Dana: Machida and Tito "Must Win"

[Turd Ferguson]

FORT HOOD, Texas – The UFC's light heavyweight division has long been considered by many to be the promotion's most competitive. And Dana White believes that is the case – and that some of his most notable fighters at 205 have crucial bouts coming up.

The UFC president, speaking Friday at a Q&A session for enlisted military personnel on the Fort Hood base, noted that former champions Lyoto Machida and Tito Ortiz are both in must-win situations in their next fights.

Machida beat Rashad Evans to win the light heavyweight title at UFC 98. He defended the belt with a controversial decision win over Mauricio "Shogun" Rua at UFC 104, but lost it to him in their rematch at UFC 113 last May – his first career loss. Machida followed up that knockout setback with a split decision loss to Quinton "Rampage" Jackson at UFC 123 in November.

Machida will fight UFC Hall of Famer Randy Couture, a former two-division champion, at UFC 129 in Toronto in April. A loss to Couture would be three straight for the Brazilian – which often signals a quick release from the UFC.

"He's had two losses in a row," White told the troops. "Right after he won the title, (UFC on-air analyst Joe) Rogan said this is 'The Machida Era,' and I thought so too. Then Shogun beat him, and then he just lost to Rampage. Now he's fighting Randy Couture in Toronto – and this is a must-win for him."

In addition, White said Ortiz, once one of the most dominant champions in UFC history, could be reaching the end of his career. Ortiz is scheduled for a main event fight on the UFC's Fight Night 24 card in Seattle in March against Antonio Rogerio Nogueira.

"Tito's got to win this fight to stay in the UFC," White said. "If he loses this fight, he'll probably retire."

Tito needing to win is obvious. The guy hasn't won since beating Shamrock in 2006, even though he pretty much beat Rashad Evans in a fight that went to a draw. I also thought he took the Forrest Griffin fight as well. This is a very winnable fight for him against Lil Nog, who is susceptible to the takedown, and if Tito doesn't win, then something will have to give.

Machida on the other hand, the fact that he's in danger of getting cut is very interesting, but perhaps in Dana's mind, he's lost three in a row. He definitely should have lost the first Shogun fight, and that KO Shogun gave him was brutal. Then he dropped a close decision to Rampage, and Dana was upset that Rampage was being modest about winning, because he thought that Rampage was the clear winner.

I also would have thought that if Machida did lose to Couture, that he'd have one last shot against a "gimme" opponent. Even Jardine had four losses in a row before getting cut. Perhaps it was these comments by Machida after UFC 123 that set Dana off (in response to Dana thinking Rampage clearly won)...

"As for my boss. I don’t want to waste my time talking about him, bad or good. As he already said, he’s the president and he is the boss. Who am I to argue with someone who talks like that and thinks he’s always right."

Regardless of his comments, Machida is still one of the best fighters in the world. He'd be a huge boost for Strikeforce. There is no shame in losing to Shogun, Rampage, and possibly Couture. Do you think Dana would actually cut him?

 

[INDYjon22]

I can definitely see how both guys jobs are at risk. As you pointed out Machida has lost 2 fights in a row and as far as we know Dana may actually consider it a 3 fight losing streak considering how controversial the first Shogun fight was. I would also like to point out, while Randy Couture is a good fight, should Machida lose to him I think that would be grounds for termination. Couture is a definite step down in competition from Rampage or Shogun. Couture is a good fight but Machida should win and if he doesn't then I agree with him getting his walking papers.

As for Tito, well that one is pretty obvious. He hasn't won in years, even if some of his loses are controversial they are still loses. He is hanging on to his job by sheer name value. I like Tito but he has been in dire need of a win for a year and a half and I actually see him as the more likely of he and Machida to get released. Lil Nog is a good fighter with great power in his hands. Nog can be taken down, and fairly easily, but all it takes is one solid connection to Titos jaw and it should be over. Nog/Ortiz is a much harder fight to call then Couture/Machida.

 

[ArcherCC]

Dana has stated on several occasions he doesn't like Machida, combined with Machida's 2 (3 as far as Dana is concerned) fight losing streak, if Machida can't win this, he shouldn't be in the UFC. Personally i lean heavily in favor of Randy in this fight,just stylistically it favors Randy.

