Brock Lesnar couldn't top Kurt Angle

[No Count Pup]

Brock Lesnar usually gets his way. He vanquished Hulk Hogan, The Rock, The Undertaker, John Cena, and the Hardy Boyz with ease. He has won feuds against Triple H, CM Punk, and The Big Show. There is only one guy he couldn't top. That is Kurt Angle.

On the March 13th, 2003 Smackdown Angle pinned Brock from a measly inside cradle... the only move Kurt used in the match. Lesnar looked like a complete chump, worse than John Cena was ever booked. Lesnar defeated Kurt Angle at WrestleMania XIX, but only after a hellacious battle that saw Brock looking like the defeated man after the bell. At SummerSlam 2003 Kurt Angle made Lesnar tap for the victory. Next month Angle and Lesnar had a classic Iron Man Match on Smackdown. Lesnar won, but Angle looked equally strong at the end. In fact, the match ended with Angle wrecking Lesnar's ankle.

Their next high-profile match was when Angle defeated Lesnar by submission in a TNA World Heavyweight Champion vs. IWGP Heavyweight Champion match.

In the rumored backstage shoot match, Angle supposedly got the better of Lesnar.

When comparing the accomplishments of Kurt Angle vs. Brock Lesnar outside of pro wrestling, Angle comes out on top. Olympic Gold Medal trumps UFC Championship.

When Paul Heyman says nobody has reached Lesnar's level of success in professional wrestling, collegiate wrestling, and the UFC, he is suggesting that Lesnar is the greatest fixed and shoot fighter in the world. But the one wrestler in the world that has better credentials, and a better head to head record, is Kurt Angle.

Kurt Angle is a major wrestling star, every bit Lesnar's equal if not more. A continuation of the Lesnar/Angle rivalry could draw big numbers. Do you think Kurt Angle could be as valuable as Brock Lesnar in this era? Is WWE making a mistake by not signing Angle?

 

[Mudlup50]

I'm not that interested. I know a lot of people on here are all about this. I am not one of those people. Swagger is in essence Kurt Angle lite, and that's not a knock at either of them. I'm actually a fan on Swagger, Angle wasn't really at my time. I respect what he's done but I'm not thinking it's that big a deal...personally

Feel free to argue with me on this one. I'm not offended but he's 45 and he'll be 46 by the end of the year. The WWE obviously doesn't care if he walks or not, kinda seems like they don't want him at all. They asked for a full time schedule apparently and he turned them down. If he wants to stay in TNA, than it's his choice.

Are they missing his star power? No not at all, if the audience doesn't watch TNA he hasn't done anything relevant in 8 years...almost a decade! It's not like the Rock where they can watch a movie of his in theaters, yea I know he's in movies and tv shows but not to the extent of Rock or Brock or even Batista. Did the ratings drop when he left? No not to my knowledge. I just don't see it as a huge deal...also less part timers I hate that Wrestlemania we might have Brock, Batista, Triple H, Rock, Sting and maybe Angle. Too many for me

 

[Jack-Hammer]

Eh, I think you're grasping a bit here. You're saying that Angle ultimately came out ahead because Lesnar...what...looked tired after their matches? When I look at them, I see then as being more or less even. Both scored big, decisive wins over the other and some of their matches are all time classics.

As far as accomplishments outside the ring, from a purely athletic perspective, winning an Olympic gold medal is sort of the ultimate accomplishment in the minds of a lot of people. However, from the perspective of an average American person, your average American doesn't really give a shit in most cases. In the Olympics, there are only a handful of sports that Americans give a crap about: basketball, swimming, some of the track & field events, and women's gymnastics. Those are the sports that NBC would show during Prime Time, those sports were featured most prominently in highlights on ESPN's SportsCenter, those athletes, or at least some of them, are the ones to get all the endorsement deals, who appear on various talk shows, they're the ones who wind up on the cover of Wheaties boxes, etc. Those Olympic sports are the money sports For instance, in the 2012 Summer Olympics in freestyle wrestling, there were two Americans who won the gold in two different categories and I'd be willing to wager that FAR more Americans know who the current UFC Heavyweight Champion is than know who those two guys are. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to belittle Angle's accomplishment in any way, winning an Olympic medal is a huge accomplishment, but most people don't really care all that much. Ronda Rousey became the first American woman to win an Olympic medal in Judo back in 2008, but most people didn't know or care about that in the slightest degree until Rousey became the first UFC Women's Bantamweight Champion.

