Foley or Flair?

jtbsoon2b

Future Hall-of-Famer
So I just got done watching Foley's DVD Greatest Hits and Misses the Hardcore Edition and I got to the SS I quit match with Ric WOOOOO Flair. I know who I think is better but I wanna know what everyone else thinks.

Foley is a hardcore legend and will always be. But everytime I watch one of his matches I cant help but see Terry Funk and not Mick Foley. I know Mick has contributed alot to wrestling and he still is doing so but I don't really care for him.

Flair has been described as having no ring psychology what so ever, but I disagree with that. Every person he wrestled in his prime, he made them look better than they did before. He helped inspire HHH and HBK to become pro wrestlers and he will always be talked about as one of, if not the greatest ever. He is still inspiring people to become wrestlers, even if its not directly through him (HHH & HBK)

I give it to Flair without a second thought. How do you feel?
 
Definatley Flair on this one foley was only good in hardcore or stipulation matches not straight up wrestling. Flair did straight up wrestling matches in the majority of his career but also proved in his later career he could do a lot of hardcore matches.
Ex.
Raw:2006 Edge vs Flair TLC match for WWe title

summerslam 2006: foley vs. flair in i quit match

Raw: 2008 flair vs. mr. mcmahon street fight for flairs career

Royal rumble 2004 Batista and Ric flair vs. the dudleys in a tables match for the tag titles

so yes i give it to flair
 
Dude I don't know who told you that crap about Flair, but their an idiot. I am not a huge Flair mark, but I think they guy was great. His job was to make your hometown hero look as good as possible, make the fans believe he was going to win the title, then Flair would win, but the fans thought it was so close they could not wait for the rematch. He did that night in and night out. He also had phenomonal promo's, great in ring mic work, played off the fans very well, could wrestle in my opinion with the best of them during his time, and could even do a good match up to his retirement if you booked him with the right guy, & horsemen are one of the greatest stables of all time. Foley is what Flair said he is and thats a glorified stunt man! He just takes bumbs well. Yea I respect Foley's hardcore matches, but I'm a real wrestling fan. Just because you can fall of a cage or take 12 chair shots to the head does not make me want to cheer or boo you. Especially when you wear it out and do that shit all the time & in every match. This question is not even close FLAIR IS WAY BETTER! I'd still rather see styling & profiling & whooooo today than an overwieght, flannel wearing, can't do an actual wrestling hold, glorified stuntman. Sorry guys but its the truth.
 
Tsk...Tsk...Tsk

Since the general consensus so far is that Foley's a gloried stuntman, let me educate ya'll.

Foley is one of the best to ever come through the WWE. He was great on the mic and he made everybody he worked with better. Let's go through some examples shall we:

Undertaker: When Taker first debuted, he wrestled a very slow and boring style that was painful to watch but that was his character so I'm not hating much on it. When Mankind came, he gave Undertaker some of the best matches the Deadman has ever had. Taker began to wrestle a different style which has evolved over the years thanks to one Mick Foley. If it wasn't for him, who knows where Taker would be right now.

HHH: When he first turned heel, who did Helmsley feud against- Cactus Jack. HHH's best matches ever were against Foley at the Royal Rumble and No Way Out. HHH became more hated because of Foley and some credit goes to Stephanie as well but Foley put him over and HHH became one of the best heels in the past decade.

The Rock: His series of matches with the Rock were absolutely great. This was in the midst of the Rock's heel turn and it made him all the more hateable when he hit Foley with a chair about a dozen times.

Randy Orton: This is arguably one of Orton's best matches ever and much credit should be given to Flair. Orton proved that he was one of the upcoming superstars and proved that he can go in a hardcore environment.


All in all, Foley was one of the greatest workers on the mic, gave passionate promos, and put more guys over who had more success than anybody in the business and is so much more than a glorified stuntman as you call him.
 
Despite being a bigger fan of Foley, i too would have to give it to Flair.

The man had a 35 year career that held out strong despite suffering a broken back in the 70's. He went on to become one of the biggest draws in the history of wrestling, arguably surpassed by Hogan and Hogan only. He's had numerous history making fueds with some of the greatest names professional wrestling has ever seen, and has had a huge impact on the lives of god knows how many up and coming pro wrestlers. He may have been a terrible booker, as some, including Foley have stated, but that's not going to effect anyone's views of Flair the wrestler.

Foley has also had a storied career spanning 15 years, actually debuting on WWF television first of all, against the British Bulldogs. But what memorable things do you remember him doing in the ring that didn't involve him damn near mutilating/killing himself with some ridiculously unnecessary spot? The only real answer you could possible give, would be his promo work.

