Good Gimmick: Bad Wrestler

[UltimateHitman]

Well sorry to inform you of this "UltimateHitman", but if you are going to post an opinion on a forum and expect people to respond to you, you better damn well have an argument to back it up...Never said he wasn't entitled to his opinion, but I'd like to see him or support his or her opinion and if you're going to bring up something in the non-spam section you better be prepared to defend your point. If you can't recognize that then you have no business doing the OP's talking for him or her, he can back his or her own point up if he chooses too, he or she doesn't need you do it for him or her.

Yeah, ok. Long winded much? Good grief, Josey, your ego gets bent out of shape pretty easily. And yeah, you pretty much did say he wasn't entitled to his opinion by saying it wasn't even an opinion and was stupid. Difference of opinion, fine, but you're just an egotistical little jerk. Simple as that. And same way you pointed out things about his post, I mentioned things about yours. Hypocritical, much? You can do it but I can't? I know you are but what am I? Cute.

By the way have you ever heard of the return/enter key, you could benefit from using it sometime. I might rant quite a bit myself but I'm aware of keeping my paragraphs as unattached as possible. But just the same I'll try to make sense of your rhetoric anyway. You are right there is no sense in faulting someone for not seeing any of Hogan's pre-Hulkamania matches depending on what age you are in. But then again if you are going to post a thread on why Hulk Hogan or John Cena are such terrible wrestlers than you better do your research first and look at the early parts of their careers. That was what my problem with the OP was, and that's what my problem is with you at this moment, if you claim to be such a fan of wrestling then you'd at least do yourself a favor and actually research something and have some weight to the points you're trying to make. That is why I never comment on something unless I have a decent enough knowledge to back up what I am saying.

Ok, so somebody doesn't use the exact same writing style as you and that's wrong too? Good Lord, man, get out of the house more, you're delusional.
As for "doing your research", the majority of people that know HH are ones that saw him AFTER he came into the limelight. So you're going to weigh 1% of his career vs. the other 99%? That's fine, but don't complain if others don't desire to do that. And besides, just because he didn't feel like writing a novel, that doesn't mean he's wrong. It's opinion, it's a damn internet forum, and he can write as much or as little as he wants to make as much of a point as he wants. It's a personal preference. He said as much as he needed to. Get a life.

In my opinion, knowing the fundamentals is an important criteria and if you know them and make it to the next level in the business than you have to be a good wrestler or you just don't plain make it. It's from there where you find your specialty that keeps you a star in the business, IN MY OPINION...

Ok, so first having the "fundamentals" is all a person one needs to be a "good wrestler", and now it's basically what I said, what you do with the fundamentals is what makes you a "good wrestler"? Which is it? Both? Neither? That was my entire point, and btw if you didn't get the basic business analogy you're dumber than I even thought you sounded.

On the other hand, I think people like you have personal bias and dislike for performers cloud your judgment from what they are capable of doing. The fact that you know nothing about Hogan's career outside of the World Wrestling Federation and are unwilling to learn anything about him makes me have that opinion. Therefore I have no respect for most of what you've just said because I'm of the mind that you are avoiding the critical thinking that people like myself and other posters like The Natrual have exhibited. Your one-sidedness and your need to think that you have to speak for Simmo says that better than I could.

That's just funny. I don't like Shawn Michaels', but I'll give him credit for his athleticism and abilities in the ring. Just because I insulted your man-crush, you sound like you're on a quest to be the next one to wear the HOF ring. I don't care enough about him or his work to take the time to look up anything outside of the WWE/F/WCW days. (Except what I've seen of him pre-WWF w/ Freddie Blassie which I still wasn't impressed with...) I just don't like him or consider him a good "wrestler". And I think I've seen enough of his career work to make that statement. I swear, you sound like the Green Eggs and Ham guy, Sam I Am. Only difference, seeing his other work still wouldn't make me like him, or make me think he's a good wrestler. Period. And that's my prerogative, as is the OP's.

I also noticed that you "liked" the Ultimate Warrior, I take that as past tense so let me ask are you no longer a fan of the Warrior because you realize now that he was limited in the ring and that his "old hat" routine all of a sudden changes your opinion of him because you are all grown up now? Well I'll tell you this, Hogan in my opinion was a hell of a lot better than Warrior at any point, because to be honest, Warrior proved he lacked longevity in this business and Hogan time and again has shown he's the opposite, that's another thing that makes him a lot better than someone with your shortsightedness would give him credit for. Not to say that I don't give Warrior his due for the impression he made in the business for the short time he was a top star, but I still enjoyed his time that he was around. However, comparing Hulk Hogan and Ultimate Warrior is outrageous and stupid, there is no comparison Hogan>Warrior any day.

Again, this is funny. Even though I liked/like the "character" of the Warrior, I will still not in my best conscience say he was a "good wrestler" and magic in the ring. So my ability to do this is short sighted? No, sounds well rounded to me. Just because I like the character doesn't mean that I'm going to laud his ring prowess. And you just made my point that Hogan was a smart businessman and a valid "showman", but not a good "wrestler" in the truest sense of the word. Do I deny the impact he had? Of course not, but he was not a good "wrestler"! Maybe "entertainer", definitely "businessman", but not wrestler. Plus I never stated there was a comparison of Hogan to Warrior. Where did that come from, just because I used both names in the same post?

I might have been a little harsh and somewhat out of line with my usage of the term opinion, but again if you're going to post something in the non-spam section and post the way the OP did with very limited verbiage and just two visual aids, I'm going to expect a little more and therefore I'd like to see his argument that justifies his opinion.

Ok, this says it all. Just because YOU feel that the poster should have written more, doesn't mean that the poster "spammed" (since you mentioned non-spam section, sounds like you're implying) or didn't give enough information, or whatever. Sounds like you want to tell everybody how to post or what to say or how much they have to write. It's their opinion, not yours. It's fine if you debate it, but don't go telling him it's a bunch of shit and not enough. Just expand on it without being an overbearing windbag. Asking is one thing, berating is another.

I don't think there's anything wrong with asking that of the OP. Otherwise what was the point in him even creating the topic in the first place if he's not willing to support his opinion. Otherwise there's no point in creating this post in this section, it sounds like it'd have a better place in the spam section. Basically, I'm just letting YOU know that if you read the above title in this thread it's a non-spam section, opinions are welcome but let's get some critical thinking with those opinions and some good argument and discussion or else there's no point in bringing said opinions up in the first place. Maybe I just have higher standards and expect more from wrestling discussion but I'm a lifelong fan and I don't think there's anything wrong with having that disposition. It's people like you that I think have a hard time grasping at that concept. To round this whole post out, I also want to make it clear, even if I might have had issue with the OP, I'm more than glad to hear the OP's defense on the topic that was posted if he or she is willing to reply. However, it's quite cute that you think you need to chew that person's food for them, and be so bold so speak on their own behalf. I'm sure the OP can do a good enough job of speaking alone without the need to have you be so one-sided in a diatribe against me.

Again, you had an opinion about the OP's post, and I had an opinion about yours. Plain and simple. Same thing, but you obviously don't like to practice what you so painstakingly and mindnumbingly preach (over and over and over and....)

And in closing, unless you’ve ever wrestled a single match in your life, I’d very careful over who you label as a good or bad wrestler. While I have people I might not care to watch, I respect any and every individual who can make it to promotions like WWE, TNA or overseas promotions like New Japan, Pro Wrestling NOAH or All Japan. To me I don’t consider anyone who’s made it to the big time a “bad” wrestler if they can make it to the big time. Sure there are some that are better than others, but they’ve all made it to a level that not everyone can make it to. Sure you might not care for guys like Hulk Hogan, but the fact is he made it to such a successful level in the business. A “bad wrestler” doesn’t reach those heights no matter how close minded you want to be about that.

So what you're saying is that there are people in local promotions with no talent because they're not in the "big time"? Sorry to say, I've been a lifelong fan and watched everything from big time to small time and there are very good talents that are not in the "big time" or just not there yet. Sounds to me like you're just a pretentious prick. And yeah, I can name federation names too. I own videos of AWA, WCCW, Wrestling Society X, RoH, WWE, WCW, ECW, Japanese Deathmatch wrestling, Pride, UFC, etc. etc., so does that make you feel better that I have a little more "viewing experience" than what you thought? Hope so.
Also, in regards to what you say above, you shouldn't even be posting about this thread, because there are no "bad wresters" if somebody acheived great heights in the business. David Arquette was a WCW champion, and also had a match a while back on Raw. I didn't see him "hurt anybody in the ring" and he obviously achieved a huge level of success for how long his career was, so that means he's a good "wrestler" too, right?
One more thing about the above post, you like to assume plenty about my "respect" of professional wrestlers without knowing me from Adam, yet hate people saying anything about you. I really hope you are not this hypocritical in real life. I respect the hell out of the people that put their well being on the line for other people's entertainment, be it local fed or the "big time". There are hard workers on many levels, no matter how far they've gotten. So for you to come on here and say I have no respect for the athletes is asinine and ridiculous. Again with the delusional superiority complex.

