Brock Lesnar is ruining wrestling, and we're watching self-indulgently.

Discussion in 'The Wrestling Archives' started by AegonTargaryen, Jan 18, 2016.

  1. AegonTargaryen

    AegonTargaryen Championship Contender

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    1)Like I stated in another thread, I'm watching Battleground 2015 just now, so as to catch up with stuff I've missed from the last 2 years.

    2)So it's the mainevent and suplex city chants break out already, Rollins resists the first two attempts of the G-suplex, only to be G-suplexed later, like 5-6 times. Brock Lesnar's smiling smugly, complacently, looking like an utter moron.

    3)I can't help but be fervently displeased and outraged. Even a part of the audience was booing, but a part chant "suplex city". So I wonder. Is this the same damn guy who wrestled a classic match with Kurt Angle at Wrestlemania? Or was it on account of Angle?

    4)The suplex city chants must be a trend originated maybe only a year ago, but I utterly despise the chants and twitter BS that has thus been lavished on the glorious artform that is pro wrestling since 2010. From the ridiculous ape-like YES chants to superfluous "this is awesome" chants. And "suplex city" seems no different. If anything, all I saw in the Battleground match and otherwise from Brock is lame attempts at trying to either please the crowd or please himself by executing the G-suplex. Yes Brock, we know you're a substantial beast incorporate. But please try to fucking give something back to us, for the ridiculous amount of money you get. It's really like how back in 2004-2005 I used to keep German-suplexing my opponents (as Kurt Angle and Chris Benoit) in the WWE video game. But even I did it with finesse, as did Angle and Benoit in actuality. So why does Brock get all this money to just play a video game and annoyingly German-suplex an opponent in the mainevent match for the WWE WHC ?

    5)I have profoundly admired/liked/loved/respected Kurt Angle, for years now. The suplex city chants would suit him more, for being a genuine suplex machine besides being an amazing athlete. I liked Chris Benoit as well. I remember Royal Rumble 2005 and Jim Ross screaming "Angle is suplexing the world"..and later Shawn Michaels reverses the Angle Slam and sweet chin musics him out of the Rumble. That's how to be a suplex machine and please the crowd, Lesnar.

    6)Until recently, I believed Lesnar was awesome, a fucking attraction. But I have already known this- Paul Heyman's "I'm Paul Heyman and my client the beast..blah blah blah" is one of the most tedious, unoriginal and unimpressive schtick in Wrestling right now. I didn't particularly care about the Lesnar-Taker match from WM, or their recent feud. The only matches of Brock I enjoyed(after his 2012 return that is) were against Cena and Punk. I see no utility whatsoever, as a fan, in watching Brock, if he's only going to be a ****** who does like ONE move throughout a mainevent match. I must seem to you to be a bit angry, even incoherent. But passion doesn't know coherence!

    To end summarily, Brock Lesnar has very little to offer as long as the WWE pay him lavishly, he shows up with his stupid self-contained attitude, German suplexes a few wrestlers and leaves. IMO anyway. While Kurt Angle still gives his heart, blood, sweat and soul to a tiny company, Brock makes millions and ruins wrestling, and we keep watching.

    Your thoughts?
     
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  2. OYDK

    OYDK King Of The Ring

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    Well, I assume he's smiling because he's kicking the crap out of Rollins? He's smug and complacent because he knows Rollins has no chance against him. It's the gimmick, and part of the story being told in the ring. What's stupid is smiling while getting your ass kicked...


    Have you watched Mania 19? Angle in no way carried Brock, it was a fantastic showing from two of the purest wrestlers to ever step into a wrestling ring. Things are different now. Brock did actually used to have back-and-forth matches until he ended The Streak, it was only after beating Taker that he began to destroy his opponents with multiple suplexes. Don't be fooled though. Brock wrestles this style because WWE wants him to. I have no doubt he can pull out 4 star matches whenever he damn well pleases. Hell, 2 of his matches in 2015 were nominated for MOTY.


    Point of wrestling is pleasing your fans. The fans obviously love Suplex City.


    Because he draws. He makes the company more money than anybody else when he shows up. His wrestling style hasn't affected that.


