Bret Hart Speaks Out On Tyson Kidd Injury

[Jack-Hammer]

Sports Illustrated recently conducted an interview with Bret Hart and one of the topics covered was Tyson Kidd's recent injury suffered during a match against Samoa Joe. Some share Bret Hart's criticism of Joe's "Muscle Buster" finisher while others say that it was just one of those freak occurrences that sometimes happen in wrestling. Bret Hart stated:

"I only know that he’s hurt pretty bad and they’re crossing their fingers,” said Hart. “I’m not sure if he’s going to need surgery, but it seems to me there was a lot of poor planning involved in that injury. I don’t know whose fault it is or why an injury like that happened, but someone is accountable. The WWE has done a lot in the last few years to improve conditions for wrestlers. They have doctors there and they give wrestlers adequate time to prepare, but in looking at what happened with Tyson Kidd, clearly there is still a lot of room for improvement."

As far as the Muscle Buster itself:

"It’s extremely dangerous. The move that Samoa Joe did was reckless, and the way they rushed that match beforehand in the back without giving Tyson time to prepare was mistake. Tyson is, pound for pound, one of the best wrestlers in the world. And that includes his mind. If you went behind the scenes at WWE, Tyson is an intricate piece of so many other matches. It’s a shame that a guy who is that talented and given so much to the company is hurt, but I just hope it’s not so serious that his career is over."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCe-mG0Zhso

The clip above shows Samoa Joe's debut bout in NXT against Scott Dawson and he hits the Muscle Buster at about 45 seconds in. I've looked over it and I've looked over other clips of Joe using the move in other matches and, to me, it doesn't strike me as a reckless looking move; when it's all said & done, the Muscle Buster is little more than a modified suplex. Just as with a traditional suplex, the head of the wrestler taking the move is cradled against the shoulder of the wrestler giving the move.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpiqr3buI5k

This clip shows a variation of 50 suplex styles and there are a good many here that qualify as dangerous and reckless, far more so than the Muscle Buster.

Any wrestling move can be dangerous as they all involve some degree of risk, you either accept that or you simply don't wrestle.

http://forums.wrestlezone.com/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=5

This clip shows the move being used on Kidd during Joe's debut match. Since it happens right at the beginning, you'll probably have to look back over it several times. As in the clip with Dawson, Kidd's head is cushioned by Joe's arm; as a result, it just seems to me that this is just one of those things that just happens. Being a pro wrestler's very physical with each move you take, every move you deliver and every impact takes its toll on you; if do a couple of thousand knee drops over your career, don't be surprised if you develop some knee issues. Roughly a month from now will see the 20 year anniversary of Tyson Kidd's time involved in professional wrestling; like Daniel Bryan, he's wrestled a pretty physical style and it's entirely possible that the impact of the Muscle Buster was simply the last straw before something in his body ultimately decided to give. It may well have been the culmination of two decades of the intense demand wrestling puts on the body rather, again, much like what happened with Daniel Bryan.

At any rate, should the Muscle Buster be banned from use?

 

[THTRobtaylor]

There are a couple of things here, first off it doesn't sound good for Kidd. If he's broken his neck as it seems to be, and Bret is basically delivering the "bad news" here, then he's out for a long time, possibly even permanent, which is a real shame.

As to the move itself, no it doesn't need to be banned, or if you do then you ban a DDT, and basically any move where there is risk of neck injury... ban wrestling while you're at it, or perhaps Bret wants a return to the days of the Atomic Drop being a finish.

Bret really shouldn't be talking about this or laying blame, especially when Owen was responsible for the botch that broke Austin's neck, this is not that situation, this is a "one of those things" accident, whereas Owen had a real block as he'd been told 3 times by Austin it was to be a tombstone and he sat out. Bret REALLY shouldn't be calling anyone on that...and yeah I know Owen is gone yadah yadah yadah, but it happened and he was to blame so it's a little rich for Bret to be placing any blame on Joe.

 

[Jeff Deliverer of Mail]

They should ban wrestlers going off of the top rope, or throwing wrestlers over the top rope .... or using a powerbomb. All things WCW did at one time that made wrestling stupid as hell and it didn't last. WWE already bans the piledriver, hitting opponents in the head with objects / chairs...whatnot , choking with wires, cables ... blading themselves , and I'm sure there's a few more. Can't start banning moves just because it was done wrong.

