Flyin' Brian Pillman: Overrated or Underrated?

[It's...Baylariat!]

Once again, another potential hot button issue. Pillman used to be a football player in Cincinnati before training to be a pro wrestler. When he joined WCW, he was a high flyer, and really over with the fans. Kinda like what Matt Sydal/Evan Bourne is today. Eventually, he got into some higher profile feuds and was even victimized by the 4 Horseman, which back in the late 80's/early 90's, that was the ultimate rub. Well, all of that led to him eventually becoming heel and joining up with Stunning Steve Austin and forming the Hollywood Blonds. The tag team won a couple of Tag Titles and ended up making an impact in WCW at a time that it was sorely needed. Eventually, that ship sailed, the tag team was disbanded and Austin left the company.

Later, Pillman would be in the same boat. The 'Loose Cannon' persona was born when he 'invaded' ECW, cut shoots on Bischoff and the entire WCW brass at the time, and making everyone in the ECW Arena uneasy. Later, he would return to WCW as a member of the Four Horseman. You heard me right. A member of the Horseman. It didn't last too long as Pillman eventually left again, this time for the WWF/E and joined up with the Hart Foundation to help defend Bret's anti-American stance and his crusade to avenge the Montreal Screwjob. Pillman found some good feuds, including an epic one with Stone Cold before Austin became as widely known as he is now. But his demons caught up with him, his ankle was broken in a motorcycle accident and was never able to be repaired, and caused a lot of pain, which ended up costing Pillman his life due to an overdose.

All in all, I have to say that Pillman's a little overrated. The reasoning is that he died so young, and that in itself leaves sort of a legacy, even though he may not have done too much with it. I look at the body of work of a wrestler and what he accomplished and to be honest, there's not much. He was controversial, but so was Ed Ferrara. But as far as high flyers, he was an originator, but was also not as successful as he could have been with the push he had.

So what's your guys' take? the "Loose Cannon": Overrated or Underrated?

Vote now, and no spamming please.

 

[NSL]

Brian Pillman may rank as one of the most under-rated ever. Not only was he one of the original North American high-fliers (following guys like Steamboat and Savage), but he was a tremendous athlete. He played professional football (albeit for the Bengals - won't hold it against him), and carried his matches well. As part of the Hollywood Blonds, he became one of the top tag team wrestlers of his time, and then only got better as a singles wrestler. It's really a shame that he died when he did. He could've been far better than he was.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

I feel pillman was extremely underrated. Pillman was what you call a total package, he could wrestle, was good on the mic, could cut a good promo, had some incredible feuds (2 of which were with Austin) and all in all was a very interesting character when he developed his loose cannon gimmick. Its just unfortunate he died so young so we will never see how far he could of went, but I bet had he not died he would have made it very far in this business, he would of at least had a solid IC title run.

 

[brochester8]

I agree he is under-rated and I think that is because he died young and people weren't able to see him as a "main eventer" in WWE. His feud with Goldust was awesome at the end and I'm sure it would have lead to a an IC title run. He had great ability as a high flyer and technical wrester. His tag team with Austin was great and from what I heard, he had a lot on the creative side of it. His mic skills were great and you can't beat the loose cannon gimmick. It made him seem crazy at the same time he was able to back it up. His feud with Austin where he goes to Pillmans house will never be forgotten. He was able to work with two of the best stable of all time, being the Horseman where he was able to work with Ric Flair and Arn Anderson and the Hart Foundation where he had Bret and other members of the famed Hart Family. He was always one of my favorites and can only imagine where he'd be today if it wasn't for his tragic death at such a young age.

 

[Midnite Express 2009]

Pillman...EXTREMELY underrated and to be honest, under used. I remember a cover of Pro Wrestling Illustrated right before he died asking if he would be the next WWF World Champion. He was destined for it in my opinion. However, as everyone knows, he died suddenly and the WWF/E wasn't able to give him that one good run. What makes Pillman underrated however IMO isn't the fact he never won a World Title (either in WCW or the WWF/E) yet the fact that he never won ANY major singles title. If Pillman were the same age he were today when he died, and if he were still alive today, he'd be Randy Orton and Orton would be Rhodes or DiBiase. Put it in the book. Pillman was Orton before Orton was cool. Either that or he'd be Edge right now. Would he have had as many title reigns? I doubt it. However, I would argue he'd have at least three which would make him one of the biggest current stars.

