ecw guys being treated like shit

[Smokeydogg]

they had sabu tap out to john cena

are you fucking kidding me

were talking about sabu the guy who gets hit with barb wire put through tables hit with chairs

it makes no sense i mean you have joey styles talking about how sabu once taped his jaw shut after he broke it and then finshed the match

BUT THEY HAVE HIM TAP OUT TO JOHN CENA SHITTY STFU

im so sick of this bullshit im sick of them making talented wrestlers look weak just to make cena look like an amazing badass

i mean at one night stand they made it look like rvd couldn't beat cena without edges help

fuck that bullshit and then you have sabu tap out and get made look like a pussy

and then on raw the next night you have rvd go get a chair as if rvd couldn't beat cena without a chair and then omg cena would of won if not for edge coming out

it's so annoying im sick of cena being shoved down my throat and im sick of them taking a big dump on all the ecw guys who put on way better matches then john cena

i dont hate cena i just want wwe to stop making him out to be the best their is have him fucking lose a match legit for once

 

[Randy Legend Killer Orton]

well listen to this i think it very probable when u have lots of great wrestler tap out to that move ie Triple H, Kurt Angle, Edge so it not farfectched to see sabu tap i mean the guy has got to be pushin 50 he cant stay tough forever.

 

[Soul Crusher]

they had sabu tap out to john cena

are you fucking kidding me

were talking about sabu the guy who gets hit with barb wire put through tables hit with chairs

it makes no sense i mean you have joey styles talking about how sabu once taped his jaw shut after he broke it and then finshed the match

BUT THEY HAVE HIM TAP OUT TO JOHN CENA SHITTY STFU

im so sick of this bullshit im sick of them making talented wrestlers look weak just to make cena look like an amazing badass

i mean at one night stand they made it look like rvd couldn't beat cena without edges help

fuck that bullshit and then you have sabu tap out and get made look like a pussy

and then on raw the next night you have rvd go get a chair as if rvd couldn't beat cena without a chair and then omg cena would of won if not for edge coming out

it's so annoying im sick of cena being shoved down my throat and im sick of them taking a big dump on all the ecw guys who put on way better matches then john cena

i dont hate cena i just want wwe to stop making him out to be the best their is have him fucking lose a match legit for once

That's what the ECW faithful have been saying all along. Why would Vince McMahon try to revive something that he doesn't understand? I mean, he acknowledged the ECW wrestlers and even used a couple on Raw at one time while both companies existed as separate entities, but Vinnie Mac can't grasp what made ECW so popular. There was a lot more to it than kendo sticks, tables, chair shots and chanting "E-C-W" (for the record, Vinnie, the chant is actually "E-C-DUB") - if you never watched it before, you would think that's all ECW had to offer judging by watching ECW on Sci-Fi and Raw.

What made ECW great was the matches where anything could happen, matches where both competitiors gave 100% effort, matches that would go on in excess of 30 minutes until a winner was determined (and 30 + minutes without the use of "rest holds" like chinlocks, I might add). What also made ECW great was the enthusiasm of the audience and all the chants, which is nonexistent in the toned-down version of ECW that's taped before SmackDown's audience.

The litmus test was the house show at the New Alhambra Arena (formerly ECW Arena) this past weekend, which was very poorly received. The matches lacked the excitement and the crowd did not get behind the new faces of ECW like Kurt Angle and The Big Show (the two guys that seem to be getting the biggest push, natch).

Despite what Paul Heyman and Tommy Dreamer have to say, I'm not optimistic about what the future has in store for ECW. It has a real tossed-off feel, and comes off low on the list of priorities for Vinnie Mac, who should just relinquish control and let Heyman and Dreamer call the shots - they have a far better understanding of what made ECW great than he does. Do I think that's likely to happen? Given Vinnie Mac's reputation - fat chance.