 

[Alastor]

Any move has a risk. The muscle buster doesn't seem riskier than any other suplexes that involve the guy taking the move being off his feet for a period of time.

I think it was just one of those things that happen. Not sure if Joe was reckless but the move itself seem to be similar to any other suplex.

 

[Mustang Sally]

Seems to me the difference between the Muscle Buster and all other suplexes is that the opponent in Joe's hold doesn't get a chance to straighten his neck before impact with the mat. In the match shown, the opponent's chin is practically touching his chest and Joe's arm prevents the guy's head from making contact with the mat at the same as his back, causing additional stress to the neck.

I have no idea how many times Samoa Joe has used this finisher in the past, but if he's broken someone's neck with it, he should stop, imo.

 

[Seosa]

Bret should fuck off with scaremongering like this.

 

[Navi]

Bret really shouldn't be talking about this or laying blame, especially when Owen was responsible for the botch that broke Austin's neck, this is not that situation, this is a "one of those things" accident, whereas Owen had a real block as he'd been told 3 times by Austin it was to be a tombstone and he sat out. Bret REALLY shouldn't be calling anyone on that...and yeah I know Owen is gone yadah yadah yadah, but it happened and he was to blame so it's a little rich for Bret to be placing any blame on Joe.

Too be fair to Bret Hart he did make a comment on his brother breaking Austin's neck. This is what he said. It's taken from the same SI article.

In terms of accountability, Hart recalled the incident between Steve Austin and Owen Hart at SummerSlam 1997.

“When Owen dropped Steve Austin on his head, Owen was totally negligent,” said Hart. “He was wrong to do that move to Steve the way he did and he was wrong to not believe Steve that he was hurt. Owen was skeptical about Steve’s injury, and I told Owen that Steve was in a pretty dangerous spot. I know that wrestling is a tough job, and I know Samoa Joe is a good guy and was probably just trying too hard that day, but you never want to injure one wrestler or stop someone from feeding their family.”

To be honest I didn't expect anything different from Hart. This is basically a family member that got hurt, and it's too be expected his opinion would be the way it is.

 

[Prince Vee]

Samoa Joe has been using Muscle Buster for years. If it were such a dangerous move many wrestling promotions would've banned it already. He's been using it over the years in TNA so I don't think Tyson Kidd's injury is because of the Muscle Buster.

I really feel sorry for Tyson, being such a talented in ring performer, who never had gotten a chance to shine and right when he was on his prime, got injured. Its shame. And apparently there's no backstage heat on Joe which can give a clear view that Joe isn't the major responsibility for Tyson situation.

Cheers!!

 

[laodaron]

Man, other promotions still allow piledrivers from a scaffold through plate glass because fans want to see a Deathmatch. Saying what other promotions allow or disallow is disingenuous.

 

[Creepy Old Man]

Bret "Half Empty" Hart being his usual pessimistic self. He sure is miserable for a guy who reached the top of his profession and made millions in the process.

Is Canada really that depressing?

 

[wrestler36]

Bret "Half Empty" Hart being his usual pessimistic self. He sure is miserable for a guy who reached the top of his profession and made millions in the process.

Is Canada really that depressing?

These quotes are just the negative side of the article. He says a lot of positive things about Rollins, Reigns and the tag team division. He even praises Vince for the ending of Wrestlemania

 

[LBGetBack]

So this quickly became the post where a bunch of wrestling fans pretend they know more about what's safe or unsafe to do in a wrestling ring than Bret Freakin Hart.

Awesome.

Don't ever change, IWC. Don't ever change.

 

[FightOwensFight]

So this quickly became the post where a bunch of wrestling fans pretend they know more about what's safe or unsafe to do in a wrestling ring than Bret Freakin Hart.

Awesome.

Don't ever change, IWC. Don't ever change.

Of course Brett knows more about what is safe than a wrestling fan. The issue is that this injury, as unfortunate as it is, flies in the face of years of doing the move without any incidents, at least none that I am aware of. If you've done something for years and have one accident, does that mean all the times it was done without issue were a fluke?

