...

So you have two of the biggest prima donnas in wrestling history where one is supposed to go over the other and you expect there WON'T be any shenanigans? LOL We got the match in the ring who cares?!? Shawn was the one who that match shit not Hulk but it was still entertaining. It was not a classic but it was fun to see two icons of wrestling in the same ring together. So your argument would assume TNA was NOT already in toilet BEFORE Hogan took over.

Hogan HAS drawn big money and awareness, that can never be taken away but he has also nearly put the WWE and TNA into bankruptcy by his decisons and way of "doing business" and he succeeded with WCW.

It's easy to say WWE or the business wouldn't have made it without him, but it's also as easy to argue that the business is alive IN SPITE of him...
__________________

Name someone who could make TNA profitable? I don't think that company has ever had a year in the black. Can't blame Hogan for that. And as far as putting the WWE into bankruptcy when was that?!? By using steroids in the '1980's or by jumping ship in 1994? Either way it was Vince's responsibility.

So I do not see your point when you say the business succeeded IN SPITE of Hulk.

1) When Hulk went to the WWF BOOM
2) When Hulk went to WCW BOOM

Both companies did their best business ever and each move ushered in a "golden era"

 

[Goldie]

Hogan has done more good than bad.
Yes he has his faults, and the IWC don't always appreciate him.... but he is the guy (with Vinces direction) that helped globalise wrestling, and make several of the stars household names. He built the platform for todays stars.

Whilst Vince was going to try and do this anyway- he specifically hand picked Hogan to build the WWE around... because even in the AWA, Hogan was already on his way to becoming wrestlings most charismatic babyface.
Would Vince have succeeded without Hogan? probably.... but Hogan was the best man for the job at the time... and he did just that... took wrestling to a whole new level.
As well as America.... the WWE stars became household names across Europe, Asia... around the world!.... and those first wrestlemanias and the early PPV market were literally built around Hogan.

Even to this day... you ask any average Joe on the street to name a wrestler.... more people will say Hulk Hogan than anyone else (note that the Rock is now better known as an actor than a wrestler).

A lot of the bad press or wrong doings were when Hogan was way past his prime/retired.

 

[WorstWrestlingExcrement]

hogan has done more bad and worse for the business than good and better. Hogan was a selfish egomaniac who had to have it his way or the high way! He always wanted to put one person over all the time and that was himself. He never wanted to pass the torch and put other wrestlers over. Many wrestlers have hate stories about how they felt Hogan damaged their careers and used his position to stop them from getting a chance at becoming a bigger star. Hogan definitely knew how to play the game by refusing to do jobs, picking his opponents and spotlighting himself in a way that always looked strong. He didn't want to lose to Jeff Jarrett ,Kidman, Orton , STING and NASH and then those matches did occur it has to be confused complicated finishes. Hogan always wanted to main event as the top guy good or bad champion or not against SID in WM8. He was so selfish it took him a decade to beat the Ultimate Warrior in WCW just to satisfy the overgrown baby Hogan and exact his selfish revenge.

He buried Billy Kidman in WCW and said Kidman couldn't draw fleas in a fleamarket.
He refused to put Randy Savage over in WCW . Along the way he refused to lose to Randy Orton, Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels
Hogan likes to steal the spotlight from other main wrestlers and shift to himself and let snot forget how he ruined TNA by changing the six sided ring to 4 sided ring and burying Bobby Roode and not allowing him to win the title over Kurt Angle cause hogan said Roode was not ready? WTF? Hogan and Eric Bischoff acted like saviors that would save TNA from obscurity and take them to the promise land. Their run as the men in charge of the television show was a complete disaster and helped turn TNA into a big money loser

Yet he was in control in TNA just as he was in WCW putting himself and inserting himself in spotlights which was unnecessary like Bound for Glory match against STING? he has so much control he bought in his airhead daughter Brooke to TNA and ruined things even worse for the KO's! hogan is useless and worthless in the pro wrestling business he only thinks of him, himself and he in the spotlight and egomaniac!

 

[Makaveli31]

He buried Billy Kidman in WCW and said Kidman couldn't draw fleas in a fleamarket.

Let's see...started Hulkamania, took the WWF national, main evented the first eight WrestleMania's .....but damnit!! He Buried Billy Kidman!!! Is this Billy Kidman?!?!?

 

[relentless1]

He buried Billy Kidman in WCW and said Kidman couldn't draw fleas in a fleamarket.
He refused to put Randy Savage over in WCW . Along the way he refused to lose to Randy Orton, Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels
!

LOL, that flea market comment was a work for their feud you mark...

Orton, HBK and Bret... Vince is the guy who makes those decisions, take it up with him if you don't like how they were booked with Hogan.

 

[sikkbones]

If I can be serious for a moment, has billy Kidman ever been a draw?

I mean would he gave been a star player in a bingo hall?

He's not original ECW material.

