General WWE Complaining & PG Rating Thread

[EGfan4life]

First of all. None of the matches were boring. Second of all. Shut your mouth.

There is nothing you can do to change whatever happens, so why bitch about it? Seriously dude, when Edge did it twice, I didn't hear everyone crying about how Edge stole the title. They started calling him the "Ultimate opportunist." So you need to gather your thoughts before you post a stupid thread like this.

Why don't you move out of your mom's basement already.

Anyways, CM Punk winning the title again is awesome!

 

[Nate DaMac]

Meh. I always liked the MITB, it elevated Edge into main event status, it gave RVD his first world title win in WWE and now its elevating CM Punk into main event status. And this is the first time I've seen it used to help orchestrate a heel turn (I think )so now I'm really intrigued. I was a little dissappointed though. I was hoping for a decent world title reign for Hardy. But congratulations WWE. After about 3 months of pure shit, you have gained my interest once again.

 

[HATECHOIR]

I know were all watching "Sports entertainment" and its all pre-determined and far from reality but alot of the GREAT storylines were ones that imitate reality or come close the whole MIITB thing i mean truth be known if they could REALLY cash in the MIITB ANYtime...

We ALL know that on that night at the end of the Wrestlemania main event somebody would be getting there title taken, if i was writing it id throw a swerve on the BIGGEST night of the year..Wrestlemania, id have the MIITB winner that night cash that shit in right after the 2 main event participants entered the ring and make this hugely anticipated main event a surprise triple threat match with MIITB winner taking the title, you would have the shock of him cashing in minutes after he won, the suprise main event becoming a triple threat, and the WOW factor on RAW the next night when people who didnt get the ppv tune in and see said person holding the WWE title when he wasnt even supposed to be in the main event. Nothing makes a fan say "Damn i should have ordered that ppv more than that...lol!

Thats just how i would do it but im not an over-payed under-talented WWE writer so what do i know right?


where are u?

 

[Zeedeevel]

It seems that people in this thread want to compare Edge to Punk because they cashed it in the same way but honestly its not a fair thing to do. With Edge it fit his character as a heel to pick the bones after a match that had already taken place. With Punk however it makes zero sense to do that.(unless he is turning heel then only the first time didnt make sense) I believe that a big part of Punk's character is that the only addiction he needs is competition, well where is the competition in pinning someone after a beatdown or a ladder match. If you can remember there was only 1 other face that had MITB and he cashed it in by having a real match and being straight about it. Now before some Punk lover comes in to say how wrong I am or something, although I can't stand the guy, this is not an anti punk post. This is simply an opinion that if a heel wins it then cashing it in the cheap way is ok but if a face wins it then it should be a real match.

 

[x_JL_x]

Personally, I love the way it played out. Oddly enough, I laid this scenario out in a post a week o two ago, i'm kinda shocked to it come to fruition.

I knew i read that somewhere. When i was reading the results of the PPV i was like "man, somebody called that shit perfect!" lol

Anyways, to the original poster, let's cut the BS. The beef you have obviously isn't with the MITB, it's with Punk being champion. And for whatever reason you hate Punk. I say "whatever reason" cause for the life of me i can't understand that, Punk is awesome. And as he's seemingly about to turn heel, he'll be even more awesome. Can't wait really.

As for saying this cash in was cheap, i don't agree. I would say it's fairly obvious they're giving that heel turn now, and this is an excellent way to do it. Especially when he "cheated" such a crowd favorite as Hardy. I dont think Punk's first cash in was cheap either. I mean what was so cheap about it? Punk has had that character that likes to sometimes mock and poke fun at people. I thought it was very fitting that he cashed it in on Edge the same way Edge had won before. Giving him a taste of his own medicine (i think Edge is awesome too, so that's not a jab at him). As far as the whole "heels can cash in cheaply, but faces should have matches" argument: really? I mean think about it, nobody in their right mind would do it "proper". Heel or face. Think of it this way, if you had a guaranteed opportunity to compete for a "prize", and said "prize" was the most important thing in the world to you. You just HAVE to have it. When it comes that time to cash in, whether you're a good guy or bad guy, when are you really going to cash that in? You're going to do it when you feel you have the best opportunity to obtain this Holy Grail you have sought after (ie after they've got the shit kicked out of them).