I mean have you ever worked a wrestling match a day in your life? Because to be honest the truest judges of what good and bad wrestlers are the people who do it for a living and even if I might not agree with what some wrestlers might think about one another, I can understand and respect their views more than someone like you who I’m assuming has never wrestled a day in their life. If you have ever tried your hand in the business than I apologize ahead of time but I’ll take a wild guess and say you’re just like me a fan who merely watches the art of professional wrestling but has never done it for a living.

Thought you said a paragraph ago "And in closing..."?

So you don't respect your own opinion yet want to push it down others' throats? You just said you don't respect the person's view who hasn't been there and wrestled a match. (Of course, you just assume I haven't, too, even though you did put that nice little apology to cover your ass.) Then you put yourself in the same category. Come on, man. Really? You're going to bitch and moan and act like your opinion is high and mighty and then admit you're just like any other casual fan who's opinion you don't hold as valid? That above argument would make sense coming from another who's tried it out, but from you? Notsomuch.

Bottom line boss, I’m not a presumptuous and self professed expert like you’re making yourself out to sound and I’m willing to challenge a point that someone’s trying to make while welcoming any counter to what I’m trying to say. However, I got a good feeling you don’t have a lick of that. Next time, think about that before you want to bother trying to speak on another OP’s post that I’m challenging.

So challenge other posts but not yours? Let you challenge unopposed without saying anything? It doesn't matter if I'm speaking about the wrestling content or the hypocritical content of your attitude, I have an opinion about something and I shared it. Just like you did. Sounds like you can dish it out but can't take it to me. At least not in the smart ass way you initially wrote anyway. But that's fine, to each his own.

Fact is, I agreed w/the OP about Hogan, gave my opinion while at the same time referencing your post, and you got all huffy because "I didn't give Hogan credit for his time outside the mainstream". Boo hoo. To that I say once again, his time IN the mainstream was much more lengthy and prominent than the other so I will base it on what people tend to know more of. But don't worry, I get it. Let you disagree w/other posters and call them stupid, but don't criticize your post at all. Gotcha.

 

[TheHitMark-SirJoseOle]

Yeah, ok. Long winded much? Good grief, Josey, your ego gets bent out of shape pretty easily. And yeah, you pretty much did say he wasn't entitled to his opinion by saying it wasn't even an opinion and was stupid. Difference of opinion, fine, but you're just an egotistical little jerk. Simple as that. And same way you pointed out things about his post, I mentioned things about yours. Hypocritical, much? You can do it but I can't? I know you are but what am I? Cute.

What's even cuter is that the guy who called me long winded, just wrote an equally long winded rebuttal towards me. Again Mr. Pot how does it feel calling the kettle black? First of all to even start insulting me because I took exception to you talking about a wrestler I happen to be a fan of warrants you to call me a jerk makes you no better than I. You don't know me personally and all I did was challenge the OP and after myself and the OP resolved our differences on our opinions we saw where one another was coming from on our points. It sounds like you're the only one who still has issue. Sorry boss.

Ok, so somebody doesn't use the exact same writing style as you and that's wrong too? Good Lord, man, get out of the house more, you're delusional.
As for "doing your research", the majority of people that know HH are ones that saw him AFTER he came into the limelight. So you're going to weigh 1% of his career vs. the other 99%? That's fine, but don't complain if others don't desire to do that. And besides, just because he didn't feel like writing a novel, that doesn't mean he's wrong. It's opinion, it's a damn internet forum, and he can write as much or as little as he wants to make as much of a point as he wants. It's a personal preference. He said as much as he needed to. Get a life.

Again, Hulk Hogan had to have a resume in wrestling before getting that big push that Verne Gagne and later Vince McMahon gave him to superstardom. So if you are going to dare evaluate someone's entire in ring career you better know what you're talking about. I don't need to explain myself any further on that, that should just speak for itself. You're telling me to get a life but you're still willing to write back and try to tear everything I said apart. Again, who are you to talk?

Ok, so first having the "fundamentals" is all a person one needs to be a "good wrestler", and now it's basically what I said, what you do with the fundamentals is what makes you a "good wrestler"? Which is it? Both? Neither? That was my entire point, and btw if you didn't get the basic business analogy you're dumber than I even thought you sounded.

Again, you or I don't work in the wrestling business no matter what level, be it the independent scene, the big time and so forth. In order to be a fixture in the business you have to know how to wrestle even if it's not the flashiest style of wrestling or the most technical, you have to be a good wrestler or you just won't get any work, period.

That's just funny. I don't like Shawn Michaels', but I'll give him credit for his athleticism and abilities in the ring. Just because I insulted your man-crush, you sound like you're on a quest to be the next one to wear the HOF ring. I don't care enough about him or his work to take the time to look up anything outside of the WWE/F/WCW days. (Except what I've seen of him pre-WWF w/ Freddie Blassie which I still wasn't impressed with...) I just don't like him or consider him a good "wrestler". And I think I've seen enough of his career work to make that statement. I swear, you sound like the Green Eggs and Ham guy, Sam I Am. Only difference, seeing his other work still wouldn't make me like him, or make me think he's a good wrestler. Period. And that's my prerogative, as is the OP's.

Again speak for yourself and not the OP, I'm not just a fan of Hulk Hogan but if you look at my avatar I'm a Bret Hart fan too. While I'll always say that Bret Hart is a more versatile and athletic performer (King Of The Ring 1993 in his three matches against Razor, Perfect and Bam Bam say it all as well as countless other performances like his IC Title Ladder Match against Shawn Michaels and his Survivor Series 1992 title match against Shawn which I thought was just as good as any other match they've had.) I still respect and defend Hogan's place in this business because of his longevity and the fact that he had to be doing something right all these years if he could survive beyond the WWF bigger than life god push that Vince gave him. While I'll never say that Hogan's matches were better than Hart's in the athletic and technical sense, I still think he's a better worker than people want to admit.

Again, this is funny. Even though I liked/like the "character" of the Warrior, I will still not in my best conscience say he was a "good wrestler" and magic in the ring. So my ability to do this is short sighted? No, sounds well rounded to me. Just because I like the character doesn't mean that I'm going to laud his ring prowess. And you just made my point that Hogan was a smart businessman and a valid "showman", but not a good "wrestler" in the truest sense of the word. Do I deny the impact he had? Of course not, but he was not a good "wrestler"! Maybe "entertainer", definitely "businessman", but not wrestler. Plus I never stated there was a comparison of Hogan to Warrior. Where did that come from, just because I used both names in the same post?

Again, you brought Hogan and Warrior up in the same post, it sure as heck sounded like you were trying to make a comparison. Hogan's business savvy and showmanship would only last so long if he at least wasn't good on some level in the ring. If you can't see that, not my problem, it's yours and yours alone.

Ok, this says it all. Just because YOU feel that the poster should have written more, doesn't mean that the poster "spammed" (since you mentioned non-spam section, sounds like you're implying) or didn't give enough information, or whatever. Sounds like you want to tell everybody how to post or what to say or how much they have to write. It's their opinion, not yours. It's fine if you debate it, but don't go telling him it's a bunch of shit and not enough. Just expand on it without being an overbearing windbag. Asking is one thing, berating is another.

See my post above that I made directly to Simmo, I just felt a more engaging post from him would have been better, I personally felt it was a little lacking, but it's his choice to make if he wants to take constructive criticism. It was just a suggestion that I made, whether that was the right suggestion or not is debatable, but I felt nothing wrong with challenging him a bit on his point. While there might have been some weak tact, I did not go out of my way like you are to call me out on not "having a life" or being a "jerk" when you're expelling just as much energy to write rebuttals to posts that you say are long winded. Which ironically enough has shown you to be just as prone to writing long winded posts. Figure that one out for me please.

Again, you had an opinion about the OP's post, and I had an opinion about yours. Plain and simple. Same thing, but you obviously don't like to practice what you so painstakingly and mindnumbingly preach (over and over and over and....)