Hogan deserves his due for what he did for wwe and esp. For elevating the rock to godhood... And the glory days of the nwo

But there's also two giant yellow and red dumpster firesbof what was left of wcw and what is left of TNA

 

[FromGlasgow]

Hogan HAS damaged the business about as much as he did for it and possibly even more in ways. he has also nearly put the WWE and TNA into bankruptcy by his decisons and way of "doing business" and he succeeded with WCW.

A lot of times I try my best to see other peoples side of the argument but this time I feel like wtf? For starters when exactly did he nearly bankrupt the WWE? That one completely confuses me? Also he never even wrestled in TNA except maybe one match and he was only there for a couple of years how is their entire situation there in at the moment all Hogan's fault? What did you expect from Hogan in TNA the guy was in his 60's and walking around like a cripple was he supposed to carry the whole show? The TNA ratings never declined when Hogan joined.
Also single handedly ruined all of WCW? Doesn't matter that the ratings shot up at the point of beating the WWE so many weeks in a row for the first time whilst Hollywood Hogan was their champion Bankrupting or almost bankrupting 3 worldwide mainstream companies is extremely impresive why not just blame him for the AWA and ECW too? or if you cannot get a girlfriend or a job that can also be Hogan's fault?
For arguments sake even if Hogan was so bad and never drew any money his entire career wouldn't that be managements fault for continually pushing him and paying him so many millions per year, If Vince wanted to pay me a few million per year to be the WWE champion I wouldn't say no.
I agree theres a couple of things I haven't liked when I heard them like refusing to drop the title to Bret and Sting etc but the mainstream attention he brought during the 80's and 90's alone more than made up for the few negatives, Wrestlers don't exactly have the reputation of a saint you could find negatives about most big names if you tried.

 

[The Brain]

How much has Hulk Hogan hurt pro wrestling as opposed to helping it?

He also ratted out Jesse Ventura for trying to organize a union.

You list ratting Ventura out as something that hurt the business but that should be one of your stronger arguments for something that helped the business. If the wrestlers had a union the business probably would have died decades ago.

Of course Hogan did more to help the business than hurt it. In fact I don't know how he really hurt it at all. Steroids? Yeah I think 90% of the wrestlers were on steroids in the 80s. Ego? So the biggest star in the history of the business has an ego. So what? He made a hugely successful brand and knew how to protect it. Honestly, I think guys that criticize Hulk simply do so because they prefer shooting star presses to big boots and leg drops. To each his own but Hogan's contributions to the wrestling business are undeniable.

 

[Vanilla Midget]

The question points out its own inherent flaws. Hogan has both been a boon and a bust to the business. Even if we were to debate and decide which side of the bench is more correct, he still at the end of the day will have been the business' biggest draw and a massive cancer within it.

There's no arguing against his drawing power. Wrestling has been in a steady decline from the mainstream since 2001 when WCW folded. Hogan's politics, his creative control, and his eventual departure are all factors that figured (amongst many, many others) into the demise of WWE's last true competitor.

Hogan is a dick for not putting people over. Who's career was really destroyed by that? Who would have been a major draw that would have outshone Hogan that he squashed? I'm not trying to defend him, but really: who are the people that were buried?

Hogan refused to pass the torch to Bret. Hart is multi-time world champion and a hall of famer after that. Hogan didn't want to lose to Sting at Starrcade 97. That was a huge mistake, but WCW stayed in the power position for two more years after the fact and Sting wasn't hurt by the booking at all.

Even at the end of his career, the one of matches with Michaels and Orton, was any damage done by his selfish creative control? I don't think Randy Orton would be any bigger of a star now than he would be with a win over Hogan under his belt. There would be one more clip for the hall of fame speech in the future, but he'd still be Randy Orton. He has as much or as little star power in himself as he would with a win over Hogan.

That's what I'm getting at. Wrestlers have as much or as little mainstream crossover potential as God or science (or whatever you believe in) gave them. Macho Man was still Macho Man and much beloved with or without Hogan. Ditto for anyone who came after.

Hogan had the charisma to capture the hearts and minds of casual fans by the millions. I'd say the only context in which you could say Hogan was bad for wrestling was in the case of TNA. He really threw them for a loop.

Maybe if Hogan had some kind of fountain of youth and wrestled the whole time, sure he might have been able to make TNA successful. Instead they just got the business end of Hogan's bad side.

I feel like I might be coming off as a Hogan mark or apologist. The things he did to people in the name of his ego aren't easily forgivable. He caused a lot of grief for people. I'd like to hear about any careers that he truly killed, but I don't think there are any noteworthy ones.

Unlike say a John Cena or Triple H, Hogan oversaw massive drawing growth periods for the company and hindered people who got over anyway. Triple H was an also-ran in the Attitude Era who squashed a few guys that could have been big draws (RVD, Booker T, Kane). Cena is the biggest name in WWE since the Attitude Era, and while building his own name in the mainstream, he's stopped angles and talent that could have increased business for WWE (ie The Nexus).