I, for one, am psyched about Smackdown now. Punk as champion, seemingly going on a heel turn. The talent they have over there.

 

[Louie Lips]

I agree. MITB is a good concept to win the opportunity for a World Title Match, but not anytime you want. It is basically a ticket saying "attack the world champ after a tough match to win the title". The only honorable winner was RVD who chose a date for the match, and told his opponent beforehand, as opposed to running in after a grueling match.

 

[HBK-aholic]

I love how we're all acting as if there's some great prestige to the World Title belts. There isn't. They're props for a TV show, nothing more. How can that be 'cheap'? It already is meaningless. The MITB is a good idea, it's a bit of fun. The Champion will rarely be seen as credible, and as long as WWE keep that in mind there shouldn't be a problem. Punk is no where near the worst person to hold the title, and while I dislike the way he's booked as only being able to win it this way, there's worse that could happen.

 

[AndarielHalo]

The idea that MITB can be used to push an upcoming star is hilarious if it weren't so serious. The only "upcoming stars" it has pushes is EDGE like three times, and CM Punk twice, and CM Punk is way overdue for being an "upcoming star". His MITB cash-in was nothing but a failure worse than Rey Mysterio's title run. And now you're glad to see him do it AGAIN?

The only way I'll believe MITB can push new upcomign stars is if friggin FINLAY or SHELTON BENJAMIN or some midcarder-for-life wins it, cashes it in, and wins the title for a solidly booked, lengthy reign. The storyline would be excellent in the hands of anyone but a WWE or TNA writer---new guy is championship material, all the big boys welcome him to their club... then proceed to try to take the title from him in matches. He barely gets away with his skill and wit and luck, winning matches against established superstars in such a way that the established superstar still looks strong, but is still clearly defeated. The midcard champion starts experiencing a sort of "culture shock" in his newfound position as main event player that everyone wants to kill (in the ring). Managers start lobbying to manage him, and he has to use his wits to skirt the exploiters and those who are working with his foes to try to weaken him, he has to resist the flirtations of divas who are hired to slow him down and such, that sort of thing.

The ultimate irony and tragedy would be that this champion would lose his championship to ANOTHER money in the bank winner, perhaps in exactly the same scenario as he won it first.


Another fun idea would be a MITB backfire. Someone cashes in their money in the bank, and LOSES. That would really legitimize the MITB as something that is never a guarantee, and that cashing it in at the end of matches to steal the title is never foolproof.

Thus far, I think Rob Van Dam's cash-in was one of the best, for the reasons that 1) He gave his challenger ample time beforehand to prepare, 2) He was a midcarder-for-life with seemingly absolutely no shot anywhere near the WWE main event scene, 3) He beat SUPERMAN Cena during the era of his "exalted one" status, 4) They nearly screwed his win up with Edge interfering, but Cena STILL fought back and Rob Van Dam still beat him himself (but no one complained when Goldberg interfered with Eddie Guerrero's first WWE championship win, did they?)



Also, I really think that Star Trek: The Voyage Home was one of the best Star Trek movies. It really has no war in it, nor any major dramatic conflicts that don't have humor in it, but it's still just great, somehow. Far better than that porn movie "This Ain't Star Trek"

 

[Ambiguous Turd]

I can't stand it anymore. I find it really cheap that you can cash in the breifcase after a match. So unfair. I can't stand how people like CM Punk. I find him to be so boring and a shit champion. Al because of that briefcase, he has won 2 world titles! Does creative not believe that he could put a fair match on to win a title?

The MITB is such a cheap way to win a championship. Its meaningless.
Discuss

I am actually in full agreement with you. Yeah, it's done for "shock value" for whenever the person cashes it in ... but the "shock value" of it all has been somewhat diminished since it obviously now has become a guarantee that whoever wins the briefcase will be the next champion. They have never once had the winner of the briefcase actually lose the match.

But if WWE wants to continue its realistic kick that it has been on for the past couple years, and they want to continue doing MITB, then they really need to redo the program so that a specific date is announced for the cash-in. Then, as mentioned, actually have the person lose once in a while, as well.

If WWE wants to now present its product as "realistic", then they need to do just that.

 

[NMcQ]

rite...money in the bank is a great match....but no1 should win it 2 years in a row....someone else should have won it at wrestlemania....like christian or kofi kingston...someone who is actually entertaining....

