I have never watched TNA so I don't know about Joe, but Umaga has all the tools to be a world champ he's athletic and can carry a match plus I like the fact they haven't made him look weak how they do most big guys ex Khali, Kane and Yokozuna at the end; and they say Umaga will start talking soon so we will see.
Youmanga > Joe in every way shape and form
- Thread starter Mighty NorCal
- Start date
- Status
I totally agree with this topic-Umaga > Joe.
Lets Look at Joe-..............I can't really pick up anything different or refreshing about him.
Now Lets Look at Umaga-Different than your average monster heel.This guy is fast,strong and plays his gimmick to perfection.Hell Umaga beats Joe on Mic skills-When Umaga spoke a while back that was funnier and more epic than Joe has done ever.
I can't pick out a good Joe match(I don't watch TNA but keep up to date with it) but Umaga has had tons such as him and Cena at Rumble 07.
Umaga > Joe.
Lets Look at Joe-..............I can't really pick up anything different or refreshing about him.
Now Lets Look at Umaga-Different than your average monster heel.This guy is fast,strong and plays his gimmick to perfection.Hell Umaga beats Joe on Mic skills-When Umaga spoke a while back that was funnier and more epic than Joe has done ever.
I can't pick out a good Joe match(I don't watch TNA but keep up to date with it) but Umaga has had tons such as him and Cena at Rumble 07.
Umaga > Joe.
I try to listen to everyones opinion, therefore I respected your opinion until you rebuffed it with:
Exactly how can you have an accurate opinion on something if you only know 50% of the information?
"Keeping up to date" and actually following something are two different things.
You cannot take judgement by simply reading reports by other people who may have different preferences from yourself. Most of the websites are unjustly biased against TNA anyway so how would you get any sort of accurate opinion of Joe by reading net reports?
Well how could you if:
Try watching it, try watching Joe. If after you have seen a good (and that means more than one) amount of his matches, your opinion is still the same then fine. But to put him down before that is unjust.
You don't send a criminal to jail without trial and hearing the evidence, don't put down a wrestler without seeing his side of the story.
I agreed with the first half of that. Umaga is a great athelete and a quality entertainer. But to say he has better mic skills than Joe, when he doesn't even talk is unfair and wrong. As for the humour, Joes character is more of a shoot type and doesn't really involve comedy. Anyway, how would you come to that opinion if:
Ohhhhhhh my days!
Well you wouldn't be able to pick out a good Joe match if you don't watch him. I can happily steer you in the direction of many, MANY great Joe matches... let me know if you want
[Hmmmm... he's had "tons" of good matches but you only manage to list one... from last year?
Umaga has improved a lot and has improved very quickly in a short amount of time. His gimmick is great and the guy can wrestle. He is definately not sloppy or lazy in the ring which is a huge bonus. While I like both Umaga and Samoa Joe, Umaga in my mind is far more superior.
Both guys are very athletic considering they are quite large. But Umaga gets away with being "fat" because thats his gimmick, a big and huge monster. Samoa Joe on the other hand, looks out of shape and his body type best suits a heel in my opinion. Umaga's character is intense and very monster like. The guy plays the role so well. After two years with the WWE, Umaga is already a low main eventer. Which is a superstar that can hang with the big guys.
Sure Samoa Joe is or was the TNA World Heavyweight Champ, but there is a huge difference between the WWE World Titles, and the TNA Heavyweight Title. Joe quite frankly, just doesn't have any big drawing power. I think Umaga does draw much better than Joe. So I do agree with the fact that Umaga is indeed more superior than Samoa Joe in every way shape and form.
Both guys are very athletic considering they are quite large. But Umaga gets away with being "fat" because thats his gimmick, a big and huge monster. Samoa Joe on the other hand, looks out of shape and his body type best suits a heel in my opinion. Umaga's character is intense and very monster like. The guy plays the role so well. After two years with the WWE, Umaga is already a low main eventer. Which is a superstar that can hang with the big guys.
