Changing A Character's Race In TV/Film

[Alex]

So recently the news that Michael B. Jordan would be playing Johnny Storm in the new Fantastic Four movie came with quite a stir with IGN putting out an article on it

http://uk.ign.com/articles/2014/02/25/between-the-panels-why-the-human-torchs-race-doesnt-matter


While there are some valid points in it there are also some misguided ones I feel. Michael B. Jordan may very well have had the best screen test but just having Johnny as black seems like they're going the PC/we need to be diverse route. I know they'll try and play the he and Sue are adopted/half-siblings but it just makes it seem they added a token black character who just happens to be a main character so they can say they're racially diverse. If Sue was also black that would make it seem like they were trying to be less PC-y. I'd have liked to have seen Zoe Saldana as Sue Storm.

I know my point may be a bit muddled but I think it's a valid one. Regardless providing the actors and script are good it should be a good film and I'll probably go see it.

 

[three count bout]

This is a case where it get's a little murky only due to Sue and Johnny being siblings which will probably cause the entire origin of their relationship to be altered. Changing such important details can upset the built in fanbase. I'll reserve judgement until I see the final product as I'm already not too thrilled with the Fantastic Four series after some idiot decided having Galactus as a cloud was a good idea.

Sometimes changing a persons race is good. Black Lex Luthor in the cartoons is awesome and if they found a reasonably good actor I'd accept it in a movie version.
I didn't think (RIP) John Coffey was a good Wilson Fisk in Daredevil so it's definitely case by case and more importantly actor by actor so as long as the script and movie pull it off tastefully I'm not against it.

 

[Akhilleus]

Strangely enough I can honestly picture Michael B. Jordan as Johnny Storm. He just seems to have the right fit. Granted it would be weird for some big fans, but I'm sure that a good quarter of the people watching the movie are actually watching anything Fantastic Four related for the first time anyway, maybe even more than that. I know when I first saw the movie in 2005, I was not only young but I've never heard of the Fantastic Four before that. They can really make the characters into whatever they want though. It's simply based on the comic book stories. The only details they need to keep about it are that his name is Johnny Storm, and he can light stuff on fire.

Anyway what I am more bugged about is the fact that they're actually making another movie. Didn't they just make the Fantastic Four movie? Maybe it's just me, I guess 2005 was a while ago, although the sequel was in 07. Still seems like it was just yesterday though that it came out. I think it's way too soon to be making a reboot, but whatever I guess. If it makes them some cold hard cash then why not?

 

[Dowdsy McDowds]

Honestly, given how many different versions and universes there are in comics, I find it funny whenever people lose their shit when film adaptations do something a bit different.

Sure, there is a general basis and genesis point of all of these characters but kicking up a fuss because in one interpretation of the characters, an origin story has to be slightly tweaked is incredibly hypocritical and idiotic.

Jordan is a very talented young actor who demonstrated his ability to balance out being a cocky-headed jock, with being caring and empathetic in Friday Night Lights so let the dude flame on in peace.

 

[Mustang Sally]

In "The Shawshank Redemption," the character of Red (the narrator and main character) was changed from a white man (in the novel) to a black man (in the movie)......and I was pleased to note that it made no difference at all.

In this case, race wasn't the key to the depiction; the quality of the actor was. Morgan Freeman played the title role and did a masterful job.

 

[jacdnwarrior]

I think there are moments when they do it far too often. I like Michael B Jordan, and I hope he does well with the film and achieves great success. That being said, it's tough to change a character that has been set in stone as a white guy for the last 30-40 years, making the change is a little much. There's been enough associates of the FF who were black or create a character for the film that would still let Jordan apart of the film.I prefer keeping with the writer's vision more than anything if at all possible. You want more diversity put more already established diverse characters in film not alter established characters.

