Ghosts of MMA Past

[Mighty NorCal]

I often find myself lamenting the arrival of mainstream popular MMA that we know today as having shown up too late for some guys who may or may not have been truly great.

I want to know from you guys whom are far more knowledgable than me, what pro wrestlers and MMA legends do you think could be great MMA fighters in this day and age?

What if Brock Lesnar had gone straight from Ameatuer wrestling into MMA training?

Would Ken Shamrock and Royce Gracie convert to be top guys in the game as it stands? Dan Severn and Bas Rutten?

I feel like BOTH Steiner Brothers, Dr.Death Steve Williams, Haku/Meng, The Brisco Brothers (the first ones, not the ROH ones, lulz) and especially....

Kurt Fuckin' Angle (who I will remind you, won the Olympics with a broken fuckin' neck)

What do you guys think? Legends of yesteryear, and guys who went into pro wrestling who would have followed a different path, had it existed....

 

[jmt225]

I don't think people appreciate just how much of a bad ass Rick Steiner was. Scott was the really flashy one, and he was the one who had a memorable singles run once he and Rick split as a tag team, so when the Steiners are brought up, Scott gets most of the praise.

However, Rick was a bad motherfucker. He was the one to really kick ass at Michigan, not Scott. And during his pro wrestling career, when you watched Rick toss around guys like it was nothing, it was truly something to behold. He didn't have the gigantic muscles like Scott did. I mean, sure, he had muscles, but you can tell all his suplexes and shit like that came from technique and a natural core strength.

I firmly believe a prime Rick Steiner would kick anyone in pro wrestling history's ass in a shoot fight, including Lesnar. I think that highly of him.

Shelton Benjamin is another guy whose amateur background has been much ignored. You look at his wrestling accomplishments in college, and then you see what kind of natural athlete he is/was, plus his size... there's no doubt he would have been a true beast in MMA if he had made that his career choice.

As far as older MMA guys... prime Fedor with today's camps and training felicities would be the #1 Heavyweight in the World right now, just as he was 10 years ago. He's the first guy that comes to mind. Matt Hughes is the other one. You get a prime Hughes in MMA right now with today's camps and felicities, he's even a much scarier monster today than he was in 2004. Frank Shamrock too I suppose would have done well, maybe, but I'm not certain with him like I am Fedor and Hughes.

Ken Shamrock, Dan Severn, Don Frye (who I love), the Gracies, Tank Abbott... I don't think any of those guys who would been able to make much of themselves in what MMA has progressed to in 2015.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Rick, indeed, was a bad motherfucker, and any shoot you hear were anyone is talking about him, he is known as one of the baddest, legit strong individuals ever.


Breaks my heart hearing that about Shamrock, but I trust your judgement. Dude was like a real life action hero to 11 year old me.

 

[ShinobiMusashi]

Would Ken Shamrock and Royce Gracie convert to be top guys in the game as it stands? Dan Severn and Bas Rutten

Tough question really. I personally think that the true legends are going to be great in any era. Prime Frank Shamrock for example was just as good as anyone in the game today and would probably be even better with modern training and resources. That first wave of fighters had no network of training like what is here now. Ken Shamrock for example, his Lions Den was the first real MMA gym ever in the US, there was nowhere else for him to go train here, he learned how to submit from Japanese pro wrestlers. Ken Shamrock had to pioneer his own trail, basically paving the way for the system you see today.

Then there is the context of the rules and the drug testing. I have a hard time believing that any modern day fighter would just run through a prime Mark Coleman with the old rules that allowed headbutts and knees on the ground, same with Dan Severn in his prime circa UFC V. Don Frye in his prime was tough as a rattlesnake and as for Ken Shamrock when he was at his peak as a heavyweight he was a legit freak on the mats, insanely dynamic and fast, I would put those guys in any era, and with Royce Gracie in a true fight with no time limits and no rules whatsoever the same applies, anyone from any era will struggle to beat him in that setting imo. It's all about context.

 

[INDYjon22]

Vladimir Kozlov was always an interesting guy to me. He is legit trained in sambo, kickboxing, jujitsu, and freestyle wrestling. He's fairly athletic for a big guy and I always got the vibe that he was truly one of the baddest dudes in WWE while he was there, don't let the time with Santino fool you. If he would have concentrated on MMA, instead of wrestling I believe he would have had a solid career. Maybe not championship caliber, but some fun fights, especially in Japan.

Sean O'Haire was another guy I loved in WWE who was also a bad man. He transitioned into MMA for a short period, with mixed results. His size and athleticism was truly remarkable. He's another guy that I believe if he would have gotten into MMA earlier in his life, instead of wrestling, he could have had a good career. Plus, he was such a freak of nature both physically and personality wise that I think he could have made a run at being a household name, unlike a guy like Kozlov who lacked personality. O'Haire boasted a winning record in MMA. The one thing that would worry me would be his cardio, seeing as he never had a fight go past the first round. But, with a good trainer and camp who knows.

 

[ArcherCC]

Royce I don't think would have been anywhere near as dominate if he came into MMA in his prime in the modern era. It's not that I don't like Royce, or anything but the Gracie family have always had the problem of refusing to cross train, they believe Gracie JJ is ALL you need to dominate in MMA, and back when it was in it's infancy that was true, now it isn't.

I love Brock, I wish he would have come to MMA earlier, for the single fact of if he had he would have been king for much longer/ Coming in at the point he did he could build his own gym and fill it with yes men, which is why his striking suffered / didn't exist. If MMA had been as big as it is now when he left college he could have started training straight away, with no money so he would have had to learn how coaches taught, rather then how he wanted.

Kurt Angle is an excellent example of a talent who would have done amazing things in MMA, he is one you really don't even need to go into specifics, the man is an athletic power house.

Coleman & Randleman I honestly think would tank if they came into MMA today, their style of fighting is banned in the rules, and while at the time they were athletic freaks these days there are dozens of fighters in each weight class just as athletic if not more. Just remember when watching them in their prime they were the elite due to their skills & athleticism but those wouldn't hold up today.