Could The Rock Win The WWE Championship In 2012 (NOT A WRESTLEMANIA 28 THREAD!)

Why does everyone keep talking about what would be good for the business, as far as The Rock is concerned? Do you work in the business? Do you know anything about the business besides what you read on dirt sheet websites or see on TV? No? Then you, frankly, know shit about the business.

Instead of talking about "the Rock putting talent over", why don't you talk about what you would like to see as a fan- because that's all you or I are.

Therefore, as a fan of the WWE, I would much rather see The Rock as WWE Champion than anyone else on the current roster. Why? Because he entertains me. The current crop of "superstars" has a difficult time doing that. Make Rock champ and I'll tune in, don't and I'll keep checking the dirt sheets for the results and be content with that.
 
Impossible for two reasons.

1. Backlash doesn't exist.
2. If you SERIOUSLY think that Vince would allow a former poster boy to go over his current poster boy, I welcome you to every former poster boy vs. current poster boy storyline. Hell, The Rock couldn't even go over a brand new Randy Orton 7 years ago. What in the hell makes you think he'll go over Cena?

1. Fine, not Backlash then, whatever PPV comes after Mania now... it's one of the few I NEVER order.

2. Apparently you didn't see Hogan vs Orton at Summerslam a few years ago...

He'll go over Cena because he's in his hometown, and it gives reason to keep the feud going and milking another PPV with the Cena vs Rock headline.

Actually, numbers prove that Stone Cold and John Cena have BOTH drawn more than The Rock, and if you don't think Austin would bite at the chance for another WWE return then you're mistaken.

Stone Cold definitely has drawn more than Rock, but how can you say that Cena has? When Rock was at the top RAW's ratings were in the 7's and 8's... Cena's are in the 2's and 3's.

And no, he's not in his prime. His prime was about 8 years ago before he lost to the Hurricane.

He can still go, can he not? He hasn't slowed down physically, or on the mic. You're argument to him being passed his prime is pinned on that he lost a match to a curtain jerker...


Maybe because, "I've done wrestling and want to accomplish all I can in actin" and "Don't associate me with being The Rock" have been said from the Camel's mouth.

He's never said any of those things, that's what you've assumed and inferred from some interviews and you're interpretations of his actions.

Jericho has only dissed WWE when he's planning on returning, and Taker is STILL signed and has done so much more in the past two years to put over new talent than The Rock has done in his entire career that I will always have respect for him. Nor do I hear Undertaker telling fans not to call him the Undertaker.

Rock has never "dissed" The WWE, and how can you bring up Rock jobbing to The Hurricane, and losing to a green Orton, then say he never put anyone over? What has Taker done to put anyone over? Getting the World Title taken off of Punk because he didn't like the way he dressed?

He does... an apology for treating all his fans like idiots. HE told his fans not to address him as The Rock and that he wouldn't return to the WWE until Cena spoke the truth and it a little bit of jealous fire under him.

Face, if Cena hadn't said anything about The Rock bailing on his fans, then The Rock would still be going by Dwayne Johnson.

So ultimately, you're biggest gripe with him is he stopped going by "The Rock?"

My wife calls me "Pookie" is it an insult to her that I don't put that on job applications? The Rock isn't his real name, and he doesn't want to be typecast nor rest on his previous successes.

Right because beating Taker isn't a big enough rub, who's been wrestling for ages.

Beating Triple H, the man currently running the show, isn't a big enough rub.

Beating a 6x World Champion in Booker T isn't a big enough rub.

All of these names are still worth the rub and they've stayed around long enough to put over these young guys... and they never turned their backs on the fans that made him the blockbuster name that he is... and if you dare say that it was all him, I will look you in the eye and ask you... where did the inspiration for "The Rock" come from?

Honestly... their not as big of a rub as The Rock.

First of all Triple H never reached the level Rock did, while he's a big name, it's like comparing the rub you'd get from Lex Luger to the one you'd get from Hulk Hogan.

The only rub you could get from The Undertaker that would be anywhere near The Rock is beating Taker at WrestleMania... which will never happen.

And Booker T is kind of washed up... beating Booker at this point is the same level as beating Jerry Lawler.

IMO, people who buy into this "I'm here to stay" bull crap are as brain dead as Dwayne. WWE this past year alone has been well worth the 40-50 bucks per pay per view and I enjoyed everyone of them. And no, not everyone paid for Survivor Series because The Rock was on it...

I don't believe he's actually going to stay around, nor does he have to. That's great you feel like you've gotten your moneys worth. The point of bringing in The Rock is not to satisfy you, it's to bring in people who otherwise wouldn't look twice at a WWE event.
 
Didn't know stating facts was considered bitter, but if that's the case then sure... call me bitter.
You're bitter.


Impossible for two reasons.

1. Backlash doesn't exist.
2. If you SERIOUSLY think that Vince would allow a former poster boy to go over his current poster boy, I welcome you to every former poster boy vs. current poster boy storyline. Hell, The Rock couldn't even go over a brand new Randy Orton 7 years ago. What in the hell makes you think he'll go over Cena?
I'm not psychic so i'm not gonna try and predict anything, but I will tell you this, as big of a poster boy as Cena is for Vince, I'm willing to bet money that Vince is a bigger Rock fan... Cena is making him money hand over foot. He has been the biggest merch seller for years and one of the biggest draws in wrestling for the past 7 years, but what does Rock have that Cena doesn't have?
Hollywood.
And what does Vince want that Cena can't give him?
Hollywood.
I'm thinking, though i'm not predicting anything, but yeah, i'm thinking Rock over Cena at Wrestlemania.

Actually, numbers prove that Stone Cold and John Cena have BOTH drawn more than The Rock, and if you don't think Austin would bite at the chance for another WWE return then you're mistaken.
Austin, yes. Cena? I'll have to ask you to find the numbers to prove that one.

