Antoine Griezmann blackface?

Discussion in 'The WrestleZone Symposium' started by Khalifa, Dec 20, 2017.

  1. Khalifa

    Khalifa Where it at doe?

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    So a few days ago a world famous soccer player posted a picture of himself dressed up as one an NBA/ Harlem Globetrotter star from the 70’s. He looks exactly like coffee black if you ask me haha. Anyways the reason why this has gotten a lot of attention is because he painted his skin brown, which is black facing and the world came down on him. Last year in Australia a kid dressed up as his favorite afl player for free dress day at school. Keep in mind this kid I like 7 so he hasn’t even heard of racism. His favorite player was black so his mum helped him paint his skin black to truly show what they were getting at. Immediately all the people who never doing anything wrong came out and started saying how wrong and racist it was which eventually lead to the player he was dressing up as coming out on social media and saying that awareness needs to be made.

    I have a few questions that I would like opinions on. While this is classed as black facing, he is dressed up as him because he was the soccer players idol growing up, so should it be classed as racist? Is there things that relate to racism but is just like trying to be politically correct and when it is broken down to the core, it’s not racism? Can there be too much political correction in racism and every issue out there?

    Judging by those questions I’m guessing you kind of know where I stand. While it is blackfacing, the only thing Antione has copied from the original blackface theatrical dress up is paint his skin black. He didn’t exaggerate his lips, the teeth etc. He didn’t change anything but his skin colour (oh and obviously the Afro) so to me I don’t understand how it can be viewed as racist. He is dressed up to show he loved the guy!! What more can you do. Now I saw a comment saying “well he could’ve not painted his skin brown and everyone still would’ve known what he was getting at”. That’s not a good argument to me, so what? You dress up like a clown now and everything thinks you’re the joker, doesn’t mean you can’t look exactly like him. It’s crazy how I a compared that but the idea was the point I was getting at.

    Another point I’d like to add is, if I was the dress up as the opposite sex (like what happens now, all the cross dressers), put on more lipstick, did my eyelashes longer than any other lady etc etc, would you call me a sexist or a cross dresser? If you’d call me a sexist then I’m done.

    I’ve also seen comments on why the way I think is the reason why there is still racism because it’s casual racism. Really? Is that true? Because I’ve only ever wanted to be famous (I wanted to make the AFL but a back injury has forced an early retirement for me) to spread awareness about racism and stop it completely. I’ve got an African American uncle and cousin and live with indigenous Australians. While that doesn’t mean jack, it does show that I’m not completely shielded from every race but white people. Heck I used to get bantered at school for “being black”, so I would say I’m the furtherest person from being a racist.

    Would I ever colour myself black? No because I don’t wanna be shot for it plus I just don’t care for it, but I don’t see at all how it’s racist at this point in time. I’m not saying racism doesn’t occur anymore but you have to look at the context of this and say wow his gesture is actually the furtherest thing from racism.

    Edit: was too worried about the post (which I still stuffed anyways haha) and didn’t even see I spelt his name wrong, only one n in it. Just a bit of useless information for you’s.

    Edit 2: obviously I’m not black so my opinion doesn’t even form 0.1% of a valid answer so I would like to see how the black people react to it. I would say African Americans but that would just be racist to the other black skinned people haha. Wait is it racist to say black skinned...
     
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  2. CyberPunk

    CyberPunk The Show himself

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    I usually don't get it. Is it a western thing to be outraged over trivial things. Unless he was specifically trying to make fun of someone's appearance, I see no harm. He was showing his appreciation for a specific personality.

    Is it any different than cosplaying as your favourite comic book character?
     
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  3. Jack-Hammer

    Jack-Hammer YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!!!!
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    Well, in the minds of a hefty, hefty majority of the African American population, there are universes of differences between dressing up as a fictional character with superhuman powers and the universally accepted racial pecker slap that is blackface. One is seen as a harmless indulgence of fantasy while the other is viewed as a harsh reminder of racial inequality that makes up part of American history. So...yeah...yeah there are some pretty significant differences.