But to not put any strap on him was a goofy move by the creative department in WWE and makes me wonder if Vince and Co. ever regret that? There's really no legacy with Pillman other than him being the loose cannon and a tremendous wrestler/worker/mic user and overall talent. Other than that, no great highlight reel of matches (excluding the tremendous light heavyweight bouts in WCW), there's no outstanding Wrestlemania moment/match, etc etc. So this makes Pillman underrated because just imagine if he were given the keys to the car and told to drive the WWE into the year 2000 and beyond...We'd be talking about Pillman and NOT the aforementioned Orton and Edge and Cena as well.

 

[The Dewbliners]

First off, Lariat, I love ya, but you're chronology is a bit off. Brian was a Horsemen before he left WCW for ECW. And he never went back to WCW. Also, the Screwjob happened after his untimely passing. But, I'll go ahead and leave it at that. Great thread, by the way.

On to topic. I feel like Pillman is tremendously underrated. He was doing the high flying maneuvers before it was cool. Apart from that, to be able to do that kind of work, while suffering from polyps, how brave and strong is that?

Also, as others have pointed out, he was a football player for the Bengals (and that was before they sucked, NSL). For a man of his stature, that's impressive.....

But, and I think alot of people overlook this, he was also capable of working a technically sound match as well. Brian Pillman was a student of the game, who carried Lou Thesz's book around like his Bible. I'm just afraid that, in the long run, he'll get over looked in favor of the guys he paved the way for. I honestly feel that without the clinics he and Jushin Liger put on in the early 90's, we wouldn't have half the "high-flyers" we enjoy to this very day.

So, in summary: Brian Pillman is underrated, but I'll suggest that it's only because of his early death, as we will never know how great he could have gotten.

 

[X]

He's absolutely underrated. Most WWE fans probably know nothing about Pillman aside from the infamous "Pillman's Got a Gun" angle on Raw, and his feud with Austin. Maybe they remember him from the Hart Foundation, but probably not. Which is a shame, because Pillman was so much more than that. Before the car accident that shattered his ankle, he was among the best in-ring performers in the United States. More than that, he was simply revolutionary. Pillman was one of the very first Americans to showcase lucha libre to the American audience, he was doing things that made The Rockers look like Earthquake & Tugboat. The matches he had during his early run in WCW against guys like Jushin Liger were simply exemplary, and among the best wrestling matches you'll find from the 90s.

But that wasn't all he was good at. He quickly developed what I think was one of the best personalities and microphone skills of his time. The promos he cut during his ECW tenure, and his character were simply amazing. The heat he got from those crowds was simply ridiculous, and he would have made even Bischoff jealous with the controversy he would spark.

Pillman definitely falls under the banner of underrated. It's hard to see how anyone could argue otherwise.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

I have to say he's a little overrated, though I did enjoy watching him work. Pillman was exciting to watch in the ring the first few years he was in WCW, had some great matches with Jushin Liger over the WCW World Light Heavyweight Championship and started to come into his own around 1993 when he teamed with Steve Austin.

By the time Pillman came to the WWF, however, he wasn't nearly the wrestler he once was, though his ability on the mic had dramatically improved. He was controversial and it was a breath of fresh air but, he just wasn't around long enough to really take it to its upmost potential.

Pillman really only began his "Loose Cannon" persona in WCW in late 1995 and he was fired from WCW in very early 96, spent the next several months in ECW before joining the WWF by that summer. And, in a little more than a year, he was dead. I have to say Pillman is somewhat overrated because he just didn't have the time to really build himself into someone that was just completely unforgettable. When I look at his accomplishments overall, there's not really much there. From a character standpoint, he only began to really get interesting the last 3 years or so of his career but, since he died, he just didn't bring his "Loose Cannon" character to its full potential. Some great controversial moments, but it takes a little more than that.