And no, he's not in his prime. His prime was about 8 years ago before he lost to the Hurricane.
Rock is pushing 40 and is definitely not in his prime. But if SS was any indication, he can still go. For an older guy he's healthier than Undertaker, and is moving better than Triple H and Austin and looks better than a good amount of the current roster. He may not be in his prime, but i'm sure he's gonna put on one heck of a match.



Maybe because, "I've done wrestling and want to accomplish all I can in actin" and "Don't associate me with being The Rock" have been said from the Camel's mouth.
What is this thing that people have against him not wanting to be typecast? Try walking up to Daniel Radcliff and call him Harry Potter. How pissed would you be if you played a particular character for 10 years and then tried to do something different and NOBODY would allow you to change? I do not fault Dwayne for wanting to make it as Dwayne and not the Rock, and if you do, then you're not much of a realistic human being. Would I say him wanting to be addressed as Dwayne over being addressed as the Rock is a diss to the fans? No. But i'm not so personally invested in a persons on screen persona.
Clearly people who took offense to that blur the line between fiction and reality.

Jericho has only dissed WWE when he's planning on returning, and Taker is STILL signed and has done so much more in the past two years to put over new talent than The Rock has done in his entire career that I will always have respect for him. Nor do I hear Undertaker telling fans not to call him the Undertaker.
Yeah? Taker has done more in the last 2 years to put over new talent?
Who? (I'll need names and dates for this one.)


He does... an apology for treating all his fans like idiots. HE told his fans not to address him as The Rock and that he wouldn't return to the WWE until Cena spoke the truth and it a little bit of jealous fire under him.
:lol:
are you serious? for what??? Dude you are trippin.

Face, if Cena hadn't said anything about The Rock bailing on his fans, then The Rock would still be going by Dwayne Johnson.
and he would still have done all he needed to do in wrestling, winning every major championship and been a part of one of the greatest era's in wrestling history. He has done all that their is to do in wrestling. What more did he have to prove? What more DOES he have to prove? I congratulate him for leaving at the top of his game, and doing well in a safer, more lucrative industry.

Seriously....all of you "via-satellite" quoting Cena lovers need to get a grip.


All of these names are still worth the rub and they've stayed around long enough to put over these young guys... and they never turned their backs on the fans that made him the blockbuster name that he is...
:disappointed:....wow....you really BELIEVE he turned his back on the fans....and you know why you believe that? Because Cena said it.
Cena told you that because he decided to pursue a career in acting and that he said he didn't want his acting career to be associated with "the Rock" that he was saying "screw you" to the WWE and the fans that backed him for years. You TRULY have taken this to heart and believe with an unwavering belief that this is fact.:banghead:

Do your thing bruh, but I would ask that you start to realize that there is life after and outside of wrestling and you don't have to be forced to retire in order to start doing something different.:shrug:
 
That would be absolutely amazing if The Rock got the title one last time. I remember I used to be so excited when he would have the title. It was like the best thing to watch him come down the stage and into the ring with the title on his shoulder (never on his waist) and get on the turnbuckle and wave that belt. Truly a sight to see. He would have like so much more swag if that's even possible for him.

Honestly I don't even care if I sound like the biggest Rocky groupie, but really his reigns were awesome and I think it would be great for business and it would definitely motivate guys like Punk, Orton, and Miz to do better. Some of you need to get over yourself and the fact that he's been gone blah blah, why are you even still on that? This man and the WWE is going to do w/e they feel like doing regardless how much you would hate it. There's a world outside this forum that feels absolutely different. Get over it.
 
Why does everyone keep talking about what would be good for the business, as far as The Rock is concerned? Do you work in the business? Do you know anything about the business besides what you read on dirt sheet websites or see on TV? No? Then you, frankly, know shit about the business.

Instead of talking about "the Rock putting talent over", why don't you talk about what you would like to see as a fan- because that's all you or I are.

Therefore, as a fan of the WWE, I would much rather see The Rock as WWE Champion than anyone else on the current roster. Why? Because he entertains me. The current crop of "superstars" has a difficult time doing that. Make Rock champ and I'll tune in, don't and I'll keep checking the dirt sheets for the results and be content with that.


You're missing the point of this thread. It asks "Could The Rock win the WWE Championship" not "Would you like to see The Rock become the WWE Champion." I as well would love to see it, but in reality he won't and he doesn't need to. He's soo over with the WWE and has accomplished almost everything. As long as he's appearing on Raw going into and even after Wrestlemania, I will be tuned in to see it every week. The point is HE'S BACK and you should be happy. Like I've said before don't like the current product? No one's blaming you for not watching it. We have our own opinions. "pipebomb"
 
I'd like to see him as a WWE Champion one last time. I don't care what you Rock-Haters Punk pole jockers say, dude put in work and having him as a champ via satellite would be more interesting then another Del Rio, or Cena run lol.

But seriously, why the talk no because he doesn't put others over if he wins? Having the Rock as the champion and having a up and comer beat him or the belt can forever and easily elevate any heel. Look at Jericho he made a living bragging about it. Having a Miz or Del Rio defeat the Rock could definitely help their characters.
 
[cL];3681572 said:
You're bitter.

Can't be bitter of a person I wasn't really a fan of, can I?


I'm not psychic so i'm not gonna try and predict anything, but I will tell you this, as big of a poster boy as Cena is for Vince, I'm willing to bet money that Vince is a bigger Rock fan... Cena is making him money hand over foot. He has been the biggest merch seller for years and one of the biggest draws in wrestling for the past 7 years, but what does Rock have that Cena doesn't have?
Hollywood.
And what does Vince want that Cena can't give him?
Hollywood.
I'm thinking, though i'm not predicting anything, but yeah, i'm thinking Rock over Cena at Wrestlemania.