And Tito, oh god Tito, it's been since 2006 since he has won a fight, given complete and utter BS reason why he lost (honestly no medical will clear you to fight with a fractured skull, please be more creative next time Tito.) Tito should have been cut long ago, but he has a great personality for selling tickets.

 

[Final Form Snyper.]

Tito Ortiz - How can this man still have a place with a stacked division such as the Light Heavyweights with those like Rashad Evans, Mauricio Rua, Rich Franklin, Quinton Jackson and future stars like Jon Jones and Ryan Bader. Hhow can he be relevant to this current time? Tito was always a wrestler first and foremost, with a powerful Ground and Pound game but these days being a mostly one dimensional fighter just isn't going to cut it. I get that he is a big name who can still sell a PPV, but when is enough..... enough.

He hasn't won a fight since beating a nursing home patient in Ken Shamrock which was 10/10/06. That is a long time being that he has only fought 5 times too adds to his declining fighting career.

Lyoto Machida - Imagine being the guy that was coined to have started a new era in the Light Heavyweight division..... to lose your UFC contract 3 fights later, well to Lyoto this could be a real threat to him. He is a greatly skilled fighter who is well rounded, but there seems to be something that hasn't surfaced yet because how can a young Champion fighter who was undefeated only 18 months ago with a Championship and all the glory that comes with it.

 

[Uncle Chester]

I greatly believe Dana White is majorly bullshitting on Machida. White would be stupid to release such an iconic and recognized star like Machida. Mchida's name value would be extremely valuable to any fight promoter including UFC's main competition: Strikeforce. A big name acquisition like Machida would greatly improve Strikeforce's drawing power meaning many fans would tune in to it's events to see Machida's activity outside of the UFC and naturally if Strikeforce puts out an entratining product new fans it will gain.

 

[ArcherCC]

I greatly believe Dana White is majorly bullshitting on Machida. White would be stupid to release such an iconic and recognized star like Machida. Mchida's name value would be extremely valuable to any fight promoter including UFC's main competition: Strikeforce. A big name acquisition like Machida would greatly improve Strikeforce's drawing power meaning many fans would tune in to it's events to see Machida's activity outside of the UFC and naturally if Strikeforce puts out an entratining product new fans it will gain.

Actually they won't lose much, look at the PPV numbers for shows Machida has been the headlining name on, the numbers suck, very few of the casual fans know who he is, let alone want to watch him. His PPV draw numbers are less then Strikeforce's LHW champ draw numbers so that would not be a big deal on that count. Now if he does get let go, and signs with Strikeforce and ends up cleaning out the LHW division there, well damn another prop to UFC as they can look at the world and say "Wow a guy we cut, who lost 3 straight, including once to an aging Randy just walked through your whole division, you guys are crap.' And everyone's gotta agree thats exactly what Dana White and the UFC machine would do.

 

[INDYjon22]

I greatly believe Dana White is majorly bullshitting on Machida. White would be stupid to release such an iconic and recognized star like Machida. Mchida's name value would be extremely valuable to any fight promoter including UFC's main competition: Strikeforce. A big name acquisition like Machida would greatly improve Strikeforce's drawing power meaning many fans would tune in to it's events to see Machida's activity outside of the UFC and naturally if Strikeforce puts out an entratining product new fans it will gain.

Yeah, what Archer said is true. If numbers were the all important factor in keeping one of these two guys around then it would benefit Tito more the Machida. Tito is a drawing machine, and even though he isn't as big as he once was, the casual fan knows his name and will shell out money to see him fight. Not to mention Ortiz is probably to more iconic and recognizable of the two. Both guys would be decent additions to the basically none existent Strikeforce Light Heavyweight division, something I don't know if Dana has thoroughly thought through. While I see why both guys are on the chopping block they aren't bad fights, with the exception of the KO loss to Rua, Machida had a very good fight with Rampage and it isn't like Oetiz is getting KO'd in each of his fights. They would be good building blocks for SF if cut.

 

[Mekanik Kommandoh]

I honestly don't think that Machida is in any danger of being cut. For one, he's probably going to defeat Randy. Plus Dana White was pretty vague in his statement. I first took it as if Machida doesn't win, he's out of title contention in the foreseeable future. Of course, I could be wrong and a loss against Couture, as great as he is, isn't going to look good on Machida's resume, but I still don't think he's going to be cut if he ends up losing. His only truly convincing loss was the rematch against Shogun and the Rampage fight could have gone either way, though I personally thought the judges made the right call. I just don't see Machida being cut, but we'll just have to wait and see.

