Did they miss the boat: The Zack Ryder edition

[Y2J-LionTamer-Y2J]

Welcome to what will possibly be a new series of posts if this one catches on enough.

The brass ring,becomeing a mega star,that magical moment in a superstars career that can shoot them straight to the top of the card.

IMO there is not enough serious talk about if a superstar COULD have already reached their personal potential and had their moment whether or not if that maximum potential which would obviously differ from star to star would propel them to the heights of a Stone Cold Steve Austin or just place them in a mid card role for the rest of their career but at least at the top of their personal potential,yet WWE just plain missed the boat.

Today I would like to focus on Long Island Iced-Z Zack Rider.

Zack Rider gained popularity on his own about 2 years ago with his Z-True Long Island Story youtube show. The Rider revolution began.
Zack Rider chants were brakeing out during PPV matchs as well as just on RAW or Smackdown. WE WANT RIDER was trending world wide week after week after week on Twitter,Rider signs were popping up in every crowd worldwide as his merch was selling like hot cakes.
Rider was even booked to win the U.S Title from Ziggler who WWE OBVIOUSLY has and at the time had big plans for and then suddenly...
Zack lost the title to Swagger and entered into a program in which Eve screwed him continuously and Kane made him look like a weenie.

Questions.

1.Could Zack Rider EVER get back the steam he had and possibly become the star it seemed he could have been before they missed the boat?
2.If the trigger was pulled at the possible height of Zack Riders popularity where would he be now?
3. Finnaly and perhaps most fun of all,feel free to fantasy book how you would have pulled the trigger on Zack Rider at the height of his popularity and how far you think he could have gone if booked properly.


My personal thoughts are that with all the popularity he had they should have pulled a mager heel turn. The fact is he was very popular whether you enjoy Rider or not and these days the fans love a heel more then most get behind any face. I think they misse the boat.

 

[andrewp488]

Well first off its ryder not rider and secondly no I don't think he could get his steam back he is so far down the card now and if triggered he would be in the main event picture right now week in week out and for the third one I'd say he has a major heel turn turns on cena end up in a programme with him lasts 2 - 3 months great matches I'd say as ryder can wrestle and then he could have moved on to smackdown and challenged for the whc title I honestly think he could have had a good run with that title I love ryder I think its a disgrace he has fallen so far down the card but anyway that's what my answer would be to your questions

 

[zwbruno]

I don't think Ryder could ever regain all of his popularity, but if they were to push him and put him on TV, people would cheer the hell out of him. He is still very over even though he hasn't been really used in months.

I would like to see him turn heel and align himself with Ziggler. They are "rivals" in the WWE, but it's quite obvious that they are at least friendly outside the ring, so it would make sense to some degree. I also wouldn't mind to see him vie for the Tag Titles in a heel team, where's Big O?

 

[justinept]

1.Could Zack Rider EVER get back the steam he had and possibly become the star it seemed he could have been before they missed the boat?

Assuming I thought Ryder could've been a star to begin with, I'd say yes - the steam can be regained. A number of guys have had stop and go careers early before breaking out big. If you think Ryder had that potential at one point, then there's no reason he can't regain that in the future.

2.If the trigger was pulled at the possible height of Zack Riders popularity where would he be now?

He'd be in the midcard - in similar fashion to Kofi, perpetually in the mix for the US or IC title while getting the occasional bump into a bigger program.

3. Finnaly and perhaps most fun of all,feel free to fantasy book how you would have pulled the trigger on Zack Rider at the height of his popularity and how far you think he could have gone if booked properly.

I would have had him go over Kane at WrestleMania last year. It seemed to be setting up that way, this time last year. Kane was stalking Ryder and Eve - he cost Ryder the US Title - and he was destroying the smaller competitor pretty much weekly. It would've been big for Ryder's momentum to wrestle Kane at 'Mania and go over.

...Instead, Kane injured Ryder. No match was ever set up. And to make matters worse, Ryder was made to look like a chump when Eve - randomly - turned on him in a backstage segment (that he wasn't even a part of.) The two went their separate ways --- Kane had a throw-away match against Orton at 'Mania while Ryder was again made to look like a fool in his match at 'Mania ...