Cena can't bring Hollywood to Vince? How about the fact that Cena's always on Talk Shows, always making new movies, always guest starring on TV shows? He's still wrestling and still makes movies... how is he NOT bringing in Hollywood?

Hollywood's been paying attention to WWE for over 20 years, don't give The Rock all the credit when Hogan was starring in Rocky movies long before that.


Austin, yes. Cena? I'll have to ask you to find the numbers to prove that one.

How does JR's BBQ blog proving it sound?


Rock is pushing 40 and is definitely not in his prime. But if SS was any indication, he can still go. For an older guy he's healthier than Undertaker, and is moving better than Triple H and Austin and looks better than a good amount of the current roster. He may not be in his prime, but i'm sure he's gonna put on one heck of a match.
Undertaker can still move, or did you not watch his past few Mania matches?




What is this thing that people have against him not wanting to be typecast? Try walking up to Daniel Radcliff and call him Harry Potter. How pissed would you be if you played a particular character for 10 years and then tried to do something different and NOBODY would allow you to change? I do not fault Dwayne for wanting to make it as Dwayne and not the Rock, and if you do, then you're not much of a realistic human being. Would I say him wanting to be addressed as Dwayne over being addressed as the Rock is a diss to the fans? No. But i'm not so personally invested in a persons on screen persona.
Clearly people who took offense to that blur the line between fiction and reality.

Why take offense to it? If someone went up to Adam Sandler and called him "Big Daddy" do you really think he'd be mad about it? Do you think Jason David Frank would be mad about people calling him Tommy from Power Rangers, even though he's an undefeated MMA Fighter?

It's called being recognized for what you did. Why would you take offense to someone who admires your work? It's selfish.


Yeah? Taker has done more in the last 2 years to put over new talent?
Who? (I'll need names and dates for this one.)

In the past two years, he put over...

Chris Jericho - Elimination Chamber 2010. Sure, he's been main eventer before, but a win over Taker is never anything less than a put over.
HBK - WrestleMania 26 (Yes, HBK lost but you don't need to win to be put over. HBK looked like a serious threat, thus he was put over.) If you want, you can take him out since he's BEEN over.
Rey Mysterio - Smackdown May 28, 2010. He won, yes, but what happened after that put Rey Mysterio in the world title picture which gave him a World title reign.
Kane - Summer of 2010 (From Night of Champions, all the way until SummerSlam, Kane defeated Taker in back to back confrontations)
Nexus (Otunga, Slater, Gabriel, Harris, and McGuillicutty) - Say what you want, but their attack on the Undertaker during that Buried Alive match put a further interest into the group. It might have failed as a group later, but that night helped them.
Triple H - WrestleMania 27, again he lost but he was still put over by looking like a viable threat. If you want, you can take him out since he's BEEN over.

By my count, that's 9 people in two years, and if you take out DX, that's still 7. The Rock put over maybe that many his entire career. Undertaker has never been stingy to the point that he doesn't put someone over.

Even his rivalry with Punk, in the beginning of that feud Punk was high on the title reign. He even went over Taker to retain his title at one point. Sure, he lost the World title at a later date, but he still made Punk look like a main eventer.

:lol:
are you serious? for what??? Dude you are trippin.

Well, do you think that if Cena hadn't called out Rock's bluff that Rock would be in WWE?

I sure as hell don't.


and he would still have done all he needed to do in wrestling, winning every major championship and been a part of one of the greatest era's in wrestling history. He has done all that their is to do in wrestling. What more did he have to prove? What more DOES he have to prove? I congratulate him for leaving at the top of his game, and doing well in a safer, more lucrative industry.

Put over some young talent. Ric Flair has always been able to do that, even when he WAS world champion. The best of the best have all stuck around to put over some young talent and show them the ropes. HBK, HHH, Kevin Nash, JBL, Stone Cold, Bret Hart, Hulk Hogan, Kurt Angle, Booker T, Mick Foley... because they love this business and want to see the next stars become like them. Why couldn't The Rock be the same? Why did he have to snub the up and comers from some much needed help?

Even you would have to admit that having someone like The Rock give you advice on how to improve would be a huge jump for someone's career.


Seriously....all of you "via-satellite" quoting Cena lovers need to get a grip.

Really? Cause the way it looks, all of you "here to stay" quoting Dwayne lovers need to check into reality.



:disappointed:....wow....you really BELIEVE he turned his back on the fans....and you know why you believe that? Because Cena said it.
Cena told you that because he decided to pursue a career in acting and that he said he didn't want his acting career to be associated with "the Rock" that he was saying "screw you" to the WWE and the fans that backed him for years. You TRULY have taken this to heart and believe with an unwavering belief that this is fact.:banghead:

Do your thing bruh, but I would ask that you start to realize that there is life after and outside of wrestling and you don't have to be forced to retire in order to start doing something different.:shrug:


Because it is a fact. Why not give back to the company that made you who you are? Why not show up at least once for the fans who put Rock in those movies to begin with? Face it, without the WWE fans, The Rock would be jack shit... and yet he doesn't want them to recognize him at all? How does that NOT say "screw you" to the fans.




2. Apparently you didn't see Hogan vs Orton at Summerslam a few years ago...

He'll go over Cena because he's in his hometown, and it gives reason to keep the feud going and milking another PPV with the Cena vs Rock headline.

Summer Slam isn't WrestleMania. Had that match taken place at Mania, Orton would've been the winner, hands down. And anyone who believes otherwise is crazy.

Hometown wins in WWE mean nothing to Vince. You'd think Montreal would be quite the example of that, but then again people have short term memory these days. So I'll use a more recent event... Orton lost the Rumble in his hometown last night... You logic of "hometown hero" is flaud.