Sure Samoa Joe is or was the TNA World Heavyweight Champ, but there is a huge difference between the WWE World Titles, and the TNA Heavyweight Title. Joe quite frankly, just doesn't have any big drawing power. I think Umaga does draw much better than Joe. So I do agree with the fact that Umaga is indeed more superior than Samoa Joe in every way shape and form.
I agree. Umaga to me is more: entertaining, athletic, "the look", and strong. Even without Umaga talking he still has the edge over Joe. I just cant get over Joes look. He looks so average. Umaga looks like a beast.
An interesting way to think about it is like this. Joe and Umaga are sort of similiar if you will. Look at Umagas push and Joes push. If Joe was in the WWE hed be going nowhere. Somehow hes the Tna Champ though? That says something...
An interesting way to think about it is like this. Joe and Umaga are sort of similiar if you will. Look at Umagas push and Joes push. If Joe was in the WWE hed be going nowhere. Somehow hes the Tna Champ though? That says something...
HellBoundPower
Earth Born, HellBound
I've honestly never been impressed with Samoa Joe. Sure, he's pretty quick and athletic for a fat guy, but that's about as far as it goes. He's an average worker, but picked up an indy fan following, which is the reason he's so popular. I've just never understood the hype. People were billing him as the next big thing in wrestling, the next Ric Flair. He's not even close. He's just an average worker who gets over by how athletic he is for a fat guy. If he were a normal weight, people would see his flaws more easily.
The same COULD be said for Umaga as well, but Umaga backs it up by being able to play his character perfectly, and adapt his style to fit his alignment as a face or a heel. He brings more to the table than Joe in my opinion, because he can play a dominant heel, and Joe can't. Joe's heel run didn't work because he would be doing things a face would do, instead of adapting his style to fit is heel characteristics.
All in all, Umaga > Samoa Joe. Not by as much as people are saying, as I think both men are a little overrated. But I can see more why people are rating Umaga so high, as opposed to Joe, who is Average in my mind. People calling him Average Joe are right on the money in my mind.
The same COULD be said for Umaga as well, but Umaga backs it up by being able to play his character perfectly, and adapt his style to fit his alignment as a face or a heel. He brings more to the table than Joe in my opinion, because he can play a dominant heel, and Joe can't. Joe's heel run didn't work because he would be doing things a face would do, instead of adapting his style to fit is heel characteristics.
All in all, Umaga > Samoa Joe. Not by as much as people are saying, as I think both men are a little overrated. But I can see more why people are rating Umaga so high, as opposed to Joe, who is Average in my mind. People calling him Average Joe are right on the money in my mind.
Average worker? Eh, I'd need a decent definition to decide. I don't think Joe's average at all. He's only impressive because he's agile for a fat guy? Well, The Undertaker doing a Suicide Dive wouldn't be impressive if he only weighed 150 lbs. Vader and Bigelow wouldn't have careers. It's half the reason Brock Lesnar got over. I fail to see your point. I mean, if my auntie had bollocks, she'd be my uncle. And I've never, ever heard anyone call Samoa Joe the next Ric Flair.
Umaga's complex character sure is hard to portray alright. I mean, seriously, what's so incredible about this character? It's been seen in wrestling hundreds of times before, and people with it are rarely something special. I'll tell you how he changes his face/heel alignment. if he's a heel, he attacks faces. If he's a face, he attacks heels. The character stays the same.
Joe isn't average. Since getting the belt, Joe has undergone some fair and unfair criticism. I'd say I'm responsible for half the doubt drummed up around Joe's title reign. However, he's been under some unfair criticism. There really is no one else like him in this corner of the sport, and so he is far from average.
Average Joe is terrible. The love affair the IWC has with this untalented hack is beyond me. I don't see comparisons to Ric Flair, even though I do think those would be very appropriate. I have seen comparisons to Chris Benoit, which is just flat out insulting to anyone that has a Wrestling IQ. Chris Benoit understood psychology and storytelling probably as well as anyone that has wrestled this last decade. Everything he did in a match led up to a point and was used rationale. Average Joe is all about hitting spots and working stiff.
