Really? I've always thought it was pretty easy to understand. If something in the Bible supports your position, then it's meant to be taken literally, if something opposes it, then it is either obsolete or not to be taken literally.
Too cynical?
Ba-Bomb is a fucking moron. Prove it here.
- Thread starter Serious Mozzarella
- Start date
Really? I've always thought it was pretty easy to understand. If something in the Bible supports your position, then it's meant to be taken literally, if something opposes it, then it is either obsolete or not to be taken literally.
Too cynical?
If there is one thing I usually credit Christians with it's that they're usually pretty good at coming up with some sort of explanation - regardless of how satisfying it is. I'm curious if the explanation in this case is simply, "Jesus sometimes says it's not obsolete, and then sometimes seems to suggest it is - so we just assume he meant the latter." If that's the case so be it, but I'd be interested in knowing for sure.
Via Armbar
Has a pretty good dick.
There's moments I don't subscribe to the Slyfox hype...and then you win me back <3
''THE BIBLE SAYS THIS, IT'S IN THE BIBLE!'' - bible thumper
''Well no, obvious THAT part isn't meant to be taken literally, just the parts that don't sound ridiculous.'' - same guy, one rebuttal later
Serious Mozzarella
Special Victims Unit
But where's the passage in the Bible that suggests the New Testament rendered the Old Testament obsolete? "People just don't follow OT rules anymore," just isn't a valid answer.
Tommy "Two-Times" Mozzarella;3718685 said:
Well, it is. Because they don't. We aren't talking about the Bible being self referential, we're talking about what Christians actually do. Eating pork, working on a Sunday, planting more than one kind of plant in the same field, tattoos and wearing clothes made out of different materials are all forbidden in the Old Testament, but nobody follows that any more.
I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make. You're saying Christians have this opinion, when I'm saying, in my experience they don't. Then your proof for Christians having this opinion is what it says in the Bible. Well fine, but next time someone like Ba-Bomb starts quoting the Bible as empirical evidence, you aren't really in a position to criticise.
Via Armbar
Has a pretty good dick.
You know what would be ideal, is for God himself to tell everyone what is allowed and what isn't. Seemed he hasn't done that in QUITE some time. Ya know, if he wants people to obey and what not.
One Punch Doug Crashin
I AM INVINSIBLE!
Because there's a thing called Free Will that's why.
Via Armbar
Has a pretty good dick.
Yeah...free will would be being told right from wrong and then choosing to do one or the other. Not completely being in the dark and having only old ass fucking references as a guide. People say ''It's alright, it's outdated/New Testament renders the Old Testament obsolete'' but are we supposed to follow something that is itself still outdated? Seems to me people are picking and choosing which rules are applicable to them while ignoring the ones that would put them in an unfavorable position with their God.
I still don't understand the concept of ''free will'' when God is supposed to have a plan for everyone correct? Then I'll hear ''Well he does have a plan, a set course and it's up to the individual how they react and deal with it'' but the you get into the circumstances that the FAR less fortunate have and you have to think to yourself what kind of person (God) gives some such shitty lives with no real choices to make in the hopes of improving it? Seems...unfair to me. God does everything for a reason though right? Making some peoples lives as unfortunate and miserable as possible isn't someone I'd worship one way or the other, even if I was positive of his existence.
Serious Mozzarella
Special Victims Unit
You know what else has been proven? Most Christians haven't read the Bible, cover to cover. Most Christians don't understand more about their own religion than non-Christians do. Most Christians willingly cherry-pick convenient rules from the Bible to follow.
If you're telling me that, in YOUR experience, Christians don't believe homosexuality is wrong, then how come Proposition 8 passed in California? How come it's taken this long for even a shit-number of states are even considering gay marriage as a possibility? How come every single Republican Christian leader is anti-homosexuality?
The reason I even took Ba-Bomb seriously is because in my experience, his beliefs mirror the beliefs of Christians. If these same people eat pork, work on Saturday, wear clothing of mixed fabrics, commit adultery, and have pre-marital sex, but find some justification for opposing homosexuality, then I'll sit here all goddamn day long criticizing the religion, because they are taught to follow these rules, using the Bible as a reference.
Slyfox said it best:
Via Armbar
Has a pretty good dick.
Tommy "Two-Times" Mozzarella;3718772 said:
I personally know more non-Christians/Agnostics/Atheists that have fully read The Bible than I know Christians who have. And that's not because of my group of friends consists mostly of Atheists because I have far more Christian friends than Atheist friends.