 

[Tommatt]

I'm ok with sabu tapping here. I hate cena, but at least their giving 2 of ECW's best decent pushes. Sabu got to show some of what hes capable of to the WWE fans. And damnit, i'd tap after being thrown through that table. SABU had to earn respect from the WWE fans after that. I mean, cena totally botched the throw to the table outside, and sabu got crushed by the support legs. I was ok with that. i'm not ok with Angle beating credible in 3 minute job fest, and big show throwing them all around the ring.

I'm giving it time. Week 2 was an improvement. I hope week 3 will be as well. I know the old ECW guys want to see it be like the old ECW, and hopefully with the good ratings, it'll happen.

 

[Soul Crusher]

I'm ok with sabu tapping here. I hate cena, but at least their giving 2 of ECW's best decent pushes. Sabu got to show some of what hes capable of to the WWE fans. And damnit, i'd tap after being thrown through that table. SABU had to earn respect from the WWE fans after that. I mean, cena totally botched the throw to the table outside, and sabu got crushed by the support legs. I was ok with that. i'm not ok with Angle beating credible in 3 minute job fest, and big show throwing them all around the ring.

That's what really pissed me off about the first episode of ECW. Not The Zombie (even though he was good for a laugh - I wouldn't mind seeing him on SmackDown!), not the use of WWE Superstars, not even Kelly (What did she do to deserve being on television such a short time after being signed?), but the two things you just mentioned. They pretty much pissed all over the ECW alumni to put over the two WWE defectors. That's not what ECW was about. Is that what the future has in store for Justin Credible, Stevie Richards, Balls Mahoney, Amish Roadkill, etc. - jobbing to Angle and Show and the new talent? That's why despite the improvement from the first episode, I'm not optimistic. I'm not giving up yet, though.

 

[EC MF'N W]

I agree with everything you guys said. ECW was about having great matches top to bottom where if you were in the crowd and not paying attention a wrestler could wind up in your lap. ECW was about the fans being closer to their favorite wrestlers. Every ECW guy interacted with fans on his way down that ramp whether it was slapping hands or cursing him out.

Get Kelly, Angle, and the Big Show off of ECW TV.
Get the Zombie, and Mucho Nacho or w.e off of ECW.
Stop the squash matches.
Stop invading ECW.
Start taping in small bingo halls instead of Smackdown's 9 year old crowd.

Just let Heyman let ECW be ECW.

 

[JohnnyRodz]

Has someone who was a lifelong fan of the old NWA/WCW,I feel your pain.

With that being said,you should have seen this coming.

"Start taping in small bingo halls instead of Smackdown's 9 year old crowd."

You know I wish they would do this,if for anything to show people that the crowd isn't the reason the ECW shows are sucking. The crowds aren't getting into the show because the show that is being presented is crap. Plain and simple.

 

[Mandrake]

i thought ECW was brought back to be an alternate option to Raw and Smackdown. honestly. I stopped watching wrestling after they fucked up the ECW invasion back in the day. And then I watched last years One night stand, and I thought "yeah, that's what wrestling is supposed to be" and I watched this years ONS and I was impressed again. And then I got so excited when Iheard ECW was coming back. But this crap is almost like watching Heat or something like that. This isn't ECW. Too much WWE feel for me. It's gross. And the matches are horrible. What's the point in watching Justin and Tommy job???? Like really. how is that supposed to help the brand of ECW. I thought the Big Show looked good at One Night Stand. That's a pretty sweet finishing move he has now. But this whole thing with Dreamer is getting old. I would understand maybe on week do it. but after that, make the story line advance. It's like Deja Vu. This all must just be killing Joey Styles to watch.

 

[Soul Crusher]

i thought ECW was brought back to be an alternate option to Raw and Smackdown. honestly. I stopped watching wrestling after they fucked up the ECW invasion back in the day. And then I watched last years One night stand, and I thought "yeah, that's what wrestling is supposed to be" and I watched this years ONS and I was impressed again. And then I got so excited when Iheard ECW was coming back. But this crap is almost like watching Heat or something like that. This isn't ECW. Too much WWE feel for me. It's gross. And the matches are horrible. What's the point in watching Justin and Tommy job???? Like really. how is that supposed to help the brand of ECW. I thought the Big Show looked good at One Night Stand. That's a pretty sweet finishing move he has now. But this whole thing with Dreamer is getting old. I would understand maybe on week do it. but after that, make the story line advance. It's like Deja Vu. This all must just be killing Joey Styles to watch.