When it's all said & done, as far as WWE and a lot of fans are concerned, Lesnar is the bigger star. Angle has INFINITELY more heart than Lesnar and a genuine love of wrestling, but Lesnar's probably the bigger star. Reportedly, Angle wanted to come back to WWE, despite many past proclamations that he intended to retire in TNA, but WWE was only interested in Angle working a full time deal and had no interest in him as a part timer. I don't know if that's completely true or not, only that WWE isn't really interested in bringing him back. Brock Lesnar, on the other hand, is someone that has a lot more mainstream appeal than Angle. He's also negotiated a sweetheart deal that probably sees him making somewhere around mid to upper six figures for every match he wrestles, I wouldn't doubt he probably makes somewhere from $25,000 to $50,000 for his non-wrestling appearances on Raw.

Also, Kurt Angle's physical health as far as wrestling is in legit question. Angle still looks great, but he's not remotely what he used to be. That's been obvious from the past several in-ring runs in TNA. The last few matches he's worked, if I'm not mistaken, have resulted in angle suffering significant injury. Angle's known for his toughness, often putting off taking time off in order to rest and heal up, but it's obviously been catching up to him in the past few years. Given WWE's barrage of medical exams that any wrestler signing with them has to undergo, I don't know if Angle would pass. Back in 2009, Angle was intending to appear on the 10th season of The Ultimate Fighter as a contestant, but didn't pass the medical exams.

When you consider that WWE could bring in Sting at possibly anytime, Brock Lesnar as current WWE World Heavyweight Champion, the possibilities of The Rock or Batista popping up, speculation regarding the possibility of The Undertaker appearing for WrestleMania XXXI, WWE's not really hurting for star power. For me as a fan at this point in my life, I'm more interested in guys who're the hear & now and possible future of WWE rather than getting a nostalgia kick by seeing guys heavily featured who's best years with the company are a decade or so in the past.

 

[Mustang Sally]

Do you think Kurt Angle could be as valuable as Brock Lesnar in this era?

Yes, if his age & wear weren't squarely in the way. If Kurt were 37 like Brock, it would be amazing to see what an MMA fighter would do against a genuine amateur champion like Angle. Sure, it would be a pre-scripted match if it occurred in a pro wrestling setting, but we'd still probably get an idea of which guy would do better.....regardless of who wins or loses, which is determined in advance, anyway.

Of course, when placing Kurt Angle at age 37 instead of 45, you'd also have to take away 8 years of injuries and all the chemical garbage he's put in his body. Because of those factors, not only would I be afraid to put Angle in the ring with Lesnar, I'd be hesitant to employ him at all......which might be why he isn't working in WWE today.

Then again, despite the fact we've heard nothing from Kurt Angle since his TNA contract expired last month, who's to say we won't suddenly see him do a run-in at HIAC? In WWE, you can't rule anything out.

But as far as the OP contention that Brock couldn't top Kurt, it would depend on how "real" they were staging the contest. If the promoter wants Brock to beat Kurt, he beats him. But the theory behind the argument lies in that "collegiate vs. mixed martial arts" realm that I'd love to see answered by opponents of the caliber of Brock & Kurt.

Today, I think Brock pulverizes Kurt. Eight years ago....I'm not as sure.

 

[Navi]

The Kurt Angle of today is not the Kurt Angle of let's say 10 years ago. He was at one time capable of taking on Lesnar and beating him but not anymore. Lesnar is in much better shape physically and mentally.

I've never really been a Kurt Angle fan. I do appreciate what he's accomplished in his life, but always thought he was a bit full of himself. That is usually what leads to someone's downfall, and in the case might be true. The WWE doesn't need Angle back. Fans might want to see him again, but he turned his back on the WWE quite some time ago, and they just kept going and didn't miss a beat.

I've always found it very interesting that wrestlers who have left the company always want to come back at a later date when their usefulness is no longer required. Is it because they want into the Hall of Fame, or just to say they ended their career's working for the WWE, which looks better than saying TNA was your last job.