To be fair, we have a shit ton of idiots here ha. Plus in regards to Southern California there is a huge Catholic population because of the Hispanic population, so the blame for that prop passing doesn't lay soley in the hands of Christians or even the religious community as a whole. They aren't large in numbers but there are Atheists opposed to homosexuality.
One Punch Doug Crashin
I AM INVINSIBLE!
Free Will ultimately gives us the way to change the life that god gave us. that is why Free Will is important. One doesn't have to follow "mans" interpretation of gods will but they will ultimately choose to follow in the "right path". "If there is a will, There is a way".
Nate DaMac
Fuck erbody but me
Where there is a Doug, there is a ***.
One Punch Doug Crashin
I AM INVINSIBLE!
Is it just me, or are Christians simultaneously being based for following the bible too literally and not literally enough?
If there's one thing in the world that annoys me it's affluent white men who go on incessantly about how they are the victims of discrimination... but a close second would have to be militant atheists who insist on trying to use their lack of faith in anything as some kind of intellectual penis extension. Speaking as someone who is essentially an atheist; you people piss me off.
To deal first with the straw man of Proposition 8; it's passage had nothing to do with Christianity. It passed because America has a great deal of homophobia in its culture. It used to have a great deal of racism in its culture too; you going to blame that on the bible?
An very basic look at the world will tell you that there is little correlation between the prevalence of Christianity and intolerance towards homosexuals. Canada has just as strong a Christian demographic as the US and was on of the first nations to legalise same sex unions. The same is true of South Africa or Sweden or almost all the other nations that have accepted same sex unions. Hell; Argentina and Mexico are far more dominated by Christians than even the US.
Similarly; France, the most secular country in the world is no more advanced on the gay rights issue than the US; and incidentally has no shortage of completely secular prejudice.
The notion that Christianity is a cause of prejudice simply does not add up. It's often used as an explanation for prejudice, but so is political conservatism. It's not a case of post hoc ergo propter hoc (see what you did Lee).
This gets to prize for biggest crock of shit in the entire thread. Most Christians understand their own religion considerably better that the typical atheist. What they are not typically as good at is throwing out random quotations that they have cribbed off the internet in order to try and sound informed.
Golly gosh; the Gospels contradict one another regarding the death of Judus. Hell, they can't even get together on the number of times a bloody rooster sounded off. Surely I have now shaken Christianity to the core for all right thinking individuals. Then again; perhaps not. Perhaps being able to pick holes in a collection of assorted manuscripts dating back thousands of years is not actually much of an accomplishment.
What the typical self-important atheist typically forgets is that the text of the bible is not what the bulk of Christianity is actually about; it's not what it's been about since the Renaissance. The Bible is not Chairman Mao's little red book. It is not presented as an infallible instruction manual in how to live your life. It is supposed to be a spiritual guide to help bring man closer to God, and for hundreds of years now the primary message emanating from Christianity has been one of peace, tolerance and love (which for some reason a great many people seem to have a major problem with).
Of course the scripture is reassessed, re-evaluated and reinterpreted to keep in line with modern wisdom; it's from manuscripts that are thousands of years old. If you actually stop and think about most of the outlandish commandments, most of them make perfect sense when examined in context, and their dismissal from contemporary Christianity is similarly logical. Pork and shelfish are the most obvious examples of this.
So yeah, to summarise; there is no demonstrable connection between homophobia and religion. A pedantic analysis of the Bible for the sake of discrediting a faith is a massive waste of time, and lambasting a religion because bigots use it to defend their bigotry makes you exactly as small minded and unpleasant as the people you are attempting to crusade against.
If there's one thing in the world that annoys me it's affluent white men who go on incessantly about how they are the victims of discrimination... but a close second would have to be militant atheists who insist on trying to use their lack of faith in anything as some kind of intellectual penis extension. Speaking as someone who is essentially an atheist; you people piss me off.
To deal first with the straw man of Proposition 8; it's passage had nothing to do with Christianity. It passed because America has a great deal of homophobia in its culture. It used to have a great deal of racism in its culture too; you going to blame that on the bible?
An very basic look at the world will tell you that there is little correlation between the prevalence of Christianity and intolerance towards homosexuals. Canada has just as strong a Christian demographic as the US and was on of the first nations to legalise same sex unions. The same is true of South Africa or Sweden or almost all the other nations that have accepted same sex unions. Hell; Argentina and Mexico are far more dominated by Christians than even the US.
Similarly; France, the most secular country in the world is no more advanced on the gay rights issue than the US; and incidentally has no shortage of completely secular prejudice.