Since we are talking race in tv/ films what happens more often is interracial dating especially the white guy black girlfriend thing in tv shows and films. Now that's okay but when you have so few minority couples on the screen, it looks like a cheap attempt to say you are making an attempt to put more minorities on screen. While interracial dating happens, (more now than ever) it doesn't happen as often as these films or shows might suggest.

 

[Dowdsy McDowds]

I think there are moments when they do it far too often. I like Michael B Jordan, and I hope he does well with the film and achieves great success. That being said, it's tough to change a character that has been set in stone as a white guy for the last 30-40 years, making the change is a little much. There's been enough associates of the FF who were black or create a character for the film that would still let Jordan apart of the film.I prefer keeping with the writer's vision more than anything if at all possible. You want more diversity put more already established diverse characters in film not alter established characters.

Heres a simple question for you; when has it ever been determined that the character MUST be white? Sure, he's Susan's brother but siblings can be related no matter what their ethnicity.

The colour was presented as one colour for a great many years, now he's presented as another. In the grand scheme of things, this doesn't fucking matter. And the whole "not keeping with the writer's vision" as far as comic book characters is concerned is laughable and a terrible stance to have.

An incarnation of a comic book character will be black, so what?

 

[jacdnwarrior]

This is going to be long so you've been warned.

First, I'm all for diversity. I'd like to see more people of different backgrounds and more inclusion on the screen. However, when it's done just for the sake of doing it, just to appease a community, or to pacify that community, that is getting too pc for my taste. Do we change Superman, Batman, Iron Man, Thor, Captain America among others to African, Chinese, Native just for the sake of diversity ? Should someone in a show be switched to being gay just for the sake of gaining attention or support from groups ? It's not just Jordan getting the role, it's this culture of doing something just to please others as though others can't do it for themselves. They could have introduced Jordan in any different matter, he didn't have to be Johnny Storm, (no one does) he could have been Black Panther, or a character that is an associate of the team. Hope he does well, but putting him in that part doesn't address the issue, minority communities must stop depending on other communities to provide them with jobs, (or in this case film roles) and do it themselves, write, produce, create their own film, book characters and it's possible to do so. As someone who used to write (and I hope to get back into it), I prefer keeping to the writer's vision as I'm used to it, I'm comfortable with it, see no real benefit to changing it and you won't have to answer questions for a character back story aspect. Is he adopted ? do they have the same mother or father ? is she adopted ? Jordan (as good as an actor as he is) being there serves more as a distraction from the film, more so than just a so what moment for me. Minor questions, but still some might ask. Why make this change ? Who is that for ? The black audiences didn't ask for it, white audiences didn't demand it they still saw the films, so why do it ? Black audiences support many films and shows that don't have a black actor there (or as a major character) all the time, so it's not really for their benefit, is it ? You don't have to make changes only when asked, but I question why it's necessary for this director or producer to make this change ? Concerns are not major, and things are changed all the time, sometimes I agree with it, other times I don't, sometimes it will mean more money or the actor is a hot commodity in Hollywood right now, but I think it's getting to a point where this need to make every one happy is tough to do and not always justifiable. Many diehard (or not so much) comic book fans might not have a problem with it,they might think it's bold, many will find the change unnecessary and pandering, manipulative even, suggesting that people won't watch without the change, I am the latter.

Here's an example, SNL recently added a black female to their roster after protest and complaint about not a black female on their roster. Accusations of racism were even made. They (producers of SNL, network execs, who knows) caved in. Now I don't have a problem with putting a black female with the cast, if that person is qualified and can help the show. From what I've seem, she's doing fine, great job, hope she's successful, but to do it under these conditions builds a lot of resentment by her fellow workers, the producers (who have been unfairly criticized, imo), by critics, viewers, which could make her job that much more difficult. I hope that's not the case, perhaps it isn't but it can be. I have no problem with diversity, sometimes you have to force it, in these cases (to me at least) it wasn't necessary but I hope it works out for all involved. You want to achieve true diversity, underrepresented communities need to do for themselves and make books, films,shows etc. themselves, which they are already doing.