I explained this well enough, no need to continue except to say that I preach and preach and preach, but what are you doing now?

So what you're saying is that there are people in local promotions with no talent because they're not in the "big time"? Sorry to say, I've been a lifelong fan and watched everything from big time to small time and there are very good talents that are not in the "big time" or just not there yet. Sounds to me like you're just a pretentious prick. And yeah, I can name federation names too. I own videos of AWA, WCCW, Wrestling Society X, RoH, WWE, WCW, ECW, Japanese Deathmatch wrestling, Pride, UFC, etc. etc., so does that make you feel better that I have a little more "viewing experience" than what you thought? Hope so.
Also, in regards to what you say above, you shouldn't even be posting about this thread, because there are no "bad wresters" if somebody acheived great heights in the business. David Arquette was a WCW champion, and also had a match a while back on Raw. I didn't see him "hurt anybody in the ring" and he obviously achieved a huge level of success for how long his career was, so that means he's a good "wrestler" too, right?
One more thing about the above post, you like to assume plenty about my "respect" of professional wrestlers without knowing me from Adam, yet hate people saying anything about you. I really hope you are not this hypocritical in real life. I respect the hell out of the people that put their well being on the line for other people's entertainment, be it local fed or the "big time". There are hard workers on many levels, no matter how far they've gotten. So for you to come on here and say I have no respect for the athletes is asinine and ridiculous. Again with the delusional superiority complex.

You don't have respect period, and just because I did not mention the independents does not mean I don't have respect for them, in fact the last three wrestling shows I went to were indies. Two ROH shows in the last year and one promotion called North East Wrestling. Do I need to show you my ticket stubs to appease your accusations. Forgive me for not bringing up one aspect of the business. David Arquette is a whole other matter and WCW in my opinion was all the worse for that move, it's sad to see that a company like WCW fell into the hands of a conglomerate that let it go to disarray. But again that's a story for another thread. Also the difference between Hulk Hogan and David Arquette is that Hulk Hogan's career as a wrestler was his whole life for quite some time, while David Arquette is just a celebrity who made a few token appearances. Please don't insult what little intelligence I might have to make a comparison between these two, and you're calling me dumb...please!

Thought you said a paragraph ago "And in closing..."?

So you don't respect your own opinion yet want to push it down others' throats? You just said you don't respect the person's view who hasn't been there and wrestled a match. (Of course, you just assume I haven't, too, even though you did put that nice little apology to cover your ass.) Then you put yourself in the same category. Come on, man. Really? You're going to bitch and moan and act like your opinion is high and mighty and then admit you're just like any other casual fan who's opinion you don't hold as valid? That above argument would make sense coming from another who's tried it out, but from you? Notsomuch.

Yeah I said "And in closing" and added a bit more than I expected too but again this is coming from a guy who can't use the return/enter key...ok. And the fact that I admit I've never worked a professional wrestling match in my life says a lot more about my respect for the artform than you. Period. For instance if someone here who's ever worked in the indies or the big time was posting on this forum I'd sure as hell take their word for a lot more on how the business works than I would from you. And if you want to think I was apologizing to cover my ass you're an even bigger idiot, fact being everything I've said and posted on here is beyond my control in the way of moderating and/or deleting. Bottom line though I wouldn't change a thing I said even if it was the wrong thing to say or it ruffled people's feathers a bit. I merely apologized because even I realize that I can be wrong unlike you.

So challenge other posts but not yours? Let you challenge unopposed without saying anything? It doesn't matter if I'm speaking about the wrestling content or the hypocritical content of your attitude, I have an opinion about something and I shared it. Just like you did. Sounds like you can dish it out but can't take it to me. At least not in the smart ass way you initially wrote anyway. But that's fine, to each his own.

Fact is, I agreed w/the OP about Hogan, gave my opinion while at the same time referencing your post, and you got all huffy because "I didn't give Hogan credit for his time outside the mainstream". Boo hoo. To that I say once again, his time IN the mainstream was much more lengthy and prominent than the other so I will base it on what people tend to know more of. But don't worry, I get it. Let you disagree w/other posters and call them stupid, but don't criticize your post at all. Gotcha.

If anything you're the one who can dish it out but not take it, you are calling me out for being a hypocrite and you are no better. At the end of the day I will admit that each and every one of us fall victim to being hypocritical the big difference is though is that there are those that can admit to having been that way and there's others that can't. You my good man fall into the latter because it's obvious that you want to continue to attack my points and act like a third grader with words like prick and jerk just because I challenged your views even more than the OPs. So at the end of the day, who are you to even begin talking about how others conduct themselves on this forum?

 

[FatGuyIan]

I really find it annoying that in an "Old School Wrestling" section, I still can't escape people constantly arguing over whether or not John Cena is a pile of shit. Who cares? He's about as "old school" as my 4 year old nephew.

Seriously, most hilarious thing ever. Except the gooker. Nothing is funnier than the gooker.

In regards to the topic at hand, I would have to say that Good Gimmick: Bad Wrestler would be a great description of Diesel. Big Daddy Cool had solid mic skills, but was lost in the ring beyond the jackknife powerbomb. Great Gimmick, Bad Wrestler.

 

[UltimateHitman]

What's even cuter is that the guy who called me long winded, just wrote an equally long winded rebuttal towards me. Again Mr. Pot how does it feel calling the kettle black? First of all to even start insulting me because I took exception to you talking about a wrestler I happen to be a fan of warrants you to call me a jerk makes you no better than I. You don't know me personally and all I did was challenge the OP and after myself and the OP resolved our differences on our opinions we saw where one another was coming from on our points. It sounds like you're the only one who still has issue. Sorry boss.

Again, the only relevance is the fact that instead of just being "critical" you called him stupid and pointless. Now you're trying to make is sound like you were Mr. Cordial. Please, don't backpedal.

Again, Hulk Hogan had to have a resume in wrestling before getting that big push that Verne Gagne and later Vince McMahon gave him to superstardom. So if you are going to dare evaluate someone's entire in ring career you better know what you're talking about. I don't need to explain myself any further on that, that should just speak for itself. You're telling me to get a life but you're still willing to write back and try to tear everything I said apart. Again, who are you to talk?

Again, just like anybody else that "made" it to WWE before fading away. Everybody had to have talent, even the jobbers, to get where they are. But that doesn't mean they're "good wrestlers". Just means they have the minimal tools to perform their jobs. And seeing more than a majority of somebody's work is enough to make an evaluation. I even said I've seen some of his stuff before the WWE mega-push (not voluntarily, but I saw it) and still wasn't impressed enough to call him "good". Passable, maybe, but never good.

Again, you or I don't work in the wrestling business no matter what level, be it the independent scene, the big time and so forth. In order to be a fixture in the business you have to know how to wrestle even if it's not the flashiest style of wrestling or the most technical, you have to be a good wrestler or you just won't get any work, period.

And again, nice of you to assume I haven't had any kind of hand in the biz. And yes, I agreed that you have to know the "basics". That doesn't mean you're "good". Knowing how to basically perform one's job isn't the same as being good at it. Don't know how much simpler I can get. Obviously not enough to get it down to your level, but...

Again speak for yourself and not the OP, I'm not just a fan of Hulk Hogan but if you look at my avatar I'm a Bret Hart fan too. While I'll always say that Bret Hart is a more versatile and athletic performer (King Of The Ring 1993 in his three matches against Razor, Perfect and Bam Bam say it all as well as countless other performances like his IC Title Ladder Match against Shawn Michaels and his Survivor Series 1992 title match against Shawn which I thought was just as good as any other match they've had.) I still respect and defend Hogan's place in this business because of his longevity and the fact that he had to be doing something right all these years if he could survive beyond the WWF bigger than life god push that Vince gave him. While I'll never say that Hogan's matches were better than Hart's in the athletic and technical sense, I still think he's a better worker than people want to admit.

See above.

Again, you brought Hogan and Warrior up in the same post, it sure as heck sounded like you were trying to make a comparison. Hogan's business savvy and showmanship would only last so long if he at least wasn't good on some level in the ring. If you can't see that, not my problem, it's yours and yours alone.

Ok, bringing two people up in the same post is now comparing them. Different things entirely. And I'm not the one with the perception problem, btw.

