Does a wrestler's background matter?

Navi

With the safety off!!
Something I just read on another thread put me in mind of this and I thought I'd ask that question.

Many of the wrestler's on the roster today aren't home grown WWE talents like Cena and Orton. You have Rollins, Bryan, Ambrose, Balor, Owens and others who have come to the WWE by way of the indies. Then you have people like Samoa Joe, Rhyno and Sting from TNA.

A statement was made that why should we care about what they did in another promotion, why does it matter? I think it does.

Who they are, what they did, who they faced shaped the wrestler we see today in the WWE ring. It doesn't matter that they're not home grown WWE talent, there are very few of them around, most of the active wrestlers on the roster came from other promotions. To say that they're background means nothing is shit.

No one woke up one day knowing how to wrestle. They didn't all of a sudden pull submission moves out of thin air, and have the knowledge to create a finishing move. That is what they learned over the years not working in the WWE. Now that they find themselves in a WWE ring, and what they learned they can put to good use teaching the newer wrestlers. It's an invaluable learning tool and one that shouldn't be ignored.

Your thought's on this would be appreciated.
 
I disagree. WWE is the big leagues, and since the death of WCW, they're the ONLY big leagues. A wrestler who comes into WWE should be treated as a blank slate. Their accomplishments in the minor league are irrelevant as far as I'm concerned, and for every fan that agrees with your point of view, there's one that agrees with mine. I feel what WWE is doing with NXT is wrong. The developmental process should not be televised, nor should it be referenced on the main program, regardless of how well it's doing. It's another short-term fix that's going to hurt WWE in the long run.
 
No question that someone's background matters greatly. If it did not, we would not have NXT. It would just be like Heat or Main Event: another show to show off jobbers or trainees. Back in the day, people like Samoa Joe, Balor, Asuka and James Storm would be getting featured matches on Championship Wrestling: Joe would be squashing Mohammad Saad, Balor would be beating up Jose Estrada, and the Cowboy, with the Grand Wizard as his Manager, would squash some jobber. Even Asuka would be beating up Peggy Lee Leather while holding the WWWA Championship, and Asuka would be introduced by Joe McHugh as such. Such as the days of the Territories were.

Shoot forward to today. WWE is a publicly traded company on Wall Street. It is this reason they have to show their arrogance when it comes to wrestling. Look at Sting as a perfect example. If you listen to VKM and his minions, Sting sat on his tochas for 14 years. However, if you are a fan of professional wrestling, you know that Sting has been in TNA for the vast majority of time. So, would you call Sting a "Little Leaguer"? I wouldn't, nor would most people. Now, if we were talking about Sandy Mann or Nikos Rikos from Pro Wrestling Syndicate, of course you would say it is a step up into the "big leagues" as PWS is a training school that holds matches monthly unlike WWE, which is a 300 day a year operation.

To put this in another vein, why do we care about Kevin Owens? If his background did not matter, no way in hell would he be on the Main Roster. He would be treated more like ZZ than someone we all said "Kill, Steen, Kill". Would we care about Samoa Joe? Rhyno? Finn? Itami? Probably not. We care about them because many have been followed for much of their careers in TNA, New Japan, NOAH, and AAA. NOBODY who is a fan of Professional Wrestling would call any of those companies "Little Leagues". Those who do have been sold by the MARKETING and PR HYPE, and not the actual product, of Stamford and their minions.

In the age of the internet, only a child or a WWE Lifer would say that WWE is the only game in town. It is ONLY if you want to try to get into Hollywood. You can make some movies or get invited to a supermarket opening if you go to WWE. Will it advance your wrestling career? Probably not. Look at Justin Gabriel aka PJ Black: He has done more with his career in the last six months than he ever did in WWE. Look at Mark Jindrak: He is near Deity status in Mexico. Do you think he will EVER come back to WWE if Trips asked him? Only if Jindrak gets a Lesnar-type contract. But, if they ever came back to WWE, it is because they made a name for themselves in other places. They have a fan base that CARES about them, and will probably follow them over to WWE.

So, in closing, we can safely say that in today's WWE, someone's background is INTEGRAL in the creative production and actual match execution that we see on TV. Again, if they did not have the background that we already knew, NXT would barely exist, and WWE would be in far bigger trouble than they are in now.
 
I disagree. WWE is the big leagues, and since the death of WCW, they're the ONLY big leagues. A wrestler who comes into WWE should be treated as a blank slate. Their accomplishments in the minor league are irrelevant as far as I'm concerned, and for every fan that agrees with your point of view, there's one that agrees with mine. I feel what WWE is doing with NXT is wrong. The developmental process should not be televised, nor should it be referenced on the main program, regardless of how well it's doing. It's another short-term fix that's going to hurt WWE in the long run.