 

[Dowdsy McDowds]

Yeh, that was a long reply and I didn't see you answer my question so let's just go ahead and assume it's never been written that the character has to be white.

If an actor is good enough then they should get the role no matter what their ethnicity (aside from biographical films). Michael Jordan is a brilliant young actor who deserves a chance to shine in a big family friendly film, even if it is just the Fantastic 4 whose previous 2 films are hardly greatly revered.

Considering that comic books have a history of re-imagining characters in different time periods, origin stories, universes etc., I still can't buy into this whole "oh but that wasn't how the original writer intended it!" bullshit. When writers first create a character, more often than not they are most likely heavily influenced by what the society is like at the time. Societies change and characters need re-inventing to fit that present climate.

Yes, there are some black superheroes already but there's a shitload of white ones too, so getting up in arms about this is just silly.

 

[jacdnwarrior]

Yeh, that was a long reply and I didn't see you answer my question so let's just go ahead and assume it's never been written that the character has to be white.

If an actor is good enough then they should get the role no matter what their ethnicity (aside from biographical films). Michael Jordan is a brilliant young actor who deserves a chance to shine in a big family friendly film, even if it is just the Fantastic 4 whose previous 2 films are hardly greatly revered.

Considering that comic books have a history of re-imagining characters in different time periods, origin stories, universes etc., I still can't buy into this whole "oh but that wasn't how the original writer intended it!" bullshit. When writers first create a character, more often than not they are most likely heavily influenced by what the society is like at the time. Societies change and characters need re-inventing to fit that present climate.

Yes, there are some black superheroes already but there's a shitload of white ones too, so getting up in arms about this is just silly.

No it hasn't been etched in stone that the character has to be white, but 40+ years of depictions are pretty damn close. I think it's a bad idea, time will tell, we'll see.

 

[Danger Burger]

Its irrelevant. Fact is, it can occur in a family with the right set-up that one child is one race/colour and the other child is another. Will it anoy some people? Sure. Wil it confuse some people? Sure. Will its fucking matter when a bunch of people go into space, get super-powers and beat up aliens etc.? No sir, it will not.

IF they mention anything about them being related, they will say: Here is Sue and Johnny, they are brother and sister. After that, you can deal with it.

I don't care if its PC, I don't care if its diversity, I don't care if it looks peculiar to some people, I don't care what race he happens to be in the comic (which was NEVER important). I DO care if he can play the role well... But MOSTLY I care if he lights himself on fire and punches a bad guy.

PS. I came in expecting you to be asking if a character changed race halfway through a show... Let me know if that comes up!

 

[Alex]

Well I've sat on it a bit and I still find it a bit weird that they decided to have Sue as white and Johnny as black. But I watched the episode of How I Met Your Mother when you're first introduced to Barney's brother (who's black) and after the initial surprise moment you just get on with it. So long as Sue and Johnny have good on screen sibling chemistry it shouldn't be to bad.

Also I just remembered Kenneth Branagh's Much Ado About Nothing where Denzel Washington was Don Pedro and Keanu Reeves was Don John (they're brothers) and they had pretty good sibling interaction in that. Honestly I'm trying to think as to why I didn't bat an eyelid at that when I saw it years ago and the only thing I can come up with is I didn't read or watch anything about people discussing it and just took it for what it was.

It seems the media just likes to make a big deal about anything, and some people get suckered in (and I'm disappointed in myself for being one of them)

 

[Dowdsy McDowds]

Wasn't Captain America black in one of the more recent comic adaptations?

Superman, while still white, had his famous Commie run too.

Rooney Mara is going to portray Pocahontas in an upcoming live-action film.

Nikolaj Coster-Waldau is going to portray Horus in a film about the Egyptian Gods.

The bottom 2 are worth being more upset about from an ethnic portrayal point of view rather than Johnny fucking Storm.