    However, I understand what you mean and I understand what this guy was going for. While it's impossible to ever truly know someone's intent without being able to read their minds, it's obvious that he wasn't out to make any sort of racist statement or promote racist views so I think it's important not to outright crucify him for making a bad decision.

    While someone's intent should be given a hefty degree of weight in a situation like this, I also find it difficult to have a lot of sympathy for him because this was just a flat out fucking stupid thing to do. We live in 2017 and we've seen in the last 4 or 5 years a level of racial tensions that, quite possibly, haven't been as high in my lifetime. I mean, think about it; we have a president who has attempted to make excuses for the actions of white supremacist groups, white cops gunning down unarmed black men and not going to prison over it, vigilantes taking it upon themselves to give chase to and/or gun down black men that they racially profile while claiming that they had the right to do so via the "stand your ground" laws, political pundits and politicians stirring up more racial tensions by purposely misstating why some black athletes kneel during the playing of the US's national anthem and so on and so forth. This is something that's going to piss off a shitload of black folks no matter what his intent might've been, that's just simply how it is and it's not like a white person can simply get away with telling them to get over it as it's no big deal without coming off like a condescending prick. Before doing this, he should've taken the time to actually google this as a means to gauge the sort of reaction it might get; that's all he had to do, it would've taken 30 seconds to discover that this isn't something that's going to be viewed as acceptable by the black community. All this information is out there and it's amazingly easy to find.

    Now, that's not to say that there isn't a double standard. After all, everyone thought it hilarious back in the day when Dave Chappelle would dress up as white characters during his skit show but it's not as though "whiteface" has the same stigma attached to it that blackface does. Also, the excuse would be like "well, he was just making a joke" and that'd be fine for him but a man today going blackface while "making a joke" would bring down all kinds of hell raining down upon his head. So, I guess, in the end if your intent is to pay homage to a black athlete or what have you and not promote racist views, then go for it if you want to but don't be surprised when black writers, political pundits, civil rights organizations, social media crusaders, etc. all clamor to put their collective feet up your ass. You can fight against it, you can protest it, you can stand up for yourself, etc. but you're still going to lose in the end and the more you protest or fight against it, the more likely you are to be perceived as being racist so it's not a fight you can win. When you do something that you find out offends millions of people and double down instead of apologizing for it, AKA Taking a Trump, you're gonna come off looking like the bad guy and it won't matter what your original intent might have been.
     
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  4. Kodo Sawaki

    Kodo Sawaki Championship Contender

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    I wonder the same question. I mean, I would see it how offensive it is if he put on black paint and go, for example as that cotton picking character from Bugs Bunny 40s cartoon. But as Harlem Globetrotter which he admires I just cant see how it is racist thing.
     
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  5. Starkist

    Starkist (To Rip) The Heart From Your Hate

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    Everything in this modern cry baby society seems to always be taken way left than what was intended. People are crucified for dressing up as people because it is deemed wrong. How and why people who were not born during the segregation times offended by this means they were taught to be this way. No one born after segregation ended has anything to do with the past but it can never be let go. It is something taught and learned as people have nothing better do to because a white person painted himself Brown because he was dressed up as a person he admired. Where is the foul play for the movie White Chicks? The world is so biased and wrong for not letting shit go that everything someone does is offensive. Well, people are offensive sometimes with harm and most times without harm.

    It seems like humanity will never seem to grow past things like this because maybe it's out of spite but these are small things that people HAVE to LOOK deeply into to find some sort of hidden agenda behind it. There usually not and people then have to force an apology just to shut up ignorant fools. It saddens me stories like this. Why people give a heck about these things is beyond me.
     
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  6. Spidercanrana

    Spidercanrana Should've Reinstated The Fox
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    It's funny how in the same breath we ridicule how offended people today are, and then turn around and give an example of something that we're clearly offended by. Like an unfunny 2004 movie is some defense of blackface. If you're going to say it's no big deal, then stick to it brother.