Tito, on the other hand, has been on borrowed time for a good while. This is a winnable fight for him and if he pulls it off, great for him. If he can't, he should get the axe or simply retire, bankable name or not.

 

[RAUl Mf. L0wk0]

I honestly dont see why Dana would even consider to let go of Machida. Machida would only boost other promotions LHW rosters, like if Machida would join StrikeForce which would be good for them especially with the likes of Dan Henderson, Gegard Mousasi, and King Mo. I mean i know Dana White isnt exactly the biggest Lyoto fan, but Machida is still top competition and is a handful with anyone in the UFC LHW divsion so i wouldnt let him go. He's coming off of 2 loses which I'd like to say the Rampage contest was close in my eyes and the other fight was a Title defense. And a loss to Couture shouldnt be shameful, but im pretty sure Machida would take the fight. While i do this is a must win for Lyoto Machida to stay in title contention, but he shouldnt be let go anytime soon!

andd Tito, well hes had what 5 losses in a row? The only reason hes around because hes still a big draw for the UFC, but i couldnt care less if they kept him around because he cant hang with the new breed of LHW's and he should retire. I would be shocked if he beats Lil' Nog.

 

[Final Form Snyper.]

He isn't a bad fighter to market.

UFC 104: Lyoto Machida(c) vs Mauricio Rua was at around 500,000 buys. But how much of this is contributed by Shogun's presence?

UFC 113: Lyoto Machida(c) vs Mauricio Rua was around the 520,000 buy mark, this is a disappointment in my opinion because of the first fight ending, the heat around it and the hpe coming in...... I was thinking to more like 650,000.

UFC 123 Rampage vs Lyoto Machida was again around the 500,000 buys, which isn't too bad of a number for not having acha,pionship fight but also is a tad under the expected with BJ Penn and Matt Hughes going for the third match of the trilogy.

 

[ArcherCC]

Honestly most his numbers from 104 & 113 I would give to Shogun being in those two fights, as for 123, Penn/hughes was a much more hyped fight then the 'main event' (I don;t care if UFC called it this, it was not worth paying for that fight as a main event) I mean the TV spots, radio, all of them hyped Penn Vs Hughes more then Machaida Vs Rampage.

 

[Uncle Phatso]

How the fuck do you say win or go to Machida? He brings one of the best offences in the Ufc right now and is a master in Bjj! He loses his title and then loses a great fight in a decision and your telling him to beat one of the Ufc's most notable names ever or basically your done? Thats nuts Dana, I love to watch Lyoto fight, he's a little bit Meh at times, but thats his style. You can't make a mistake with this dude, or your done. Simple as that, if you were to miss a punch and he wanted to rock you he could.

I believe with a few fights back in to get a number one contendership match he could really get back into the flow. But Dana is sort of right in making the decisions to put him in with the huge names, because he will sell.

 

[Final Form Snyper.]

How the fuck do you say win or go to Machida?

It is simple he has lost 2 fights in a row, 1 by a Round 1 KO. Losing a third is a contract termination on most cases.

He brings one of the best offenses in the UFC right now and is a master in Bjj!

I would call him a good point fighter with a few KO's because he is more likely to come in pick shots and get back. He is elusive and uses this attribute in close quarters. Black House fighters are more second string BJJ practitioners (aside from Big Nog) who use it more as a defense, but can apply submissions in the end.

He loses his title and then loses a great fight in a decision and your telling him to beat one of the Ufc's most notable names ever or basically your done?

Your forgetting the rematch with Shogun, where Shogun smashed him unconscious in under 5 minutes. Lost to Quinton Jackson in a competitive fight with little to no will to finish the fight.

Thats nuts Dana, I love to watch Lyoto fight, he's a little bit Meh at times, but that's his style.

He has some good technique and can be one of the hardest fighters to hit. I personally like him but at times he seems more trying not to lose than to win as he did with Rampage.

You can't make a mistake with this dude, or your done.

He is a professional, most are the exact same. Make a mistake with GSP and he will make you pay...... same with Anderson Silva.