The notion that Christianity is a cause of prejudice simply does not add up. It's often used as an explanation for prejudice, but so is political conservatism. It's not a case of post hoc ergo propter hoc (see what you did Lee).
This gets to prize for biggest crock of shit in the entire thread. Most Christians understand their own religion considerably better that the typical atheist. What they are not typically as good at is throwing out random quotations that they have cribbed off the internet in order to try and sound informed.
Golly gosh; the Gospels contradict one another regarding the death of Judus. Hell, they can't even get together on the number of times a bloody rooster sounded off. Surely I have now shaken Christianity to the core for all right thinking individuals. Then again; perhaps not. Perhaps being able to pick holes in a collection of assorted manuscripts dating back thousands of years is not actually much of an accomplishment.
What the typical self-important atheist typically forgets is that the text of the bible is not what the bulk of Christianity is actually about; it's not what it's been about since the Renaissance. The Bible is not Chairman Mao's little red book. It is not presented as an infallible instruction manual in how to live your life. It is supposed to be a spiritual guide to help bring man closer to God, and for hundreds of years now the primary message emanating from Christianity has been one of peace, tolerance and love (which for some reason a great many people seem to have a major problem with).
Of course the scripture is reassessed, re-evaluated and reinterpreted to keep in line with modern wisdom; it's from manuscripts that are thousands of years old. If you actually stop and think about most of the outlandish commandments, most of them make perfect sense when examined in context, and their dismissal from contemporary Christianity is similarly logical. Pork and shelfish are the most obvious examples of this.
So yeah, to summarise; there is no demonstrable connection between homophobia and religion. A pedantic analysis of the Bible for the sake of discrediting a faith is a massive waste of time, and lambasting a religion because bigots use it to defend their bigotry makes you exactly as small minded and unpleasant as the people you are attempting to crusade against.
Nate DaMac
Fuck erbody but me
Nate DaMac
Fuck erbody but me
... I do.
I just decided to stop being a christian. Why? Because there's this text that reads "love thy neighbor". I cannot do that at this point. See you all in hell, fuckers.
How did it have nothing to do with Christianity or the Bible? The Bible, to a lot of people, is a book that preaches that homosexuality is a sin and an abomination. A lot of Christians voted against homosexual marriage because of their religion. All of them? No. The vast majority of them? Absolutely. How are you going to brush over their contribution to its passing? You do realize that the churches firmly supported the passing of Prop 8 and a lot of Churches urged their members to donate and do whatever they could to convince others.
There is a definite correlation between homophobia and Christianity, it's been well documented. Christians are significantly more homophobic than non-Christians, it's been shown in studies.
And who is saying that Christianity is a cause of prejudice? Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but being Christian is definitely correlated with prejudice against homosexuals.
There are plenty of surveys and studies that show Atheists are more knowledgeable about religion and/or the Bible than are Christians. Whether or not it's actually true is one thing, but you're stating that you do know, that Christians do know more. Well, we don't know for sure, but there's considerable evidence that what you're saying isn't true.
I would say Christianity is mostly about human creation and where/how we fit in. All the information on that comes from the Old and New Testament, so it's perfectly logical to criticize it. You say the primary message is love, peace, and tolerance (HA!) - OK... which comes from the Bible, which we're shitting on, what's the problem?
It being perfectly logical to exclude old scripture has nothing to do with what's being argued here. At the time, I'm sure all of the scriptures made sense and we're a good tool for telling people how to live, but thousands of years later it needs some revising because we're not as cool with slavery and killing people as we used to be - it's perfectly logical to change it.
What's not perfectly logical is to say, this is the word of God, our creator, his word is infallible - oh, except this part... and this part... and this part. Christians have been making exceptions for their words of God for years now, it makes sense that people will call them out on it.
There are clear correlations between homophobia and religion, it's been well-documented, and Christianity isn't above criticism. In my opinion, faith is very influential, it makes perfect sense to criticize it if it's deserving of it, which it most definitely is.
It was easy when that hot senorita lived next door, but now that the fatty that has three teeth and twice that many chins moved in... yeah, I see your point.
The Dragon Saga
Whale in a Teardrop
Ba-Bomb is an idiot. Why need proof when you can just state the truth?
Amen to that! Who told those women they were equal? It clearly says "MEN". Can we finally get rid of that whole 19th Amendment thing? If only people would have read the Declaration, women would still be in the kitchen where they belong, and this thread wouldn't be needed. Two birds, one stone.
This thread wasn't needed anyway.