Bill Maher

Discussion in 'The WrestleZone Symposium' started by Xemmy, Jun 5, 2017.

  1. Xemmy

    Xemmy of the Le'beau family

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    So, Bill Maher called himself a "house n***a" in an impromptu joke when offered to work in the fields in Nebraska by Senator Benjamin E. Sasse on last Friday's Real Time on HBO. There's some hellacious backlash with people calling for the show to be canceled. Several people have defended him. He's already apologized. And there hasn't been much beyond that. Lot's of people are saying of course he's racist, because he's critical of Islam, and being edgy, Maher's offended a lot of people over the years. If he does get canceled over a comment, it wouldn't be the first time.

    Larry King's defended him. Chance the Rapper is very cross for Bill using his word and the whole thing's a mess. Lots of people are comparing it to the Kathy Griffen thing.

    What do you guys think? Should he be canceled? Was the apology enough? Should he have had to apologize in the first place?
     
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  2. Jack-Hammer

    Jack-Hammer YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!!!!
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    Bill Maher is someone who defies the categorization that news organizations and political pundits like to assign to people. He's someone with a brain and thinks for himself instead of strictly siding 100% with liberal or conservative politics. For instance, he supports legalizing weed, gambling and prostitution while also being a supporter of the death penalty and has what'd be viewed as a conservative view of Islam. He owns guns for protection, but it in support of stricter gun laws. As a person, Maher gets on my nerves because he's such a sarcastic, condescending prick who practically oozes arrogance. Whenever someone says something along the lines of an elitist liberal, Maher is usually the first guy I think of.

    As for the whole N word controversy surrounding him, I don't believe Maher is racist in the sense that he devalues people of color; he's said in the past that he's found himself giving into profiling when it comes to Muslims and doesn't realize it until he's already doing it. He's said he isn't proud of it but he feels it's a logical, natural reaction and I respect him saying it because it's something that we've all probably done at one time or another. It's not right, but we're not perfect. If you ask yourself if you've ever caught yourself looking at someone of Middle Eastern descent and thought "I wonder...could this person be an extremist?", I think most of us would find we have. It doesn't mean that you're racist, it just acknowledges that Western Civilization is under attack by people who look a certain way with certain beliefs, not all of them of course, but some. It's not politically correct to say, but it's correct all the same.

    With that being said, I find myself having little sympathy for Maher because he should've known better. He's a smart man, he's plugged into all things politics on a level most of us aren't and knows how polarizing the N word is. A 61 year old white man, especially one as sarcastic and full of himself as Maher is, should avoid words like the N word because it's just gonna start some shit and land him in hot water. Yes, I know that some feel the word is fine if it's used as some sort of joke and some blacks have no real issue with it if close white friends use it but that's a perspective that gets repeatedly shot down time after time whenever something like this happens.

    As to whether he should have his show canceled, I think it probably should happen because it'll be perceived by the right wingers as an example of liberal media bias if it's not. After all, if Sean Hannity or Bill O'Reilly used the N word, you'd have every liberal organization out there screaming for them to be crucified.
     
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  3. SSJPhenom

    SSJPhenom The Phenom of WZ

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    Look, I'm half black and have a problem with people using the N word as a racial slur or in a hateful way. Well, not that I have a problem when they use it, more that I pity them when they use it. I'm not going to make no bones about it; I like Bill Maher. I find his programs and stand ups to be funny and most of the time very accurate to what I'm thinking or feeling myself.

    Having said that, he shouldn't have used the N word. As Jack-Hammer said, he's a 61 year old white man first and second he's involved enough in politics to have known better. It was definitely a poor judgement call to say the least. However, wasn't he referring to himself when he said the word? He didn't say 'my *****' or 'that ****** over there'. He said; "I'm a house *****". Black people actually call other black people house *****s when they feel that they either try to act white or try to impress white people. It's actually an insult when used to describe a black person. The reason being because historically, the house ***** on a plantation was the one that the master liked the most or the one that the master felt he could trust the most. They were the ones that said, "Yessir boss". For a quick frame of reference, picture Samuel L. Jackson's character in Django Unchained. So should he have said it, no. Do I, being of African American (I hate using that term, I'm not African) decent have a problem with him saying it as he did? Absolutely not and I really don't see the big deal about it other than he's a celebrity, a liberal, and people need something to bitch about.
     
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  4. It's Damn Real!

    It's Damn Real! The undisputed, undefeated TNA &

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    1. It was a joke.
    2. It was funny.
    3. Given the context it was used, the political nature of the man delivering it, and the subject matter, see point one and two.