Simple as that, if you were to miss a punch and he wanted to rock you he could.

Sometimes fighters can't get off their offense and Machida is no different he has been figured out now and game plans are available to nullify his offense, making it harder for him in the long run.

I believe with a few fights back in to get a number one contender ship match he could really get back into the flow. But Dana is sort of right in making the decisions to put him in with the huge names, because he will sell.

He doesn't sell, the opponents sell for him. Big Names like Shogun, Rampage, Matt Hughes and BJ Penn will be the fighters people pay to see. Lyoto is more the bonus that comes along. A skilled fighter who is too stuck in his ways to improve.

 

[Uncle Phatso]

It is simple he has lost 2 fights in a row, 1 by a Round 1 KO. Losing a third is a contract termination on most cases.

So you catch someone with a good punch and he loses a decision and Dana White is telling him your done if you lose? He's fighting against one of the most well known fighters in the world. Be it that he's getting old, but still Randy is in great shape.

I would call him a good point fighter with a few KO's because he is more likely to come in pick shots and get back. He is elusive and uses this attribute in close quarters. Black House fighters are more second string BJJ practitioners (aside from Big Nog) who use it more as a defense, but can apply submissions in the end.

Exactly that’s why he's a good fighter for the Ufc, its an ever evolving sport. He's mastered two techniques, and is a former (lol) sumo champion and uses wrestling in his game to.

Your forgetting the rematch with Shogun, where Shogun smashed him unconscious in under 5 minutes. Lost to Quinton Jackson in a competitive fight with little to no will to finish the fight.

How am I forgetting it? Who didn't see that? He got rocked, it can happen to anyone. I will agree with you on the Rampage fight, but he gave Quinton a run for his money in the first round.

He has some good technique and can be one of the hardest fighters to hit. I personally like him but at times he seems more trying not to lose than to win as he did with Rampage.

Why not? If you think you have the fight won why not go on the def. side of the game. Why not set back on your heels and wait for him to make a mistake. That’s what Machida does! This time it didn't work for him at all, that's his fault.

He is a professional, most are the exact same. Make a mistake with GSP and he will make you pay...... same with Anderson Silva.

Ok? Yeah thats agreeable.

Sometimes fighters can't get off their offense and Machida is no different he has been figured out now and game plans are available to nullify his offense, making it harder for him in the long run.

That’s why he needs to go back and fight a few more people, don't toss a dude away because he loses when he's still a legit threat. Get him in some good matches, make him work for that title shot. Don't just let him go, he's made money for you in the past why can't he do it again?

He doesn't sell, the opponents sell for him. Big Names like Shogun, Rampage, Matt Hughes and BJ Penn will be the fighters people pay to see. Lyoto is more the bonus that comes along. A skilled fighter who is too stuck in his ways to improve.

I can't say yes or no to he's a skilled fighter who won't change. Because I don't know what he's going to do against Randy, maybe he's going to change it up, use some of his Bjj when Randy takes him down. He's going to and you know it. Throw some punches, take him down, go for a submission or ride him. I'm quite sure Lyoto has his game plan all set out for Randy, his style is well documented.

 

[Tha Wolfpac]

I honestly think the Machida issue is a bluff on the part of Dana White. Although Machida right now looks vulnerable and very beatable he still is a man that is very dangerous and one of the top martial artists in the world today which is something you cannot take away from him. For god sake cut Brandon Vera rather than Lyoto. Do not forget Lyoto is still young so there is always room for him to improve and grow.

Tito Ortiz i really lost all respect for him for seemingly ducking the Liddell vs Ortiz III fight after he was a coach on ultimate fighter. He looked a shell of his former self whilst going up against Matt Hamill. Im not sure who mentioned this im sorry but was very right in saying Tito Ortiz is a wrestler first and foremost, with good ground and pound and nowadays being a one dimensional fighter in the UFC won't get you too far.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

Machida also doesn't have the marketing value of Tito. Blame the language barrier in part for that. It's part of the reason Anderson Silva isn't the draw Lesnar or GSP is. He's likable because he's talented and clean cut, but he's not interesting if he isn't winning. Tito, even in a loss, is always interesting.