I feel the same way. The One Night Stand events were well-executed (although I would have preferred less in the way of "WWE Invasion" involvement). I actually was heavily anticipating the re-launch of ECW and believed that nothing would have been lost in the translation - man, was I wrong.

Maybe we're being hard on ECW, but you know what? Vinnie Mac should have known that with those three letters come high expectations - if the new ECW can't deliver the same energy, the same intensity, and the same never-say-die attitude from the competitors, then it's just going to serve as an empty, hollow imitation of the ECW we all fondly remember.

What we've been seeing is just ridiculous. Besides all the deja vu, they're making the ECW icons look bad by using them as jobbers and devoting so much time to dumb broads like Kelly. I'm also not hopeful about many of the ECW newcomers that I'm seeing, as they all seem like the generic, prototypical big guy that Vinnie Mac loves for whatever reason (Mike Knox & Test that would be you).

We can only hope that DVDs of the original ECW will surface at some point and time (preferably with music and everything else intact) in order to get our fix.

 

[iain2ks]

I hear what your saying about ecw being treated like shit
well i have a theory about this.
did you ever stop to think the reason why they being treated like shit is because they are shit!?

i mean take sabu for example please take him get him off of wwe tv for gods sake

the most impressive thing i have seen from that guy is when he sticks his finger in the air, he makes big look good!

and dont get me started on sandman and balls mahoney

plain and simple ecw is the biggest pile of donkey shit i have ever seen and why vince would want to bring it back is beyond me!

 

[Smokeydogg]

well listen to this i think it very probable when u have lots of great wrestler tap out to that move ie Triple H, Kurt Angle, Edge so it not farfectched to see sabu tap i mean the guy has got to be pushin 50 he cant stay tough forever.

they had sabu tap in seconds it was bullshit

and he is 50 so what hogan comes back and beats younger guys ric flair won the ic belt age dont matter in wwe

you have all this damn promos about how sabu is a tough motherfucker and he is crazy and will do crazy shit but he taps in seconds to a shitty submission hold

BULLSHIT

im sick of cena getting shoved down my throat

the match was good but the finsh was lame

 

[iain2ks]

ecw want to be independant and work on their own back but they still have to take stars like kurt angle and have a stripper just to get ratings

and if they want to do it on their own back why do they need to appear on wwe ppv's or raw for that matter they have no business there

just like wwe stars have no business in extremly crappy wrestling!

 

[CZW4Ever]

Sabu is now 41 years old. He looks in good shape for his age and holds nothing back. Alot of of wrestlers at his age dont even leave their feet. What he did to Cena on Raw was nothing short of awesome !!! He took oen hell of a dive. Cena and Edge being in ECW indirectly since they came back just goes to show that WWE thinks ECW can succeed wihtout WWE presence in there. The way I look at it, until WWE remains somewhere in the picture, it wont be as it was before. Kick ass over the top storylines and action like nowhere else.

 

[jedite]

As long as Vinnie Mac is involved with the direction of ECW, ECW is never going to be what it was. Because what we are seeing now, is just a watered down version of Smack Down. I mean, Kurt Angle and the Big Show have no place in ECW. Their wrestling styles aren't extreme at the least.

Also, what made ECW was it's unpredictablity. But, now, ECW is so predictable. You can practically guess what's going to happen.

Unless, Vince gives creative power to Heyman, which seems doubtful because Vince is a power hog, ECW will slowfully fade away like the XFL.

 

[Hitman_03]

The whole reason ECW worked was becasue they were different. There is nothing different about them now. They don't even fight in the crowd, which was almost a staple of the old ECW.