I like your opinion, but I disagree with it.

NXT is a hugely vocal crowd that work hard to get over everyone it seems. Televising it for the larger audience means less work to make the transition to the main roster as someone like, for instance, Prince Pretty is getting a great pop even though he is a relative unknown. But the people who attend RAW and watch NXT are enough to drag the rest of the crowd to a reaction for someone they've never heard of.

Also maintaining the same gimmick they worked up in NXT allows them to feed into a role they are already comfortable with as you know which spots work with that character, which ones don't and then it all becomes an extension of the work they've already put in on NXT.
 
I am happy that WWE embraces indie guys and TNA guys more now than in previous times, however I don't think any non WWE talent should be brought in and immediately made a top star (with the exception of Sting's case). Even someone like AJ Styles who is perhaps the biggest name outside of WWE now, if brought it, should only be put into the IC or US title picture at the most.

WWE never really acknowledged the prior careers of guys like Steve Austin, Mick Foley or Triple H even though they came over from WCW, although Jericho did make a big debut - he soon slipped back into the lower card.

I think the NXT crowd is more of a smart crowd trying to create an indie / ROH style atmosphere and they are more likely to know who a James Storm or Samoa Joe is but the main WWE crowd and the kids watching may not even be aware of wrestling outside of the WWE. I'm Australian and most people here would not be aware of New Japan or ROH. A few might know TNA but not many.
 
In no way shape or form should someone's indy career matter in the slightest when coming into the WWE. When you're in the WWE, then you're in the full time production, not wrestling in VFWs and such.

Take an argument I recently had on the front page here. People claim that Roman Reigns hasn't paid his dues, but what, outside of intentionally taking a smaller paycheck and wrestling in front of 48 people on a card that probably also features a barbedwire glass tube gusset board deathmatch, can he do in order to pay his dues? Tell Vince, "Hey, I don't want a push. I want to go to the Indys and then come back up through NXT for 3 years,"?

No. So, if you're referencing someone else's past (Like Daniel Bryan's career possibly ending style of indy fighting), then what you're doing is putting someone over and burying someone else. When they're in the WWE, it only makes sense to reference their WWE accolades, not their past.
 
It helps.

Yes some people may not know about Samoa Joe, Finn Balor, Kevin Owens, Seth Rollins achievements elsewhere but those who do will be able to say 'they've got what it takes'
Guys like Joe and Balor have slugged it out in other promotions and have been top dogs there, even on a smaller scale that shows they can carry matches and feuds and given the right opponent and storyline they could possibly do it in WWE.

A good example would be Jared Leto playing the Joker. Most people know him as the frontman of 30 Seconds To Mars. A lot of people don't think he'll be able to pull it off (similar to fans who only watch WWE) and they don't necessarily understand why some people say he's awesome (similar to people who watch other promotions) and can pull it off. He may not have played the type of character before but his ability from his lesser know films dictates that he can pull it off (similar to indy wrestlers moving to WWE)
 
The benefit a wrestler gets who has worked in Indies and around the world is they have learned to get over in front of a crowd. They will have learned what works and what doesn't work and how to bring a crowd back to their match. Cena and Orton are over with Fans and Orton is a great in-ring wrestler- but name another WWE raised star in the roster today that is as big as Seth Rollins, Daniel Bryan or Kevin Owens.
 
I think background matters a lot...... You are more comfortable with the crowd..... At last experience does matter...... Just an example
Baron Corbin is inexperienced and only in WWE..... While we see Apollo Crews who has experience and we all know who is better? You are polished one if you have nice background...
 
I look at it this way. When you go for a job interview what are the two most important elements that you bring to the table, experience and education. Working in other promotions before hitting the "big leagues" gets you that, so it does matter.

If the WWE refused to bring in a wrestler because he worked in the indies can you imagine the gaping holes we would have in the roster today. You wouldn't have Rollins, Ambrose, Harper, Bryan, Balor, Samoa Joe, Asuka, Itami, Owens, Zayn and there are a lot more. The Shield would never have existed considering two of it's members are Tyler Black and Jon Moxley.

They make a big deal out of Kurt Angle winning a gold medal at the Olympics in wrestling, but it's a different form of wrestling. Mark Henry competed in the Olympics in powerlifting, not anything to do with wrestling. Lesnar was handed the keys to the kingdom because he was the heavyweight champion in MMA. Yet they have no problem letting the viewers know that and talk at length about it. Yet Sting's accomplishments aren't mentioned. If I was a young fan I might wonder why do they call him the Icon, why is this man so revered.