CM PUNK IS SO BORIN AND USELESS....WWE'S WORST DECISION YET

 

[StInGeR-HBK]

The rules state the holder can cash it in whenever he wants. Right after a grueling match is part of when ever

and i find him to be entertaining and a good champion. Yay i have an opinion too.

So has Edge but I don't hear you bitching about him. That briefcase launched his Main Event Career. Without it Edge would not be where he is today Also it would have been the start of RVD in the Main Event as well

How is it meaningless? It has launched 3 superstars into the Main Event one of which is perhaps the best heel right now in the WWE, 2 of which have won multiple titles using the MITB case.


There is nothing wrong with MITB you're just complaining because CM punk is World Champion

LMAO!!! I have to agree with this guy 100%! It's not about the MITB it's about CM Punk. Cuz he's just doin exactly what Edge did but I don't hear any complains so far. It's a perfect way to launch CM Punk back into the main event scene and turn Punk heel. I really do hope that WWE uses this to really push Punk. I really haven't seen Punk as a heel like a lot of the rest of the guys here but just from the way people describe him, I can't wait to see it. I absolutely love Punk and from what I've seen, I think he can be a great champion and really push this company into the future!

 

[Blade]

I can't stand it anymore.

What exactly can't you stand? The excitement of when the case holder decides to cash in? Having a fresh champion? I don't get it.

I find it really cheap that you can cash in the breifcase after a match.

It's genius, actually. I feel it's a kayfabe situation where Punk didn't want to wait, and he'd have plenty of time to prove himself that he doesn't just get cheap wins when he's champ.

So unfair.

Not really. Punk had a match earlier than night to remember? Remember when he got beaten up by Umaga for ten minutes, hmm? Remember that?
And it's not Punk's fault that Hardy kicks the shit out of himself as well as his opponent to win the match.

I can't stand how people like CM Punk. I find him to be so boring and a shit champion.

I find him very entertaining. His strap match was superbly executed. And we'll see what he's like as a champion when creative decide to book him properly.

Al because of that briefcase, he has won 2 world titles! Does creative not believe that he could put a fair match on to win a title?

Since when does winning the title make you a credible champion?
You become a credible champion when you can hang on to the belt.

The MITB is such a cheap way to win a championship.

It's an exciting way to win the championship. It gives people great a great memory and gives that extra "bang for your buck" when you buy a PPV.

Its meaningless.

Money in the Bank would only be meaningless if the world titles were meaningless. But they're not, so it's not.

Discuss

I believe I just discussed the hell out of it. Feel free to write a rebuttal.

 

[ipswichicon80]

I feel that the next winner of MITB should cash in after the main event at that years mania!Think about it give to to someone like Carlito or John Morrison and you give them the experience of a main event slot at mania but your not releying on them to sell PPV buys, shock the fans and instantly create a headliner! Any thoughts people?

 

[D-Man]

I am actually in full agreement with you. Yeah, it's done for "shock value" for whenever the person cashes it in ... but the "shock value" of it all has been somewhat diminished since it obviously now has become a guarantee that whoever wins the briefcase will be the next champion. They have never once had the winner of the briefcase actually lose the match.

But if WWE wants to continue its realistic kick that it has been on for the past couple years, and they want to continue doing MITB, then they really need to redo the program so that a specific date is announced for the cash-in. Then, as mentioned, actually have the person lose once in a while, as well.

If WWE wants to now present its product as "realistic", then they need to do just that.

Sidious, with all due respect because you're a killer poster, I couldn't disagree with you more.

Over and over and over again the professional wrestling audience has been begging for surprises and unpredictability. Well, now that we have it, you're all STILL complaining. The MITB ladder match (IMO) has been the most innovative, exciting, and intriguing way to entertain all of the fans for MANY reasons...

It all begins with an exciting, violent, spot-happy, fan-craved gimmick match at the biggest show of the year... Wrestlemania.
The WWE answered all of your calls for more ladder matches. Not only did they answer it, but they threw 6 guys into it! And, by throwing 6 guys into it, this reduces the chance that some of your favorite upcoming stars will get injured while providing you with non-stop excitement.