Nowadays Triple H is doing things like NXT, signing tons of indy talent, the cruiserweight classic, and the UK title/tournament. Hogan kind of had the reverse career where he was building up the product before he started tearing down the people within it.

The point is that there's no black or white here (racist Hogan joke not intended) Hogan did a lot of bad for wrestling. He did a lot of good for wrestling. It's impossible to quantify that good or bad (apply measurable figures) so we're always going to have this shades of grey conversation around him. He's not dead yet, maybe he'll return to WWE and somehow apply that new wrestling renaissance that we've been waiting for since 2002. Probably not though, he'll just put himself over, and Susan G Komen.

 

[FlairFan2003]

You list ratting Ventura out as something that hurt the business but that should be one of your stronger arguments for something that helped the business. If the wrestlers had a union the business probably would have died years ago.

Yeah, health care, retirements, better and more transpatent pay and disbursement of royalties, that certainly would have destroyed WWE and it's multi BILLION DOLLAR business, while making wrestlers lives so much worse!!!

 

[relentless1]

Yeah, health care, retirements, better and more transpatent pay and disbursement of royalties, that certainly would have destroyed WWE and it's multi BILLION DOLLAR business, while making wrestlers lives so much worse!!!

WWE wasnt nearly as profitable then as it is now so yes, unionizing might have put undue financial strain on the relatively small privately owned family company; enough to cripple it.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

A lot of times I try my best to see other peoples side of the argument but this time I feel like wtf? For starters when exactly did he nearly bankrupt the WWE? That one completely confuses me? Also he never even wrestled in TNA except maybe one match and he was only there for a couple of years how is their entire situation there in at the moment all Hogan's fault? What did you expect from Hogan in TNA the guy was in his 60's and walking around like a cripple was he supposed to carry the whole show? The TNA ratings never declined when Hogan joined.
Also single handedly ruined all of WCW? Doesn't matter that the ratings shot up at the point of beating the WWE so many weeks in a row for the first time whilst Hollywood Hogan was their champion Bankrupting or almost bankrupting 3 worldwide mainstream companies is extremely impresive why not just blame him for the AWA and ECW too? or if you cannot get a girlfriend or a job that can also be Hogan's fault?
For arguments sake even if Hogan was so bad and never drew any money his entire career wouldn't that be managements fault for continually pushing him and paying him so many millions per year, If Vince wanted to pay me a few million per year to be the WWE champion I wouldn't say no.
I agree theres a couple of things I haven't liked when I heard them like refusing to drop the title to Bret and Sting etc but the mainstream attention he brought during the 80's and 90's alone more than made up for the few negatives, Wrestlers don't exactly have the reputation of a saint you could find negatives about most big names if you tried.

Hogan's decisions cost WWE talent repeatedly... for those who say that "he never refused to work with Rude... I found the video..." that was one case where Hulk's way of doing things had a knock on effect.

He testified against Vince McMahon in the roid trial and that alone nearly saw Vince in bankruptcy. Even had he been convicted then there might have been hope, if Hogan hadn't put his head over the parapet first... As it turns out Vince's acquittal was more luck than judgement and Hogan's desire to be "more than WWF" and Hollywood material was the start of all those problems. If Hogan had been more of a company guy in 89-91, then there would have been more talents to work with, better feuds to keep the business hot and more time to find the true successor. But Hogan had to have movie success "NOW" and thus forced Vince into a succession of bad booking decisions.

TNA - If Vince Russo was a talentless moron who sank WCW then Hogan did the same in TNA... no ideas that were good, taking out more money than he was making for the company and with Bischoff in tow he had an air of credibility... it's almost like the "fake news" outlets today... they can tell you "alternative facts", like Hogan was the saviour of TNA.

WCW - Hulk killed WCW by taking the creative control route and encouraging others to have that in their deals. Once Savage had it, and Nash and Hall had it, then like the Safe Harbour clauses that meant no one could be paid more... Creative control became the measure for deals... if you didn't have it you weren't worth anything and Hogan used it to the detriment of the company more than anyone. Whatever your view of how Russo behaved in 2000... the grain of truth was there...

Hogan had played that card repeatedly over the years and now was being albeit unprofessionally called on it. Hulk does business as asked, that never happens... but Hulk never "HAD" to do business and that was the biggest damage he made to the business as a whole.

He set the tone so that "if you're big enough, you call your own shots". For all the money and exposure he brought in... that shift from talent being told their spots to being able to call, edit or even refuse them is the biggest single cancer in Wrestling... whether it's Hogan, Rock, Cena, Trips or Brock Lesnar, it is the shits and ruined wrestling...

Hogan was "cute" with it though, he would throw the odd bone out to seem like a good guy..."But but I jobbed to Rougeau in Quebec or I lost to Goldberg..."

That's before he "came back" and then got canned for racism... damaging it again.