    This politics of destruction we're living under is the real crime here. You know what a rational, logical response to someone saying something you disagree should be? You stop listening to them. Instead, we now live in a country that takes up the cross for non-existent victims to demand the heads of the "oppressors". What a bunch of virtue signaling *****.

    Worse yet, the Left, in this case, eats its own champion, lashing out of Maher, who has a twenty-plus year history of fighting on their behalf, often for actual victims, against racism and racists? It's called perspective, people. Have some.
     
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  5. enviousdominous

    enviousdominous Behold my diction

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    Captain Obvious: Comedy is a subjective concept!

    My take on Bill Maher: He's a mildly talented entertainer who found his niche during the tumultuous political atmosphere of 1993. It was a lucky break for him to start an alternative talk show where he could let "experts" go at each other's throats and thereby set him up to shut them down in a witty manner.

    I'd probably take Bill Maher more seriously if I hadn't seen Religulous. As an Athiest, I don't really like it when an overzealous shit stain like Bill Maher lazily slaps together a collection of debunked theories in what he claimed was an attempt to discredit religion but was obviously more of an attempt at making them look silly in order to cope with his socially crippling inferiority complex. Having watched Religulous, I'm fully convinced that Bill Maher is a fucking moron.

    Now then, Bill is yet another mildly famous White guy who thought that he was too cool to face consequences for dropping the n-word. Fucking lovely. His five hundred pound ego was too much for his half ounce of common sense to override. I'm not a mind-reader, but I'm pretty sure that Bill expected every Black person who heard him to react with thunderous applause because he said it like the Fonz.

    Yeah, Bill fucked up. He made a crack that hearkened to a persona where he'd enforce the standards of a plantation owner which would often include dealing out harsh punishments for breathing, and then recommended that the crowd reflect on his comments as a joke. Apparently Bill thought that the crowd either didn't get the joke, or that they were just being a bunch of prudes for not rewarding a crack about slavery containing the most offensive slur a White person could use in regard to a Black person.

    Should he be cancelled? Yes, I don't think he should be able to have a public platform after proving that he could be so socially irresponsible. Free speech is one thing, but if your audience wants you gone then there's not much a talk show host can say to argue with that. He apologized, saying:

    "Friday nights are always my worst night of sleep because I'm up reflecting on the things I should or shouldn't have said on my live show. Last night was a particularly long night as I regret the word I used in the banter of a live moment. The word was offensive, and I regret saying it and am very sorry."

    Now, I fucking hate wordy apologies from condescending pricks. He mentions that his life is so busy and that his show is live, thus implying that he fucked up but that we're assholes for not taking into consideration that he's only a little perfect. That particular night he does indeed regret, because during some "banter" he used an offensive word and that we should again take into considering that his show is live and that fucking idiots like us would have probably dropped the word fifty times without thinking about it if we were in his shoes. He's very sorry for using that offensive word, but encouraging the audience to laugh at it immediately after using it was just one of those things we should forget ever happened. Just saying; how someone reacts immediately after doing something jacked up says a lot about whether or not they truly feel bad for what they did.

    I relate this incident to Kathy's "Hey everyone, look at me!" moment because comedians, regardless of political affiliation, are apparently trying to one-up each other in terms of who can say or do the most fucked up bullshit and not face any repercussions for it. When you really get to know who the real person is behind the comic persona, you learn that these people are intensely insecure pieces of shit who lack empathy until their reputation as a human being is at risk.
     
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  6. Xemmy

    Xemmy of the Le'beau family

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    This is a lot to try and argue against. So I'm just going to summarize a response rather than make an out and out argument, and I ask your forgiveness ahead of time. But I think it's fair to point out that you didn't like Bill Maher to begin with. Maher's audience doesn't want him gone. There are a few mind you. But plenty of black people are giving him a pass and I doubt his ratings are going to take any kind of hit. Most of the people calling for him to be canceled already hate him. He has lost a guest and a small portion of his audience are probably flying the coop or they're just mad. Not everyone's cool with it, and I'm not in any real position to speak for the black community. But if you're already a Bill Maher fan, chances are you're used to him trying to be outrageous. Unllike Kathy, this was a joke that left his mouth unplanned. He wasn't trying to push an envelope. He was saying something he actually thought was funny. I did too. A lot of people laughed after they got over the shock of a white dude saying it. Bill waved off his fans because every week for the last 2 years he gets that reaction to any perceived offensive joke. Even jokes that are supporting a cause or making fun of someone who did something awful and are relatively tame with context. I honestly think Maher would have gotten away with this had he said it 4 years ago. Whether it's right or wrong isn't my place to say. But the reaction of black community is mixed and occasionally a bit hypocritical. My favorite tweet was a black guy saying that he always knew Maher was just a shifty Jew.