    I don't speak for the world. Everything I've learned about Aussies as an American I've learned from Crocodile Dundee. Antoine is French so who the fuck knows over there. Whatever is socially acceptable where they're from is probably not going to be the case with people from the US and every other country. Won't sit here and speak for people that's history is unknown to me. But as an American, it's obvious why blackface is chastised. White people donned the paint and played dumbed down caricatures of black people over here. So while it's easy to say it's no big deal when none of us were personally affected by it, it's easy to see why it bothers people. It's a reminder of a past that wasn't kind to people of a different color.

    People don't like being reminded of a history that treated race unequally. Who knew?
     
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  7. A11oftheLights

    A11oftheLights Getting Noticed By Management

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    I was listening to the Guardian football podcast and they had a segment with their spanish correspondent and he said in Spain it's not seen as a big deal and said that their is a different relationship between people of colour as opposed to western society (the UK in particular) but I didnt really understand what he meant by it. The spanish would most definitely had slave labour at some point in history, I imagine their colonisation of south america would have been rampant with it. So it kind of felt to me that he was implying that racism is quite strong in spain

    As for blackface, I dont really know. On one hand I hate myself being misinterpreted as saying something that I didnt really say but could be construed a certain way but at the same time if someone says thats how they are interpreting it and are offended, you should apologise then clarify what you actually meant and then stop doing said thing that people get offended by.

    As for the actual outrage, as long as people are getting outraged across the board not just specific groups I can live with it.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRvGLbK3Hik
    (I cant get it to work for some reason)
    Watch that commercial. Now imagine it with the roles reversed, how far into the production process do you think the ad would get before someone says "we cant do that"
     
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  8. Starkist

    Starkist (To Rip) The Heart From Your Hate

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    A complaint often comes with another complaint. It is viewed as a big deal and even if I view it as not, then that is my view. My gripe is how society can make something so small into something massive when there are other things to care or worry about. Everyone seems offended by everything nowadays and people are doing the whole I am right and you are wrong spew just because there is so many ways to express an opinion through social media and the internet.
     
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  9. Spidercanrana

    Spidercanrana Should've Reinstated The Fox
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    But that's exactly what you're doing right now, expressing an opinion as right while those that disagree are probably just "offended by everything" to put it in your words. It's obvious why blackface gets panned in several countries, as I've already stated. Are there some out there who go looking for something to be mad about? Well, yeah. That's not a good argument to make here though when there's plenty of reason for someone from, say the US, to be upset about a public figure going blackface. Cultural significance.

    And just because there are bigger things to worry about out in the world doesn't make this any less a serious issue. That's the fallacy of relative privation.
     
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  10. Starkist

    Starkist (To Rip) The Heart From Your Hate

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    How am I expressing my opinion as right? My opinion is it shouldn't matter but people get so easily offended by every small thing. That fact that social media pushes this type of "news" brings the world backwards instead of moving forward with creating a better history for the next generation of this world. I have stated people shouldn't get easily offended as this world is butt hurt over shit centuries and decades ago. Shouldn't doesn't dictate they cannot feel upset but to my point is people that are upset are people who weren't even alive during the times they are upset about. If I felt that they cannot be upset then that's taking away there right which is to why I stated shouldn't instead cannot. I have stated to my point of the world is letting so many things become foul play when living life in as possible normal way cannot be the case.

    It is like the term AFRICAN American trying to be politically correct when not everyone person who is black is from Africa. It is face paint that can be washed off and it's a dude's idol. Seriously what is the major harm because it's not Halloween or something?

    And cultural significance is to hate or ridicule a white man who dressed black because of what? Where you alive during them hard times? Instead of going for peace we are still pushing a race card that has been taught and learned. It is not that history needs to be forgotten, it is that we are not growing from our history. If someone is born Jewish, should they be upset over a German pretending to be a Jew if the negative impact of history wasn't informed to them?
     