It keeps the wrestling fans on their toes.
We've seen that a cash-in can happen on ANY show. So far, it's happened on Smackdown, Raw, AND a PPV. For everyone that can't stand when storylines leak on the internet (myself included), we can all still be surprised when a cash-in occurs because it doesn't need to be done with a week in advance. Hell, if Vince wants someone to cash in the MITB at the last minute, it wouldn't take many changes in the production of his show to put it together, thereby eliminating the chance of an internet leak. Also, when all of you NEVER thought Jeff Hardy would win the title last night because of his contract disputes, he did. Technically, he's a two-time champion now LOL!! And, not only were you surprised when he won, but I'm sure most of your hearts skipped a beat when Punk's music hit and he charged the ring. How much more unpredictability do you need?!?

It elevates new stars.
Edge (arguably) would be NOTHING without his MITB cash-in against the Undertaker on Smackdown. CM Punk's popularity jumped about 20 notches when he cashed in against Edge on Raw and now he just won it from Jeff Hardy. And this is only the THIRD year that the MITB match has existed! There are many other stars that can be built and elevated in the snap of a finger just by winning the MITB batch at Wrestlemania. It brings SO MUCH importance to the match and gives all of you yet another reason why you should purchase the PPV each year!

It provides compelling storylines.
I think we just learned about this last night. This could potantially be a BIG heel turn for CM Punk. And none of you saw it coming. And I'm willing to bet that if his heel status sticks, he's going to be hated as much as Edge. Most of the time, it takes the WWE MONTHS to heel turn a babyface of Punk's caliber. By utilizing the MITB ladder match, they did it in ONE NIGHT!


Now, many of you think the winner of the MITB match is a sure-fire future title holder and you have all very good reasoning to think that way. But remember, this is only the FIFTH year this has been running. Despite what most of you think, the WWE isn't stupid. I'm sure they will find a way to change this up down the road.

Edit: Thanks to Chihawks Rock for pointing out my mistake about how many years MITB has been running!

 

[AndarielHalo]

It keeps the wrestling fans on their toes.

No it doesn't. It basically makes us anticipate it any time a world champion has been beaten up in the ring, be it after a main event match, or in the case of Edge, when he randomly appears on Raw for no reason, then gets obliternihilated by Batista.

It elevates new stars.

Edge is not "new". And at this point in time, neither is CM Punk. The first time he did, yes. But a repeat of last year is just too soon. Rob Van Dam was already an established star, but a midcarder-for-life in the WWE.

It provides compelling storylines.

You're right; that whole dealy of JBL questioning whether CM Punk was a fluke champion---and then CM Punk really turning out to be a fluke champion---that was so completely compelling and totally not the complete opposite of compelling. Oh wait, yes it was! It was a burial the likes not seen since the last burial. And while Edge vs Cena was fun the first few times, Edge vs Cena for the second year in a row, eighth match in a row, ceased to be "compelling".

This could potantially be a BIG heel turn for CM Punk

Since I didn't see the PPV, I can't tell, but nothing about its execution in sound seems to me very heelish. Rob Van Dam didn't turn heel when he cashed on John Cena. It's not like Punk came out with Vince McMahon to help him, or smashed Jeff Hardy half dead with all manner of weapons. I do not forsee a heel turn from this.

 

[CH David]

Now, many of you think the winner of the MITB match is a sure-fire future title holder and you have all very good reasoning to think that way. But remember, this is only the THIRD year this has been running. Despite what most of you think, the WWE isn't stupid. I'm sure they will find a way to change this up down the road.

D-Man, I hate to be a prick, because I am still kind of new and I think you are a very good poster, and I know you are trying to prove a point. But it has been going for 5 years. I think what you may have been trying to hit on was the 8 man MiTB has gone for three years.

Anyway, to the poster of this thread, MiTB is exciting, and a way to keep the guy who wins it in a certain light. Every time you see the winner, you wonder if he is going to attack the champ and take the title. Shock value yes, but it did wonders for Edge's career, he is one of the best heels in the company, or was, i don't know if he is now going to be a tweener or face or what.

When it comes to Punk, I see where everyone was coming with the complaints of "What the hell, he won two years in a row? Ahh go to hell Punk, Christian or Morrison should have won it" and I wouldn't have minded seeing either of those two win as well. Punk is a very entertaining guy, whether it be his promos from indy's as WWE hasn't let him talk a whole lot lately, or in his matches. He is a very consistent guy in the ring, and if this truly does turn to a heel turn and feud with Hardy, it could push Punk that much further into the sky.