If he does come back, it shouldn't be against Lesnar. They can't seem to find anyone on the roster that can take Lesnar on now, nevermind a 45 year old who hasn't been in a WWE ring in over 8 years. A couple of F5's and he'd be done, does he really want to end his wrestling career looking going out that way, I wouldn't think so.

 

[Jonyboyuk2]

If Kurt Angle came back to WWE and was booked like Lesnar has been he would be a valuable asset to WWE. Kurt can still go and he is an incredible athlete. His injuries are not going to allow him to compete full time. Used correctly Angle could make someone a star; plus his retirement match would draw big numbers; and he is a guaranteed Hall of Famer in the WWE.

Angle is one of the best in ring performers ever and if anyone is too young to remember his glory days of 1999 to 2006; I suggest you track down his matches with Rock, HHH, Y2J, Stone Cold, Undertaker, Lesnar, Eddie G, Chris Benoit and even his debut match against Shawn Stasiak; his victory was as if he won the Gold Medal again; that character would still be a storm in the WWE today.

They could even bring him back as part of the Authority; which could give him presence on TV but not have to compete more than a couple of times a year.

To this end; this is why Angle is better than Lesnar; Lesnar never loved Wrestling like Kurt did.

 

[wrestler36]

Yes, WWE is making a mistake not signing Angle, but no, Angle has nowhere near the starpower that Lesnar has. Unfortunately olympic wrestling carries no mainstream press whatsoever, and was almost going to be taken out of the olympics a few years ago. Lesnar was a HUGE UFC PPV draw.

That being said, as a wrestling fan, I wanted so hard for Angle to be resigned. The thought of him going against Rusev at WM would have been perfect. Then, there would be some unbelievable matches with Ziggler, Bryan, Rollins, Swagger, etc.

 

[zohaa]

Yup agree with almost everything.

Although I won't necessarily say that NXT commentary is "old school", on the contrary, it's quite sport-entertainment-y, but delivered way better than in raw and from people that seem to be trained exactly for that.

Also NXT would really need 20/30 minutes more for promos, it's the only thing it lacks (quantitatively, not qualitatively)

But yeah, It is basically the best product WWE put out in a long long while.

 

[rge2010]

Not sure what the 'shoot match' has to do with anything. Lesnar was a National Champion and Angle was an Olympic Champion. Put the spandex aside and Lesnar would kill Angle, now, then, forever.....Angle had a chance to go into MMA a few times but opted for the safe haven of TNA.

In terms of Pro Wrestling the two Lesnar/Angle matches that EVERYONE remembers are Mania 19 and the Iron Man Match, both of which Lesnar came out on top.

In terms of star power it is Lesnar every single time. Lesnar is a star, Angle is a support act which is a) why they let him go and b) why they don't really want him back. Angle was popular but people don't pay or tune in to see Kurt Angle.

 

[boozinjedi]

I remember hearing stories that while they both were in WWE and before shows the two of them would have training type/true amateur wrestling/sparring battles.....and Kurt would come out on top in most of them.
From the standpoint of,that if you put the two of them at their respective primes in a straight up pure amateur wrestling match,Angle would win.

 

[Navi]

Angle had a chance to go into MMA a few times but opted for the safe haven of TNA.
.

Actually according to reports from the UFC, Angle was going to complete on The Ultimate Fighter back in 2008 or 2009 but he failed the medical tests required to be on the show. So I think if he had passed he would have been in the UFC at some point. I don't think he would have gained the achievements that Lesnar did, but he would have had a limited career there somehow.

 

[rge2010]

Actually according to reports from the UFC, Angle was going to complete on The Ultimate Fighter back in 2008 or 2009 but he failed the medical tests required to be on the show. So I think if he had passed he would have been in the UFC at some point. I don't think he would have gained the achievements that Lesnar did, but he would have had a limited career there somehow.

Angle had other offers and opportunities in MMA, not just UFC.

 

[mizowns]

Brock Lesnar is never there, so I don't think he should have the title. Let him drop it anytime now.

He didn't deserve the run, and he shouldn't have the title at all.