Overall, I think timing has proven to be the ultimate downfall of Pillman's legacy. If Pillman had been 4 or 5 years younger by the time he came to the WWF, hadn't suffered the injuries that limited him, had kept developing the Loose Cannon character and hadn't died, then I think he'd be considered one of the greats today. He had the ability in the ring in the beginning, but he didn't have the mic skills. Later in life, he had the mic skills but didn't have the ability in the ring any longer.

 

[Doctor Awesome]

unfortunately in pro wrestling, there are so many threads about guys who passed on way too soon, so we are left with the "what if" and "over or underrated" threads. pillman was absolutely one of my favorites of the 90's, and without any bit of hesitation i would say he was underrated.

wcw was the company that dropped the ball with him. in a land of unchecked ego, a "good hand" such as guys like pillman, austin, douglas, benoit, malenko, guerrero, etc... never stood a chance at the real limelight of the top of the card. once he got to wwf the damage had been done, but none the less they put a great deal of hype and publicity around his story and signing, seeing a multi faceted person who could contribute to their product in so many different ways. it has been stated before that his best wrestling days were behind him because of the ankle that was fused twice, but with ample healing time he could have restuctured his wrestling style and still been very enjoyable to watch, as in the latter of his career the high flyer took a back seat to the loose cannon character. in hindsight, if he had been moved to the booth for a bit to test the waters there for down the road, and given him more time to heal (a la Curt Henning) he could have definitelty come back in better shape and had at the very least an IC/Euro title reign worth remembering. but alas, the spirit of a guy who refused to stay down, worked hard through the pain and ultimately payed the price for it.

i'm sure many here would agree that wwe putting out the loose cannon dvd showed just how much the company thought of brian and did a tremendous job with it. to this day it is one of my fave bio dvd's and i hope his kids know just how much he meant to the wrestling community.

 

[Kenny Powers]

There is no denying that Pillman was an incredible athlete on the field and in the ring. It's a shame that he had his car accident that shattered his ankle. I strongly feel that if Pillman didn't have the accident and were alive today he would be a true pioneer in the business. The "Pillman's Got a Gun" segment on Raw clearly paved the way for the WWE and the attitude era.

It helped to lead Austin into the character he is his today, but unfortunately Pillman was so limited in the ring he didn't have any memorable matches in WWE. The only memorable feud he had after Austin was with Goldust and Marlena which was cut short. Even with voice problems, Pillman could cut a promo unlike any other. I think I read or heard in his documentary that Pillman was thinking about handcuffing himself to the field goal at the Super Bowl.

He was actually that dedicated and maybe crazy to do something like that to make a name for himself. Pillman had the entire ECW arena eating out of the palm of his hand until he turned heel and became the most hated man in the building. He was actually threatening to urinate right there in the ring at the ECW arena. Who else today do you see that has that kind of passion in the wrestling business?

I think WWE would be too toned down for Pillman if he were still alive and healthy today. An autopsy found that Pillman had a previously undetected heart condition that led to his death. Pillman was amazing, it's a shame that most fans today have never heard of him or don't give him the credit he is due.

 

[OWEN-ing It All]

I don't think under-rated or over-rated are the words. I think he was misused and plus all his injuries really didn't let him see his full potential.

More bad luck and bad business than anything.

Great talent though.

 

[Loveless]

Probably one of the most under appreciated wrestlers in the history of WCW/WWF. In my opinion he had every bit as much talent as Austin but never had that break-out moment that he deserved. I'm fairly sure it would have come eventually as the attitude era was made for his brand of wide-eyed insanity.

 

[Henry Hill]

This was really hard for me to choose either under or over rated, because Brian Pillman passed before he really had an opportunity to take the ball and run with it. He did however make an impact and do well wherever he went, and certainly could have been a top, or near the top guy. I see him being akin to Chris Jericho's spot now but in the attitude era. A guy who is all around solid and can hang with the true main eventers if necessary or carry the mid card himself. The problem is no one ever saw this so in my opinion he's only underrated because we never got to see what he might have done. Therefore i have to say he is overrated because to me it seems like a lot of speculation on what might have been, not truly what he did accomplish. Were the Hollywood Blondes a great tag team? yes. Was the loose cannon character an early indication of the "attitude" that was to come? yes. was Brian Pillman the only reason for those things? sadly, uh, no. The Hollywood blondes also had Steve Austin involved, the Second super mega star of wrestling, the attitude era cannot be solely credited to Pillman, or anyone else, he was just an early part. So in my opinion, while Pillman was great, to me his unfortunate death has made his career more illustrious, which is terribly sad.