See my post above that I made directly to Simmo, I just felt a more engaging post from him would have been better, I personally felt it was a little lacking, but it's his choice to make if he wants to take constructive criticism. It was just a suggestion that I made, whether that was the right suggestion or not is debatable, but I felt nothing wrong with challenging him a bit on his point. While there might have been some weak tact, I did not go out of my way like you are to call me out on not "having a life" or being a "jerk" when you're expelling just as much energy to write rebuttals to posts that you say are long winded. Which ironically enough has shown you to be just as prone to writing long winded posts. Figure that one out for me please.

Calling somebody stupid isn't the same as challenging. Don't act like a saint now. Plus, I simply pointed it out in my post. You feel like you have to continuously defend yourself and make yourself sound like the kid caught w/chocolate around his mouth when asked if he ate the cookies. "I didn't do it..."
And yeah, you were a jerk. I just called you out on it and now your upset. Boo hoo.

I explained this well enough, no need to continue except to say that I preach and preach and preach, but what are you doing now?

I'll just leave this here for posterity's sake.

You don't have respect period, and just because I did not mention the independents does not mean I don't have respect for them, in fact the last three wrestling shows I went to were indies. Two ROH shows in the last year and one promotion called North East Wrestling. Do I need to show you my ticket stubs to appease your accusations. Forgive me for not bringing up one aspect of the business. David Arquette is a whole other matter and WCW in my opinion was all the worse for that move, it's sad to see that a company like WCW fell into the hands of a conglomerate that let it go to disarray. But again that's a story for another thread. Also the difference between Hulk Hogan and David Arquette is that Hulk Hogan's career as a wrestler was his whole life for quite some time, while David Arquette is just a celebrity who made a few token appearances. Please don't insult what little intelligence I might have to make a comparison between these two, and you're calling me dumb...please!

Again, you don't know me, so don't even attempt to suppose my level of respect. You don't know me, I don't know you, so you know nothing about it. That's common logic. So quit trying to fan the flames by saying you do.
I never asked you for references. You questioned mine and I commented. Again, simple as that. Who asked for ticket stubs? Yawn.
Btw, don't you love my Enter/Return key usage, Mr. Tell People How to Post?
I mentioned Arquette because of your statement "to me I don’t consider anyone who’s made it to the big time a “bad” wrestler if they can make it to the big time." He made it to the big time, didn't he? WCW was considered big time when he was champion, plus he also got a match recently on WWE Raw, so by your logic Arquette is a "good wrestler" too. He was good enough to make it to the big time twice.

Yeah I said "And in closing" and added a bit more than I expected too but again this is coming from a guy who can't use the return/enter key...ok. And the fact that I admit I've never worked a professional wrestling match in my life says a lot more about my respect for the artform than you. Period. For instance if someone here who's ever worked in the indies or the big time was posting on this forum I'd sure as hell take their word for a lot more on how the business works than I would from you. And if you want to think I was apologizing to cover my ass you're an even bigger idiot, fact being everything I've said and posted on here is beyond my control in the way of moderating and/or deleting. Bottom line though I wouldn't change a thing I said even if it was the wrong thing to say or it ruffled people's feathers a bit. I merely apologized because even I realize that I can be wrong unlike you.

Sigh. First, quit repeating the same enter key insult. It's not working. Secondly, how is admitting you've never worked a wrestling match somehow related to a person's level of respect for an artform? If somebody has never picked up a paintbrush do they have no respect for art or artists? I love your logic sometimes.
Third, I said covering your ass w/the apology because you had no idea what I've done in relation to the business. That's what it meant, genius.
Fourth, I'm never wrong. Just a fact of life. Accept it.

If anything you're the one who can dish it out but not take it, you are calling me out for being a hypocrite and you are no better. At the end of the day I will admit that each and every one of us fall victim to being hypocritical the big difference is though is that there are those that can admit to having been that way and there's others that can't. You my good man fall into the latter because it's obvious that you want to continue to attack my points and act like a third grader with words like prick and jerk just because I challenged your views even more than the OPs. So at the end of the day, who are you to even begin talking about how others conduct themselves on this forum?

What? lol Was this paragraph even serious? I hope not... And btw, I never claimed to be some kind of saint that was above using the words prick or jerk. Just call 'em like I see 'em. And when I saw it, you were. Oh, and I wasn't the one telling people how to post and calling them stupid at the beginning. That was you.

 

[TheHitMark-SirJoseOle]

Again, the only relevance is the fact that instead of just being "critical" you called him stupid and pointless. Now you're trying to make is sound like you were Mr. Cordial. Please, don't backpedal.

Never backpedaled for a second, just met the OP halfway, get over it, and just shut up you complete idiot. Because you still are only continuing to prove that you are no better than all the things you're calling me out on.

Again, just like anybody else that "made" it to WWE before fading away. Everybody had to have talent, even the jobbers, to get where they are. But that doesn't mean they're "good wrestlers". Just means they have the minimal tools to perform their jobs. And seeing more than a majority of somebody's work is enough to make an evaluation. I even said I've seen some of his stuff before the WWE mega-push (not voluntarily, but I saw it) and still wasn't impressed enough to call him "good". Passable, maybe, but never good.

And again, nice of you to assume I haven't had any kind of hand in the biz. And yes, I agreed that you have to know the "basics". That doesn't mean you're "good". Knowing how to basically perform one's job isn't the same as being good at it. Don't know how much simpler I can get. Obviously not enough to get it down to your level, but...

Whatever Ultimate Hitman, people that wrestle for x amount of years such as guys like Hogan, I perceive to be good because they've lasted for the long haul. But please continue digging your hole because you're making me laugh, however you're making me laugh so hard right now, that I might end up causing myself internal damage from being so amused by your bs that it might take me a couple of days to come back to the computer and read your next rebuttal, because I am more than sure you'll be writing another rant towards me again. But please do so, because it only "feeds my ego".

Calling somebody stupid isn't the same as challenging. Don't act like a saint now. Plus, I simply pointed it out in my post. You feel like you have to continuously defend yourself and make yourself sound like the kid caught w/chocolate around his mouth when asked if he ate the cookies. "I didn't do it..."

And yeah, you were a jerk. I just called you out on it and now your upset. Boo hoo.

Never said I wasn't a jerk, in fact being a jerk is one of my best qualities. Your analogies make me wince in sheer amazement/shock that you can be just as petty as the people whom you try to label as being such.

Again, you don't know me, so don't even attempt to suppose my level of respect. You don't know me, I don't know you, so you know nothing about it. That's common logic. So quit trying to fan the flames by saying you do.
I never asked you for references. You questioned mine and I commented. Again, simple as that. Who asked for ticket stubs? Yawn.
Btw, don't you love my Enter/Return key usage, Mr. Tell People How to Post?
I mentioned Arquette because of your statement "to me I don’t consider anyone who’s made it to the big time a “bad” wrestler if they can make it to the big time." He made it to the big time, didn't he? WCW was considered big time when he was champion, plus he also got a match recently on WWE Raw, so by your logic Arquette is a "good wrestler" too. He was good enough to make it to the big time twice.

Funny, I don't know you, but yet you seem to have this feeling that you know me, if not what's up with all the cute little petnames and digs? Not that I'm complaining because it's amusing to me. But obviously, you're the one with a few issues going on, the difference between you and I, I don't mind admitting it. You on the other hand seem to be struggling a bit there, lad.

David Arquette was nothing more than a publicity stunt, he is not nor will he ever be someone like Hulk Hogan, anyone with half a brain knows that. So no I don't consider David Arquette much of a wrestler at all. My original point when I made a retort towards the OP was that Hulk Hogan is a good wrestler, plain and simple. Sure he had business savvy and showmanship to help make him a bigger name in the sport, but again image only takes you so far, there has to be some substance to sell all the goods. Hogan did that plain and simple, even I a staunch fan of his admit that he was formulaic and no the technical side was far from innovative but I still think he's a good wrestler plain and simple.

Sigh. First, quit repeating the same enter key insult. It's not working. Secondly, how is admitting you've never worked a wrestling match somehow related to a person's level of respect for an artform? If somebody has never picked up a paintbrush do they have no respect for art or artists? I love your logic sometimes.
Third, I said covering your ass w/the apology because you had no idea what I've done in relation to the business. That's what it meant, genius.
Fourth, I'm never wrong. Just a fact of life. Accept it.

A-HA! So you're upset that I told someone how to post and now you're doing the same thing on me? I mean is this a case of trying to give me a taste of my own medicine, are you the voice of the IWC trying to put me in my place and stop me from continuing my "reign of tyranny" on the internet?