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  11. Spidercanrana

    Spidercanrana Should've Reinstated The Fox
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    When you call opposing views butthurt cry babies who are easily offended, it's easy to get the notion you're acting like your stance is the right one and the others are wrong. People don't go around spewing insults unless they think they're in the right, do they?

    Being alive for one generation isn't some Free Pass to be upset about something either. Not when we have parents who tell their kids what life was like back then, and they in turn tell their kids. And before you traverse the field here by implementing another "things are different" argument, there was a white supremacy rally only months ago. Things aren't all that different. Technology and awareness evolved, though.

    Your claim that African American is proper over black isn't just off-topic, but ridiculous. If someone is from Uganda, you call them Ugandan. If you have no clue, the common nomenclature is PoC. This argument isn't anything like the African American label at all. And even if it was...why would you be upset over a group wanting to be called something? I thought such a thing wouldn't matter to you. It isn't hurting anybody and all that.

    And I think we both know what cultural significance there is to why a white man in blackface is getting hosed. If you don't, I compel you to re-read my first post in this thread. And again, being alive for one generation isn't a magic wand here. We weren't around for a lot of shitty things. Doesn't mean we can't be against said shitty things, does it? The thing about history is that we learn from it. How exactly does ignoring blackface help our understanding of race relations? How does one grow if we're shrugging our shoulders to things that happened back then and are happening now?

    Your example doesn't make sense to me. Are you saying it's okay to pretend to be something you're not if someone is ignorant to said history? How is that a good thing? Ignorance is no excuse. This isn't even getting in to how people in blackface, or even in "Jewface", tend to portray people either. It's not exactly a respectful expression of the target's culture.

    Anyways this could all have been avoided if he just wore the Globetrotter uniform. Nobody kicked up a fuss when white guys went around in Cosby sweaters. It's only when you change your pigmentation when people get mad, which, from a historical perspective, is obvious why they're mad in the first place. Also, kinda creepy to go that extra mile if you're a fan of someone. I like Forest Whitaker. Should I fuck up my eyes to get that point across?



    Anyways, you complained about White Chicks a post or so ago for doing it. Imagine if you grew up knowing how commonplace whiteface was in our history. Imagine how butt hurt you'd be. Now you can understand why people have such a problem with blackface in our country.
     
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  12. Starkist

    Starkist (To Rip) The Heart From Your Hate

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    Didn't complain about White Chicks, it was a basis that people are easily offended over this that it becomes an outcry. Maybe your upset that I don't care that he wore a black face or did whatever he did. White Chicks filmed in 2017 probably wouldn't survive a week or two in the movie theaters. And since when people acting like cry babies a point proven right? It makes no sense as I am.opened minded and you seem closed minded towards the subject. Society is in an emotional downfall. Do I care if people care over this issue? No. Do I feel they shouldn't complain. Yes. But does that mean they cannot complain? No. You are confused because your are simply confused and feel superior as you feel people should be upset over it and I could careless but voiced that society has become a bunch of cry babies over stupid shit that should have been done a long time ago. Ignorance is taught and learned so where are you coming from inreagrd to it making the situation correct or not?

    As to not being alive during those times which stands my point that people are taught negative views and then learned to hate something that has not been around for years. Again, should a Jewish person who was born way after WW2 be upset if a German dressed up like a Jew? In your view the Jewish person should be because we shouldn't let things go in this world. It is easier to hate than it is to love in this day and age why? Because it is all that people seem to deal with. Dragging shit onwards throguht history in order to keep the "this has happened to our ancestors " part alive. And if roles were flipped, what difference would it make to me? I did nothing to harm people of years ago, and if my heritage has, I should then what? Feel superior based off my skin color or be human and know life is to love not hate?

    And being against shitty things proves what I keep saying. People who are upset with this HAD nothing to do with what happened back then. They are making it seems like the dude was being racist and stating racists remarks while dressed up in a black face. Oh, and would Tropic Thunder fit in in 2017? Same goes for white chicks. Humans are their own worst enemies because we don't learn from our history, we just keep it going in subtle ways.
     
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