Every criticism Average Joe get is spot on. The guy is abysmal on the microphone. The guy is terrible in the ring, and his match style is just flat out boring. Sure, I give credit to the big man, when his fat ass moves and plunges over the top ropes, that takes some talent for a guy that big. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, Average Joe is this decades poor version of Taz. Taz was a far more entertaining brutal submission style wrestler then Joe could ever hope to be. People jizz over Joe because he gets into slap fest and works stiff, much like people jizz over Ric Flair and his chops. It's all garbage and crap.
Umaga started off slow in the WWE, but there is no denying the talent that that guy has. His athleticism is incredible. His speed is awesome, his portrayal of the character is spot on. I daresay that Umaga maybe the best character portrayal in the world of Wrestling next to the Undertaker. Umaga wrestles a style of match more recognizable and logical for a guy his size. Umaga, being a crazy Samoan, comes across as more believable as a legit threat then Average Joe being himself does anyday of the week.
Every criticism Average Joe get is spot on. The guy is abysmal on the microphone. The guy is terrible in the ring, and his match style is just flat out boring. Sure, I give credit to the big man, when his fat ass moves and plunges over the top ropes, that takes some talent for a guy that big. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, Average Joe is this decades poor version of Taz. Taz was a far more entertaining brutal submission style wrestler then Joe could ever hope to be. People jizz over Joe because he gets into slap fest and works stiff, much like people jizz over Ric Flair and his chops. It's all garbage and crap.
Umaga started off slow in the WWE, but there is no denying the talent that that guy has. His athleticism is incredible. His speed is awesome, his portrayal of the character is spot on. I daresay that Umaga maybe the best character portrayal in the world of Wrestling next to the Undertaker. Umaga wrestles a style of match more recognizable and logical for a guy his size. Umaga, being a crazy Samoan, comes across as more believable as a legit threat then Average Joe being himself does anyday of the week.
Greenlight13
Getting Noticed By Management
Ok I have to say this is one of the most rediculous claims I have ever heard in my life.
Saying Joe has a bad look is a little closed minded from my point of view. I can honestly say if Khali or Big Daddy V could wrestle I would enjoy watching them, the reason they are both bad is they have no wrestling skill and in V's case, a bad look as well. Sure Joe isn't the ideal image of an attractive male athlete, but to be honest, does that really bother you? Does the attractiveness of a male wrestler affect your enjoyment of them? Joe's in-ring ability nulifies his body issues in my mind whereas Big Daddy V's only enhance them. Major difference.
You're critisizing Joe's mic work when Umaga doesn't even talk (although it's been noted they plan to make him start soon, regardless I HIGHLY doubt he will be better than Joe).
You're saying Joe doesn't sell.... does Umaga? Umaga's been in about 2 main events, one against Cena which was bad, and I believe he may have been in an elimination chamber and let's face it, the match, not the participants sold that. Joe meanwhile draws at a main event level, look at his numbers when he is paired with Angle on PPV.
Athletically it's hard to tell because they work different styles, Umaga can certainly run faster than Joe and has been known to leave his feet, but I would wager he couldn't hit the suicide dives and leaping kicks the way Joe does.
Then finally let's look at in ring ability. Joe can mat wrestle, chain wrestle, submission wrestle, brawl, strike, grapple and fly. Umaga is powerful and brawls and strikes very well, but I supremely doubt Eddie Fatu's intimate knowledge of mat wrestling technique and knows very few submissions.
Just to clear up, none of this is a knock on Umaga, I personally am very big on him and think he could main event on Smackdown in a way he couldn't in Raw, I think he's one of the best big man workers around and to look at where he came from (3 Minute Warning) the improvement is staggering. However to say that he is better than Joe in any way let alone every way is a little ricockulous in my mind.