    Yes there are a few fans that feel this way. As I'm seeing more and more of these threads pop up, I think eventually the crowd will begin to turn on Lesnar. Only seems like a matter of time now.

    My thoughts are that Angle is a wrestling mark, Lesnar is a money mark. Angle has extreme passion for the wrestling business and probably only still wrestles because of his love for it. Lesnar on the other hand is in it to make as much money as possible while doing the least amount of work possible. We're talking about two completely different wrestling mindsets here. It's almost like comparing Bret Hart to Goldberg.
     
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  3. pipebomber

    pipebomber Pre-Show Stalwart

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    so... explain to me how you german suplexed someone in a video game with finesse?

    as has been stated he is getting paid to do those things because that's what wwe wants him to do, not because he is incapable of putting on 5 star matches. the crowd chants for suplex city and wants to see him suplex the crap out of people. that is why he does it. some people don't like it but you cant please everybody ever so that's how it goes.
     
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  4. Jeff Deliverer of Mail

    Jeff Deliverer of Mail Money for nothin, chicks for free
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    That - Main Event- match should be erased from WWEs history books. It wasn't a Main Event level match, the concept was nothing more than SQUASH and made The Champion look ultra weak, even weaker than he was being booked at the time. The only thing that match did was start the Taker - Lesnar feud that they could have done a hundred other ways than wasting a main event match for.
     
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  5. L@RISANO

    L@RISANO R.I.P Mustang Sally :( :( :(

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    But, Brock did the same to the 2 WWE Supermen in Cena(SummerSlam 2014) and Reigns(Mania 31)... why should Rollins have fared any better?
     
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  6. Jeff Deliverer of Mail

    Jeff Deliverer of Mail Money for nothin, chicks for free
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    You have a point. Yet, we're you left saying...Wow , what a great Main Event that was! Or....That sucked Monkey Dick. I'd guess Monkey Dick on Main Event squash ideas.
     
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  7. Jeff Deliverer of Mail

    Jeff Deliverer of Mail Money for nothin, chicks for free
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    Brock vs Very Old Undertaker in a Hell in a Cell match was a different story all together. Undertaker put on the best match he could with his Godlike counterpart Lesnar.
    Brock ripping open the ring was a cool idea and it added to the match.
     
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  8. L@RISANO

    L@RISANO R.I.P Mustang Sally :( :( :(

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    Well, given the main idea going into that match was to see Brock smash the Scumbag, Traitorface... I think it was going perfectly, until Taker returned and allowed Traitorface to escape once again...
     
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  9. Aquaman6686

    Aquaman6686 Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    Anyone with a brain would agree with all your points, but marks are too busy jacking off to Brock Lesnar to admit that everything you said is true. Brock Lesnar is a scumbag who DESPISES wrestling and cares about nothing but money and his own ego. His matches are garbage, his "mystique" is undeserved and completely unfounded, and the entire company has been handed to him on a silver platter because Vince has been in love with him for 14 years. It's also worth pointing out that there are fans out there who ONLY watch for Brock Lesnar, and tune out of the product whenever he's not around (which is 95% of the year), which is also devastating to WWE in the long run.

    In short, yes, Brock Lesnar ruins wrestling. I've been saying that for years, and it's good that a few others are starting to see the truth as well. The difference is that I DON'T keep watching. I have the Network to watch classic wrestling and I watch the PPVs since I get them free, but I refuse to watch WWE's weekly programming, and Brock Lesnar is a huge reason why.
     
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  10. Sexcellence of Sexecution

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    Except Lesnar never competes on TV and only competes on WWE Network events. So that's probably the most ineffective boycott strategy of all time.

    Let's look at Lesnar's matches in 2016, he had the triple threat with Rollins and Cena which was a match of the year contender and the best triple threat match ever. Then he had a perfect main event with Roman Reigns at WrestleMania 31. Nobody expected that match to be that great and it was absolutely phenomenal and helped everybody invovled. He also had a great Hell In A Cell match with the Undertaker. It was a war that felt like an old school Hell In A Cell match. Pretty imrpessive to pull that off with a geriatric fuck that won't hang up the boots. I mean he only had like 6 or 7 matches in 2016, and basically half of them were amazing.
     
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  11. Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D.

    Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D. Kamehamehaaaaa!!

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    Here's my POV: You're looking at ONE Lesnar match, when the guy has competed in many more entertaining match-ups. CM Punk, Reigns, Cena and Triple H say hello. All of these matches were classic.

    Yeah I agree, the Rollins match was hideous, but it had to prove a point: Not everyone in wrestling are equally strong. Plus the match was there only to set up Taker's return.

    It's not Lesnar's fault, it's his bookers that won't allow him to be booked less strongly.

    EDIT: However the fact that people have been calling Cena "SuperCena" for years and do not dare to call Lesnar, "SuperLesnar", only because he's a "legit fighter" is beyond stupid and hypocritical.
     
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  12. Aquaman6686

    Aquaman6686 Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    I disagree completely. The Triple Threat at the Rumble was amazing, but there were two other guys in there to carry the match. Lesnar/Reigns is one of the worst wrestling matches of all time. I don't know what kool-aid they force-feed people on this site to sing it's praises, it's absolutely HORRID and one of the worst main event matches in WrestleMania history, easily as bad as Lesnar/Goldberg but at least that was mercifully short. And the Hell in a Cell was absolute crap, it was nothing but WWE shoving Lesnar down fans' throats and making Undertaker look like a pathetic, inferior weakling, just like their entire feud did. Lesnar's ONLY great match was the Triple Threat, which was due almost entirely to Seth Rollins.
     
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  13. Jeff Deliverer of Mail

    Jeff Deliverer of Mail Money for nothin, chicks for free
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    That's a pretty whack statement, Brock vs Reigns is definitely not the worst match of all time. It wasn't an excellent match, but it wasn't a bad match either. Saying its the worst of all time is clearly showing you just have a hate on for both wrestlers involved. Some people hate just to hate, but your Brock hate is on a different level than most.
     
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  14. Aquaman6686

    Aquaman6686 Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    It wasn't "bad", it was HORRIBLE. Reigns did nothing but his pussywimp punches and his two moves, and Lesnar was gassed out five seconds into the match as usual, and did nothing beyond the three moves he always does. Boring, generic, bland, and terrible, all the way through. Only Rollins cashing in saved the match from being THE worst closing match in WrestleMania history. It was as bad as Bam Bam Bigelow vs. Lawrence Taylor. The only closing match in WM history that MIGHT be worse was Hulk Hogan vs. King Kong Bundy at WrestleMania 2, that's another one that's near unwatchable. But Hogan/Bundy closed a terrible WrestleMania, while Lesnar/Reigns closed a WrestleMania that was excellent all the way through until their horrendously bad match.
     
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  15. atlporter89

    atlporter89 Dark Match Jobber

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    You my fellow wrestling fan are the absolute dumbest mfer on this site I've come acrossed. One of if not the biggest troll I've ever seen. Nothing you say makes sense Cause your trying to state facts when they're only your opinions. Just because you say Brock sucks don't mean he sucks. I'm sure there's millions of people who I would conside real fans would disagree with everything you stated here. None of it is accurate by any means. Like another stated he only wrestles ppvs which is what you say that you only watch so he's got your attention. He making money off you based on your reaction. Which is what wrestling is all about, a reaction. You keep giving it to him. So he'll keep on suplexing to get people like you to react. Grow the he'll up or move on from wrestling. Garbage just flat out garbage. I'm sure he's not ruining it considering he's about to sell out 100,000+ in cowboys stadium. No logic to yours or the original posters comments.
     
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  16. Dmbfantomas

    Dmbfantomas Bald Billy was Better

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    Brock Lesnar is fine. The schtick is running a bit thin, but honestly all he has to do is start doing more moves. I suspect he will start adding more when the crowd stops chanting Suplex City.

    You know who is really awful though? Heyman. Paul E has never been able to pull off being a face, and he is hurting Bork more than helping him.
     
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  17. Vanilla Midget

    Vanilla Midget Registered Suplex Offender

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    Brock Lesnar is a massive draw and one of few mainstream names involved in the company. You sound more like you're an Angle and TNA fan than you are a Brock fan. That's completely fair.