As for Punk winning two years in a row, I have a theory, and it may be either really good, or it may be crap. Throughout WZ I haven't seen people with this idea, so it is a new theory or it is just a coincidence. BUT, most of us know that Jeff was supposed to win MiTB last year, but he got suspended and all that stuff. Punk was the guy they felt could be over with the people, so they gave it to him. Then they had the shock value of taking the title from Edge, and then Creative gave him a shit run and he sank. So my theory is that they realized they screwed up with Punk, and either he was meant to win this year or they gave it to him for having screwed him. Some of you may think, oh but he was IC champ and a tag champ too. Big deal, they didn't really do anything other than make Punk a Triple Crown champ in a year span. I barely remember his IC run, and I don't even remember his tag title run. So they gave it to him maybe thinking we screwed him and we are going to try and give him a proper run, or maybe Creative was just too lazy to change who would win this years MiTB. Maybe he is finally going to turn heel, as he is much better that way. Just my 2 cents.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

No it doesn't. It basically makes us anticipate it any time a world champion has been beaten up in the ring, be it after a main event match, or in the case of Edge, when he randomly appears on Raw for no reason, then gets obliternihilated by Batista.

That still acts as a surprise. It absolutely keeps people on their toes. When I was at the Smackdown show @ MSG a few weeks back and Punk beat Edge (clean) in a non-title match, and then teased the cash-in, MSG went absolutely WILD.

Edge is not "new". And at this point in time, neither is CM Punk. The first time he did, yes. But a repeat of last year is just too soon. Rob Van Dam was already an established star, but a midcarder-for-life in the WWE.

Edge was a new champion when he won his first MITB. So was Punk. In both cases (no pun intended) a new star was created with the MITB matches. Kennedy would have been too had he not blown it.

You're right; that whole dealy of JBL questioning whether CM Punk was a fluke champion---and then CM Punk really turning out to be a fluke champion---that was so completely compelling and totally not the complete opposite of compelling. Oh wait, yes it was! It was a burial the likes not seen since the last burial. And while Edge vs Cena was fun the first few times, Edge vs Cena for the second year in a row, eighth match in a row, ceased to be "compelling".

Which is why MITB is so important - it makes these matches more compelling. That's also why the draft is in place.

Also, why do I need to remind people that CM Punk is also a former ECW World Champion, and his title reign on ECW was damn sure no fluke. He's a 3-time World Champion.

Since I didn't see the PPV, I can't tell, but nothing about its execution in sound seems to me very heelish. Rob Van Dam didn't turn heel when he cashed on John Cena. It's not like Punk came out with Vince McMahon to help him, or smashed Jeff Hardy half dead with all manner of weapons. I do not forsee a heel turn from this.

AWESOME. I love that these hardlined opinions are coming from someone who didn't even watch the PPV.

RVD didn't come off as a heel when he cashed in on Cena because he cashed it in face to face and gave Cena a month's notice.

Punk was being boo'ed by half the crowd last night because they wanted it to be Hardy's moment, and Punk took that away from them.

 

[ROHDude]

All around I think MITB has just lost its luster. I dont know about CM Punk, his last reign was just sad, and there are ideas of a heel turn. I think its about time that WWE had a MITB winner lose the match. As it is right now, everytime the MITB holders music hits, there is a 5 second shock factor. After that, its nothing but predictability.

The only way someone will lose the MITB title shot is if the Champion gets a flash rollup pin like Hardy attempted last night.

You can cash in the MITB anytime you want, so it makes way too much sense to cash it in after the champions been through a grueling match, so odds are that's how it will always be.

 

[D-Man]

No it doesn't. It basically makes us anticipate it any time a world champion has been beaten up in the ring, be it after a main event match, or in the case of Edge, when he randomly appears on Raw for no reason, then gets obliternihilated by Batista.

So when you're watching Raw, SD, ECW, or a PPV and you see a compelling match and are sucked into it's result, you aren't shocked when the MITB winner comes out to throw a wrench in the gears? If not, then I guess everyone is entertained by different things and has their own opinion.