Of course, it is a no-win situation. Both sides of the argument (ban/don't ban) have legitimate arguments. On the don't ban side you have my argument above. It has been done countless times with no injuries. This was a fluke. On the ban side, you have versions of what Mustang Sally said, that if it is true that Kidd has a broken neck and it is the result of the Muscle Buster, then one broken neck is one too many and why risk it happening again?

 

[Woodstuff]

So this quickly became the post where a bunch of wrestling fans pretend they know more about what's safe or unsafe to do in a wrestling ring than Bret Freakin Hart.

Awesome.

Don't ever change, IWC. Don't ever change.

Haha I was thinking the same thing. Neck beard knowledge is more valuable than that of an actual professional, duh.

As far as the Muscle Buster goes, no matter how you try to justify it, if the move broke Tyson's neck, Joe should suck it up and change his finish (IMO). Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it, ect.

 

[LBGetBack]

And to those who get off on insulting Hart for being "bitter"....

He had his whole life trajectory changed by one reckless kick. He can't take a back bump or head shot of any kind. He walks with a limp. He looks rough. His quality of life has been significantly worse for 15 years because of one kick. Can you blame him for bringing up that kick? Can you really blame him for being touchy about major injuries caused by recklessness? Especially when he himself was renowned for being such a safe wrestler to work with?

He also lost out on a lot of money. He was 42 and that was it for him. You see Undertaker still going with his WM mystique. Flair got a major send off storyline. Shawn Michaels got a whole second career. Rock still can show up for a match and major payday.

Bret got none of that. Think of what he could've done as a part timer in WWE after he and Vince buried the hatchet, if he could've actually worked? He's got a right to have an opinion here, and he's got a right to be a little touchy on the subject.

 

[World Class Mark]

Ya, I don't get the whole "Bret is bitter" undercurrent when a lot of people make reference to the Hitman.

His "problem," as it relates to the way he's perceived, is that he's an honest guy. You ask him a question, he bluntly answers it, and then someone reprints it and he's taken out of context or comes across as bitter.

But, the guy buried the hatchet with Vince and HBK, and I always see in his interviews that he tries to say something positive after he says something that might be perceived as negative. At least the guy is trying. He certainly has a right to be bitter over how his career ended -- wouldn't you? But he's moved on with his life rather nicely, I think.

Compared to other retired people, at least Bret still watches the product and is still passionate enough to make comments about it -- to me that shows he's still a fan. Hell, some guys retire and then come back and they don't have a clue who any of the wrestlers are on the current roster.





.

 

[John McCass]

The other day, I was walking and somehow I suffered a strain in my leg. So, am I supposed to stop walking now?

As far as the muscle buster statement goes, Wrestling is a very delicate sport (of entertainment). It requires both sides on negotiation to be done properly. It could be a fault from either. As I've not seen it I can't say it was Samoa Joe's or either Kidd's. But, I must say it was someone's fault. Sometimes, even the surroundings intricate thing. It can be neither guy's fault and something related to the turnbuckle. But, then again, I can't judge things on my own if I don't know how the said things go.

And for banning the move, I'd say 'no' just like the others. Sally made a good point too sayin' he should stop using the move as to avoid further risks. But, that's not the way. Muscle Buster is something much related to Joe. When you think of that move, Joe would pop up your mind. Almost all indy guys had to change their repertoire once they come into the big league. Mistakes happen, sometimes even a punch makes a big difference and sometimes even a piledriver can't do much harm.

 

[OYDK]

Samoa Joe has used the Muscle Buster for YEARS without once injuring another wrestler. The reports call it a freak accident and something that could not have been avoided so why should Joe have to get rid of his finish? Because somebody got hurt? Come on people, this is pro-wrestling. Droz was paralyzed in a ladder match so does that mean WWE should get rid of all ladders? The Tombstone nearly paralyzed Hogan so should that move be outlawed?

I'm just saying, let's not OVERreact here... somebody got seriously injured which sucks, but let's not lay all the blame on Joe and the move. He's been using it in TNA for years without incident.

 

[KBeef]

Samoa Joe has used the Muscle Buster for YEARS without once injuring another wrestler. The reports call it a freak accident and something that could not have been avoided so why should Joe have to get rid of his finish? Because somebody got hurt? Come on people, this is pro-wrestling. Droz was paralyzed in a ladder match so does that mean WWE should get rid of all ladders? The Tombstone nearly paralyzed Hogan so should that move be outlawed?