    I don't know what your problem is with Religious. Back when it was made it was an eye opener for a lot of people. Especially living in the South where there is literally a church every few blocks. Pretty much everyone in the film deserved the shame they got.
     
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  7. JGlass

    JGlass Unregistered User

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    1. Holocaust jokes are jokes. Doesn't make them okay.
    2. It really wasn't. What's funny about a white guy comparing himself to someone held in servitude against their will?
    3. It doesn't matter if you're liberal or conservative or anything in between: he has no right to make jokes about something he nor anyone in his family has ever experienced.

    That said, I think his apology sufficed. I think he knows he was in the wrong and he made that joke off the cuff thinking he could get away with it exactly because of his personal politics. I'm sure that even in his 27th season of Real Time (or whatever, it seems like it's been on that long), he feels a lot of pressure to be funny, and this time he came up short. He apologized, recognizes that he was wrong, and now it's time to move on. I don't think any real harm was done, so why drag this out to be something more than it is?
     
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  8. It's Damn Real!

    It's Damn Real! The undisputed, undefeated TNA &

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    1. Yes it does. Your personal tastes on them tell us only how you feel about their use. Not about their objective value as comedy.
    2. Yes it was. Comedy is subjective. See point one.
    3. He has every right to make jokes about anything he wants. Direct experience about the target or nature of a joke is not a prerequisite. Sometimes it's helpful, depending on the context in question, but it's not required.

    But I do agree that this was a one-off mistake. I wouldn't have made the joke, but every comedian crosses the line now and then. They have to, or they aren't very good at their jobs. That's the job of comedy. It derives from tragedy in the classical sense, which is why they are inextricable for that very reason.
     
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  9. JGlass

    JGlass Unregistered User

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    I should have known better than to debate quality with a diehard TNA fan :lmao::lmao:.

    I suppose you're right. There will always be people who will laugh at something completely tasteless, and Bill Maher's joke in this case was just that: tasteless. It's not funny for a white guy to joke about being a slave. It would be like Queen Elizabeth making a joke about living in destitute poverty, or Louis CK knowing what it's like to be a black person in South Africa under Apartheid. There's just certain things you shouldn't joke about because it's completely classless, and this was one of them.
     
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  10. George Steele's Barber

    George Steele's Barber Advertise Here $9.95/month

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    Part of me thinks he did it intentionally to get some heat off his faux POTUSicide buddy. It kind of worked if that was the intent.

    I'm not sure if it was genuinely funny. I heard about the controversy before I heard the one liner. It was certainly clever, I wish I was that fast on my feet.

    I think the important thing here is that Trump needs to renegotiate the deal with black people over the word. I'm not tired of all the winning he's been doing lately, he should follow up all the extra degrees he won the US by making an offer to black people to allow everyone else to use the word in an unagressive context. Maybe he can threaten to take away some of the Kardashian/Jenners if black people don't come to the table to discuss this crucial topic. Maybe he can throw in Kendall or the other one who is divorced from that dude (nah, that won't help). With Linda's influence maybe he can make Apollo Crews champion.

    I just want to sing along with the rap songs of my generation.

    In conclusion, Bill Maher and the rest of the world are just fine. Except for the whole extra water Trump won us from the Artic.
     
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  11. It's Damn Real!

    It's Damn Real! The undisputed, undefeated TNA &

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    So humor is relegated to class, now? One must have to meet certain cultural requirements to be allowed to joke about topics? I suppose I need to have actually been a woman to joke about how much they like to shop? Better tell Dave Chapelle to apologize for all those bits impersonating and poking fun at white people. He's never been a white man before.

    See my first post again. The proper, reasonable response to hearing something you don't like is not to listen to it.

    What you call classless I call hilarious. You know who was the fucking King of this? Richard Pryor. And George Carlin.

    Also, shouldn't you have been a die hard TNA fan to make fun of one? Stop appropriating my company!
     
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  12. enviousdominous

    enviousdominous Behold my diction

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    Fair enough, pardon me while I do the same thing.

    Keep in mind that I'm not trying to speak on behalf of Black people, if every Black person gave Bill a pass for what he said then that really wouldn't matter to me. I condemn the use of that word on my own terms for my own reasons. To me; Bill has always been an arrogant dipshit and it's through that arrogance that he presents racism as poignant comedy, and anyone who would reward what he said with laughter has a really fucked up sense of humor.