You can't bring someone like Sting in with the background he has and totally ignore it. Yes they made a big deal out of his WCW run, but what did he do between his run there and his debut in WWE. That is never mentioned. Just for bragging rights alone you'd think Vince would have talked about having two former ROH world champions on his roster, in Rollins and Owens. But their accomplishments aren't well known to the casual fan.

If the WWE are the big leagues and they aren't afraid of anyone, then there should be no issue about letting wrestlers talk about their pedigree. It's important in other aspects of life, but only in professional wrestling is it taboo.
 
Management/promoters/writers are the heels in wrestling today. Ignoring a guy's Indy cred is part of that. It creates the illusion of disrespect between WWE brass and their employees. It makes the accomplishments these guys achieve in WWE that much more special and so much more "because of the fans". The smarks eat this stuff up and throw so much more love at these performers because of it.

That being said it is a dying concept since it has been shown that WWE loves working the audience this way and loves guys like Bryan, Ambrose, and Rollins. But still, look at the way Rollins has been booked despite being champion. It is downright dreadful and disrespectful to Rollins and I can't believe they would do that to a talent like Rollins because he is not a WWE guy and has the look that Vince treasures so much. Oh wait, I'm getting worked too.
 
Yeah I think it definitely matters, even to the WWE brass. Look at guys like Balor, Steen, Itami, Joe, Bryan, Rollins, etc. now and think back to when they were brought in.

Balor: A year after debuting in NXT, is NTX champion. There was a huge show made out of his debut and he was #1 contender pretty soon after arriving.

Owens: NXT Champion within two months of his debut, beat John Cena clean, and is now IC Champ. His debut... well he basically won the title on his debut.

Itami: Despite not being able to speak English very well, he was brought in with a ton of publicity and has always been near the top of the card in NXT. He also competed in the ATGBR at Mania.

Joe: Entered into a feud with NXT Champion on his debut. Probably the next NXT Champion.

Bryan: Not taking into account the debacle of his first run... he was brought back to WWE as a member of Team WWE against The Nexus and was one of the two final remaining members of his team before he was pinned. After that he beat The Miz for the US Title. Since then he's been World Champion and WWEWHC.

Rollins: First NXT Champion. Debut in a huge segment with The Shield. WWEWHC.

The similarity between these guys is they were all World champions on the indie scene at one time or another (Balor was a Junior Heavyweight Champion) and were hugely over in their respective promotions. And they've all been treated pretty well by WWE from debut to current day because they know the talent and value they have in these people.
 
Who they are, what they did, who they faced shaped the wrestler we see today in the WWE ring.

That's true, yet I feel what the guy/gal did before helps them get the job with WWE in the first place but it doesn't necessarily shape what he/she will be doing once in the major leagues.

The WWE scouts have the opportunity to see what the performer is capable of in the indies and reports back to Vince McMahon & those in charge of building the roster. Most likely, the scouts are informed in advance of the development of a new character, and they are charged with finding the right person to fit that character. Vince & company take it from there.

As for NXT, I think we get to see both sides of the developmental equation. Yes, it's small-time, yet the crowds are vocal and enthusiastic.....and the production values are high...... so the broadcast is more fun to watch than a 'crowd' of 9 fans in a junior high school gym in West Virginia. At the same time, we know in advance the work inside the ring isn't going to be as good as what we see on the main roster. Fans who are offended by that need not tune into NXT, but I really enjoy watching the up-and-comers......along with the performers who will probably never make it to the main roster.....and speculating on what they will (or won't) become in the future.

Sure, the wrestler's background matters.
 
yep, I think it does.

the journey matters... and I respect all the journeys

I love when stars come through the smaller independent scene or the other international major players like TNA, ROH, NJPW, NOAH, CMLL or AAA. I lovewhen stars come through the legacy of their families and do it for the pride of their families be it the larger families i.e. the Stampede/Hart/Dungeon or Samoan Legacy. Hell, I don't even mind when they come from football/bodybuilding and they have the desire to work hard like Mongo or Corbin

But unlike morons like Aquaman666 who believes the WWE is the only important place of wrestling, I believe that when WWE (especially legends like Regal) scouts talent like Fergal Devitt from NJPW (who was their top... Caucasian... talent) they know exactly what they are bringing to the table... Devitt ain't coming to them, Hunter is coming to him because of how good he is and the legacy he has already created for himself... Backstage Personnel like Hunter, Regal, Bloom or Sara are their to put what is an already established Japanese Superstar (and yes NJPW is the #1 wrestling product in Japan!) and put the WWE touches on him and create an even BETTER Devitt like they have done with the creation of Finn Balor (who mark my words is going to headline Wrestlemania within next 3-5 years). And when Fergal Devitt and his Finn Balor character continues to glide through the ranks of NXT and when he debuts on RAW/Smackdown and starts performing at PPVs... the story of his journey will of mattered. How he climbed the mountain and was the Wrestling Prince of Japan then managed to become the Finn Balor he is today... and I for one will get a kick out of JBL talking about Finn once being the Prince of Japan, because he knows how hard Devitt had worked to get to that point!
 