 

[travistragic]

Alright, two things.

First: Easy question, easy answer: underrated. Listen, it'd be one thing if he lived to see the type of success people were predicting he'd see at that point. If he was remembered with that same kind of glossy-eyed nostalgic adoration a lot of people have for guys like 'Taker, Michaels, and his former partner Austin, you could maybe have an argument for being overrated (not that I'm saying any of those guys are) but if you just look at him for his actual career, his performance in-ring and on the mic, his persona, his feuds and compare it to the level of appreciation the wrestling community AS A WHOLE (not just us IWC smarks) has for him, it's not even debatable.

Second: I'd be fine if this was just a poll followed by some conversation, but why was this all introduced by a ridiculously inaccurate autobiography. I didn't need an overview on who Brian Pillman was (I don't think any of us did), but heaven forbid someone did need a quick refresher on Pillman and you fed them that drivel. It takes five minutes to look something up before you post. The idea that both the at-the-time-recently-deceased Pillman and Bret Hart were still in WWE after the Montreal Screwjob is absolutely fucking insane. He only left WCW once and did not return, the four horseman angle was before ECW. And, oh yeah, most importantly, he did not die of a drug overdose! He had arteriosclerotic cardiovascular disease, something people most commonly develop as an adolescent but usually never show symptoms of until it inexplicably kills them later in life in the form of cardiac arrest. Eddie Guerrero died the same way, and yeah, the painkiller addiction was probably a factor but that's a moot point. The point is, you're miscontruing it as some semi-accidental suicide a la Crash Holly when it was nowhere in the same ballpark.

 

[MrLee]

Neither underrated OR overrated.

He was used in just the right way in WCW, firstly his run with Liger and later by Bischoff, creating a character that was completely unpredictable an belivable. (With The Hollywood Blondes as a ufrther exception, WCW DID drop the ball with him several times, though).
None of the wrestlers knew where they had him and it showed.

In WWF, however, he was not allowed to live his full potenitial, BUT he was also knackered beyond reapair by then.
But his Gun Angle with Austin is f'n LEGEND!

But had he re-signed with WCW, and not WWF, I can't see how much further they could have gone with his Loose Canon gimmick.
People were slowly catching on, that this was an angle, which became clear when he started with Vince.

History wise, he was NEVER FIRED by WCW, it was all an angle between Bischoff, Kevin Sullivan and Paul Heyman!!
And he DID appear in WCW after his first ECW angle, where he was on Nitro at ringside a few weeks after, with a sign that advertised his hotline number, but was "kicked out" by security, all part of the angle.
He was also briefly advertised as part of the Uncensored '96 Triple Cage match, against Hogan and Savage.
Bischoff was playing everyone, but Pillman played him as well, and signed with WWE summer of 96

 

[CKDaimen]

I'm sorry I really don't see the argument either way. Brian Pillman was a very solid midcarder with a very solid midcard career. The reason his WWE career didn't take off was due to injury. They really built him up though when he came into WWE and it's clear they had high hopes for him.

 

[SinCityBlitz]

I vote incomplete. He had a great career IMO but he would have been so much more if not for the accident. The way the WWE was using him when he first came in I have no doubts that he would have eventually held the WWE title. But his life came to an end way too soon and basically leaves his career incomplete.

 

[The Brain]

I not sure Pillman is overrated or underrated. For the most part he is remembered the way he should be. Don’t misinterpret what I’m saying. I think some people are of the opinion that if you don’t choose underrated you’re not showing him proper respect. I think Pillman was awesome. That doesn’t necessarily mean he’s underrated because I think a lot of people have the same opinion.