Edge is not "new". And at this point in time, neither is CM Punk. The first time he did, yes. But a repeat of last year is just too soon. Rob Van Dam was already an established star, but a midcarder-for-life in the WWE.

Edge isn't new now, but he was a NEW CHAMPION when he won it the first time, setting up a feud with the Undertaker that lasted on and off for over a year. And you're right about CM Punk, but I'm sure that will all change REALLY soon. As for RVD, he would've been a lot more if his personal problems and unreliability hadn't held him back.[/QUOTE]

You're right; that whole dealy of JBL questioning whether CM Punk was a fluke champion---and then CM Punk really turning out to be a fluke champion---that was so completely compelling and totally not the complete opposite of compelling. Oh wait, yes it was! It was a burial the likes not seen since the last burial. And while Edge vs Cena was fun the first few times, Edge vs Cena for the second year in a row, eighth match in a row, ceased to be "compelling".

Where I agree with your opinion about the Cena/Edge feud, I have to disagree about CM Punk. What made him a fluke champion? In reality, he never actually LOST the title. So your statement doesn't hold water. And the storyline with JBL entertained me, so until your opinion makes a difference, you have no leg to stand on when making sarcastic statements like that to me.

Since I didn't see the PPV, I can't tell, but nothing about its execution in sound seems to me very heelish.

The guy took out one of the biggest babyfaces in the company on the NIGHT THAT HE WON THE TITLE. That is bound to piss a few little kiddies off...

Rob Van Dam didn't turn heel when he cashed on John Cena. It's not like Punk came out with Vince McMahon to help him, or smashed Jeff Hardy half dead with all manner of weapons. I do not forsee a heel turn from this.

It was a PPV that was planned WAY in advance. And Cena was borderline heel at the time. Once again, stupid statement.

 

[D-Man]

D-Man, I hate to be a prick, because I am still kind of new and I think you are a very good poster, and I know you are trying to prove a point. But it has been going for 5 years. I think what you may have been trying to hit on was the 8 man MiTB has gone for three years.

No offense taken. Good call... I typed that so fast and messed up big time

I was only thinking about Edge and CM Punk's runs as MITB winners, but I also forgot about RVD, who made a legitimate challenge for the title, and Mr. Kennedy who later on lost the briefcase to Edge.

My bad!!

 

[Chill]

I like the cash in aspect of the MITB, I think the match itself is getting a bit stale now but the concept of the winner being able to cash in any time up to a year is brilliant imo.

I love to see how shocked the live audience is when a cash in happens, when Edge did it to Cena the crowd adored it, and look what winning MITB has done for Edge, the guy hasn't looked back to the mid card since. Although, it would be nice to see someone cash in and not become champion, that way the shock value would remain in tact.

Nevertheless, when Punk cashed in I certainly wasn't expecting it and I'm not so sure what the audience thought but it was a nice suprise and it created the excitement that a lot of people on here complain is missing! I wonder if people will say MITB is such a joke if we get another star the calibre of Edge out of CM Punk?

 

[AndarielHalo]

What made him a fluke champion?

The fluke part being that he wasn't exactly booked to look very strong or worthy against his opponents. Just like his ECW title reign was marked by being squashed by Mark Henry and Big Daddy V, his World title reign was marked by being made to look like a goober.


Then he didn't even lose his championship, but just got backstage jumped by the Stooges (who got regularly asswhomped by SHANE MCMAHON months later) and lost his title without even competing for it. That sounds like a goober to me. This being the same CM Punk who SHOCKED us by RETAINING the ROH Championship on his LAST DAY in ROH, although he got jumped by Christopher Daniels and had it stolen from him, he still looked a hell of a lot stronger as ROH Champion than World Heavyweight Champion.


Not a fanboy "ROH IS BETTAR DEN WWE" thing---just remarking that the WWE booking of him as world champion was terrible and lackluster.

he never actually LOST the title

No, they just took it from him like a goober with the lame excuse of "CODY RHODES AN TED DIBIASE BEAT ME UP" without even letting him defend it or even look like a credible defender.

That is bound to piss a few little kiddies off...

And just because people booed CM Punk cashing on hardy doesn't make him instantly a heel. People boo Cena a whole lot---they booed him mercilessly at Wrestlemania 23. And when Stone Cold Steve Austin went heel at Wrestlemania X7, people were still cheering wildly for him.