Now, I'm not one of those people that think Ryder has main event potential - but I certainly think the WWE dropped the ball with him. Whether you like him or hate him, there's no denying the pop the guy received in 2011 - no denying the following he created for himself - and no denying the merchandise he pushed.

Instead of capitalizing on that, and maximizing on the potential profit, the WWE buried him. After ending 2011 on a high note, the only thing the WWE asked him to do in 2012 was to put over Kane and Eve.

 

[MizMark11]

Firstly, how the hell did you put Ryder in the title, but then Rider each time after?

Anyways...

1) Ryder can definitely get the steam back. He's what, 27 years old? That's still young in wrestling years. All he needs is the right gimmick. Ryder has charisma, it's just that his gimmick is dead because it's out of date and not as exciting since WWE buried his YT channel before it eventually ended.

2) If the trigger was pulled back when he was US champ, I believe he would still be a relevant midcarder, maybe upper midcarder. It's hard to say, but I'd say he may even be heel by now if they let him run wild.

3) I would have kept Ryder as US champ and eventually turned him heel against John Cena when they used to hang out. He could have gotten jealous or whatever of Cena and just go insane. Drop the gimmick and just become a bitter asshole because he believes that he was owed something do to his level of popularity. Actually, it's not too late for that. Ryder can still brag about his Twitter success and everything and just say that it's whoevers fault for essentially burying him.

And please, proofread before posting.

 

[GameOver]

I don't think he ever had it, the only reason he got a push is because people on youtube voted and WWE wanted to embrace youtube, there's no reason he should ever have gotten past the IC/US title and he's still a goof and not believable as a worthy champion. It was fun why it lasted but i'm certainly not phased that he has gone back into obscurity, he's lucky he even got what he got.

 

[Jimmy Carter]

What boat was there to miss? While Ryder has a vocal online following, His WWE onscreen character is a bland imitation of what he projects on his show. The Long Island Iced Z one-note bro seems like a demotion compared to his Edgehead days. Now he languishes in the same comic foil limbo as Santino. Fans still dig him, so there may be some potential down the line. As for now he doesn't warrant a spot beyond the IC title, though anything is possible with the right gimmick. Right now he doesn't have it.

 

[Da Big Champ]

Are You Serious Bro? WOO WOO WOO You Know It. The guy was getting a great reaction and could have had a decent feud but instead was stuck being a pawn in the Cena-Kane feud and a heel turn for Eve.

He doesn't have 'the look' or 'the build' but he could be a decent mid card player instead of a comedy jobber. With the right gimmick he could be a huge star and in a good position.

 

[NotJerryMcDevitt]

1.Could Zack Rider EVER get back the steam he had and possibly become the star it seemed he could have been before they missed the boat?
2.If the trigger was pulled at the possible height of Zack Riders popularity where would he be now?
3. Finnaly and perhaps most fun of all,feel free to fantasy book how you would have pulled the trigger on Zack Rider at the height of his popularity and how far you think he could have gone if booked properly.

Regarding the first question, no I do not believe that he could ever regain the "steam" that he had during his initial run because quite frankly his gimmick and ability did not and do not suffice.

His initial run was what it was, he gained popularity by pulling himself out of the masses and I will admit that is an impressive feat. However, a comedy gimmick based on popular culture does not seem to have a long shelf life.

And think about it, did he have a good run due to his own efforts ? Yes he did.

Imagine where he would've ended without his own efforts, either on the indies or as part of Aces and Eights (Which is worse ?). But he became popular and twisted the WWE's arm to such an extend that they gave him a US title run which quite frankly puts him above the level of various other members of the roster or wrestling in general. He was prominentely featured prominently on TV for weeks alongside the biggest wrestling star in the world John Cena, what more can you wish for ? Brutus Beefcake is stilling off that experience today.

And that's who Zack Ryder resembles a lot, Brutus Beefcake.

A guy who was made a ridicolous gimmick work and hung out with a major superstar but did not have the ability to become one himself.

Short lived popularity alone does not warrant World Title runs and WM main events.

So now to your second question, which I believe I answered already with my previous comments but let's just reiterate.

I honestly believe that he would be exactly where he is right now, but if you also included possible gimmick changes in there I of course couldn't make any predicitions of theories based on those because I can't interpret into the blue.