Stone Cold definitely has drawn more than Rock, but how can you say that Cena has? When Rock was at the top RAW's ratings were in the 7's and 8's... Cena's are in the 2's and 3's.

Ratings aren't the only thing that count as far as draws. Keep in mind that Rock never drew on his own like Cena's been forced to do. Rock had the help of Stone Cold, Triple H, HBK, and the added benefit that he became popular right around the time Stone Cold started giving everyone a stunner for touching a beer can before he did.

Cena is out there pushing t-shirts on his own and making Vince money doing so. He even put out an anti-Cena shirt just so he can make money off the smarks in the crowd, and it's working.



He can still go, can he not? He hasn't slowed down physically, or on the mic. You're argument to him being passed his prime is pinned on that he lost a match to a curtain jerker...

Are you kidding me? He was blown up in mere minutes at Survivor Series. But I guess since he was able to go through a few spots, that's "not slowed down" to you isn't it?



He's never said any of those things, that's what you've assumed and inferred from some interviews and you're interpretations of his actions.



Rock has never "dissed" The WWE, and how can you bring up Rock jobbing to The Hurricane, and losing to a green Orton, then say he never put anyone over? What has Taker done to put anyone over? Getting the World Title taken off of Punk because he didn't like the way he dressed?

Taker part has been addressed...

As has the Hurricane situation.


So ultimately, you're biggest gripe with him is he stopped going by "The Rock?"

My wife calls me "Pookie" is it an insult to her that I don't put that on job applications? The Rock isn't his real name, and he doesn't want to be typecast nor rest on his previous successes.

Addressed.



Honestly... their not as big of a rub as The Rock.

Really?

First of all Triple H never reached the level Rock did, while he's a big name, it's like comparing the rub you'd get from Lex Luger to the one you'd get from Hulk Hogan.

Right because his return in 2002 in Madison Square Garden didn't spark an electric pop from the crowd? Because DX was never popular. Because Evolution wasn't a success.

Triple H is as big of a star as any of the guys in WWE history. Going over him

The only rub you could get from The Undertaker that would be anywhere near The Rock is beating Taker at WrestleMania... which will never happen.

Beating the Undertaker, period, is a giant rub. Look at the stars who've beaten Taker and come out on top. Are you going to tell me that Lesnar beating Taker in a Hell in a Cell match DIDN'T make him a bigger threat? Are you going to tell me that Khali's debut didn't make him look badass when he mopped the floor with Taker? Are you going to honestly tell me that Edge didn't benefit from beating Taker in countless world title matches? If you honestly believe that, then I have no further reason not to debate with you.

And Booker T is kind of washed up... beating Booker at this point is the same level as beating Jerry Lawler.

Right because Miz didn't benefit from his feud with Lawler at all, did he? He didn't get more hated as a heel, did he? The Atlanta crowd wasn't pissed when Cole was decided as the winner at Mania, were they? Cody Rhodes didn't just sky rocket in the eyes of WWE by feuding with Booker, did he? I rest my case here.


I don't believe he's actually going to stay around, nor does he have to. That's great you feel like you've gotten your moneys worth. The point of bringing in The Rock is not to satisfy you, it's to bring in people who otherwise wouldn't look twice at a WWE event.

CM Punk has proven that any star in the WWE can bring in other people. Hell, Stone Cold even proved that when he ushered in the Attitude Era that created The Rock. Samoa Joe proved that in TNA when he went off on Scott Hall years ago.

Here, I'll take your ratings logic and use it here.

Raw was still in the 3.5s when The Rock came back. CM Punk went off one time, and the ratings for the next week spiked instantly, and stayed that way for most of the summer in 2011. You tell me, who helped WWE the most in that situation.
 
i dont think they should CENA SHOULD WIN end the rocks envolvement with wwe BUT knowing vince and co i see the rock going on a bit further than he should but then again he does have a couple movies coming up
 
I love Rock, I do, and he doesn't have to stay around to please the 10% of the crowd that are mostly the "deep voices" like myself that boo Cena. I hate Cena's character to death but it doesn't change the fact that he's the top guy and draws.

But when you compare the two, honestly, Cena is not on his level of lifelong notoriety. Rock will have to give him the rub in the end and put him over because it's the right thing for business. It's the final step to get Cena out of Rock's shadow for that large portion of the crowd that still see it that way. If they really know how to portray it properly, they'll make it the official passing of the torch that never happened in 2003.

Not to harp on the Attitude Era like a lot of old-school fans, but I think temporarily bringing back some old talent on appearance-based payment to reintroduce the lightest possible elements of that time (To still jibe with the PG thing) would lend in capturing the aura of that time that still surrounds The Rock. Something short-term that can be used to further enhance the WM28 build-up. It just adds that much more meaning to Cena beating him. Cop out a little but for us and we'll quiet down for a bit.
 
Ratings aren't the only thing that count as far as draws. Keep in mind that Rock never drew on his own like Cena's been forced to do. Rock had the help of Stone Cold, Triple H, HBK, and the added benefit that he became popular right around the time Stone Cold started giving everyone a stunner for touching a beer can before he did.


hmm...I don't remember HBK being around during rock's reign as the top guy(2000)...Hell, I don't remember SCSA being around at that time(Recovering from neck injury)...Foley retired earlier that year...HHH was the only person that was there and he really wasn't much of a draw up untill mid-to-late 2000. So... If you think that rock wasn't the main reason for those 7's and 8's then you must be either a blinded hater or a jackass. I really can't discribe how HUGE the rock was in 2000, not just in wrestling commuity but in the mainstream.



"he became popular right around the time Stone Cold started giving everyone a stunner for touching a beer can before he did."

LMAO!! What does this have to do with rock's drawing power?! And do you really think austin would've been as big without his fued with vince??
 
