OldSchoolWrestlingFan
Pre-Show Stalwart
In this day and age of "reality" based wrestling/gimmicks do you miss WWE having more "characters" (like Warrior, Undertaker, Kane, etc) or do you like the "reality era"?
Characters or Reality
- Thread starter OldSchoolWrestlingFan
- Start date
You have to realize that everyone that is on screen in the WWE is portraying a character. It may be a character based on an aspect of themselves, however, its a character nonetheless. Do I miss the cartoon like colorful comic book heroes and villains of the golden age? No and there's no way a gimmick like those would work today because the audience now is much to smart for that. Even the casual fan is to smart for that. People love to throw in 'Taker as the ultimate example that its possible, but 'Taker was one in a million. He gets a pass today because of respect. If he were to debut today talking about souls and what not, he'd either be laughed at or ignored. Ask The Boogeyman.
showtyme27
The New Mr.WWE, Beat Me if You can!
Can't say that I do. Nowadays it seems so out of place to see a character wrestler, l think it had it's time and place but today with all of Us "Smart Fans" it will forever be a relic of the past. Whenever I see a gimmick character I just know no matter how they are booked They will sooner rather than later be regulated to the role of jobber, as seen with Fandango, Los Matadors, Santino, Emma, The Ascension and many many more. Not to say there hasn't been slight glimpses of breakout star power and/or talent from any of them, in this day and age Cartoonish gimmicks have and should be left in the past IMO.
BillAlfonsos_Whistle
Getting Noticed By Management
Most of the best talents in the WWE have close to cartoonish characters.
Rusev (CLASSIC foreigner heel)
Rollins (CLASSIC over the top coward heel...best since Edge)
Cena (Nothing "real" about a Super heroic white rapper)
Wyatt (Do you know any Cult leaders in real life?)
My point is...the characters just have to be modified. It's the same reason why Cesaro can't get FULLY over. He needs some element of character. Same thing is destined to happen to Owens and any other guy who just comes in as "A guy"
Also why Bailor is gonna be a MASSIVE star.
Rusev (CLASSIC foreigner heel)
Rollins (CLASSIC over the top coward heel...best since Edge)
Cena (Nothing "real" about a Super heroic white rapper)
Wyatt (Do you know any Cult leaders in real life?)
My point is...the characters just have to be modified. It's the same reason why Cesaro can't get FULLY over. He needs some element of character. Same thing is destined to happen to Owens and any other guy who just comes in as "A guy"
Also why Bailor is gonna be a MASSIVE star.
@smarkmouth
Friendly Neighborhood
With respect, I think the OP is looking at this conversation from the wrong angle. When you compare the ons screen personas of today versus yesteryear, we aren't talking Characters (yesteryear) versus Reality (today). A more relevant diconomy would be Gimmicks versus Characters.
My thesis being that a Gimmick is a one dimensional version of a character, following one archetype and giving no nuance to the persona. A great modern day example of this would be Heath Slater. His One Man Rock Band gimmick would fit the golden era of WWE like a glove. Alternatively, try bringing Honky Tonk Man to modern WWE and see how long he can hold on to the IC title.
A Character, on the otherhand, may root his persona on an archetype, but is otherwise a fully fleshed out entity with a life of It's own. It's refined, dynamic and doesn't cleanly fit in simple molds such as a simple "redneck" or "lunatic". Modern audiences in ALL mediums want refined and interesting characters. A redneck also needs a cult following and offer allegiance to a rocking chair. A lunatic also needs a chip on his shoulder and insatiable thirst for revenge. A high school science teacher also needs to deal meth to leave money for his family after he dies from his terminal cancer, which in turn satiates a missed opportunity from his path of life that cost him billions of dollars in a pharmaceutical empire (also, needs to role model a healthy young man to vicariously replace his own son, who is broken in his own eyes).
I believe we as fans and smarks are willing, and dare I say, eager to welcome a gimmick. But, we also beckon refinement of said gimmicks.
My thesis being that a Gimmick is a one dimensional version of a character, following one archetype and giving no nuance to the persona. A great modern day example of this would be Heath Slater. His One Man Rock Band gimmick would fit the golden era of WWE like a glove. Alternatively, try bringing Honky Tonk Man to modern WWE and see how long he can hold on to the IC title.
A Character, on the otherhand, may root his persona on an archetype, but is otherwise a fully fleshed out entity with a life of It's own. It's refined, dynamic and doesn't cleanly fit in simple molds such as a simple "redneck" or "lunatic". Modern audiences in ALL mediums want refined and interesting characters. A redneck also needs a cult following and offer allegiance to a rocking chair. A lunatic also needs a chip on his shoulder and insatiable thirst for revenge. A high school science teacher also needs to deal meth to leave money for his family after he dies from his terminal cancer, which in turn satiates a missed opportunity from his path of life that cost him billions of dollars in a pharmaceutical empire (also, needs to role model a healthy young man to vicariously replace his own son, who is broken in his own eyes).
I believe we as fans and smarks are willing, and dare I say, eager to welcome a gimmick. But, we also beckon refinement of said gimmicks.
showtyme27
The New Mr.WWE, Beat Me if You can!