 

[jacdnwarrior]

I hope Jordan does well as the Human Torch, I think he's a fine actor and a successful franchise will help his career. People are very resistant to change and the fact is black comic book or rebooted characters (with change of race or not) don't sell books as well (with a few exceptions-Spawn for example). Ultimate comics Spider-man with Miles Morales, had some backlash, ran for 28 books and now has stopped. The support for this reboot,re-imagined character wasn't realized. Will FF be different ? I'm not sure. This change happened with a series that wasn't very well thought of based on the previous incarnation.

BTW, is there any superhero who would be off limits to a change in race or gender ?

 

[Dirk]

From reading that article, Jesse Schedeen sounds like the worst sort of annoying, lemon-scented, permanently outraged, PC-asshole I try to avoid in real life.

The moment he lost my support is where he denies that the motivation behind this is the whole diversity thing by saying that we weren't there at production, so we don't know the motivation. If I had a nickel for each time I come across this, written by a delusional mark...

Another point Shit-deen makes (I'm not proud of that insult) is that Alba is half-Hispanic and that there shouldn't be a line that suddenly makes a colour offensive. What I'M saying is that it's not a difference in colour that offends, but a difference where people NOTICE. I know many casual film-goers who think she's white.

As to the new Torch being black... Eh, Schedeen's soft-bodied article bothered me a lot more. Replacing Johnny was bound to happen, both from an in-universe perspective and outside of it:

*You can't have Torch looking like Captain America. How do you explain that? They certainly aren't related, unless Cap got it on with Sue's mom and ditched her pregnant groupie ass and thankfully he's too old-school for that. Even so, he'd be frozen and I know from personal experience that the cold will not help conception.

*From a more realistic perspective, Chris Evans is Captain America now and that's which Marvel hero he's known for. That and the Avengers-franchise alone is probably going to give him a job until 2020 and Captain America is a much bigger deal than Human Torch (as portrayed by Americans to Americans, anyway ). I know there's a studio reason why the Fantastic Four can't be in an Avengers movie (that's another discussion altogether), but if it were to happen, Chris Evans would need to pull double duty and I just can't see it.

If the character of Johnny Storm (as seen in film) had a cultural element as a core quality, I could see the importance of his race to plug into our prejudices, but as far as I know he's not extremely rooted in any ethnic background. He's just a hot-headed thrill-seeker and you get people like that all over the world, irrespective of race.

Apart from all this...

SAMUEL L. "MOTHAFUCKIN" JACKSON played Nick Fury and it was a trouser-tightening adventure from start to finish. Are YOU better than the man of a thousand death-stares?

 

[harrythem]

I can't see why they couldn't have changed both the siblings race if they're going to go for it, would make more sense than whatever bastardized backstory they give them (I'm betting on the underprivileged black boy gets adopted, resents his sister looking down on him and his hot-headed ways....super powers then ends up saving the team and realising they're all the same blah-blah-blah).

Changing races would effect some characters to the point that I can't see it being done...such as Blade is always a black guy (ditto for black panther) and James Bond, no matter how much Idris Elba would be awesome in the part, has to stay white (ditto for Superman & Batman)...

Race isn't really an issue for us every-day film goers but it seems to be an issue that higher ups on TV seem desperate to address/stir the pot with....

Slightly off topic but we've had the BBC going on about how Match of the day has too few females involved with it, even though it's a show about football with all the pundits being former players and sometimes hosted by a woman, PC sucks!

 

[Phreak]

I personally think that if they can capture the spirit of the character then it's all good. I admit I wasn't a fan of Daredevil(the Affleck factor killed it for me). However the character of Fisk was played correctly. He pulled off the swagger of the Kingpin. Personally as long as they pull of the spirit of the character there is no problem. Consider Elementry. Not only did they change the ethnicity of Watson but the sex. She is by far one of the more entertaining secondary characters on the show.