I'm just saying, let's not OVERreact here... somebody got seriously injured which sucks, but let's not lay all the blame on Joe and the move. He's been using it in TNA for years without incident.

I don't normally comment, but when I see glaring inaccuracies I need to.
Droz was not injured in a ladder match, it was a botched running powerbomb during a smackdown taping, Hogan was never almost paralyzed by a tombstone that is just a myth / backstage politics story.

 

[Wald]

Couldn't tell if you the Muscle Buster is a dangerous move but Bret was known as being one of the safest workers you could step in the ring with so if he thinks it is more dangerous than regular suplexes I'd be inclined to believe him. Of course you have to remember that a family member of his has just been seriously injured by it, and that Bret's own career was ended because of recklessness too, so obviously he will think it should be banned.

Actually now that I write it down I can see Bret's point for it being banned. If you're a guy who uses a move like that and you seriously injure another wrestler with it you should probably retire it. You can't ever say that you're always 100% in control of what happens with it, like say the Undertaker with his Tombstone (who I don't think ever seriously injured a wrestler with it). There are thousands of moves out there you can use to for your finisher, if you've broken a guy's neck with your current one you probably should pick something else.

 

[Mr.Maikeru_Sawyer]

NOT THAT ANY OF THE FOLLOWING IS TRUE BUT...
I would not be the least bit surprised to learn in the future that Tyson was already injured BEFORE the match and is just blaming the injury on Joe(that TNA Guy) so as to not get heat on one of his(Tyson's) close buddies from a different match

 

[Softcore Holly]

NOT THAT ANY OF THE FOLLOWING IS TRUE BUT...
I would not be the least bit surprised to learn in the future that Tyson was already injured BEFORE the match and is just blaming the injury on Joe(that TNA Guy) so as to not get heat on one of his(Tyson's) close buddies from a different match

I have no idea how you would come to that conclusion. For one thing that would involve hiding a serious neck injury from doctors and continue to go to work in the ring, which is not only extremely stupid but literally life-threatening. Next he has no control on who he would face(I doubt he has the pull) so for he knows he was going face that close buddy that he's apparently protecting twice in a row. Or maybe a 2nd close buddy, or 3rd. From what we've heard of Kidd he's a likable guy backstage so who knows how many friends he could've faced. Or would he hide the injury past that match too until he faced someone he could "safely" put the blame on?

And then you have to think what he's protecting that buddy from. Everyone gets injured in this business, everyone knows that. Ryback recently got Rusev on the shelf, apparently that's not enough heat to get a IC title around his waist.

So yeah I SERIOUSLY doubt we'll ever hear your theory confirmed as true, mainly because it involves someone putting his life on the line for pretty much nothing in an incredibly foolish plan that he would have no control over.

 

[closet_fan]

I have to wonder how much of this isn't about Samoa Joe's move, but the fact that it was done on a family member of Hart's. Technically not a blood relative, but Kidd grew up with the Hart's, was a "Dungeon" graduate and is marrying into the family.

I doubt Hart would be as outspoken, if at all, if this was someone else with a neck injury.

 

[chuckmdubya]

Reading this makes me wonder.. Does Bret Hart have anything good to say about anyone he did not train or isn't related too? Seems every once in a while we see another negative comment by Brett Hart. I hate that every time I do a post about him, it has to be negative, but nearly everything he says I would disagree with, and its a shame because I've always really liked him.

But the move should stay, so should the curbstomp, and even the pile driver. Pressure from the politically correct and injury lawyers has already damaged the product drastically and I'm tired of seeing it go. These guys don't sign up and get paid millions to write essays, they get paid to put on a show and so we can watch stuff that we're all too smart to try ourselves. The more PC and lawsuit proof it gets, the more and more it goes down the tube.

 

[wrestler36]

Reading this makes me wonder.. Does Bret Hart have anything good to say about anyone he did not train or isn't related too? Seems every once in a while we see another negative comment by Brett Hart. I hate that every time I do a post about him, it has to be negative, but nearly everything he says I would disagree with, and its a shame because I've always really liked him.

Read the whole article. He has some great things to say about Rollins, Reigns and even Vince McMahon for the planning of Wrestlemania. For every negative, he also gives several positives.