    I don't think that what he did was at all different from what Kathy did in terms of what the intention was. It doesn't matter what color you are, people of every creed like to occasionally express themselves in ways that test their social credibility. Kathy Griffin took a chance on becoming a hero unto people who hate the President, and Bill Maher took a chance on turning an innocent statement by Sen. Ben Sasse into a slavery reference that included the n-word. They're both fuckups, and they both apologized in their own ass ways for being fuckups. If you still like him for what he said, then he apologized on your behalf as well.

    I'm pretty sure that Bill waved off crowd members who reacted with disgust because he thought he was cool enough to be able to do so. Egomaniacs will be egomaniacs. And no; Bill would not have gotten away with this four years ago, while the nation was still reeling from Trayvon Martin's death.

    Speaking of subjects that aren't your place to judge...

    ...............................................yeah, I'll be sure to come find you when I want to know how the Black community is doing.

    You know what buddy? You're smart, most people on this forum are smart, that's why I come here. Unlike Bill Maher, I like to test my ideas with smart people and thereby not have to sift through so much bullshit in my attempt to better myself. Bill likes to take a page out of Dr. Phil's playbook and ridicule people who are obviously without shame in regard to their hypocrisy, which can be entertaining but does nothing to promote a positive change toward the oppression of others based on religious principles.

    On top of chastising people who don't deserve anyone's consideration, Bill pushed the idea that Jesus and Horus had identical histories. That's complete bullshit, and any idiot can confirm that. I'm getting way off track here, but I've never seen anything good come from Bill Maher's influence.
     
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  13. JGlass

    JGlass Unregistered User

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    I don't know if you're being intentionally obtuse or just missing the point.

    Comparing jokes about women loving shopping or white people being cavalier when being pulled over by police to people being held in slavery, tortured and murdered for fun is like comparing apples to getting kicked in the balls by an apple picker.

    Joking about things that are painful for a large segment of the population when you are not part of that group is in bad taste. Even if you are in that group, it can be in bad taste, which is why you don't see many Jewish comics (and let's face it, there's like a billion of them) joking about the holocaust, and you really don't see too many black comedians joking about slavery either. So when Bill Maher makes a joke about being a slave, it's just in bad taste, not to mention complete nonsense.

    You and I are on the same page here. I don't watch Bill Maher because, as I think Jack-Hammer pointed out, I find him to be unbearably arrogant, but I won't begrudge anyone deciding to return to watching the program or not based on this questionable joke and subsequent apology.

    Like I said, you'll always find someone who will laugh at something completely classless. It's why World Star Hip Hop is such a cultural phenomenon.

    And you'd be hard pressed to find a bigger Carlin fan than me. Well, that's probably not true, but he is my favorite standup of all time, but I can't think of a single joke of his that was as classless as Bill Maher calling himself a, "House ******."

    Nah, it's okay to make fun of TNA fans because you made the choice to support that stuff. Laughing at the poor life decisions of others might not be the most classy thing to do, but it's more socially acceptable than a white man likening himself to a house slave because he doesn't like to do manual labor.
     
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  14. It's Damn Real!

    It's Damn Real! The undisputed, undefeated TNA &

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    Mike Epps, Leslie Jones, Byron Bowers, and others have all used slavery as the subject matter of their jokes. Chapelle had numerous skits on his Comedy Central show using it as comedic prose. I’m not going to sit here and link them all to prove a point. You can do your own leg work there.

    The line between hilarity and offense is entirely subjective, because it’s different for everybody. I am close friends with numerous stand up comedians, one of which is black and is actually finding some success. If I asked them all where their lines are, I guarantee you none would agree. But they’d all agree that intent matters, and if the joke is funny, that’s all that matters.

    This is why comics went to bat for Daniel Tosh over his rape joke in response to a heckler, for example, or why Louis CK, who is revered in the industry, is routinely defended by his peers when he, too, “crosses the line”.

    You missed the point of the joke if you think he was actually calling himself a house ******. It was a retort to the invitation from Sasse to "work his fields".

    As to Carlin, he's done jokes on mass murder/death (post-9/11), rape, and a slew of other "offensive" categories. As a self-described fan, you know this. I don't need to explain to you how he made his name household. But as a self-described "big" fan, I'd hope you'd realize that pushing and routinely crossing "the line" was his calling card.

    Well played. I enjoyed this joke, even though it's offensive to me. :D
     
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  15. Mighty NorCal

    Mighty NorCal SHALL WE BEGIN?