These are all examples of people that modernized aspects of the WWE's Cartoonish past and bound them more in reality to successful degrees and while I understand The point You are trying to make I just so happen to disagree.
Cesaro is an incredible talent that was on the brink of a breakthrough while He was in the Real Americans, then the WWE decided to capitalize on that by teaming Him with an awe-inspiring Mic worker in Paul Heyman who facing facts wasn't the best manager in the world for Him giving Him a dopey ring name "The King of Swing" then taking away the very signature move that not only inspired the name but got him over in the first place. The truth is Vince doesn't believe in Him so He will probably never get the opportunity He truly deserves as IMO He is an Main Event level talent, that suffers from the same issue as Chris Benoit in the 2000's low charisma, high wrestling ability and let's face facts the very unique Daniel Bryan situation can only happen so often. On a side note I do hope Vince and the WWE have become aware of just what type of talent they hold with Cesaro as He has received a healthy push as of late that I for one hope continues.
Kevin Owens is anything but "A Guy" unlike Cesaro He has a character in place that He excels at, IMO He has yet to truly show all He can do in the ring nevertheless on the mic. This "Guy" is the total package IMO and I pray the higher brass in the WWE sees that also.
I hate to disagree with You one last time but Finn Bàlor has not impressed Me one bit, I am a true fan of wrestling so I know He is a decent worker in the ring and has an interesting character but His sloppy in ring work and lackluster WWE moveset doesn't give Me much to look forward to other then His entrance. Last Yes I am familiar with His work over in Japan as Fergal Devitt, former Leader of The Bullet Club but to tell the truth I wasn't really high on Him then either.
pipebomber
Pre-Show Stalwart
This exactly. Gimmicks are one dimensional, characters have layers.
Why Did the undertaker gimmick work? Because with time layers were added to the gimmick. Why is bray Wyatt starting to fizzle? Because he is still the same bray Wyatt he was when he debuted.
Some gimmicks are better than others and have a longer shelf life than others, but they require a superstar who sees past the gimmick to the character behind the gimmick as well as a creative team dedicated to evolving the characters and not keeping them in the same mold they have always been in. And I don't mean change from heel to face 20 times either
WhiplashUnited
Occasional Pre-Show
Do we all know a cult leader in real life? Not everyone has to know one in real life to get the concept. The ones that have been literally affected by a real cult leader will see the parallels plus anyone that watches the news then you do. Celebrities, politicians, sports fans, not that much different fundamentally. They all 'teach' you who the enemy is or why you should only listen to them.
The reason Kevin Owens 'character' works so well is because it has that 'CM Punk: I'm sick of the same six ********s who are main eventing angst' that all long time fans feel that finally a wrestler is identifying with the audience.
The reason Kevin Owens 'character' works so well is because it has that 'CM Punk: I'm sick of the same six ********s who are main eventing angst' that all long time fans feel that finally a wrestler is identifying with the audience.
Right from the start, like it was already said, every single performer its a character. With that in mind, i dont think that the 80s early 90s type of gimmicks would work today.
Taker and Kane still works because the long history they had and how much invested the fans are with them after all this years.
But even them needed to tweak A LOT their characters to survive to this days.
Check early Kane`s apparences, or takers first 8 years, and they are very very different to what they are today.
Yes, the general concept of deadman....souls, devils favorite demon are still there, hell they are even refered as brothers when 100% of the audience knows they are not.
Again, the main key here, for these two is years and years that fans invested in them.
Taker and Kane still works because the long history they had and how much invested the fans are with them after all this years.
But even them needed to tweak A LOT their characters to survive to this days.
Check early Kane`s apparences, or takers first 8 years, and they are very very different to what they are today.
Yes, the general concept of deadman....souls, devils favorite demon are still there, hell they are even refered as brothers when 100% of the audience knows they are not.
Again, the main key here, for these two is years and years that fans invested in them.
lil steroid meat
Unregistered User
Definitely prefer characters.
That whole "reality" thing with pro wrestling died in the 90's. In the 90's you had the freedom content-wise, to be exaggerated versions of yourselves. If Stone Cold was a redneck who liked beer in real life, he could amp that up 10x for TV.
But now that the WWE is trying to be more PC, their idea of these character-less reality wrestlers just make for watered down average joes fighting. Like why should I care about Orton or Cena or Reigns? They're just buff dudes fighting.
If you aren't gonna let the characters be true extensions of themselves, then bring back characters where everyone is playing a defined role. It works for Bray and even if you look at Brock, the Beast thing works for him.
I definitely want to see more characters. We're all aware it's fake, no need to have boring television with "realistic fake fighting".
That whole "reality" thing with pro wrestling died in the 90's. In the 90's you had the freedom content-wise, to be exaggerated versions of yourselves. If Stone Cold was a redneck who liked beer in real life, he could amp that up 10x for TV.
But now that the WWE is trying to be more PC, their idea of these character-less reality wrestlers just make for watered down average joes fighting. Like why should I care about Orton or Cena or Reigns? They're just buff dudes fighting.
If you aren't gonna let the characters be true extensions of themselves, then bring back characters where everyone is playing a defined role. It works for Bray and even if you look at Brock, the Beast thing works for him.
I definitely want to see more characters. We're all aware it's fake, no need to have boring television with "realistic fake fighting".