I also think Tito has greater value to the UFC post-career. He was a terrific coach on Season 3 of TUF, and only failed in his 2nd stint because of his attitude. Punishment Athletics has become a strong brand in MMA thanks to Tito's work ethic. If he and Dana could get along (tough with two guys with such strong personalities), they could use it to further enhance UFC presence and brand, which in the end is the most important thing.

 

[INDYjon22]

So you catch someone with a good punch and he loses a decision and Dana White is telling him your done if you lose? He's fighting against one of the most well known fighters in the world. Be it that he's getting old, but still Randy is in great shape.



Exactly that’s why he's a good fighter for the Ufc, its an ever evolving sport. He's mastered two techniques, and is a former (lol) sumo champion and uses wrestling in his game to.



How am I forgetting it? Who didn't see that? He got rocked, it can happen to anyone. I will agree with you on the Rampage fight, but he gave Quinton a run for his money in the first round.



Why not? If you think you have the fight won why not go on the def. side of the game. Why not set back on your heels and wait for him to make a mistake. That’s what Machida does! This time it didn't work for him at all, that's his fault.



Ok? Yeah thats agreeable.



That’s why he needs to go back and fight a few more people, don't toss a dude away because he loses when he's still a legit threat. Get him in some good matches, make him work for that title shot. Don't just let him go, he's made money for you in the past why can't he do it again?



I can't say yes or no to he's a skilled fighter who won't change. Because I don't know what he's going to do against Randy, maybe he's going to change it up, use some of his Bjj when Randy takes him down. He's going to and you know it. Throw some punches, take him down, go for a submission or ride him. I'm quite sure Lyoto has his game plan all set out for Randy, his style is well documented.

Trust me, people have been cut over much less and other guys have been given infinite chances to stay without winning. Tell me how it makes sense that Keith Jardine loses 6 of 8 fights and keeps his job, but Gerald Harris loses one decision and he gets cut. Jardine may be an exciting fighter but he deserved to get cut much earlier then he was, while guys like Harris and Eliot Marshall should all still be in the company. I like Jardine as well but that's the truth. It doesn't make sense, but that is the way the business goes. Most of the time guys with 2 loses in a row get shown the door, Machida should feel lucky that Dana's bias against him hasn't gotten him cut yet and the fact of the matter is Machidas unique and fairly interesting style of fighting, mixed with him being a former champion has helped him keep his job. A third loss is grounds for termination and I don't see a problem with that.

 

[jmt225]

First of all, Machida isn't going to lose, so it's a moot point. If by some miracle he does lose though, I don't think the UFC will cut him just yet. I think they'd give him one more fight against a lesser opponent to main event a Fight Night or something like that. They know at the end of the day, companies like Strikeforce would gain a lot by getting a talent like Machida.

But, like I said, Machida isn't going to lose, so it's nothing to worry about. I think Dana is certain Machida is going to win as well.

And as far as Tito... he stands a good chance against Lil' Nog, but if he loses, then yeah... his fighting career in the UFC should be over. However, I agree with IC that there's still a lot Tito could do for the promotion behind the scenes. I would hope Dana and the UFC would treat Tito with the same respect as they've treated Chuck Liddell since his loss to Rich Franklin. Tito more than deserves it.

 

[Via Armbar]

Machida won't be cut. If he loses to Couture he'll get a a rebound fight, I guarantee it. He is a character and the UFC and it's fans love that shit. He's marketable (not to be confused with being a draw) and can obvious give any fighter at 205 a run for their money. The problem Machida has is people are going to figure him out eventually. A tight, constrictor offensive kick boxer could really give him problems. Rampage closed in on him and had some success and Shogun knocked him out cold. They've realized to pre-counter the counter striker and he isn't so elusive anymore. If he can switch it up a bit and keep fighters on the defensive outside more he can gain back some of that puzzling style.

As far as him getting cut and going to SF goes, it won't happen. If he gets cut I see him retiring honestly. I'm sure Coker and Pals would love to have him but he's been quoted many times saying he doesn't plan on staying in the game much longer and wants to teach at his dojo. It would really fun to see him matched up with guys like Mousasi, Henderson and Feijao. I just don't see it happening.

Look for him to be booked at the Rio event event either way. I see him against the winner of Bader/Bones for a title shot if he beats Couture and a fight against the loser if he loses against Randy.