The worst part about it is, that they are determined to show it in front of a WWE crowd. An ECW crowd is 100% different from a WWE crowd. RVD doesn't get cheered, and the crowd has no reaction to the show. In most cases smackdown is so bad, the crowd is bored by the time it comes to ECW. The only way this is going to work is if they have seperate production in front of a real ECW crowd, with ECW wrestling.

I agree that the worst part is that Paul Heyman is now more of a character than he is a true force behind it. You can tell that Vince won't let him do anythng and that Vince is making this his project instead of bringing back what makes it different.

The last part is that I hate that WWE people are there. It is like Vince is saying it won't succeed without them, and if they fail, it will just be because it was not as popular as they thought, ECW wrestlers and Paul Heyman will get no credit. Where are the chairs and tables, barbwire, ladders, etc? And get the hell off of SCI-FI so we can stop seeing vampires and zombies! They are a joke right now, a real joke.

 

[iain2ks]

the biggest joke of all is ecw !

 

[Soul Crusher]

As long as Vinnie Mac is involved with the direction of ECW, ECW is never going to be what it was. Because what we are seeing now, is just a watered down version of Smack Down. I mean, Kurt Angle and the Big Show have no place in ECW. Their wrestling styles aren't extreme at the least.

Also, what made ECW was it's unpredictablity. But, now, ECW is so predictable. You can practically guess what's going to happen.

Unless, Vince gives creative power to Heyman, which seems doubtful because Vince is a power hog, ECW will slowfully fade away like the XFL.

I agree with everything you said. As for Kurt Angle & The Big Show appearing in ECW - I've heard that they want Angle to be the new Taz and Show to be the new 911. Couldn't they get other people (hmmmm... maybe 911 himself?) to play these roles? Do they not have enough faith in ECW's roster that it could work without the presence of WWE Superstars?

All ECW represents is Vinnie Mac trying to profit off of the company's legacy while presenting a half-assed "sports entertainment" version of it to win over the Raw and SmackDown! fans.

The angles are very predictable - once again, as expected, Dreamer took another beating at the hands of Show, Kelly did another lame "expose", an ECW wrestler was used as a jobber to the "new talent initiative" (Danny Doring), Edge interfered at the end of the show, and Sabu appeared in the only true ECW Style match of the night. And that was ruined by Joey Styles and Taz constantly chiming in with lame phrases like "Extreme Rules!" and "I need to reiterate this - anything goes!" about 30 times over the course of a match that ran 10 minutes or less. My take on this: Once JBL is cleared to wrestle again, Taz should go back to being the color commentator on SmackDown! and leave Styles to call the matches by himself like he did in the past. He might have had a great wrestling history at ECW, but as a commentator he's out of his element.

Vinnie needs to realize that ECW was a huge success without his involvement, and that's he only holding it back by giving it an unnecessary injection of "sports entertainment". ECW was never about that - it was about the matches first and foremost, and when they waste time on silly little gimmicks and dumb tarts like Kelly, the real ECW fans are going to tune out. That is the reason why I tape ECW - I can fast forward through the moments that are a waste of time for everyone except boys just hitting puberty.

 

[Randy Legend Killer Orton]

As long as Vinnie Mac is involved with the direction of ECW, ECW is never going to be what it was. Because what we are seeing now, is just a watered down version of Smack Down. I mean, Kurt Angle and the Big Show have no place in ECW. Their wrestling styles aren't extreme at the least.

Also, what made ECW was it's unpredictablity. But, now, ECW is so predictable. You can practically guess what's going to happen.

Unless, Vince gives creative power to Heyman, which seems doubtful because Vince is a power hog, ECW will slowfully fade away like the XFL.

I mean u cant blame the guy he is the one investing money in ECW I know if i were investing money in ECW id want to be hands on with the project.

 

[Hitman_03]

What we are seeing on "ECW" is not EC f'n W. it is almost like Vince loves to destroy things that someone else created so he can feel more powerful. I need to make a comparison so that I can get my next point accross. If your a woman you can relate to another woman because you might go through similar things. But a woman who has never been pregnant cannot relate to one who has because she has never been there and experienced it, and even if she has, it could be a different type of preganancy.