Summer Slam isn't WrestleMania. Had that match taken place at Mania, Orton would've been the winner, hands down. And anyone who believes otherwise is crazy.

Hometown wins in WWE mean nothing to Vince. You'd think Montreal would be quite the example of that, but then again people have short term memory these days. So I'll use a more recent event... Orton lost the Rumble in his hometown last night... You logic of "hometown hero" is flaud.

There is no difference, a booking decision wouldn't change based on whether it was April or August. What difference does it make? WWE considers Summerslam to be second only to WrestleMania. Hogan would've won because that was the agreement they came to.

In some cases, yes, the hometown hero gets beaten... Orton lost in St. Louis, but Rock in his return match at WrestleMania is more akin to Punk in Chicago then it is Orton in St Louis.


Ratings aren't the only thing that count as far as draws. Keep in mind that Rock never drew on his own like Cena's been forced to do. Rock had the help of Stone Cold, Triple H, HBK, and the added benefit that he became popular right around the time Stone Cold started giving everyone a stunner for touching a beer can before he did.

Cena is out there pushing t-shirts on his own and making Vince money doing so. He even put out an anti-Cena shirt just so he can make money off the smarks in the crowd, and it's working.

The word "Draw" literally means to bring in viewers, merchandise sales and Drawing are completely different things. John Cena cannot draw like The Rock.

Has Cena sold more shirts? We have no proof, but I'm sure he has, as internet shopping was nowhere near as prevalent as it is now. Back in the late 90's you actually had to go to a show or order from a catalogue to get licensed merchandise.

and then there's the fact that Cena has about three to five new shirts every year, being sold to the same kids over and over again... it's not an apples to apples comparison

The Rock DID NOT have the help of Stone Cold or HBK... Michaels was out LONG before The Rock became champ, and Stone Cold went home. Triple H helps, but he was never the face of the company... at least not back then.


Taker part has been addressed...

Let's take a look at that...

In the past two years, he put over...

Chris Jericho - Elimination Chamber 2010. Sure, he's been main eventer before, but a win over Taker is never anything less than a put over.
HBK - WrestleMania 26 (Yes, HBK lost but you don't need to win to be put over. HBK looked like a serious threat, thus he was put over.) If you want, you can take him out since he's BEEN over.
Rey Mysterio - Smackdown May 28, 2010. He won, yes, but what happened after that put Rey Mysterio in the world title picture which gave him a World title reign.
Kane - Summer of 2010 (From Night of Champions, all the way until SummerSlam, Kane defeated Taker in back to back confrontations)
Nexus (Otunga, Slater, Gabriel, Harris, and McGuillicutty) - Say what you want, but their attack on the Undertaker during that Buried Alive match put a further interest into the group. It might have failed as a group later, but that night helped them.
Triple H - WrestleMania 27, again he lost but he was still put over by looking like a viable threat. If you want, you can take him out since he's BEEN over.

By my count, that's 9 people in two years, and if you take out DX, that's still 7. The Rock put over maybe that many his entire career. Undertaker has never been stingy to the point that he doesn't put someone over.

Even his rivalry with Punk, in the beginning of that feud Punk was high on the title reign. He even went over Taker to retain his title at one point. Sure, he lost the World title at a later date, but he still made Punk look like a main eventer.

I believe we were specifically talking about new talent, and aside from Nexus (who he never had a match with and your claim he put them over is a bit of a stretch) everyone of those examples is an already established veteran world champion all having at least ten years WWE/WCW experience a piece.

And even then, only two of those listed even beat Taker... neither of them cleanly. And how the Hell did Taker make Punk look like a main eventer? By squashing him in under ten minutes in the opening match of Hell in a Cell? Don't be ridiculous...

As has the Hurricane situation.

You never addressed that.

Addressed.

You may have "addressed" him not going by The Rock, but you sure as hell didn't make any points whatsoever.


Really.

Right because his return in 2002 in Madison Square Garden didn't spark an electric pop from the crowd? Because DX was never popular. Because Evolution wasn't a success.

Triple H is as big of a star as any of the guys in WWE history.

I'm not denying Triple H is a star, he's just not at Rock's level. I said Rock/Triple H is similiar to Hogan/Luger... Luger was over, got great ovations, was a star in every sense of the word... just never reached Hogan's level. Same with Trips. i agree he's a huge star and can give a great rub, just not as big of one as The Rock.

Beating the Undertaker, period, is a giant rub. Look at the stars who've beaten Taker and come out on top. Are you going to tell me that Lesnar beating Taker in a Hell in a Cell match DIDN'T make him a bigger threat? Are you going to tell me that Khali's debut didn't make him look badass when he mopped the floor with Taker? Are you going to honestly tell me that Edge didn't benefit from beating Taker in countless world title matches? If you honestly believe that, then I have no further reason not to debate with you
.

Let's face it, there's only two ways to get a rub from The Undertaker... one is to be an established star to begin with, and the other is that he gets to squash you in return.

Edge & Lesnar did get nice rubs from Taker, but he never would've done it if Cena and Rock didn't put them over first.

And even then, I'm not saying beating Taker won't put you over, I'm just saying that beating Rock means more.

Right because Miz didn't benefit from his feud with Lawler at all, did he? He didn't get more hated as a heel, did he? The Atlanta crowd wasn't pissed when Cole was decided as the winner at Mania, were they? Cody Rhodes didn't just sky rocket in the eyes of WWE by feuding with Booker, did he? I rest my case here.

Once again, not saying there's no rub, just not as much of one.

CM Punk has proven that any star in the WWE can bring in other people. Hell, Stone Cold even proved that when he ushered in the Attitude Era that created The Rock. Samoa Joe proved that in TNA when he went off on Scott Hall years ago.