 

[DeathClutch]

Tito needing to win is obvious. The guy hasn't won since beating Shamrock in 2006, even though he pretty much beat Rashad Evans in a fight that went to a draw. I also thought he took the Forrest Griffin fight as well. This is a very winnable fight for him against Lil Nog, who is susceptible to the takedown, and if Tito doesn't win, then something will have to give.

Machida on the other hand, the fact that he's in danger of getting cut is very interesting, but perhaps in Dana's mind, he's lost three in a row. He definitely should have lost the first Shogun fight, and that KO Shogun gave him was brutal. Then he dropped a close decision to Rampage, and Dana was upset that Rampage was being modest about winning, because he thought that Rampage was the clear winner.

I also would have thought that if Machida did lose to Couture, that he'd have one last shot against a "gimme" opponent. Even Jardine had four losses in a row before getting cut. Perhaps it was these comments by Machida after UFC 123 that set Dana off (in response to Dana thinking Rampage clearly won)...



Regardless of his comments, Machida is still one of the best fighters in the world. He'd be a huge boost for Strikeforce. There is no shame in losing to Shogun, Rampage, and possibly Couture. Do you think Dana would actually cut him?

Pardon my bluntness but Lil Nog is an winnable fight for Tito?
I've been a fan of MMA since 2002 and I can assure you this fight isn't winnable for Tito, Lil Nog will be beat him taking him to a decsion.

Machida if Couture beats Machida then no Joe Silva won't cut him, it's not like he's lost too 3 bums, but it would mean he's had 4 fights in a row he hasn't had a decent showing.
If Machida wins he'll fight the winner of Griffin/Franklin, if he looses he'll probably face the loser of Griffin/Franklin.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

Pardon my bluntness but Lil Nog is an winnable fight for Tito?
I've been a fan of MMA since 2002 and I can assure you this fight isn't winnable for Tito, Lil Nog will be beat him taking him to a decsion.

Pardon my bluntness but it looks like you don't watch fights.

Jason Brilz should have beaten Lil' Nog, he was frustrated by his takedowns and wrestling. For the duration of the fight, Brilz was controlling Lil' Nog, and he should have taken the decision. Unfortunately, the judges were fucking ******ed.

Ryan Bader just decisioned Lil' Nog, using takedowns and his superior wrestling ability, as well as keeping things close standing.

Lil' Nog is susceptible to being taken down and worked over on the ground. Guess what Tito Ortiz's main strengths are?

 

[cantknockrob]

Tito's striking, if not his standup power, looked much improved against Matt Hamil. Im confident he can get top control and control Lil Nog. While Nog has power in his hands, I don't see him finishing Ortiz.

As far as Machida goes, Strikeforce would sign him in a minuite just based on name value so I doubt that they would release him. Many ppl (im not one of them) think he won the Rampage fight, and other than Shogun no one has really had any successful offensive against him.

 

[ITurnGirlsGay]

Dana White is a fickle guy. Shogun loses a controversial decision to Machida and gets his dick sucked and an immediate rematch. Machida loses a controversial decision to Rampage and is told that he will receive his walking papers if he loses. (He was told by Dana he would be cut, Machida even issued a statement agreeing with the cut if he loses).

Some people are using rather interesting arguments to justify Machida being cut if he loses this fight. I understand the "three in a row" argument that some of you are making, but you're skipping over some GLARING differences between Machida and other people who have been cut for "three in a row" or less.

1. Many of them were not former champions. Especially not recent champions.

2. None of them lost those three fights to the current champion, former champion, and a HOF and 4 time champion in two different weight classes in back to back to back fights. Rampage just fought for the number 1 contender slot and will, likely, be the number one contender after his fight with Hamill. Couture? He's fucking Randy!

3. None of those fighters had the pull with the HUGE names in the UFC that Machida has. He, Anderson, and the Nog's are basically THE guys at Black House. Cutting Machida would very much upset Anderson and the Nogs and probably isn't something Dana wants to risk when he's trying to book the biggest fight in MMA history with Silva's name on it.


Also, GuyCompton, I'm certainly glad you called out that Brilz thing, because I was about to jump all over that like a pack of dogs on a three legged cat. If there ever was a fight made for Tito that was winnable, this would have been it. Unfortunately, Tito's out.