Now that i got that out the way, the point is, even though Vince knows wrestling, hell Vince is wrestling, ECW was a different animal. Just because your formula works for you, doesn't mean it works for everything. ECW worked because it was different. you didn't see 6'9 guys (besides Mamaluke and Jack Victory), you saw average looking guys doing amazing things and putting their body on the line. Vince will never understand or relate to ECW and should let Paul do that, he was there he knows what makes ECW. It didn't go under becasue the product was bad, Paul was just not a good business man. Vince can do the funds and marketing part, but let Paul do the matches, and storyline becasue if Vince keeps doing it I swear I will stop watching. It is a joke right now, and absolute joke.

 

[Randy Legend Killer Orton]

What we are seeing on "ECW" is not EC f'n W. it is almost like Vince loves to destroy things that someone else created so he can feel more powerful. I need to make a comparison so that I can get my next point accross. If your a woman you can relate to another woman because you might go through similar things. But a woman who has never been pregnant cannot relate to one who has because she has never been there and experienced it, and even if she has, it could be a different type of preganancy.

Now that i got that out the way, the point is, even though Vince knows wrestling, hell Vince is wrestling, ECW was a different animal. Just because your formula works for you, doesn't mean it works for everything. ECW worked because it was different. you didn't see 6'9 guys (besides Mamaluke and Jack Victory), you saw average looking guys doing amazing things and putting their body on the line. Vince will never understand or relate to ECW and should let Paul do that, he was there he knows what makes ECW. It didn't go under becasue the product was bad, Paul was just not a good business man. Vince can do the funds and marketing part, but let Paul do the matches, and storyline becasue if Vince keeps doing it I swear I will stop watching. It is a joke right now, and absolute joke.

The point of bringing ECW back was to give it a new vision and Paul is very much in charge of ECW, It was Pauls Choice to bring Big Show, Angle, Test, Mike Knox, Kelly and modecai or vampire guy. And its also his idea for whats happening to tommy dreamer and the sandman. Now im not sayin I agree with whats happening but u cant blame Vince. Just be patient everything will work itself out and ECW will be fine and you'll probably love it. Remeber it a new vision and its going just fine if u ask me. Because it will evolve and become just as good if not better than Monday night RAW.

 

[scarfo]

I reccomend to a number of you that before you post about ECW again, go watch some old ECW matches. The ECW stars are being treated like total shit. The big mistake is bringing WWE stars over to ECW as "draws". It's stupidity because you can't bury these guys you've put over for years by having them lose to ECW stars, but this means you then have to turn some ECW legends into jobbers.

Had they just kept the two separate, or if they finally separate them, ECW will be great again.

 

[Zoltaire]

Truthfully, alot of the things your bitching about are Heyman's ideas. I mean Heyman is great and all but you guys are getting out of hand in attributing anything good that happens as being all Heyman, while anything bad that happens is obviously Vince's fault. Mike Knox and Kelly - that's all Heyman's idea all the news sites are reporting that he has his hands all over that storyline like it or not. I'm pretty sure Tommy Dreamer and Heyman are also directing whatever is going down with the Big Show.

The show is getting better, everyone needs to chill a bit. ECW in three weeks is already better than Smackdown. Soon it will be if nothing else as good as Raw. If we're lucky it will continue to improve until its somewhere between the old ECW and RAW or at the same level or beyond the past standard. I'd simply urge everyone to be patient as there has been progress.

 

[MrTDG]

There is very little in Heyman's past that would suggest that these ideas are ALL him. Yes he has his hands in it, but squash matches/short matches, non competitive matches, battle royals, etc does not seem like anything he would do at all. Even though ECW can't be exactly the same as it was before, what has been presented so far doesn't seem like it would be 100% his brainchild. Also, what sites are saying Kelly, etc are his ideas?