The Long Island Z gimmick however does and did not have the substance to carry him to stardom and quite frankly he himself did not have that and still doesn't show any signs of it.

And I will restrain myself from making any bookings because I would just make him lose to Slater on a constant basis anyway.

 

[lowandmighty]

I never knew there were "we want Ryder" chants happening a couple of years ago, maybe I wasn't paying enough attention. I've never seen his youtube show either and I'm not going to start watching it now so I can't comment on that and compare it to his on screen character.
All I can go on is his on screen character and quite frankly, he's mediocre even compared to Dolph Ziggler who is actually starting to grow on me despite comments I've made about him in the past.

Ryder did a fucking good job of getting destroyed by Kane. There was a bit once where he looked really intimidated by Mark Henry too. Perhaps thats all he's good for.

So to answer the questions; I think its too late for him to recapture his steam because if it didn't turn into anything the first time it's extremely unlikely that it will a second.

If the trigger was pulled? Well he'd be dead or at least have been to hospital. Ok sorry not a good joke. If they decided to do something with him at the time of his peak popularity, he might have ended up kind of like the Miz or Jack Swagger. By that I mean he would be a mid carder with a big achievement to his name and not much more.

I'm not good at fantasy story lines I tend to think story lines are best left to the professionals rather than me but I will humor you:

I would have had him end up winning the united states title from Dolph Ziggler humiliating him in front of Vickie Guerrero and everything. Then I'd have him also win the intercontinental title, making him a double champion and start to appear more and more up himself until it was finally revealed that he and Vickie were banging the whole time. So it ends up that vickie had really helped him to all his success thus turning him heel. Obviously once this is revealed he'd be subject to losing his titles to the next two most popular guys and then see if anyone still cared about him and if they did maybe involve him in a world championship feud. I'd never actually have him come out on top though.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

I think people are making far too big of a deal out of Ryder. Ryder is someone that has potential, has shown a lot of charisma and is pretty good inside the ring. However, I've seen absolutely nothing out of Ryder to suggest that he ever was the next big thing. On these forums, there are usually two extreme responses taken by a large number of posters whenever a wrestler gets pushed in WWE. One response is to jack up the ability of the wrestler being pushed to such a degree that expectations of said wrestler are beyond unrealistic. The other response is for haters & critics to come out in droves to belittle said wrestler to the point of trying to give the idea that the wrestler has no ability whatsoever.

In the case of Zack Ryder, in my eyes, it's been the former. Since Ryder was pushed very late in 2011 through the early part of 2012, a lot of people were already hyping the guy as the next big main event star. Ryder has a good deal of ability but a lot of people have overlooked the fact that his character is primarily a harmless, comedic babyface. Wrestlers whose characters are primarily within the realm of comedy almost never make it to the upper level of the roster. With his current character, Zack Ryder is firmly entrenched within the mid-card picture and that's where he's going to stay just like Santino Marella and Brodus Clay.

Also, even before WWE cooled on Ryder, he was already losing steam with fans. He garnered a huge response in the beginning but a lot of WWE fans saw that Ryder's gimmick was basically a one trick pony. Ryder was fun to watch in his matches and could be entertaining, but not nearly to the point in which people were suddenly clamoring for him to be pushed to the moon as they originally were. I remember that a lot of people on the forums were making the same observations.

Has WWE missed the boat with Ryder? I don't think so. There's still plenty of time for Ryder to potentially reach the levels that some think him capable of reaching. As I said, Ryder's character is a comedy babyface and comedy babyfaces almost never rise above the mid-card. Santino didn't, Brodus Clay hasn't, Honky Tonk Man didn't and Ryder won't either with his current character. Also, Zack Ryder is only 27 years old. Barring severe injury or a massive falling out with the WWE brass, there's plenty of time to overhaul Ryder's character and for him to show whether he truly has what it takes to be a major player in WWE.

 

[Mustang Sally]

Wrestlers whose characters are primarily within the realm of comedy almost never make it to the upper level of the roster.

True.....and remember, the company only has room for one or two of those guys on the roster. Santino seems to be the favored clown of WWE, and I think a lot of folks missed the irony of he and Zack being installed as a tag team for a brief time. (I still wish they had named the team "Send in the Clowns").