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    Meh, its live television, people fuck up. He acknowledged that it was wrong, and intends not to make that mistake again.

    If playing fast and loose with the word becomes a habit, then HBO should move on. Not for one ad-libbed joke made in poor taste.
     
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  16. George Steele's Barber

    George Steele's Barber Advertise Here $9.95/month

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    I saw a news story today that Caitlyn Jenner got a puppy. JGlass - I am not a transexual or a canine. I own a dog, watched the Price is Right, and had a vasectomy. Should I spend some time thinking up a joke about this news story or would that be crossing a line?
     
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  17. Jack-Hammer

    Jack-Hammer YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!!!!
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    For me personally, it wasn't offensive and I wouldn't give it a second thought. I'm just realistic about the fact that the word in and of itself, when said by a white person, is always gonna piss off a whole lotta black folks and make a whole lotta white folks overreact with their own outrage or they'll be called racists. I'm also realistic about the fact that there's probably always, or at the very least during our lifetimes, gonna be a double standard when it comes to using race as part of a joke; it seems perfectly okay whenever someone of color uses a racial component in a joke, especially if it's to do with white people, but you'd think the sky was falling if a white man does it. Dave Chappelle dressing up as and putting make up on his face to make himself look like a white news anchor? He's a genius in the eyes of the black community. If Daniel Tosh dressed like and had his face made up to look like a Crip? The black community would want him crucified with Al Sharpton & Jesse Jackson providing the hammer and nails. It sucks and is something that's a personal pet peeve of mine, but I also know that there's nothing that can be done about it.
     
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  18. Nate DaMac

    Nate DaMac Fuck erbody but me

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    George Carlin had a joke where he literally called Richard Pryor a ******. In context it isn't nearly as bad as it sounds but it appears that we're totally ignoring context here anyway so let's go dig him up and tar and feather his skeleton.

    Classless and tasteless are words that mean absolutely nothing to me. Funny is funny. Hack is hack. These days Maher falls somewhere in the middle.
     
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  19. Navi

    Navi With the safety off!!

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    Bill Maher and controversy go hand in hand and always will. I remember back when he made some outrageous statements after 9/11 about American soldiers being cowards, simply because they bombed their targets while sitting in planes. Statements like that and other's got his show cancelled on the Comedy Network and he soon resurfaced on HBO.

    Then came the tirade's about Islam and the incest jokes about Ivanka and Donald Trump. Is anyone surprised to hear he is in the news again using a racial slur. I'm stunned that it hasn't happened sooner. Although didn't he once call Muslims "raghead's'. Yea Bill Maher always walks the line and occasionally falls off. He's a straight shooter who obviously doesn't give a rats ass who cares, he has a soapbox and he uses it.

    Was he right, no, but again nothing will come of this, and next year we with have another thread with another Bill Maher controversy.
     
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  20. It's Damn Real!

    It's Damn Real! The undisputed, undefeated TNA &

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    You've got this a little fuzzy. He said that the 9/11 hijackers were not cowards because they killed themselves to achieve their goal, and that the U.S. were, because they fire cruise missiles from 2,000 miles away. He was also cancelled by ABC, not, what I presume you are confusing with Comedy Central.

    No, I'm not surprised to hear that he's in the news, nor am I surprised that there's an audience outraged by what he has to say. This is what much of U.S. politics are these days — outrage culture. We live to be offended, as if being offended is in and of itself an argument. It isn't. It's a guttural reaction that too many think is deserving of respect.

    Maher is a political comedian and television host. It's his job to walk that tightrope. If he didn't, he'd be cancelled for banality, like Piers Morgan was (among other reasons).

    And that's not necessarily a bad thing. I believe that his show helps to thrust conversations we need to be having into the public forum because he's one of a small group of media voices who are brave enough to broach them in the first place. I applaud him, for example, for his willingness to harshly criticize Islam. Though he was mostly a passenger during it, the confrontation between Sam Harris and Ben Affleck on his program a few years ago really helped to shine a light on how dishonestly the Left, largely, react to criticisms of the religion and the culture it prescribes. The string of Left-leaning articles that followed it calling Harris and Maher racists, bigots, and Islamaphobes actually stirred enough of a backlash from intellectuals who care about intellectual honesty that it spread enough runway for Dave Rubin, another comic turned host, to launch his now very popular "Rubin Report" YouTube series. Even though that was clearly not their intention.

    Maher may be smarmy and a bit of a cunt, but neither are qualities worth dismissing the value of his program IMO. Even if they make it a bit difficult to sit through some nights.
     
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