No, CM Punk proved that HE can bring in new viewers, not "any star." but aside from Punk, what guy has brought in that kind of viewership spike? Cena hasn't. Orton hasn't. Ryder hasn't. Punk is one of a kind.

Why are you talking about Samoa Joe in the same breath as Austin, Rock, and Punk? Samoa Joe is a jobber in TNA.

Here, I'll take your ratings logic and use it here.

Raw was still in the 3.5s when The Rock came back. CM Punk went off one time, and the ratings for the next week spiked instantly, and stayed that way for most of the summer in 2011. You tell me, who helped WWE the most in that situation.

What do you mean "Still in the 3.5's" RAW was in the upper 2's... Rock bumped it to 3.5.

I'm with you on Punk, as I said, he's a one of a kind talent, and if The WWE had more than one CM Punk, they wouldn't have to rely on Austin, Rock, Triple, and Taker to boost ratings.
 
Oh sweet merciful Jesus (and I'm not religious either) I hope not. The Rock doesn't need the title and if here WERE to win it he would make the rest of the roster EVEN MORE irrelevant than he makes them look already. The reality is that as long as the Rock boosts the ratings by a couple of points VKM will be less likely to take a chance on a new "face of the company".

The Rock winning the WWE title would be a short term win but a long term disaster. That's really all there is to it
 
The Rock is my favorite wrestler of alltime but I don't think it would be fair to the other wrestlers who wrestle over 200 times a year, for The Rock to get a title shot at Wrestlemania.The Rock is 7x WWE and 2X WCW champion, he does not need to win a 10th title to prove anything to anyone.
 
The rock doesn't need a wwe championship to further establish himself, though it would give him the accomplishment of reaching double digits in terms of title wins. However, the only thing he hasn't done and has not attempted to do yet, is winning the World Heavyweight Championship.
 
There is no difference, a booking decision wouldn't change based on whether it was April or August. What difference does it make? WWE considers Summerslam to be second only to WrestleMania. Hogan would've won because that was the agreement they came to.

There IS a difference. CM Punk would've never went over Cena at Mania, but at SummerSlam he did. SummerSlam doesn't draw like WrestleMania does, and therefore a put over like Cena would get means a lot more at WrestleMania. When SummerSlam starts pulling consistent Mania crowds, then you can tell me that WWE would have had the same booking in Hogan vs. Orton. Because no matter what you say, Mania put overs and match endings ALWAYS have a different thought process than SummerSlam put overs.

In some cases, yes, the hometown hero gets beaten... Orton lost in St. Louis, but Rock in his return match at WrestleMania is more akin to Punk in Chicago then it is Orton in St Louis.

But what does The Rock gain from it? One last win before going back to Hollywood to make another kid's movie while WWE's current cash cow gets squashed and loses so much credibility? Beating the Rock in this scenario would benefit Cena more than losing to him, and that's why Vince will have Cena win.


The word "Draw" literally means to bring in viewers, merchandise sales and Drawing are completely different things. John Cena cannot draw like The Rock.

Has Cena sold more shirts? We have no proof, but I'm sure he has, as internet shopping was nowhere near as prevalent as it is now. Back in the late 90's you actually had to go to a show or order from a catalogue to get licensed merchandise.

and then there's the fact that Cena has about three to five new shirts every year, being sold to the same kids over and over again... it's not an apples to apples comparison

Comparisons are always apples to apples... majority of the time they're oranges to apples because of their differences and slight similarities. That's why they're called comparisons.


The Rock DID NOT have the help of Stone Cold or HBK... Michaels was out LONG before The Rock became champ, and Stone Cold went home. Triple H helps, but he was never the face of the company... at least not back then.

Someone didn't watch the Corporation vs. Stone Cold feud. Otherwise they'd know that Austin vs. Rock was the main feud. Then again, 2008 and later fans usually don't do their history :)




Let's take a look at that...



I believe we were specifically talking about new talent, and aside from Nexus (who he never had a match with and your claim he put them over is a bit of a stretch) everyone of those examples is an already established veteran world champion all having at least ten years WWE/WCW experience a piece.

And even then, only two of those listed even beat Taker... neither of them cleanly. And how the Hell did Taker make Punk look like a main eventer? By squashing him in under ten minutes in the opening match of Hell in a Cell? Don't be ridiculous...

Rey Mysterio and Chris Jericho may have been main eventers already, but when they both went over Taker, their popularity at the time grew dramatically. Kane's second WHC reign was only as strong as it was BECAUSE he went over the Undertaker three straight PPVs in a row, cleanly.

Did you NOT see the entire storyline? CM Punk got possibly the biggest push one could get by reliving the Montreal Screwjob... IN MONTREAL. CM Punk became the top heel on Smackdown after that, and would continue to move on to facing big time names like Rey Mysterio and Big Show where he made even bigger impacts. CM Punk was put over by Taker, and benefited in ways one couldn't imagine.



You never addressed that.




You may have "addressed" him not going by The Rock, but you sure as hell didn't make any points whatsoever.



Really.



I'm not denying Triple H is a star, he's just not at Rock's level. I said Rock/Triple H is similiar to Hogan/Luger... Luger was over, got great ovations, was a star in every sense of the word... just never reached Hogan's level. Same with Trips. i agree he's a huge star and can give a great rub, just not as big of one as The Rock.

But Luger WAS over in the 90s. He was possibly one of WCW's biggest draws and was usually the driving force going against Hogan. He was pulling in the same popularity as Hogan...

Triple H is the same way in comparison to The Rock. Triple H is still known by a lot of mainstream people who don't watch wrestling and going over Triple H in the WWE is essentially more beneficial when one really stops to think about it. Triple H is in line to own the company one day, so if a star is being put over Triple H then surely Triple H has a lot of faith in that star to push him higher.


Let's face it, there's only two ways to get a rub from The Undertaker... one is to be an established star to begin with, and the other is that he gets to squash you in return.