He became the King of the Deathmatch over in Japan as well as becoming a mid-card star in WCW, being utilised for his hardcore style, and then went to ECW as part of a contractual agreement between the two brands, where his hardcore style was the primary focus again. Then he came to WWE, fueding with the likes of Taker and HBK and tagging with Vader, until eventually they ditched that persona and Mick Foley became the poster boy for breaking kayfabe. Kane doesn't come out as Isaac Yankem or Unabomb, and Rikishi never used to come to the ring dressed as the Sultan, but Foley was basically able to pick up gimmicks and toss them at the drop of a hat, to the extent that in one angle, even Al Snow started doing it. Doing that, near enough BECAME Foley's gimmick.

Think back to your favourite Foley matches and ask yourself, 'what is it about THIS match that makes me enjoy it so much? Well it won't be the ring psychology in the '98 HIAC match will it? You're not going to say 'I loved the excellent counter-wrestling in his street fight at RR2000', you'll say 'I loved it when he got Pedigreed on those thumb tacks.' You're not going to talk about the excellent storytelling that went on between him and the Rock at RR'99, you're going to bring up the 20 odd chair shots to the man's face. If you say otherwise, you're probably lying.

My other problem with Foley, is that he retired nearly 9 years ago now and has made more comebacks to the ring than most legends. Hell, he's probably catching up to Funk's record at this point. With his current stint, i understand that he's supposed to be trying to help TNA get over. I don't understand how they hoped to achieve that with him winning their World title.

Here's a guy who, when he was a fully contracted wrestler, didn't win on PPV 8 months straight. He then came back to fight with Orton, and still never won. He then wrestled Carlitio at a random Cyber Sunday and won that, and then went back to putting guys over, by losing to Edge at WM. So, at this stage, Mick Foley had become the ultimate jobber to the stars. You were doomed to remain a nobody unless you beat Foley in a hardcore match, which nearly every up and comer, did.

He goes to TNA, and wins their title near enough straight after getting back in the ring full time, and this is supposed to help make your talent seem worthy of our attention.

'Hey look, WWE's favourite punching bag, Mick Foley is the TNA World Champion! Those guys must really suck.'

Now, i've obviously not watched TNA properly, nor do i know how Mick's title reign panned out, and obviously him winning the title wasn't his choice, but when you come on air and proclaim yourself a major share-holder, naive marks are going to think negatively towards your talent when that same beat up old spot monkey waltzes in and beats your top legend for the title.

Also, there's no way in hell he'll ever get in the HOF now, despite giving years of his life to Vince McMahon and the WWE fans.

Foley had 2 main things going for him. He was an excellent talker, and he's damn near indestructible. Flair was near enough the total package to make a top wrestler that would outlast most. Essentially, Foley has always been exactly what Flair always said he was. A glorified stunt man, but in the late 90's/early 00's THOSE were the guys that seemed to shoot up the fastest. Hardcore wrestling was at it's peak in the late 90's, back when ECW was getting on the map. Now, while the fans may very well still want that type of bloodshed, thankfully wrestling has moved back to the more technical styles but with the emphasis more on the gimmickry and talking, but that's another story.

Foley was perfect for that era of wrestling, and he, along with Taker, are my 2 favourite wrestlers ever, but for all round skills-wise and drawing power, Flair is the better wrestler by leaps and bounds.
 
As to who is better overall, I'd probably have to go with Flair. There can be no question that Flair is a more skilled in-ring opponent overall. But, to be fair, Foley himself has stated that his ultimate goal was never to be a great technician or anything because he just didn't have it in him.

Ultimately, what sets Flair apart from Foley is that Flair was truly and legitimately the most dominant NWA wrestler of the 1980s. He had NWA World Championship reigns that lasted years rather than weeks or a few months, he was the biggest draw in the NWA, his matches were almost always of the highest quality, he wrestled guys from every walk of life whether they were high flyers, mat technicians, brawlers, or powerhouses and managed to beat them all. He'd often get the crap kicked out of him throughout his matches, but he usually came out on top. The only other guy of the past 30 years or so that can claim to be the undisputed, most dominant wrestler in his organization during the same time period was Hulk Hogan.

I think Flair is a bit of a prick for calling Foley a glorified stuntman. Foley was different, he wanted to find his own path and he managed to do so. Both guys are going to be remembered for their own different contributions. However, when it's all said and done, the general consensus is that Flair will be ranked above Foley. If you were to gather all the various promoters, journalists, wrestling insiders and wrestlers themselves and ask them to rank the 100 greatest pro wrestlers of the 20th century, Flair would be in the top 10, no question, but not Foley.
 
This is very difficult as im not a huge fan of either...