I would say he’s underrated if you don’t think he was about to become a megastar before his death. Brian Pillman and the attitude era were made for each other. The Loose Cannon character was brilliant and ahead of it’s time. I think Pillman had a big influence on the character of Stone Cold Steve Austin. Working with Pillman was probably the best thing that ever happened to Austin. Pillman probably would have been the biggest star in the WWF right behind Austin. I believe Pillman would have been bigger than the Rock (at least in 1998).

We had the privilege of seeing Pillman as a great wrestler and high flyer during the early part of his career. After he got hurt he reinvented himself to remain relevant in wrestling. It’s too bad we never got to see him reach his potential as a superstar.

 

[ECW2908]

You have to look at the overall of a wrestlers accomplishments in wrestlings. In ring skills as far as how entertaining and memorable was his character. Wrestling is sport and alot of entertainment. I say underated because Brian Pillman definetly entertained the crowds. He was a babyface as Flyin Brian Pillman which he was over with the fans. He was involved in one of the biggest PPV WCW War Games. He was on Sting's team with other top WcW talent. Then he was at the top of the tag team division with Steve Austin when they were the Hollywood Blondes. As someone stated before he was one of the first high flyers of wrestling. Then he never wrestled in ECW but developed a cult classic gimmick as the loose cannon gimmick. Which he went onto entertain and perfect in WWE. He has been surrounded by top talent every company he has been in. Hart Foundation and the Horsemen. I know he may not have the title accomplishments. All titles mean is the company is willing to run with you as its top guy. Companies show that in other ways to though. Pillman fueded with the horsemen the top stable in WCW. He was then apart of the horsemen. Next he joined the Hart Foundation WWE's top stable. He then fueded with Austin argueable the top man in WWE. Also had a notable fued with Goldust who was popular gimmick at the time. Infact in 1994 he was voted the most under rated wrestler!

 

[JBK2008]

He was an hell of a talent and a great guy from my hometown of Norwood, Ohio! He was great athlete and just had bad luck in WCW and it was a sad day when he died.

 

[BillAlfonso]

100% Underrated! He was one of the best mic workers ever and he was fuckin' believable which a lot of guys have trouble being, you might enjoy the character but you know it's a character. You didn't know if it was the character or the man speaking when Pillman got going until he got to the then WWF and things seem to be alright for him. He was the beginning of when I realized wrestling was worked when he outed Kevin Sullivan as the original Bookerman, sorry Booker T. I would've loved to see his Loose Cannon character and Stone Cold in a tag team since it was really the same character but conveyed differently since it was two different guys that went throught the exact same scenario with the exact same people.

 

[GameOver]

I'd say a little underrated, no way could he have been a world champ but he should've been granted more upper mid card fame

as a performer in WCW in the mid 90's he was off the page. He was a good high flyer hence the nickname "flying" Brian and was equally as good as Stunning Steve Austin on the mic who'm he teamed with as one of the best known if not short lived tag teams in history

As a character in WWF/E he was really good at being the crazed lunatic, the fact he went toe to toe with Austin had alot to do with that however he looked really awkward with his tiny legs and big upper body in comparison and couldn't wrestle for shit.

can't blame him for that though since he had a horrific accident

obviously he had some impact though cause look at the Brian Kendrick character, they kept spouting that he was like a young Shawn Michaels when he went heel, but i'd say he's more like a Brian Pillman b4 he went mental with the outfit of HBK earlier heel yrs.

 

[Freddy4190]

Pillman was one of the absolute best wrestlers to ever set foot in a ring. Incredibly overrated, the man helped basically cement high-flying into wrestling. He was doing stuff then that was relatively new, or not used then. He could cut promos, his in-ring work was fantastic up until the car accident, and even then it was pretty good for someone who fucked their ankle up. The Pillman's Got a Gun angle in my opinion made Austin. He definitely couldn't have pulled that off with anyone else but Flyin' Brian. It's an absolute shame he died so young. I would love to see him alive training these guys, teaching them how to cut a promo, anything. Brian Pillman is greatness.

 

[Space Volcano]

Pillman could have been one of the best ever. He was a Horseman, and a great promo man, with great wrestling skills.