Obviously what I said is working on some level (the enter key reference) because you just brought it up and decided not to ignore it. I mean after all you butchered my other posts when you quoted them, you could have just as easily omitted my umpteenth reference to the enter/return key comment. If you started things off in your original rebuttal towards me by calling one of my quotes "long winded babble" what really makes you any better. Answer that one for me, period. As far as covering my ass, well for all I know you could have been a professional wrestler on any level, if that were to have been the case, I'd have given you the benefit of the doubt on some of the things you said. The thing is though, while I might have a presumptuous stance about wrestling at times, I will definitely give someone the benefit of the doubt if they've actually performed in the ring. While sometimes I might get carried away in my rebuttals towards other posters that criticize the product and its performers, I still feel there's a lot of critics out there that lambaste several aspects of professional wrestling without understanding what they are criticizing due to not being in the business themselves. Even I will tend to fall into that category but at the same time, at least I know my place and that's as a fan. Therefore my criticisms have a greater chance of being unfounded about a quality of a certain wrestler's work, in essence just because I might not like something doesn't mean it's not good. Personally, I'm not a a fan of high flying wrestlers as a whole, but I've always been impressed with the abilities of guys like Rey Mysterio and Jushin Thunder Liger, and while I don't like their styles per se, I see beyond my own biases and realize that these two men are great wrestlers. Period. In other words I'm going to be a lot more keen on taking someone's word on what's good and bad in performance side of the wrestling business from someone who has actually experienced it than some idiot sitting behind a keyboard because he didn't like the tone that I took with replying to someone else's comment.

What? lol Was this paragraph even serious? I hope not... And btw, I never claimed to be some kind of saint that was above using the words prick or jerk. Just call 'em like I see 'em. And when I saw it, you were. Oh, and I wasn't the one telling people how to post and calling them stupid at the beginning. That was you.

Not disputing the fact of whether I was a jerk or not. However, don't kid yourself and think you are any better because that is what you are doing, you're preaching whether you want to admit it or not. So therefore, I'm calling it like and I see it and declaring that you're being just as big a prick or jerk as anyone else. Obviously other people on this thread including the OP haven't taken such an issue about what I said. You on the other hand have, and I find it quite amusing on your part.

To be quite honest with you, I've got a notoriously bad habit with how I conduct myself on this forum sometimes. Most of my experiences reading the posts of people on the internet make me feel that in a lot of cases it's warranted. Considering the amount of armchair experts and smart marks that exist out there.

Sometimes, my interactions with people on these forums sometimes start off very adversarial but every once in a while, I tend to meet the users I've criticized and I lambasted half-way on certain topics. I'm not saying that this is the right way to do business on this forum, and I might benefit from a little bit of etiquette sometimes but that's for me to worry about fixing and not you.

Obviously you're a lot more ********* than the OP ever was, because since his last post, I haven't seen him post a single follow up to anything else I've said. You on the other hand just can't seem to get enough of calling me out on something. It all sounds like a personal problem to me, champ.

 

[UltimateHitman]

Never backpedaled for a second, just met the OP halfway, get over it, and just shut up you complete idiot. Because you still are only continuing to prove that you are no better than all the things you're calling me out on.

And you complained I called you names but are now resorting to that same menial level you complained about. So what's the point of saying "you're doing what I'm doing", if you're just going to do what I did?

Whatever Ultimate Hitman, people that wrestle for x amount of years such as guys like Hogan, I perceive to be good because they've lasted for the long haul. But please continue digging your hole because you're making me laugh, however you're making me laugh so hard right now, that I might end up causing myself internal damage from being so amused by your bs that it might take me a couple of days to come back to the computer and read your next rebuttal, because I am more than sure you'll be writing another rant towards me again. But please do so, because it only "feeds my ego".

His technique was never "good". That was the point of the post. And it's funny you are so adamant about your "opinion" when other people's opinions are just as valid. That's where the ego part comes in, skippy.

Never said I wasn't a jerk, in fact being a jerk is one of my best qualities. Your analogies make me wince in sheer amazement/shock that you can be just as petty as the people whom you try to label as being such.

No, you are not even an efficient jerk. You just fail on every level.

Funny, I don't know you, but yet you seem to have this feeling that you know me, if not what's up with all the cute little petnames and digs? Not that I'm complaining because it's amusing to me. But obviously, you're the one with a few issues going on, the difference between you and I, I don't mind admitting it. You on the other hand seem to be struggling a bit there, lad.

Actually, you were the one that likes to assume he knows other people (i.e. level of respect for the wrestling business, amount of experience in said business). I never assumed any of that about you. But you keep up the failed attempts at witticisms. Maybe you'll get lucky someday.

David Arquette was nothing more than a publicity stunt, he is not nor will he ever be someone like Hulk Hogan, anyone with half a brain knows that. So no I don't consider David Arquette much of a wrestler at all. My original point when I made a retort towards the OP was that Hulk Hogan is a good wrestler, plain and simple. Sure he had business savvy and showmanship to help make him a bigger name in the sport, but again image only takes you so far, there has to be some substance to sell all the goods. Hogan did that plain and simple, even I a staunch fan of his admit that he was formulaic and no the technical side was far from innovative but I still think he's a good wrestler plain and simple.

But he achieved a level of success in the business. That was your direct quote. And no amount of justifying your "retort" will change the fact you like trying to press your opinion on somebody while bashing somebody else's. It pains you to hear somebody call your man-crush a "bad" wrestler. Get over it. He was. My opinion. Not going to change, and not wrong. Just as your opinion is not wrong "for you". That's why it's called an opinion, genius.

A-HA! So you're upset that I told someone how to post and now you're doing the same thing on me? I mean is this a case of trying to give me a taste of my own medicine, are you the voice of the IWC trying to put me in my place and stop me from continuing my "reign of tyranny" on the internet?

Aha? Really? Are you really that crazed that you wait for something to point at and say "look, you did what I did!". Look, kid, you really need some help. Plus, all I did (besides agree with the OP about Hogan) was point out how obsessed and douche-y you sounded in your original post. Which you keep reinforcing in leaps and bounds, btw.

Obviously what I said is working on some level (the enter key reference) because you just brought it up and decided not to ignore it. I mean after all you butchered my other posts when you quoted them, you could have just as easily omitted my umpteenth reference to the enter/return key comment. If you started things off in your original rebuttal towards me by calling one of my quotes "long winded babble" what really makes you any better. Answer that one for me, period. As far as covering my ass, well for all I know you could have been a professional wrestler on any level, if that were to have been the case, I'd have given you the benefit of the doubt on some of the things you said. The thing is though, while I might have a presumptuous stance about wrestling at times, I will definitely give someone the benefit of the doubt if they've actually performed in the ring. While sometimes I might get carried away in my rebuttals towards other posters that criticize the product and its performers, I still feel there's a lot of critics out there that lambaste several aspects of professional wrestling without understanding what they are criticizing due to not being in the business themselves. Even I will tend to fall into that category but at the same time, at least I know my place and that's as a fan. Therefore my criticisms have a greater chance of being unfounded about a quality of a certain wrestler's work, in essence just because I might not like something doesn't mean it's not good. Personally, I'm not a a fan of high flying wrestlers as a whole, but I've always been impressed with the abilities of guys like Rey Mysterio and Jushin Thunder Liger, and while I don't like their styles per se, I see beyond my own biases and realize that these two men are great wrestlers. Period. In other words I'm going to be a lot more keen on taking someone's word on what's good and bad in performance side of the wrestling business from someone who has actually experienced it than some idiot sitting behind a keyboard because he didn't like the tone that I took with replying to someone else's comment.

1) No, it didn't work on any level. I was trying to save you further embarrassment and let you know it wasn't worth repeating any more.
2) Answer to your question. Count the number of words we've each used. Plus you hammer a senseless point to death. Hence "long winded".
3) And again you still don't know if I've ever participated in the business. (Yes, btw, not that it matters. A person could be in the business and be so blind or arrogant that would cause him or her to be opinionated, or even less knowledgeable, about a certain topic than others. So your theory about being in the business being a precursor to valid opinions is still not entirely accurate.)

Not disputing the fact of whether I was a jerk or not. However, don't kid yourself and think you are any better because that is what you are doing, you're preaching whether you want to admit it or not. So therefore, I'm calling it like and I see it and declaring that you're being just as big a prick or jerk as anyone else. Obviously other people on this thread including the OP haven't taken such an issue about what I said. You on the other hand have, and I find it quite amusing on your part.