I respect Flair massively for his contribution to the business,but i have to admit towards the end of his career i cudnt see the magic he once had and to be honest i dont consider his last match with hbk to be as good as everyone claims it is,he has had plenty better and his retirement was well overdue. I prefer to luk back at his classics with sting and ricky steamboat,these matches were unbelievably good.

With Foley i agree that he has put over a lot of guys who are now on top. however he will never shake that stuntman tag,which to a degree is true. Foley will always be remembered for being thrown off the cell,being thrown through the cell,being thrown on tacks and being hit 15 times in the head with a steel chair. his promo work though was, in my opinion, better than flair's. he could draw raw emotion from a crowd,for example some of the promo's leading up to his retirement match with HHH at no way out,or his promo leading up to his match with orton,but particularly his promo stuff at ECW...absolutely immense
 
Considering that Foley had a much shorter career and was basically known for one type of wrestling match (hardcore) this really isn't a fair comparison. In terms of overall skill and drawing power Flair wins this one.

Flair proved in his heyday he could succeed in virtually every type of match imaginable, rememer those brutal old school NWA cage matches are basically what Hell In A Cell is today and Flair wrestled those kinds of matches routinely. Today's Elimination Chamber Matches are based on the old War Games Matches Flair routinely wrestled in. Few guys took more chair shots and bled more on a regular basis than Flair in his heyday, something that is forgotten as ppl focus more on his abiity to entertain in longer marathon matches and his penchant for making young (and often lesser skilled) talent look good in the ring.

Foley played a great character, great for comedy, but he proved, particularly in his later yrs that he could be good as a more serious character. No doubt Foley never met a bump he wouldn't take, but we've seen Flair fall off 15 foot ladders, take slams on beds on thumb tacks, and get whacked with barbed wire bats too. Foley was supremely entertaining in a variety of ways, but as a wrestler he was very limited. Flair simply was capable of being very good at more things than Foley.

A lot of ppl bring up the war of words between them in their books but it should be noted that they seemed to have patched up their differences and get along fairly well, and were doing so at the time of their I Quit Match at SS 2006. Perhaps Foley realized that Flair really didn't have anything to do with his career in WCW and Flair realized Foley was a harder worker than he gave him credit for.
 
Flair all the way. Flair was right when he said that Mick Foley is just a glorified stuntman. I appreciate the way Foley put his life on the line just to entertain us fans. But when Foley wrestles in any match that isn't a stipulation match he bores me. He is a great hardcore wrestler, but in a regular match he is nowhere on Flair's level.
 
foley was great at what he did taking insane bumps the main difference is not to many foley matches are called classics

so Flair wins this for me
 
Here is the question you have to ask...

If your talking better as in Talent, there is no way you can say Foley...

If your talking better as in did more for Pro Wrestling, there is no way you can say Foley...

However, if you're talking about who is the better story teller, without a doubt it's Mick Foley. I would rather watch a hundred Foley matches than a hundred Flair matches. With Flair, as great as he was, I always felt like I was seeing the same man in the ring. When he got angry, he was Ric Flair. When he was celebrating, he was Ric Flair. When he was nervous, he was Ric Flair...

But with Foley, there was always a new Foley in there somewhere. There was ECW Cactus Jack, who seemed to not care about his well being and liked pain. There was Mankind, the psychotic maniac who would snap at any minute. Later on, there was the PG Foley who introduced the world to Mr. Socko. After his first retirement, then there came the Hardcore Legend has had epic battles with both Randy Orton and Edge. TNA's Foley is even different.

So, when it comes down to answering your question...

Wrestler
Flair > Foley

Wrestler who i would pay my hard earned money to watch
Foley > Flair
 
Here is the question you have to ask...

If your talking better as in Talent, there is no way you can say Foley...

If your talking better as in did more for Pro Wrestling, there is no way you can say Foley...

However, if you're talking about who is the better story teller, without a doubt it's Mick Foley. I would rather watch a hundred Foley matches than a hundred Flair matches. With Flair, as great as he was, I always felt like I was seeing the same man in the ring. When he got angry, he was Ric Flair. When he was celebrating, he was Ric Flair. When he was nervous, he was Ric Flair...

But with Foley, there was always a new Foley in there somewhere. There was ECW Cactus Jack, who seemed to not care about his well being and liked pain. There was Mankind, the psychotic maniac who would snap at any minute. Later on, there was the PG Foley who introduced the world to Mr. Socko. After his first retirement, then there came the Hardcore Legend has had epic battles with both Randy Orton and Edge. TNA's Foley is even different.

So, when it comes down to answering your question...