Saying Joe has a bad look is a little closed minded from my point of view. I can honestly say if Khali or Big Daddy V could wrestle I would enjoy watching them, the reason they are both bad is they have no wrestling skill and in V's case, a bad look as well. Sure Joe isn't the ideal image of an attractive male athlete, but to be honest, does that really bother you? Does the attractiveness of a male wrestler affect your enjoyment of them? Joe's in-ring ability nulifies his body issues in my mind whereas Big Daddy V's only enhance them. Major difference.
You're critisizing Joe's mic work when Umaga doesn't even talk (although it's been noted they plan to make him start soon, regardless I HIGHLY doubt he will be better than Joe).
You're saying Joe doesn't sell.... does Umaga? Umaga's been in about 2 main events, one against Cena which was bad, and I believe he may have been in an elimination chamber and let's face it, the match, not the participants sold that. Joe meanwhile draws at a main event level, look at his numbers when he is paired with Angle on PPV.
Athletically it's hard to tell because they work different styles, Umaga can certainly run faster than Joe and has been known to leave his feet, but I would wager he couldn't hit the suicide dives and leaping kicks the way Joe does.
Then finally let's look at in ring ability. Joe can mat wrestle, chain wrestle, submission wrestle, brawl, strike, grapple and fly. Umaga is powerful and brawls and strikes very well, but I supremely doubt Eddie Fatu's intimate knowledge of mat wrestling technique and knows very few submissions.
Just to clear up, none of this is a knock on Umaga, I personally am very big on him and think he could main event on Smackdown in a way he couldn't in Raw, I think he's one of the best big man workers around and to look at where he came from (3 Minute Warning) the improvement is staggering. However to say that he is better than Joe in any way let alone every way is a little ricockulous in my mind.
Ok now WHAT? I cannot believe there is even a discussion about this.
I really do think that one of the main down falls to wrestling, WWE mainly, is the lard asses that they give props to because they are big. Big daddy V, no wrestling ability, The great kali, no wrestling ability, big show, mark henery.
All impressive with strength and size but reality NO wrestling ability.
Now Umaga is not as slow as the names above but to say he is as good as Joe? Thats insane.
Joe got his name from being an Xdivision champ with a Heavyweight body. He was the first in his weight class that showed incredible skill.
Now umaga.....Marketability is great.(if your 6 years old)
Mic skills......a 1 from 1-10
Wrestling skills.....a 5 from 1-10
Joe.......Marketablity is great
Mic skills ......an 8 out of 10
Wrestling ability 8 out of 10
Why are the 2 even in the same discussion topic...because they are Fat?
I know Im going to get some booo's on the next comment. But I even feel WWE's Monster (kane) is no where close to the ability of TNA's Monster (Abyss)
Yes Abyss doesn't have the size factor but when it comes down to straight wrestling ablility Abyss conquors. Hands down.
Im not just touting TNA over WWE because Im trying to be different but in reallity if you want soapopera then watch WWE. If you want to watch a wrestling show you watch TNA.
now boo me like you do disco!
I really do think that one of the main down falls to wrestling, WWE mainly, is the lard asses that they give props to because they are big. Big daddy V, no wrestling ability, The great kali, no wrestling ability, big show, mark henery.
All impressive with strength and size but reality NO wrestling ability.
Now Umaga is not as slow as the names above but to say he is as good as Joe? Thats insane.
Joe got his name from being an Xdivision champ with a Heavyweight body. He was the first in his weight class that showed incredible skill.
Now umaga.....Marketability is great.(if your 6 years old)
Mic skills......a 1 from 1-10
Wrestling skills.....a 5 from 1-10
Joe.......Marketablity is great
Mic skills ......an 8 out of 10
Wrestling ability 8 out of 10
Why are the 2 even in the same discussion topic...because they are Fat?
I know Im going to get some booo's on the next comment. But I even feel WWE's Monster (kane) is no where close to the ability of TNA's Monster (Abyss)
Yes Abyss doesn't have the size factor but when it comes down to straight wrestling ablility Abyss conquors. Hands down.