Never said I wasn't an asshole, or opinionated, or that I didn't like calling people out. You just seem to enjoy downplaying your side while trying to find a way to "get one over" on somebody else.
And I didn't say what I said to "defend" the OP. I said what I said because it was true, and you're just pissed somebody called you on it. That's why we're still going back and forth because it kills you not to be able to make some kind, any kind, of point.

To be quite honest with you, I've got a notoriously bad habit with how I conduct myself on this forum sometimes. Most of my experiences reading the posts of people on the internet make me feel that in a lot of cases it's warranted. Considering the amount of armchair experts and smart marks that exist out there.

I don't know if I should laugh or shake my head at this one. You yourself stated that the people who "haven't worked in the business" basically don't know what they are talking about, you stated that you are, in fact, one of those people, and now you're saying that your opinion of these people is to look down on them as "armchair experts and smart marks". Think about that for a minute. The people you put in the same category as yourself you are talking down to and basically saying that you're smarter than they are. If you're in the same category "business experience" wise, why do you find it necessary to talk down to them, treat them like they're stupid, and call them that, much less say your high and mighty opinion is "warranted"?

Sometimes, my interactions with people on these forums sometimes start off very adversarial but every once in a while, I tend to meet the users I've criticized and I lambasted half-way on certain topics. I'm not saying that this is the right way to do business on this forum, and I might benefit from a little bit of etiquette sometimes but that's for me to worry about fixing and not you.

Admitting the problem is the first step.

Obviously you're a lot more ********* than the OP ever was, because since his last post, I haven't seen him post a single follow up to anything else I've said. You on the other hand just can't seem to get enough of calling me out on something. It all sounds like a personal problem to me, champ.

Well let's see. After my initial post, you went from directing your confrontational nature at him over to me. Doesn't matter if the OP quit saying anything or not, you started replying to my post instead of continuing to bait him. In simpler terms, it has nothing to do with the OP anymore, so why even mention him? I don't see any kind of logic at all in this, although I can honestly say I'm not surprised at all at the lack of aforementioned logic.

 

[TheHitMark-SirJoseOle]

And you complained I called you names but are now resorting to that same menial level you complained about. So what's the point of saying "you're doing what I'm doing", if you're just going to do what I did?

Nope, I was just making an observation and you obviously can't handle someone who's willing to argue right back with you, which in turn makes you so quick to want to come up with the put downs. This is your problem that you're starting and I am merely defending my points and standing my ground. I'm just not the one bitten by the denial bug, muchacho.

His technique was never "good". That was the point of the post. And it's funny you are so adamant about your "opinion" when other people's opinions are just as valid. That's where the ego part comes in, skippy.

Yeah and I'm sure you're the be all end all of what's a good wrestler and what's a bad wrestler. Again, I stand by my argument and won't bring it up ad nauseum. It did the job plain and simple, it met some definition of good sorry if it didn't fall in line with your golden standards. But don't dare bring ego into this and say it's all on me, because you have to have one yourself if you keep replying to me. In fact I think this discussion is becoming more about Hogan's wrestling ability and more about you trying to rectify some grave injustice I've committed on this thread because I happened to not like how the OP constructed his topic. Again you could've ignored me at any time, but since I guess you think you're the sheriff of the wrestlezone boards you can't let a single stone go unturned because someone like me happens to be "abrasive" with his posting.

No, you are not even an efficient jerk. You just fail on every level.

By telling me that, you are really saying that I am the epitome of what a jerk is and I actually take that as a term of endearment, thank you so much, it's good to know that you're really the one that's failing at this whole topic.

Actually, you were the one that likes to assume he knows other people (i.e. level of respect for the wrestling business, amount of experience in said business). I never assumed any of that about you. But you keep up the failed attempts at witticisms. Maybe you'll get lucky someday.

Well, I respect the business to know that I am not in it and I'll even only take my opinion so far when arguing a point, obviously you being so quick to agree that Hogan is such a bad wrestler is so questionable because again he has longevity and again my feeling is you don't last long without being good at it on some level and again the marketing and showmanship only lasts so long, he's got to able to at least know something to stay a step or two in lien with everyone else.

You think Hogan sucks so bad as a wrestler, but let me ask you have you ever trained for the profession yourself? Just answer me that, unless you can tell me that you've worked even a fraction of the time that he has in the business, I'd be very very weary over what you're going to say is a "bad" wrestler. You know maybe, I could be wrong in how good Hogan really is, but you know what, I've never had to go through the physical toll that profession puts on your body, he has. The same goes for anyone who's trained to be in that business at any level, you can dislike who they are and not be a fan of what they do, but saying they're necessarily bad because you don't like their style is just as preposterous as anything I've said.

But he achieved a level of success in the business. That was your direct quote. And no amount of justifying your "retort" will change the fact you like trying to press your opinion on somebody while bashing somebody else's. It pains you to hear somebody call your man-crush a "bad" wrestler. Get over it. He was. My opinion. Not going to change, and not wrong. Just as your opinion is not wrong "for you". That's why it's called an opinion, genius.

No I like challenging a point and if I am a little less than cordial and fail to meet your stupid standards of how I should conduct myself on this forum, then that's something you gotta deal with, sport.

Aha? Really? Are you really that crazed that you wait for something to point at and say "look, you did what I did!". Look, kid, you really need some help. Plus, all I did (besides agree with the OP about Hogan) was point out how obsessed and douche-y you sounded in your original post. Which you keep reinforcing in leaps and bounds, btw.

Hahaha, dude seriously you decide to keep replying to my posts, it's not my problem if you want to keep this going.

1) No, it didn't work on any level. I was trying to save you further embarrassment and let you know it wasn't worth repeating any more.
2) Answer to your question. Count the number of words we've each used. Plus you hammer a senseless point to death. Hence "long winded".
3) And again you still don't know if I've ever participated in the business. (Yes, btw, not that it matters. A person could be in the business and be so blind or arrogant that would cause him or her to be opinionated, or even less knowledgeable, about a certain topic than others. So your theory about being in the business being a precursor to valid opinions is still not entirely accurate.)

1) Yeah it did, you keep replying. Nuff said on that one.
2) The fact you suggested that I do a word count shows that you're just as obsessed as you are accusing me of being.
3) Are you saying yes that you were in the business? If so, I'd have been willing to take a different tone with you in the first place. Should have just said it in the first place if that was the case.

Never said I wasn't an asshole, or opinionated, or that I didn't like calling people out. You just seem to enjoy downplaying your side while trying to find a way to "get one over" on somebody else.
And I didn't say what I said to "defend" the OP. I said what I said because it was true, and you're just pissed somebody called you on it. That's why we're still going back and forth because it kills you not to be able to make some kind, any kind, of point.

Sure thing dude, yeah I got a feeling you're just as inclined to "get one over" on people, after all you keep replying to me all in the name of "saving me embarrassment"...right. I wouldn't even buy that one with YOUR life savings.

I don't know if I should laugh or shake my head at this one. You yourself stated that the people who "haven't worked in the business" basically don't know what they are talking about, you stated that you are, in fact, one of those people, and now you're saying that your opinion of these people is to look down on them as "armchair experts and smart marks". Think about that for a minute. The people you put in the same category as yourself you are talking down to and basically saying that you're smarter than they are. If you're in the same category "business experience" wise, why do you find it necessary to talk down to them, treat them like they're stupid, and call them that, much less say your high and mighty opinion is "warranted"?

Yeah I stand by that statement because when I watch wrestling, I watch an artform that someone can do that I don't know how to do myself. I'm adamant in calling out people who are more quick to criticize the performance of someone and resort to your level. Because I am not a smart mark, I watch the business for the appreciation of what these people do and the people that I don't like as wrestlers I am not going to say they suck and act the way you do. I.e. that Hulkamarkiacs line you made in one post, you don't like Hogan we get the picture, but you want to insult the fanbase that does. Get over yourself. Trust me there is a difference between a fan and a smart mark. I don't claim to know everything about the business and I don't mind arguing with people who think they do.

Admitting the problem is the first step.

Yeah maybe you and I can walk the rest of the 12 steps together there jerky. Because I got a feeling you're sharing some of the same symptoms.

Well let's see. After my initial post, you went from directing your confrontational nature at him over to me. Doesn't matter if the OP quit saying anything or not, you started replying to my post instead of continuing to bait him. In simpler terms, it has nothing to do with the OP anymore, so why even mention him? I don't see any kind of logic at all in this, although I can honestly say I'm not surprised at all at the lack of aforementioned logic.