    The crappy thing about Brock is more his booking. He's basically been booked into WWE God mode since he steamrolled Cena for the title in 2014. Brock is also carrying the lustre of The Undertaker's streak to go along with it.

    Brock is the legit fighter. So what? That now means he can't have matches? He only squashes now unless it's Taker. That's the real issue presently. There's nothing that says it can't start now. Why didn't Kofi get a bit of offence in at Beast in the East?

    Lesnar is in his late 30s, and aside from his intestinal issues, he's never really suffered any kind of career shortening injury. Kurt angle has a surgically repaired neck and has suffered from drug and alcohol addiction for years.

    Don't get me wrong, I've always like Kurt. I'd even argue he's a better wrestler than Brock, I don't think many would argue against that. Brock is physically and mentally more well, younger, and a bigger mainstream name than Kurt. That's just how it is.

    The bad thing about Brock is when he goes over full time guys then vanishes. The only guys he's really gone over on TV are Punk and Cena, the rest have been part timers (Triple H and Taker).

    Rollins stole the show at The Rumble, and again more literally at Mania 31. This years Mania will be the first time Brock locks up with a younger guy (likely Wyatt, Owens, or Ambrose - in that order), so now is the time to let someone beat Brock. I don't know if it's time to transfer the pin yet, that should probably come later, but it's time to transition him into someone who puts over the young guys. New stars are sorely needed, not old ones.
     
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  18. MERPER

    MERPER Championship Contender

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    My thoughts are you have no idea what you're talking about.

    He's the biggest draw in the business at the moment, which is why WWE is paying him as such. And if they didn't he'd have walked right back to UFC and become a ridiculously big draw for them.

    You can be one of the few who don't like him for whatever reason, no wrestler will have 100% of fans supporting and liking them, but you're wrong about several things in your post with regards to his performances and "ruining wrestling."

    Oh, and it's funny that the guy going after everyone who disagrees with you (aka the one guy majorly agreeing with you) has an issue with Lesnar and WWE for having him beat the wrestler he loves to death, The Undertaker.
     
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  19. J.J.

    J.J. Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    Fans will find something to complain about. Really, Brock is ruining wrestling? Brock is the one guy from a decade ago that most fans haven't grown stale of because of his constant appearances. Brock helped put over Rollins to giving us one of the most memorable WM moments in quite some time(outside of the streak). Not only did Rollins go over Brock but it solidified him as the top heel in the company.

    I'm not even a big Lesnar fan but nobody on the roster is more over than him. If you take away his dominance as a worker you are watering down his character. We all know Brock has more moves in his arsenal but how is him giving suplexs out in the ring any different than Austin in his prime coming out and handing out Stunners? I guarantee if WWE had booked Ryback a few years ago to appear as dominant instead of suffering beatdowns from The Shield, he would be in a much better place on the card.

    Lesnar is our modern day Austin. He's the antihero - just an asskicking machine. The difference between Brock and a majority of the roster is his character looks believable and this was the same perception I had during his first tenure. You're a Kevin Owens supporter - would you say this is Owens was in Brock's shoes getting the attention Brock gets?

    When Lesnar appears you already anticipate carnage but then he leaves you in awe with how he manhandles people in the ring. He's polarizing because he doesn't appear often and sticks to saving his ring work to PPVs. He is a draw. If anything he helps this business more than he hurts it.

    The thing is the crazy part about all this is Brock is what people wanted Reigns to be just in a full time role. Had WWE decided to keep Reigns quiet, dominant and built him that way to be a top guy would it have been a bad thing? Would you have advocated as your posts on here have indicated?

    The problem with WWE(not pro wrestling as a whole) is with the show as a whole is how scripted and overproduced it feels. Everything is contained to its own segment, and leaves you with the sense that everyone has their roles laid out ahead of time. It's all very slick which it shouldn't be. Brock Lesnar comes out and does things he's not "supposed" to be doing, people sit up and take notice because it's like he's going against the script.

    Despite Heyman often speaking for Brock, Brock doesn't need a 20 minute segment to help keep people invested in whatever he's involved in. He comes out and does what he does best. He is the best utilized, perfectly booked guy on the roster. Breaking the streak has helped push him to other levels
     
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  20. Navi

    Navi With the safety off!!