Wrestler
Flair > Foley

Wrestler who i would pay my hard earned money to watch
Foley > Flair

Foley has did plenty of stuff for wrestling. He put his body on the line each and every night to give the fans what they want. He helped make HHH, Taker, Rock, Edge, Orton, etc. look better after facing him. If Flair would have retired 15 or so years ago, maybe I would have chosen him. As it stands right now, I will still pick Foley over Flair.
 
Foley has did plenty of stuff for wrestling. He put his body on the line each and every night to give the fans what they want. He helped make HHH, Taker, Rock, Edge, Orton, etc. look better after facing him. If Flair would have retired 15 or so years ago, maybe I would have chosen him. As it stands right now, I will still pick Foley over Flair.

Honestly, we would have missed out on alot of good Flair if he retired 15 years ago. WCW had the perfect last match in Flair and Sting, even out of their primes. Flair as co-owner of WWE causing the brand split was a great storyline, as well as his matches with Vince. Flair's program with The Undertaker a few years ago is very under-rated, as is his influence on Evolution (which caused HHH to get bigger, and the rise of two top WWE guys in orton and Batista). Also, without Flair, if Flair had retired, we would have never seen the Flair/Foley confrontation all of us Foley fans desired since Foley came out with Have a Nice Day. Lastly, Shawn Michaels vs Ric Flair at WrestleMania was without a doubt one of the top five moments of all WrestleMania's. Plus, he put over countless wrestlers in his later years in the ring. Without Flair in the WWE these last five years, they would still be WWE, but they wouldn't have some of the top stars they have today...

Still, as much as Foley did for wrestling, the only people that he truly made top stars in this business were Edge, Orton, and Vader (for a time). Undertaker can me named too, but he was already a top guy in WWE. HHH would have been a top guy in WWE with or without Foley, and the same can be said with The Rock. Flair made Steamboat, Sting, HHH, and countless other wrestlers in one way or another. I'm a huge Foley mark, but take this in. Without Flair, WCW would not have been as big as what it was. Without WCW as big as it was, there would have been no early Cactus Jack on National TV. And without that, there may have never been a Mick Foley with WWE (I know ECW played a factor, but I still think that in the eyes of Vince McMahon, his work in WCW did more...).
 
While I'd consider myself more of a fan of Foley than of Flair, I just have to give the nod to Flair. I admire Foley's passion and his ability to just simply work his ass off, no matter what, to put on the best show he can. Foley's two greatest assets have always been his ability to talk and his near superhuman durability. He used them both to make his career. He was unorthodox, though in a good way. He stood out and I think sort of connected with more "regular" people than a lot of guys did. After all, Foley has never been a great athlete, never had a great body, didn't have a movie star face and, to be honest, wasn't really all that good at actually wrestling. But everyone could see the guy's drive, his determination and he was just tough as can be.

As for Ric Flair, only a few wrestlers in any promotion can claim to be as dominant as Ric Flair. During the 80s, Flair was the biggest draw the NWA had, he was probably the best overall performer in the ring, arguably the greatest talker, and some of his world title reigns were measured in years. No question, Flair was the biggest thing in the NWA during the 1980s. When he came to the WWF in the early 90s, he was still a dominant force. Not as much as in the NWA, but the man won the WWF Championship twice. In spite of the WWE's attempts at rewriting history, Flair has legitimately won at least 20 world titles over the course of his career.

I sort of think that Foley could be hurting his overall legacy in TNA. I admire the fact that he's always been willing to put guys over and help them out, I do. But, Kurt Angle made him tap out at Victory Road. Mick Foley tapping out...it just..I dunno...it's just takes away from Foley. He's put himself through too much physically over his career, he can't just go like he used to.
 
I would have to pick Foley overall. Flair is a Hall of Famer and yes a 16 time world champion along with being in the 4 Horseman so Flair is higher on the achievement list then Foley. However, I feel Mick Foley is a hell of a story teller and can cut a promo and get fans to love him and hate him in the same sentence. Flair has lately come off as a crazy old man who has has been off his rocker. If the WWE superstars such as Triple H, Batista, Orton, and Jericho can't take him seriously then how are the fans suppose to? Mick Foley is no Ricky Steamboat in the ring but after the match he and Flair had at Summerslam, even Flair was stunned by his ring work. That feud could still be going on today if WWE would have done it correctly. Foley is in a class of very few wrestlers that people really care about. Foley can become the biggest heel of all time or the biggest face and he always has the audience in the palm of his hands. Foley may not have the fame or the money Flair has achieved but he is still number one in my book. I thought his bout with Angle at Victory Road was one of the best matches he has ever performed in without being thrown through a a cage, barbwire, or a flaming table.
 

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