Well why shouldn't I direct it back at you after all you started with me, you were obviously a lot more bothered by what I said than he was, but all the power to ya if you want to be as big of a hypocrite as I am. All the power to ya.

 

[UltimateHitman]

Nope, I was just making an observation and you obviously can't handle someone who's willing to argue right back with you, which in turn makes you so quick to want to come up with the put downs. This is your problem that you're starting and I am merely defending my points and standing my ground. I'm just not the one bitten by the denial bug, muchacho.

This coming from the guy that couldn't handle a simple observation about his post and somebody else's opinion. You really cannot be this stupid, can you? You are only supporting my initial observation, not "arguing" anything. You are really a blind fool, and I feel sorry for you.

Yeah and I'm sure you're the be all end all of what's a good wrestler and what's a bad wrestler. Again, I stand by my argument and won't bring it up ad nauseum. It did the job plain and simple, it met some definition of good sorry if it didn't fall in line with your golden standards. But don't dare bring ego into this and say it's all on me, because you have to have one yourself if you keep replying to me. In fact I think this discussion is becoming more about Hogan's wrestling ability and more about you trying to rectify some grave injustice I've committed on this thread because I happened to not like how the OP constructed his topic. Again you could've ignored me at any time, but since I guess you think you're the sheriff of the wrestlezone boards you can't let a single stone go unturned because someone like me happens to be "abrasive" with his posting.

Again, it's opinion genius. I don't agree, I stated my opinion, you just got pissy when others' opinions didn't match yours. Get a life, bro, really. And could've ignored you? Like you could've ignored bashing people and just made your post? Laughable and sad, just like the fact that you complain about me being "abrasive" and then say that's what you are and people should get over it. You doing what you say others need to do would make more sense.

By telling me that, you are really saying that I am the epitome of what a jerk is and I actually take that as a term of endearment, thank you so much, it's good to know that you're really the one that's failing at this whole topic.

Saying you fail is saying that you are the epitome of a jerk? Please explain this backwards logic. I would love to hear that one.

Well, I respect the business to know that I am not in it and I'll even only take my opinion so far when arguing a point, obviously you being so quick to agree that Hogan is such a bad wrestler is so questionable because again he has longevity and again my feeling is you don't last long without being good at it on some level and again the marketing and showmanship only lasts so long, he's got to able to at least know something to stay a step or two in lien with everyone else.

You respect nothing. The only thing you like are your own words and think they make sense.

You think Hogan sucks so bad as a wrestler, but let me ask you have you ever trained for the profession yourself? Just answer me that, unless you can tell me that you've worked even a fraction of the time that he has in the business, I'd be very very weary over what you're going to say is a "bad" wrestler. You know maybe, I could be wrong in how good Hogan really is, but you know what, I've never had to go through the physical toll that profession puts on your body, he has. The same goes for anyone who's trained to be in that business at any level, you can dislike who they are and not be a fan of what they do, but saying they're necessarily bad because you don't like their style is just as preposterous as anything I've said.

First off, I told you I had. You keep ignoring points and just throw things out either at random or repetitiously. You really need to read and think before you speak. And again, it's funny that you condemn people for supposedly not knowing what it's like to participate in the business, yet you admit yourself you have not. Do you seriously not see how you come across? You talk like you know, admit you don't, then bash somebody for allegedly not knowing something you yourself do not know? Did you follow along there? Can you explain your ignorant logic?

No I like challenging a point and if I am a little less than cordial and fail to meet your stupid standards of how I should conduct myself on this forum, then that's something you gotta deal with, sport.

Let's see, practice what you preach and don't complain if somebody does what you say is perfectly fine when you do it. Bitch about somebody else having some kind of "standards" and then repeatedly mention your own "standards". Good grief, I cannot believe the level of some people's thinking...

Hahaha, dude seriously you decide to keep replying to my posts, it's not my problem if you want to keep this going.

I'm waiting for the light bulb to go off over your head and realize how ******ed you sound. So far it hasn't happened.

1) Yeah it did, you keep replying. Nuff said on that one.
2) The fact you suggested that I do a word count shows that you're just as obsessed as you are accusing me of being.
3) Are you saying yes that you were in the business? If so, I'd have been willing to take a different tone with you in the first place. Should have just said it in the first place if that was the case.

Hmmm, laughing at my replies when you reply yourself. You reek of hypocrisy and muddled thinking. Nice attempt at playing things off but you are simply transparent.

Sure thing dude, yeah I got a feeling you're just as inclined to "get one over" on people, after all you keep replying to me all in the name of "saving me embarrassment"...right. I wouldn't even buy that one with YOUR life savings.

Just keep re-hashing what I say like you came up with it yourself. Waiting for some originality on your end other than changing somebody's post around. On second thought, I don't think I want to wait for that originality, I'll be waiting forever.

Yeah I stand by that statement because when I watch wrestling, I watch an artform that someone can do that I don't know how to do myself. I'm adamant in calling out people who are more quick to criticize the performance of someone and resort to your level. Because I am not a smart mark, I watch the business for the appreciation of what these people do and the people that I don't like as wrestlers I am not going to say they suck and act the way you do. I.e. that Hulkamarkiacs line you made in one post, you don't like Hogan we get the picture, but you want to insult the fanbase that does. Get over yourself. Trust me there is a difference between a fan and a smart mark. I don't claim to know everything about the business and I don't mind arguing with people who think they do.

I gave an opinion as to why I thought somebody was not a "good" wrestler. Period. Same as I'm sure you have, same as others do. It doesn't always matter if you do it or if you're watching it, you form an opinion. It's called life and human nature. You should not be posting or writing anywhere if you don't have an opinion, and based on your twisted logic there's no way you could have an opinion on anybody that was even briefly a professional wrestler. It's hilarious that you think just because I had an opinion on a topic on a discussion board all of a sudden I "think I know everything about the business". And it's equally hilarious that you sit there and condemn people that don't work in the business for not knowing everything and then take the position that you know more than others even though you said you haven't even worked in the business. Simply put, you contradict your own points and sound ignorant beyond belief.

Yeah maybe you and I can walk the rest of the 12 steps together there jerky. Because I got a feeling you're sharing some of the same symptoms.

Wow. Ingenious. (And since you're obviously very slow, I'll make sure to note that was sarcasm.)

Well why shouldn't I direct it back at you after all you started with me, you were obviously a lot more bothered by what I said than he was, but all the power to ya if you want to be as big of a hypocrite as I am. All the power to ya.

Good Lord, dude, if you can't use simple common sense by now then I think there's no way you ever will. When you get through puberty and mature somewhat maybe you can take another crack at a little thing called simple logic. Just wow. I'm amazed at what comes out of that thing you call a brain.

 

[TheHitMark-SirJoseOle]

This coming from the guy that couldn't handle a simple observation about his post and somebody else's opinion. You really cannot be this stupid, can you? You are only supporting my initial observation, not "arguing" anything. You are really a blind fool, and I feel sorry for you.

Again, it's opinion genius. I don't agree, I stated my opinion, you just got pissy when others' opinions didn't match yours. Get a life, bro, really. And could've ignored you? Like you could've ignored bashing people and just made your post? Laughable and sad, just like the fact that you complain about me being "abrasive" and then say that's what you are and people should get over it. You doing what you say others need to do would make more sense.

Saying you fail is saying that you are the epitome of a jerk? Please explain this backwards logic. I would love to hear that one?

You respect nothing. The only thing you like are your own words and think they make sense.

First off, I told you I had. You keep ignoring points and just throw things out either at random or repetitiously. You really need to read and think before you speak. And again, it's funny that you condemn people for supposedly not knowing what it's like to participate in the business, yet you admit yourself you have not. Do you seriously not see how you come across? You talk like you know, admit you don't, then bash somebody for allegedly not knowing something you yourself do not know? Did you follow along there? Can you explain your ignorant logic?

Let's see, practice what you preach and don't complain if somebody does what you say is perfectly fine when you do it. Bitch about somebody else having some kind of "standards" and then repeatedly mention your own "standards". Good grief, I cannot believe the level of some people's thinking...

I'm waiting for the light bulb to go off over your head and realize how ******ed you sound. So far it hasn't happened.

Hmmm, laughing at my replies when you reply yourself. You reek of hypocrisy and muddled thinking. Nice attempt at playing things off but you are simply transparent.

Just keep re-hashing what I say like you came up with it yourself. Waiting for some originality on your end other than changing somebody's post around. On second thought, I don't think I want to wait for that originality, I'll be waiting forever.