He didn't squash Khali though... Batista did.


Edge & Lesnar did get nice rubs from Taker, but he never would've done it if Cena and Rock didn't put them over first.

And even then, I'm not saying beating Taker won't put you over, I'm just saying that beating Rock means more.

To who? Hollywood? In the wrestling world, to wrestling fans, going over anyone who was over in the Attitude Era seems to be an equivalent put over. Jericho putting over Punk today seems just as important as Rock vs. Cena to the people who watch the product constantly... or even periodically. So other than maybe two or three talent scouts looking to fill a movie role, The Rock isn't that much bigger than your average attitude era stars. People just think he is because he managed to make a few movies... which really is ironic considering he's still getting the lame duck roles, but that's another topic.



Once again, not saying there's no rub, just not as much of one.



No, CM Punk proved that HE can bring in new viewers, not "any star." but aside from Punk, what guy has brought in that kind of viewership spike? Cena hasn't. Orton hasn't. Ryder hasn't. Punk is one of a kind.

Randy Orton's last WWE title reign on Raw DID cause rating spikes though. The Miz's WWE title reign also brought in more viewers when he won the WWE title. Sheamus did the same after his first WWE title win. I'm just saying, there are a lot of stars who can catch lightning in a bottle and bring up ratings. It's just up to WWE to harness those talents.

And Ryder has made an impact. He may not bring in ratings, but he moves t-shirts and other merchandise. That alone proves that he has the ability to get over if he were to become the main focus of Raw, or even Smackdown.

D. Bryan is also bringing interest to Smackdown with the recent increases everytime he goes around yelling "YES! YES! YES!" but since the show's named after The Rock's catchphrase, I'm going to guess the Rock is the cause of that, right?


Why are you talking about Samoa Joe in the same breath as Austin, Rock, and Punk? Samoa Joe is a jobber in TNA.

But in 2008, when Joe did his anti-Scott Hall shoot promo, he got as much buzz as Punk did when he did his "I'm quitting in Chicago" shoot promo. Thus proving that with the right



What do you mean "Still in the 3.5's" RAW was in the upper 2's... Rock bumped it to 3.5.

I'm with you on Punk, as I said, he's a one of a kind talent, and if The WWE had more than one CM Punk, they wouldn't have to rely on Austin, Rock, Triple, and Taker to boost ratings.

But WWE does have that kind of talent... but the fact is that if they put the title on The Rock, who won't be on tv every week to be recognized with it, then they will be taking away from those talents. For example, if WWE continued to put on matches like they did on Raw with D. Bryan vs. CM Punk and would just let them continue, ratings would be great. If WWE would give someone like The Miz the microphone and more highlighted television time, he would bring in ratings. Hell, he has brought in ratings. Last year, to me, he proved that he's just as quick on the mic as the Rock is...


notice: I will answer the quoted spots I haven't responded to. I simply have to get off work first.
 
im a big rock fan, i still get goosebumps when he appears on raw. but the thought that he would be wwe champion this year? please no. the rock is already a legend, former 7 time wwe champion, accomplished pretty much everything, what would be the need to give him the belt when you have guys like ziggler and barrett and rhodes etc, that would miss out on that opportunity. the only way it would work is if the rock was to lose to one of those guys, and that puts them over, but i dont really see that happening. i believe he still will be around after wrestlemania, make appearances every now and again, maybe a feud with cm punk at some point?, but he doesnt need the title. it wouldnt prove anything.
 
Can't be bitter of a person I wasn't really a fan of, can I?
Sure ya can..you seem to prove it in every post you put up.



Cena can't bring Hollywood to Vince? How about the fact that Cena's always on Talk Shows, always making new movies, always guest starring on TV shows? He's still wrestling and still makes movies... how is he NOT bringing in Hollywood?

Hollywood's been paying attention to WWE for over 20 years, don't give The Rock all the credit when Hogan was starring in Rocky movies long before that.
No. Cena CAN'T bring Hollywood to Vince. So what he's on talk shows. The Miz is on talk shows. Sure Cena is making movies. He's making the movies that VINCE puts him in. WWE Films is backing Cena, not Hollywood. Every Cena film has failed MISERABLY so yeah, no he can't bring vince Hollywood. Hollywood has NOT been paying attention to the WWE for over 20 years. WWE wrestlers have been doing movies but none, and the ROCK MEANS NONE, has had the acclaim or the success that the Rock has had since starting his movie career. None of them has had the box office success nor have they had hollywood staying power. The Rock CLEARLY has both. So...yeah your point is moot. On to the next....



How does JR's BBQ blog proving it sound?
Sounds like you still haven't provided the numbers to prove your point.
So i'm gonna say you can't.


Undertaker can still move, or did you not watch his past few Mania matches?
What in the blue hell are you talking about? What does Undertaker being able to move have to do with the point I was making?
I said the Rock is HEALTHIER than the undertaker and moves better than austin and triple H....Firstly, Undertaker, may be able to move but he's old and getting stale and the only way he's able to put on the kind of match that he does at WM is because he has to take 6 months to a year off to recover.
anyway....


Why take offense to it? If someone went up to Adam Sandler and called him "Big Daddy" do you really think he'd be mad about it? Do you think Jason David Frank would be mad about people calling him Tommy from Power Rangers, even though he's an undefeated MMA Fighter?