Background matters as much in wrestling as it does in any other job, or it should at least.

As with trying to get a job, any employer is gonna be interested in whatever sort of background experience you have. In pro wrestling, that constitutes a lot of things from athletic ability, marketability based on image, work ethic, experience in other sports or athletic endeavors, grappling training & martial arts experience, work ethic, etc.

When it's all said & done, it doesn't really matter to me if a wrestler is "homegrown" or not. Personally, I admit that I lean a bit more towards a wrestler that has a good deal of prior experience within the business and with different styles. However, when it's all said and done, as long as the guy keeps me entertained and invested in what he's involved with, that's really all I care about. It can be difficult to get a sort of "homegrown" mega star, someone that you've cultivated from the very beginning into a successful franchise for the company. Only a few handfuls of guys who're "homegrown" mega stars spring to mind like Cena, Batista, Brock Lesnar, The Rock and a few others.
 
Background matters as much in wrestling as it does in any other job, or it should at least.

As with trying to get a job, any employer is gonna be interested in whatever sort of background experience you have. In pro wrestling, that constitutes a lot of things from athletic ability, marketability based on image, work ethic, experience in other sports or athletic endeavors, grappling training & martial arts experience, work ethic, etc.

When it's all said & done, it doesn't really matter to me if a wrestler is "homegrown" or not. Personally, I admit that I lean a bit more towards a wrestler that has a good deal of prior experience within the business and with different styles. However, when it's all said and done, as long as the guy keeps me entertained and invested in what he's involved with, that's really all I care about. It can be difficult to get a sort of "homegrown" mega star, someone that you've cultivated from the very beginning into a successful franchise for the company. Only a few handfuls of guys who're "homegrown" mega stars spring to mind like Cena, Batista, Brock Lesnar, The Rock and a few others.

It's funny, because to me, I can't take a guy seriously in the WWE if I can Google his CZW work and watch him botch blade jobs and gusset boards and thumbtacks, etc.

I'll take homegrown all day, with very few exceptions. If someone is FANTASTIC in the ring, then I can sometimes look past it. Kevin Owens. Apollo Creed. Maybe a bit of Finn Balor. But that's about it. The indys of the 2000s is NOT EVEN CLOSE to the territories of the 70s, 80s, and 90s.

Give me Cena Batista Brock over Punk Bryan and Sami Zayn all day every single day.
 
For many years it was Taboo to mention on one company's programs that a featured wrestler appeared for another company, let alone won titles/accolades there. Many people think this was a Vince Jr thing but even before the national expansion it was uncommon, not unheard of, but uncommon, to mention that another wrestler had a career elsewhere. The most you would get is a recognition from the announcers that said wrestler was a big deal of sorts when they debuted, something along the lines of "I Cant believe SuperStar Billy Graham is here in the NWA" or something like that.

Now, in the 1980s when Vince Jr took over he basically built his entire main event and much of his upper card on established talents who were stars elsewhere. Savage was already appearing in his Macho Man character with Liz for his father's promotion and worked in the Mid South and Florida areas. Greg Valentine & Roddy Piper actually wrestled each other at Starrcade 83 in a Dog Collar match and soon debuted basically playing the same characters in WWE. Hulk Hogan was set to win the AWA Title from Nick Bockwinkle when a financial dispute with Verne Gagne made him available, he tweeked his already newly established hero persona that he established after years as a heel against Bockwinkle and Hulka-Mania was born. Ricky Steamboat was the same character for several years in the NWA before he signed with WWE. Some wrestlers came with minor tweeks, Rick Rude was basically the same character in World Class & NWA before joining WWE, as was Kerry Von Erich. Jake Roberts and Paul Orndorff went through little change from their NWA days before signing with Vince.