It was a PPV that was planned WAY in advance. And Cena was borderline heel at the time.

"Borderline heel"? I may not remember much of those days, but I do remember he wasn't borderline anything---he was full-fledged face. That "borderline heel" bs was the excuse the WWE made up for having people boo him so often---because he was horrifying overexposed.

And quite frankly, I also agree that it wasn't really fair to compare with Cena competing against an ECW superstar at an ECW event, with people unanimously anti-Cena, with a sign saying "If Cena Wins, We Riot", and thinking he could win. But considering how often he beat opponents, I wouldn't put it past the WWE to have Cena beat RVD anyway.

you aren't shocked when the MITB winner comes out to throw a wrench in the gears?

When it happens once, yes. When it happens four or five times, maybe a little. When it happens four or five times, and has been teased to happen for almost an entire month, only to be interrupted by random BS that in reality shouldn't have even been an impediment worth waiting an ENTIRE WEEK to put off and try again, then absolutely NOT.

 

[sTyLnK]

I was actually pretty surprised when Punk came out. If Edge had won and Punk came out the crowd would have gone NUTS, but because Hardy won it really was a mixed reaction from the crowd. Sounds like Punk might turn heel for a while and if that's the case I welcome it. Change is good. A lot of people might be ticked off about the MITB idea, but it's supposed to be unexpected and it just adds more overall.

 

[D-Man]

The fluke part being that he wasn't exactly booked to look very strong or worthy against his opponents. Just like his ECW title reign was marked by being squashed by Mark Henry and Big Daddy V, his World title reign was marked by being made to look like a goober. Then he didn't even lose his championship, but just got backstage jumped by the Stooges (who got regularly asswhomped by SHANE MCMAHON months later) and lost his title without even competing for it. That sounds like a goober to me.

Then what you're saying is he was a WEAK champion and not a FLUKE champion, right? Weak = "Goober"?? Ok then. Now I'm clear because the wrong terms were clearly used there.

This being the same CM Punk who SHOCKED us by RETAINING the ROH Championship on his LAST DAY in ROH, although he got jumped by Christopher Daniels and had it stolen from him, he still looked a hell of a lot stronger as ROH Champion than World Heavyweight Champion.

This has no bearing on anything.

Not a fanboy "ROH IS BETTAR DEN WWE" thing---just remarking that the WWE booking of him as world champion was terrible and lackluster.

Once again, YOUR opinion. I think the WWE did a GREAT job of booking Punk as a champion. He got two world titles in ONE YEAR. And just to keep it legitimate they booked him as more of a babyface opportunist (to contradict Edge's heel opportunist) that wasn't 100% ready to carry the title, and yet they kept him strong in losing it. What' so bad about that?

And just because people booed CM Punk cashing on hardy doesn't make him instantly a heel. People boo Cena a whole lot---they booed him mercilessly at Wrestlemania 23. And when Stone Cold Steve Austin went heel at Wrestlemania X7, people were still cheering wildly for him.

But Cena didn't fuck over one of the top babyfaces of the company on live TV just seconds after he won a title. BIG difference there.

*EDIT* Well, since you edited most of your previous post I guess most of what I just wrote may seem invalid and I don't feel like going back and revising it.

 

[Mustang Sally]

I have no problem with the concept of MITB. There is so little that is new and original in the world of wrestling that I certainly wouldn't put down a novel idea like this one.

On one hand, though, it seems like a better vehicle for a heel to get a title shot than a face. The idea of a guy who hasn't fought that night getting a surprise title opportunity against an exhausted champion doesn't really appeal to me, but it makes sense when a heel such as Edge turns the trick. But if a heel can do it, then a face has to have the same privilege, right?

That said, I wish Punk hadn't gotten a second chance at it. When he won the briefcase, I was hoping that one of two things would happen:

1) He would take his second chance against a champion who hadn't wrestled that night, giving the guy ample notice so that a victory by Punk would seem more equitable and genuine.

Or....

2) Punk would come in against a victorious, but exhausted Jeff Hardy...... and lose the match, which would send Jeff's stock soaring for having won twice in one night.


I have nothing against C.M. Punk, but I hope that this title reign is the last one he will win through MITB.