Im not just touting TNA over WWE because Im trying to be different but in reallity if you want soapopera then watch WWE. If you want to watch a wrestling show you watch TNA.
now boo me like you do disco!
I've never heard much over hype for Joe. He's very solid, athletic, especially for a big guy and has a good move set. I've never heard anyone call him the next Ric Flair really, what Joe lacks in charisma he makes up for in the ring. He could only paly a certain role as a babyface really, though I think he could make a better heel.
Anyway, I don't see why people make out Joe to be someone who is overhyped by indie fans, in my eyes, the only person who falls into that category is CM Punk, but that's just my opinion.
Anyway, I don't see why people make out Joe to be someone who is overhyped by indie fans, in my eyes, the only person who falls into that category is CM Punk, but that's just my opinion.
Ok now WHAT? I cannot believe there is even a discussion about this.
I really do think that one of the main down falls to wrestling, WWE mainly, is the lard asses that they give props to because they are big. Big daddy V, no wrestling ability, The great kali, no wrestling ability, big show, mark henery.
All impressive with strength and size but reality NO wrestling ability.
Now Umaga is not as slow as the names above but to say he is as good as Joe? Thats insane.
Joe got his name from being an Xdivision champ with a Heavyweight body. He was the first in his weight class that showed incredible skill.
Now umaga.....Marketability is great.(if your 6 years old)
Mic skills......a 1 from 1-10
Wrestling skills.....a 5 from 1-10
Joe.......Marketablity is great
Mic skills ......an 8 out of 10
Wrestling ability 8 out of 10
Why are the 2 even in the same discussion topic...because they are Fat?
I know Im going to get some booo's on the next comment. But I even feel WWE's Monster (kane) is no where close to the ability of TNA's Monster (Abyss)
Yes Abyss doesn't have the size factor but when it comes down to straight wrestling ablility Abyss conquors. Hands down.
Im not just touting TNA over WWE because Im trying to be different but in reallity if you want soapopera then watch WWE. If you want to watch a wrestling show you watch TNA.
now boo me like you do disco!
I really do think that one of the main down falls to wrestling, WWE mainly, is the lard asses that they give props to because they are big. Big daddy V, no wrestling ability, The great kali, no wrestling ability, big show, mark henery.
All impressive with strength and size but reality NO wrestling ability.
Now Umaga is not as slow as the names above but to say he is as good as Joe? Thats insane.
Joe got his name from being an Xdivision champ with a Heavyweight body. He was the first in his weight class that showed incredible skill.
Now umaga.....Marketability is great.(if your 6 years old)
Mic skills......a 1 from 1-10
Wrestling skills.....a 5 from 1-10
Joe.......Marketablity is great
Mic skills ......an 8 out of 10
Wrestling ability 8 out of 10
Why are the 2 even in the same discussion topic...because they are Fat?
I know Im going to get some booo's on the next comment. But I even feel WWE's Monster (kane) is no where close to the ability of TNA's Monster (Abyss)
Yes Abyss doesn't have the size factor but when it comes down to straight wrestling ablility Abyss conquors. Hands down.
Im not just touting TNA over WWE because Im trying to be different but in reallity if you want soapopera then watch WWE. If you want to watch a wrestling show you watch TNA.
now boo me like you do disco!
woolsiriser
Dark Match Jobber
Joe has no mike skills, he's terrible, his mic skills are up there with rey mastiro. I would rather listing to umaga yell over joe trying to cut a promo.
Umaga jobbing to anyone would be more entertaining than an average joe match. Like everyone else said, joe can move for a fat ass, but that's about it.
Who exactly is joe being marketed to?? great marketability, please explain.
wow thats easy. watch ANY tna show. "Joes gonna kill you" "JOE!JOE! JOE!"