After awhile Vince started signing established talents but giving them significant character make overs such Ted DiBiase who was main eventing all over Mid South before joining WWE, or former AWA World Champion Curt Henning. This was an attempt to further the idea that no other wrestling company existed, or mattered, in the eyes of casual fans. Still, some stars were too big and popular in their gimmicks and too well known to fans to change. Vince never acknowledged any prior wrestling backgrounds for Tully Blanchard & Arn Anderson but he never changed their names or characters, likewise he kept everything in tact for the gimmick of The Road Warriors. Ric Flair was the first time Vince, Jr actually acknowledged a talent had wrestled elsewhere but even then NWA/WCW was never mentioned by name, Flair was referred to as an "international wrestling star who had won titles around the world and has now come to the WWF to win the biggest title of all, the World Wrestling Federation Title". It was also the only time before the heyday of The Monday Night Wars and the immediate aftermath of the purchase of WCW that a wrestler's prior career was mentioned on air as part of their promotion while working for WWE.

Likewise, as the other promotions slowly faded WCW remained, but largely ingnored past histories of its talent outside WCW. This was amended for Savage & Hogan, largely to play off their WWE feuds vs Ric Flair after he recruited them to sign with WCW. While WCW referenced past history from WWE in regards to these three with each other it pretty much ignored anyone's else's non WCW history pretty consistently, until at least the hey day of the Monday Night Wars (the best example being Kevin Nash year long undefeated streak as WWE Champ being used in promoting Starrcade 98 vs Goldbberg, as well as prior history between Brett Hart & Flair to sell the Souled Out 98 PPV).

With WCW out of the picture almost 15 years now and virtually all of the big names from that era basically gone (Hogan, Flair, Hart, HBK, Nash, Goldberg, Austin, Foley, Rock, all done - Taker & Sting almost done, etc) there really hasn't been much need to acknowledge performers past non WWE history on TV.

The reason is simple - the overwhelming majority, and I mean overwhelming, like virtually all, of the normal wrestling audience DOESNT WATCH any other wrestling. Even at its lowest point WCW was drawing 2 to 3 times the ratings TNA gets, and they get much higher numbers than anyone else, while only drawing a third to a fourth of what WWE is getting. Casual fans may have switched allegiance periodically between the companies but they watched, or at least were familiar with both and knew who the stars were and what their gimmicks were. Nowadays if WWE brings in someone from Ring Of Honor only about a tenth of their normal audience knows who that person was before joining WWE, so why bother being forced into using that same name & gimmick if WWE doesn't like it for that performer, virtually no one watching even knows what that performer used to be. Also, by WWE acknowledging the past career and achievements of wrestlers they sing from TNA or Ring Of Honor or other unknown indies they give major cred to those competitors, basically telling their audience that the talent in these companies is good enough we are signing them. You might as well ask your audience to watch those shows (if they can find them on TV). You don't build your brand and maintain market dominance by giving free publicity and credibility to your competitors.

In the case of the NWA and later WCW Vince & WWE couldn't avoid it. Too many people watched both shows to unilaterally just change wrestlers names and characters and never acknowledge who they were. Plus, the WCW audience was so big WWE potentially could reap a benefit numbers wise by signing top talents and using them in their established gimmicks with their histories on their shows, their fans from WCW might switch over and watch. What is to be gained by acknowledging the career of some guy from ROH, no one is watching them, and the few who do are wrestling die hards who probably watch you already, in very small numbers too boot.

This is why you don't see character pasts from other promotions being used anymore by WWE
 
It doesn't matter that they're not home grown WWE talent, there are very few of them around, most of the active wrestlers on the roster came from other promotions. To say that their background means nothing is shit.

I agree 100%, but then there's this fact; I don't work for the WWE.

The WWE believe that background matters, but not the same way that you think it matters. As you likely know; the WWE seems like they're turned off by talent that made their name in another promotion.

I think that the WWE likes to hold their talent hostage, so to speak. If you're a name like Daniel Bryan, you could easily get booked anywhere if the WWE suddenly let you go. This reality leaves the WWE with few ways to leverage a contract with you that most benefits them, they need you more than you need them.

If your only experience is from under the umbrella of Titan Sports; you'll be granted some primo moments on tv, though you'll be more likely to have to play ball if your only options are their way or the highway. Randy and John could easily get booked anywhere as well, but they might be made examples of if there's little chance that the WWE would take them back.

For us fans, it's amazing when we can get a performer who's new to us on our program who already has over a decade of experience to work with. The fact that we haven't seen much of them from where they're from means that almost every spot they execute will be fresh in our eyes, thus we fans appreciate them being from different organizations.

For the WWE, having a relatively fresh performer with tons of experience is a typical means of pushing their loyal homegrown talent by making the outsider job to them. The WWE appreciates performers coming in from different organizations in a very different way than we fans do, now they have fresh meat to feed their golden children.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Members online

No members online now.

Forum statistics

Threads
174,826
Messages
3,300,733
Members
21,726
Latest member
chrisxenforo
Back
Top