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    You all are wasting your breath when it comes to trying to debate Aquaman and his dislike for Brock Lesnar. Ever since he broke Taker's streak, he has hated him, probably even before that. Nothing you can say or do will change his mind, and that's fine. He is entitled to his opinion, just like everyone else is around here.

    That being said, Lesnar is not ruining professional wrestling. He is a massive draw, and people buy tickets when he is advertised to show up. If anything he put asses in seats at a time when an injury depleted roster needs it the most.

    The only thing I didn't like about Lesnar winning the title was that the belt disappeared off TV for months at a time. Now that it's back and being defended on PPV's I'm fine with it. I would have been fine with Lesnar holding it as well if he had been around more. I really don't think with the Wyatt's again inserting themselves last night we'll see him holding it anytime soon. This upcoming what looks to be Lesnar/Wyatt feud could be quite interesting, but I can't see the Wyatt's going over Brock in the end game, so God knows what the WWE has planned. Another loss for Bray and family I suppose.
     
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  21. Rayne

    Rayne Sally Section

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    I really have nothing to offer this lukewarm pile of horseshit masquerading as a forum thread, but I felt that it would be everyone's major loss if the above two statements were lost with the rest of the dross.
     
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  22. Trill Co$by

    Trill Co$by Believes in The Shield!

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    Are you people serious, or is this like some idiotic level of trolling I've never come to understand? First of all, everyone wants to talk about how wrestling isn't believable because of size differences, and then WWE gives you a guy like Brock Lesnar who steamrolls over virtually a midget compared to him, and you people sit there and bash the damn thing you begged for. How in the hell can you sleep at night? Seriously, do you just stay up and find every tiny little thing to nitpick and then finally make a post about it?

    Brock Lesnar, as previously stated, had Suplexed his way through EVERYBODY... John Cena, Triple H, HBK, Undertaker, Big Show, Mark Henry, Bo Dallas, Kane, Jamie Noble, Joey Mercury, Roman Reigns, CM Punk... the list is endless and yet here he is doing the same thing to a guy like Rollins and you find a problem with it. Brock Lesnar is a beast, and the reason why he does his Suplex Repeat shtick is because HE CAN. Who the hell is going to stop him? Who's going to be bold enough to stand up to him and say, "I dare you to Suplex me, bitch" and then be able to back that shit up? Absolutely nobody. And that's the beauty of Brock Lesnar. He can't lose, even when he does eventually lose. He's just that high on the Boss list. He's like Frieza, a legit badass that does what he wants when he wants.

    The only problem I see in WWE is that they're not building the NEXT Brock Lesnar. But at the same time, why should they? They've got the REAL thing in their hands right now, so why not milk it for as long as possible.
     
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  23. BK Styles

    BK Styles Certified Nerd

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    My thoughts are that you are in the minority. On most points, but certainly when you say he's ruining wrestling.

    First off, is there anyone on the roster with the credentials, ability and appearance of Lesnar. As in, is there a NCAA, WWE, UFC and IWGP heavyweight champion in pro wrestling history, with ridiculous agility and strength and technical ability and the looks of a caucasian Incredible Hulk other than Lesnar? Because I'd say a guy with all of that was a once in a lifetime find. And let's no forget that Lesnar's reputation isn't just from outside sources; he was a pretty dominant fellow in his first WWE run too. His reputation as a star attraction isn't based on his current work, it's based on what he has done and accomplished previously.

    Now, on the suplex point, yes it does get repetative. So was most of Hogans matches. And Flairs. But the formula worked even though it was mostly the same deal. Lesnars deal is he suplexes his opponents to death with a move he has perfected. (also, Lesnar isn't the only one to abuse the German suplex. I remember some matches with both Angle and Benoit where they'd hit ridiculous amounts of German Suplexes. Not just one guy on the roster doing it, but two simultaneously) Now while we see it whenever Lesnar shows up, we don't see it every week and not only does he do it to the lower card guys, he did it to Cena; the biggest star of the last 10 years. Also, Angle has been so guilty of doing the same thing with the Ankle lock in the past. Maybe not quite to the extent as Lesnar but he sure isn't innocent.