I gave an opinion as to why I thought somebody was not a "good" wrestler. Period. Same as I'm sure you have, same as others do. It doesn't always matter if you do it or if you're watching it, you form an opinion. It's called life and human nature. You should not be posting or writing anywhere if you don't have an opinion, and based on your twisted logic there's no way you could have an opinion on anybody that was even briefly a professional wrestler. It's hilarious that you think just because I had an opinion on a topic on a discussion board all of a sudden I "think I know everything about the business". And it's equally hilarious that you sit there and condemn people that don't work in the business for not knowing everything and then take the position that you know more than others even though you said you haven't even worked in the business. Simply put, you contradict your own points and sound ignorant beyond belief.


Wow. Ingenious. (And since you're obviously very slow, I'll make sure to note that was sarcasm.)

Good Lord, dude, if you can't use simple common sense by now then I think there's no way you ever will. When you get through puberty and mature somewhat maybe you can take another crack at a little thing called simple logic. Just wow. I'm amazed at what comes out of that thing you call a brain.

This is so amazing, I can't believe you are still on this kick, you seriously want to keep this issue going that's fine by me. Again, it's redundant on my part and I've overstated this already, but with a moron like you it's just too hard to pass up, but you seriously are no one to talk period. You really are the pot calling the kettle black. Obviously there are bigger issues on your own plate that you should resolve before going so far as to perpetuate this point.

This line from you says it all "Hmmm, laughing at my replies when you reply yourself. You reek of hypocrisy and muddled thinking. Nice attempt at playing things off but you are simply transparent."

Yeah, I know I've been replying and I got no issue with you replying back to me and "calling me out" like you've so eloquently said you've been doing. But please for god's sake man, how are you any better? I mean if you want to talk about ignoring points and having muddled thinking, you seriously need to resolve your own issues before you try accusing anyone else of having them.

But at the same time why should I have to cave in and tolerate your idiocy on this forum. Like I said before and I stand by it, but you obviously have a bigger issue with this thread and the comments made on it than the OP ever did and that should say something. Because if you really wanted to make a point and resolve this issue with me, you could have at any time posted a PM to me and explained why you're so inflamed and upset about my comments.

But it's obvious you want to make this a public argument and right now I have no issue with calling you right back out on being no better than the people you love to lambaste. And you can think all you want about me contradicting my own points, I merely call it living and learning.

I'd say worry about your own conduct and not how other people conduct themselves on the forums, it would benefit you a lot more in the long run. Again, I could see if you were the one that started this thread, but you weren't and get over the fact that not everyone agreed with the OP and I think he said it best when he said this "thread went to the dogs".

Anyway, please keep those hits coming UltimateHitman, if you were any better, you'd have ignored me by now. Plain and simple, but don't worry buddy, you keep feeding yourself your own BS, someday you'll finally be able to believe it.

 

[UltimateHitman]

Honestly, I'm not going to even quote you, because I already responded to these same comments posts ago. Dude, you really do need help. You keep ignoring questions, you keep avoiding subjects, and you keep re-hashing and stealing my comments. I really hope you get over whatever it is you have and pray that your own convoluted mind clears up some day. I'll paste what I put in my PM to you because it re-iterates nicely.
"You couldn't let it go when I simply pointed out I made an observation, then complain about me responding to you. That's funny. Then you go on to call me a know it all when, unlike you, I have not come out and said "blah blah blah, I bash you because you're a know it all", then turn around and say "I'm right and you're wrong" when it comes to people's opinion. I said it in one of my posts, if you knew how to read, that my opinion's right for me, your opinion's right for you. Yet you keep bitching about how you are so right even though you say people that have not been in the biz don't know anything. So, since you have not been in the biz, and you yourself said people that have not been in the biz lack credibility and their opinions don't matter, you just admitted your credibility is zero and your own opinion is worthless. Yet you still persist in talking down to others when, even in your own words, your opinion doesn't matter."
That sums it up pretty well. You call people know it all when you are the one saying "I'm right, you're wrong" when it comes to opinions. You bitch about me responding to you, yet you respond in kind. You have not made any logical or coherent "arguments" this entire time, and I honestly hoped you would realize how ridiculous you sounded. However, I can plainly see that you are lacking so much intellectual efficiency that you will sadly never realize it. If you can't follow common logic then that is apparently a problem you will always have until your last breath on this earth. I can always hope for a miracle, but I'm sure God also realizes that a miracle of that magnitude would be a waste of effort and ultimately futile in the long run.

 

[TheHitMark-SirJoseOle]

...However, I can plainly see that you are lacking so much intellectual efficiency that you will sadly never realize it. If you can't follow common logic then that is apparently a problem you will always have until your last breath on this earth. I can always hope for a miracle, but I'm sure God also realizes that a miracle of that magnitude would be a waste of effort and ultimately futile in the long run.

I'm truncated your previous quote as the "..." should tell you, just showing that I'm looking out for the integrity of the tripe you just wrote although I am not sure you deserve that regard. After all you never showed it to me in the first place. But that's fine, just makes you look like a bigger idiot.

Wow, man, talking about this point is such an issue for me that I'll approach other issues the same way till the time comes where I face my own and of course inevitable mortality like we all have to at some point. I'm very touched though that you are praying for me to see the light. It means a lot to have you rooting for me deep down inside. When you don't waste your time posting replies to my "stupidity" what do you do, moonlight as a priest hoping for the salvation of wayward souls who lack logic? If so, let me just ask you "Dear Father" to forgive me for my sins all of them, including the past, present and future that I'm sure to commit.

My god dude, are you that self-righteous that you find yourself that intent to keep calling me out on a public forum. Again man, you started this, if what I said was such an issue to the OP he'd have said something right to me. You took it upon yourself (and not that I care, it's your right to post in here of course) to get involved in the thread. Then when I took exception to how you challenged the post that I disagreed with the OP on, you have been a part of the tempo that was set with this constant bickering between the two of us.

I mean I have no problem admitting my part in this stupidity, it just seems that you can't come to terms with your role in it.

 

[MancMark]

Come on, get a room the pair of you. The sexual tension in here is killing me.

On topic, the Tank Abbott gimmick could have been a good idea. A tough no-nonsense bastard walks in, destroys people, looks legit and picks up heat. He's knocking people out left right and centre. A background in actual fighting makes the guy look real. Then the ideal thing to do with him is make him feud with Goldberg, build it up and then have Goldberg go over him on PPV. This in turn makes Goldberg look legit (at least for a few years until Jericho face locks him to death) and pushes him on to maybe another title, God help us all. Unfortunately, Tank was fuckin' awful and it never worked. Wrong guy. Good look, no ability. Good gimmick, bad wrestler.

 

[TheHitMark-SirJoseOle]

Come on, get a room the pair of you. The sexual tension in here is killing me.

On topic, the Tank Abbott gimmick could have been a good idea. A tough no-nonsense bastard walks in, destroys people, looks legit and picks up heat. He's knocking people out left right and centre. A background in actual fighting makes the guy look real. Then the ideal thing to do with him is make him feud with Goldberg, build it up and then have Goldberg go over him on PPV. This in turn makes Goldberg look legit (at least for a few years until Jericho face locks him to death) and pushes him on to maybe another title, God help us all. Unfortunately, Tank was fuckin' awful and it never worked. Wrong guy. Good look, no ability. Good gimmick, bad wrestler.

Buddy, I couldn't agree more with you here, I guess I just have so much appeal that UltimateHitman can't resist the banter with me, while my admission of being just as big an idiot as he is does not justify this constant tit for tat, it should at least say something about me, that I'm more than willing to admit my dumbassery in this scenario.

However, UltimateHitman can't do the same. He's playing the cyber version of pulling the pig tails and me, well I'm just a stubborn idiot at times, can't lie about that one, that's bad on me.

But to get back on topic MancMark, Tank Abbott is a good selection for the Good Gimmick-Bad Wrestler. The guy did not even appear to try at all in any of his matches that he had in WCW, and I think I even heard something about Vince Russo wanting to give him the WCW World Title at one point, I can't confirm that being true or not of course, but I have heard something about it.

Anyway, thanks for bringing some logic back to this topic! I know I sure as hell have dropped the ball and as far as UltimateHitman goes, his postings should speak for themselves.

 

[MancMark]

Apparently Russo wanted to give Tank the strap at Souled Out. Russo was thus released and I forget who was given the title. This isn't necessarily true though, as you say it could just be rumour. I think Bret was injured then, and they were desperate for a champion.

As for Tank not trying, you're right. He wouldn't sell shit.