But I still believe everything that Zack attained, and then lost, revolved around Vince McMahon. I would think Vince absolutely detested the way Zack gained his own notoriety using the Internet. Had McMahon not been the master promoter he is, he would have happily future endeavored Zack for going outside the company to promote himself. Instead, Vince realized a good thing when he saw it, allowing Zack some leniency and even featuring him for a brief period. Then, Vince's plan was to demote the guy again once his popularity spiked and started dropping. Give McMahon's desire for control of every facet of his business, I think this is a reasonable guess.

Can Zack Ryder get a push again? Sure, if Vince desires. As it is, the whole self-promotion thing got him fame he wouldn't have achieved had he not done it. Still, I wouldn't be surprised if McMahon issued a warning to the rest of the employees not to think they can get ahead by trying the same thing. Vince will adapt.....but only so far.

 

[cstatus94]

I will say it might be slightly harder to get his Steam Back just because of the fact Z True Long Island Story is no longer on. I remember that was one of the things I loved about him watching his matches and then watching the show. And Zack Ryder is undeniable the reason I started tweeting during Raw and or SD. He brought social media to a new level for WWE and hardly gets credited for it or much of anything for it now a days.

 

[Y2J-LionTamer-Y2J]

True.....and remember, the company only has room for one or two of those guys on the roster. Santino seems to be the favored clown of WWE, and I think a lot of folks missed the irony of he and Zack being installed as a tag team for a brief time. (I still wish they had named the team "Send in the Clowns").

But I still believe everything that Zack attained, and then lost, revolved around Vince McMahon. I would think Vince absolutely detested the way Zack gained his own notoriety using the Internet. Had McMahon not been the master promoter he is, he would have happily future endeavored Zack for going outside the company to promote himself. Instead, Vince realized a good thing when he saw it, allowing Zack some leniency and even featuring him for a brief period. Then, Vince's plan was to demote the guy again once his popularity spiked and started dropping. Give McMahon's desire for control of every facet of his business, I think this is a reasonable guess.

Can Zack Ryder get a push again? Sure, if Vince desires. As it is, the whole self-promotion thing got him fame he wouldn't have achieved had he not done it. Still, I wouldn't be surprised if McMahon issued a warning to the rest of the employees not to think they can get ahead by trying the same thing. Vince will adapt.....but only so far.

A good point. If you notice tho,around the time Zack Ryder got so popular on his own via youtube isn't that about the time Vince adapted so to speak to social media. Twitter,youtube shows,tout,the WWE APP.
Does WWE owe Zack Ryder for showing them the power social media can have? I'm sure without Ryder they would have done it anyways but is it just a coincidence?

 

[justinept]

I've seen absolutely nothing out of Ryder to suggest that he ever was the next big thing.

I would completely agree with this. He was never the next big thing - yet you can't deny the reaction he received in late 2011 or the merchandise he was pushing. Though not at a Cena level, there was money to be made on Ryder.

I think Mustang Sally hit the nail right on the head. Ryder got over despite Vince McMahon, and the boss hated being wrong about him. As a result, he booked the guy into irrelevancy in early 2012 so that he could show people that he gave him a shot, but that Ryder just wasn't good enough.

Also, even before WWE cooled on Ryder, he was already losing steam with fans. He garnered a huge response in the beginning but a lot of WWE fans saw that Ryder's gimmick was basically a one trick pony.

It's tough to say which happened first. He got a huge pop in November 2011 at MSG ... and that pop led to him winning the US Title at TLC the next month. From that point on, he was booked to look weak, cowardly and foolish.

Eight days after winning the title, he started chasing Eve. The next week, Kane started stalking him, and instead of standing up to Kane - as any face would do - Ryder ran ... only he couldn't run well enough, and Kane continually beat him down. Then, on January 16, less than a month after winning the title, Ryder dropped the belt to Swagger. He never even defended it at a pay-per view.

Kane then broke Ryder's back ... at which point Ryder was pretty much used only to advance Cena's storyline with Kane. Eve then turned on Ryder, making him look like a fool. So, if you're keeping score, after winning the belt in December - Ryder spent January looking like a coward, a fool and failing to defend his US Title even once. He wasn't booked for the Rumble.