    Looking more at him and Angle (as that seems to be the popular comparison) Kurt Angle is the only guy remotely comparable, but Angle's a different beast. He was born to be a pro wrestler, where as Lesnar was born to be whatever the hell he wants to be. People pay to see him because not only is he a beast, but he isn't around that often. Angle has for virtually all of his career been a more regular worker, giving him way more exposure than Lesnar, and is labelled as a technical suplex/submission master. Lesnar on the other hand is few-times-a-year physical freak; when you see someone move as quickly as him at his size and then proceed to destroy people, be they Bo Dallas or John Cena, it feels like an event. Kinda like Hogan going round and Hulking up to beat virtually everyone. Is it a predictable formula? Of course. But it's one that works, and if you're honest, you're waiting to see who is going to break the formula and get one hell of a rub by slaying the beast once and for all.

    And lets not forget that when they did the suplex gimmick for the first time, it was against Cena and it garnered Lesnar a babyface pop because of the shock of how much he dominated. IF WWE have got a winning formula, they are going to stick with it. They're doing the same with Heyman, and I'll fight you on this one; since he's been back Heyman has put in serious 'Best Promo Ever' contenders and been the most consistent microphone performer on the entire roster.

    You can say it's boring, predictable and a waste for all involved and watching when Lesnar rag-dolls someone around the ring and that isn't an issue. To be honest, it does get hard to argue those points. But to say it's ruining wrestling? As in all of wrestling? That's a bit silly and a case of overstating your personal feelings of disliking Lesnars character and status.
     
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  24. AegonTargaryen

    AegonTargaryen Championship Contender

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    True. I felt so too. Just that I was a bit angry at the time.

    Oh I have. I never said Brock wasn't a good wrestler or anything. It's precisely because he's...I have nothing but euology..swift, agile, tremendously athletic that I felt outraged at the booking of the mainevent from Battleground. Also, he has been overdoing the G suplex for quite a while now, which is why you can hear people booing during the G-suplexes from Battleground. And Angle vs Lesnar is one of the greatest matches of all time, which is one of the reasons why I have always liked Lesnar.

    So it's like if Britney Spears were to hire Kirk Hammet and James Hatfield, and all they're allowed to play is the Am, G major and C major chords..but never EVER play a guitar solo? That's how it is. So I guess dumb fans love "suplex city" and a big guy G-suplexing Seth Rollins over and over and over again and that's your mainevent for the WWE WHC. Very entertaining and acceptable, as long as it pleases the "fans".

    Even though the Bret Hart-Goldberg analogy is beautiful(it occured to me too), Goldberg is just a shame. Lesnar is a superb athlete, a humble person on account of his modest background, and yeah, a harder worker than most of us here combined. Just that, his attitude towards pro wrestling/WWE, as aquaman and others often say, isn't all that conducive and positive. Hell, I have read his book and Lesnar comes across as beautifully candid and himself admits that he never cared about wrestling(WWE) or making friends and that his primary goal is to make money and provide for his family. But that's another contentious issue surrounding Lesnar.
     
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  25. AegonTargaryen

    AegonTargaryen Championship Contender

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    Not really. I don't care about TNA ever since Sting left or otherwise. I just love Kurt Angle, and Brock Lesnar to a lesser extent. So yeah, I'm a fan of Lesnar's as well. But in life overall and when it comes to wrestling..I seek evolution, progress, beauty, art, development. I don't mean to say that there shouldn't be anything formulaic. But where's the fun in an awesome beast/athlete like Lesnar overdoing the G-suplex to Seth Rollins in a mainevent match and the fans chanting "suplex city" ? I felt outraged because I respect/like Lesnar, and if it only had to be a squash match, or if they only wanted to use a mainevent match to reignite Taker's feud with Lesnar, like Jeff the deliverer said..they could have done it a 100 other ways.

    Exactly. Kudos to you for all the sensible, rational, concise points you put forward here. The main issue is the booking.

    I'm really unsure about Lesnar and his booking now..now that they've booked him to make Seth Rollins look like a bitch/fool, broken the streak...broken Cena already, already defeated HHH...who really in the future is going to be even remotely credible now? Bray Wyatt? Roman Reigns? The future looks bleak.
     
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