It's called being recognized for what you did. Why would you take offense to someone who admires your work? It's selfish.
:disappointed:This is called missing the point.
The Rock didn't want movie personel or casting agents referring to him as the Rock because he didn't want them to see him as his former character but as a legitimate actor who wanted a shot at playing different kinds of roles. Thats why he played a Tooth fairy, and a Gay man, and all of these different roles. He didn't want to be typecasted. What is it about that, that you don't get? He wasn't turning down autographs from wrestling fans..He wasn't telling kids who called him the Rock to get out of his face. He wasn't dissing the WWE by saying that he wanted to be called Dwayne. If he was as you say dissing the WWE, then why does he have part ownership of "the Rock"? If he was really trying to distance himself from the character why not just let the WWE have it? Because he's proud of it. But when it comes to his movie career, I think its perfectly fine that he wants to be taken seriously as an actor. Its people like yourself who can't separate the fiction of professional wrestling from the world outside the ring.



In the past two years, he put over...

Chris Jericho - Elimination Chamber 2010. Sure, he's been main eventer before, but a win over Taker is never anything less than a put over.
...an already over Chris Jericho....
HBK - WrestleMania 26 (Yes, HBK lost but you don't need to win to be put over. HBK looked like a serious threat, thus he was put over.) If you want, you can take him out since he's BEEN over.
:lmao:Uh yeah, you knew that was happening.
Rey Mysterio - Smackdown May 28, 2010. He won, yes, but what happened after that put Rey Mysterio in the world title picture which gave him a World title reign.
I said....find someone that he put OVER who wasn't. You've not named a single person YET who wasn't already over.
Kane - Summer of 2010 (From Night of Champions, all the way until SummerSlam, Kane defeated Taker in back to back confrontations)
:banghead:already over...next....

Nexus (Otunga, Slater, Gabriel, Harris, and McGuillicutty) - Say what you want, but their attack on the Undertaker during that Buried Alive match put a further interest into the group. It might have failed as a group later, but that night helped them.
:confused:How? How did it help them? Did they turn that into a program with the Undertaker? Did it help their status as they very soon afterward fizzled out into two separate groups that totally sucked.......Next.
Triple H - WrestleMania 27, again he lost but he was still put over by looking like a viable threat. If you want, you can take him out since he's BEEN over.
:lol::lol::lol:
You.MUST.Be.Joking.
Did you JUST Start watching wrestling???? Goodness man.....Yeah. i'm gonna take him out.
By my count, that's 9 people in two years, and if you take out DX, that's still 7. The Rock put over maybe that many his entire career. Undertaker has never been stingy to the point that he doesn't put someone over.
Lets do some math shall we?
Jericho+HBK+Mysterio+Kane+Nexus+Triple H=?
That, by MY count, is six examples. Even if you count out the individual members of Nexus as you listed them, it would be 10 people.
(not nine)
If you then subtract the amount of people you allowed me to take out (Trips & HBK) we'd have 8.
If we THEN took out the amount of people who were ALREADY over, (Jericho, Kane, Mysterio) you'd be left with 5 BUT that would only be five if he had actually put ALL 5 members of the ONE group over. But seeing that he actually only got "buried alive" by the group, and never worked individual programs with ANY of them and he was due to take a break ANYWAY....we're going to call that WWE creative using a group they were trying to push as an excuse for UT to get some down time.
So.....we'll subtract them too.
So...our final equation is:
Jericho - HBK - Mysterio - Kane - Nexus(Otunga, Slater, Gabriel, Harris, and McGuillicutty) - Triple H=_______Nobody he's put over in the last two years.

Well, do you think that if Cena hadn't called out Rock's bluff that Rock would be in WWE?
This WHOLE thing is based on a quote that Cena made in a newspaper. Lets really give this a thorough evaluation. Cena made a quote in a news paper years ago. The Rock addressed it at the Hall of Fame ceremony, but nothing happened until last year. Cena is now making a big deal of the statement that he wasn't leaving again. So he's working with the WWE on a part time basis and this is what you have a problem with?


Put over some young talent. Ric Flair has always been able to do that, even when he WAS world champion. The best of the best have all stuck around to put over some young talent and show them the ropes. HBK, HHH, Kevin Nash, JBL, Stone Cold, Bret Hart, Hulk Hogan, Kurt Angle, Booker T, Mick Foley... because they love this business and want to see the next stars become like them. Why couldn't The Rock be the same? Why did he have to snub the up and comers from some much needed help?

Even you would have to admit that having someone like The Rock give you advice on how to improve would be a huge jump for someone's career.
So....putting over people like Brock Lesnar (someone who in my OPINION had NO BUSINESS winning the world title when he did. He couldn't talk he wasn't ready and had it not been for Paul Heyman would have been just as viable as Batista knock off they got now) and the Hurricane wasn't enough? How many young guys, in your opinion, would he have had to put over in order to leave in your good graces? Gimmie a freakin break.



Really? Cause the way it looks, all of you "here to stay" quoting Dwayne lovers need to check into reality.
get your own material.


Because it is a fact. Why not give back to the company that made you who you are? Why not show up at least once for the fans who put Rock in those movies to begin with? Face it, without the WWE fans, The Rock would be jack shit... and yet he doesn't want them to recognize him at all? How does that NOT say "screw you" to the fans.
:banghead::banghead::banghead:
Again, for you and all of your cenation brethren in the cheap seats.
The Rock NEVER ONCE said that he didn't want his fans calling him "the Rock". He never dissed off any fans. He never dissed off the WWE. He never said that he was ashamed of his character. He wanted to distance his ACTING CAREER from his WRESTLING CAREER so that he could compete for any role without being typecasted. WHAT is it that you DO NOT GET ABOUT THIS??????????

you guys kill me...
 
No. From a business standpoint, technically, it would be a smart move. But you have to think about all the factors in this. The rock is not sticking around after wrestlemania. Maybe a couple special appearances in the next couple years, but this is his final match. This is the exact reason they decided not to have the match for the title. Its too obvious who would win. John Cena. But if its just a classic match, then it has more than one possible outcome. It would be pointless to put the title on rock if hes not going to stick around to defend it and build up feuds defending it.
 

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