He was written off television all February with the exception of one Raw where - heartbroken over seeing Cena kiss Eve - he smacked Cena. Once again, he was left off the pay-per view in February.

He eventually returned to Raw in March where he immediately forgave Eve ... solidifying his role as a fool. He was given a spot on Teddy Long's team at WrestleMania, but his infatuation with Eve cost his team the win.

So while the fans did eventually stop caring about Ryder - I'd say a lot of them stopped caring because he was booked into irrelevancy. It's tough to care about - or even notice - the dopey, cowardly face that runs from a fight, falls for the "bitch" and never overcomes his shortcomings.

 

[Sedated]

There was never a boat to get on.

Even if WWE pushed him he'd have lost steam on his own. Terrible gimic that would get old amazingly fast, awkward looking, and never showed anything special in the ring.

This is how typical guys the IWC hypes go. Swagger, Miz, Ryder. All vastly over rated by the IWC and look where they are now.

 

[NotJerryMcDevitt]

I think people are making far too big of a deal out of Ryder. Ryder is someone that has potential, has shown a lot of charisma and is pretty good inside the ring. However, I've seen absolutely nothing out of Ryder to suggest that he ever was the next big thing.

My point exactly.

Zack Ryder defied the machinery and created his own character but there is not enough substance behind him to warrant any major pushes.

A lot of people bring up the momentum he initially picked up and the merchandise that he sold but that ran out didn't it ? People stopped chanting for him and his merchandise seized to sell as well as it did.

However that does not put Ryder in any negative category, he is a midcarder and nothing more and more importantely nothing less.

How many of the people that we now regard as major stars were never more than midcarders in the WWE/F ? Did Owen Hart ever achieve anything beyond the midcard (in the WWE!) ? Did Ricky Steamboat ever make it to a Main Event push in the WWE ? As far as I can remember no.

Just because Zack Ryder is not alongside Cena and Punk on billboards doesn't mean that he is not of value anymore. Wrestling is not only black and white and it never was not even in the WWE.

 

[Sedated]

My point exactly.

Zack Ryder defied the machinery and created his own character but there is not enough substance behind him to warrant any major pushes.

A lot of people bring up the momentum he initially picked up and the merchandise that he sold but that ran out didn't it ? People stopped chanting for him and his merchandise seized to sell as well as it did.

However that does not put Ryder in any negative category, he is a midcarder and nothing more and more importantely nothing less.

How many of the people that we now regard as major stars were never more than midcarders in the WWE/F ? Did Owen Hart ever achieve anything beyond the midcard (in the WWE!) ? Did Ricky Steamboat ever make it to a Main Event push in the WWE ? As far as I can remember no.

Just because Zack Ryder is not alongside Cena and Punk on billboards doesn't mean that he is not of value anymore. Wrestling is not only black and white and it never was not even in the WWE.

Wait, what? Are you actually comparing people like Owen Hart/Steambot to Zack Ryder? lol

The mid card used to be made up of guys with tons of talent. Mr. Perfect, Razor Ramone, Owen Hart, Piper.. the list goes on an on of top notch guys who never won the big one and were generally considered mid card. The mid card of yester year is the Main Event/Superstardom level of today.

The comparison just doesn't work.

 

[ultramattman]

Also, even before WWE cooled on Ryder, he was already losing steam with fans. He garnered a huge response in the beginning but a lot of WWE fans saw that Ryder's gimmick was basically a one trick pony. Ryder was fun to watch in his matches and could be entertaining, but not nearly to the point in which people were suddenly clamoring for him to be pushed to the moon as they originally were. I remember that a lot of people on the forums were making the same observations.

This is what many people either don't realize or aren't taking into account. Once the Ryder hype train reached its peak, people began to lose interest. This was already happening BEFORE WWE started squashing him. Besides, the whole Jersey Shore thing is OVER, it was already on the way out when the Ryder's rise began.

 

[DirtyD79]

I would completely agree with this. He was never the next big thing - yet you can't deny the reaction he received in late 2011 or the merchandise he was pushing. Though not at a Cena level, there was money to be made on Ryder.

I think Mustang Sally hit the nail right on the head. Ryder got over despite Vince McMahon, and the boss hated being wrong about him. As a result, he booked the guy into irrelevancy in early 2012 so that he could show people that he gave him a shot, but that Ryder just wasn't good enough.



It's tough to say which happened first. He got a huge pop in November 2011 at MSG ... and that pop led to him winning the US Title at TLC the next month. From that point on, he was booked to look weak, cowardly and foolish.

Eight days after winning the title, he started chasing Eve. The next week, Kane started stalking him, and instead of standing up to Kane - as any face would do - Ryder ran ... only he couldn't run well enough, and Kane continually beat him down. Then, on January 16, less than a month after winning the title, Ryder dropped the belt to Swagger. He never even defended it at a pay-per view.

Kane then broke Ryder's back ... at which point Ryder was pretty much used only to advance Cena's storyline with Kane. Eve then turned on Ryder, making him look like a fool. So, if you're keeping score, after winning the belt in December - Ryder spent January looking like a coward, a fool and failing to defend his US Title even once. He wasn't booked for the Rumble.

He was written off television all February with the exception of one Raw where - heartbroken over seeing Cena kiss Eve - he smacked Cena. Once again, he was left off the pay-per view in February.

He eventually returned to Raw in March where he immediately forgave Eve ... solidifying his role as a fool. He was given a spot on Teddy Long's team at WrestleMania, but his infatuation with Eve cost his team the win.

So while the fans did eventually stop caring about Ryder - I'd say a lot of them stopped caring because he was booked into irrelevancy. It's tough to care about - or even notice - the dopey, cowardly face that runs from a fight, falls for the "bitch" and never overcomes his shortcomings.

Exactly nobody could respect a guy like that. He looked pathetic. Like the kind of guy who would drive a girl across town so she can "see a friend". They should have had him stand up to Kane or get jealous and turn against Cena completely.

 

[dotty_84]

To answer questions in order.

1. No i don't think he will get that steam back again, unless creative went all out.
2. Possibly a solid mid carder, he has the gimmick moves and although cheesy, he could have been there.
3. When he came back from the Neck/Back injury at the hands of Kane, he could have had a grudge feud culminating at WM. People would say it's a waste but i'd have preferred that than a rushed, non sensible feud with Orton Orton draws more but i'm sure Ryders exposure could have led to him selling a lot of merch.

For a guy who gets used very very sparingly on Raw or SD! he has a lot of merch on WWE Shop probably the most outside any of the big names in WWE.

 

[CrucifiedRaven]

I don't think so. I don't think he would have "made it".

I wasn't really watching when he "got hot" but everything about him now tells me he wouldn't have sustained it.

His "jersey shore" gimmick screams nothing but jobber. And I personally couldn't care less about him.

That's not to say WWE did the right thing though. They're perpetually bad at capitalizing on things at the right time. They should have pushed him into a singles title and given him a good run instead of pulling the plug. I just don't think he would have done much with it... He'd probably be right where he is right now anyways. Or maybe slightly higher (see Kofi Kingston).

 

[FiveTymeWCWChamp]

He was a hot as anyone in the business! They could have ran with it but they killed off before it died off. Obviously you don't remember Ryder or Riot! He was so over! He did what the WWE wants people to do and get themselves over! If this Fandango guy gets a legit push for some lame ass gimmick and Ryder is let go? I call BS! Maybe Ryder goes to TNA and becomes a Tag Team with Robbie E! Or stay in the E and reform a Tag Team with Curt Hawkins. Do something while he still has some appeal!

 

[BaconBits]

He'd be way more over if he had a dance off with Robbie T...

Oh, wait.

Zach Ryder is a decent wrestler. He's got some charisma. His gimmick is dated, though, and guidos aren't "cool" anymore.

I'm sure they'll probably keep him around, but until he changes his character to something more current, he's going to be stuck in low to midcard heaven. I'd like to see him get a little more serious so people actually take him, well, seriously.

 

[deslok]

He is like the 2010's version of the Brooklyn Brawler, with a reality TV overtone. I think the WWE sorta realized this, and decided no. It isn't worth having someone who will be looked at in the same fashion as mullet hair cuts, or 90's awful grunge music at some point in time.