The crowd loves him and half of them are wearing joe shirts. He has a unique look. Foreinstance, AJ in my opinion one of the best high flying techniquil (spelling) wrestlers out today. But he is hard to market. He looks like any good looking jock in any high school. But joe is large, Hawian, fast and dominates. Thats market-ablility.
Ok, not to sound like an ass but how do you not know how to spell technical?
Anyway, true, Joe is average at best. He's a decent speaker, but has zero charisma to elevate his character. His promos are like shoot promos, except we not it's scripted so it kind of makes them shit. His best promo was when he went off on Scott Hall for no-showing, because we found out it wasn't staged. Hell, anyone could have guessed it wasn't by Nash's reaction, so Joe is one of those guys, who like Punk, would have prospered in the old school ECW because in the TNA/WWE world, he'll be considered average at best because you either get over by having a great look, marketability or being charismatic. Joe is over in TNA due to his indy following, and stiff in-ring style, not to mention he can move pretty fast for a rounded heavyweight, but that would amount to nothing up North where WWE fans rarely watch ROH and other indy organizations. Let's say if he were to debut in ECW next week. At most, we'd hear a few scattered TNA chants and that would be about it.
Umaga is pretty much a lot like Joe, they are both athletic for big Samoan guys, and I would assess Umaga isn't very charismatic, either. Sure, he can play his character well, he's had years to perfect it, so he better, but in terms of charisma, I think he is just along Joe's level; he has none. I guess we'll find out when he starts talking, which I'm not very much looking forward to. I mean, after years of screaming in a native language, what excuse will he have to explain why he never spoke in English before?
Anyway, true, Joe is average at best. He's a decent speaker, but has zero charisma to elevate his character. His promos are like shoot promos, except we not it's scripted so it kind of makes them shit. His best promo was when he went off on Scott Hall for no-showing, because we found out it wasn't staged. Hell, anyone could have guessed it wasn't by Nash's reaction, so Joe is one of those guys, who like Punk, would have prospered in the old school ECW because in the TNA/WWE world, he'll be considered average at best because you either get over by having a great look, marketability or being charismatic. Joe is over in TNA due to his indy following, and stiff in-ring style, not to mention he can move pretty fast for a rounded heavyweight, but that would amount to nothing up North where WWE fans rarely watch ROH and other indy organizations. Let's say if he were to debut in ECW next week. At most, we'd hear a few scattered TNA chants and that would be about it.
Umaga is pretty much a lot like Joe, they are both athletic for big Samoan guys, and I would assess Umaga isn't very charismatic, either. Sure, he can play his character well, he's had years to perfect it, so he better, but in terms of charisma, I think he is just along Joe's level; he has none. I guess we'll find out when he starts talking, which I'm not very much looking forward to. I mean, after years of screaming in a native language, what excuse will he have to explain why he never spoke in English before?
I think people think too much about psychology. Psychology is, well, acting. Acting how a real fighter would in order to suspend disbelief. I don't see any problem in this department with Joe. I mean, half the people that people say have great psychology spent half their matches taunting and sizing up their opponent. People confuse flamboyancy with good psychology. I still think that psychology is completely the wrong word for it, regardless. In a company that's spot-happy, Joe is very reserved in comparison. I see no problem at all with his logic as it seems perfectly, well, logical.
Well, that's a point of view and - in my opinion - a skewed one. In my eyes, Joe is one of the most versatile, and thus entertaining, wrestlers in the business today.
I haven't seen Joe get into a slapfest in while, and to suggest that it's a prominent part of his work - at least his TNA work - when he's got so many other aspects to his wrestling is wrong. I do think Joe is very much comparable to Taz. But a poor man's Taz? Ehh.
I completely disagree. Umaga's athleticism is incredible but Joe's isn't, even though Joe is much more athletic? Huh? His speed is awesome but Joe's isn't, even though Joe ends his runs - which are just as quick - although it's almost impossible to make an accurate comparison - in painful looking moves and strikes instead of an ass slam? And Umaga hasn't come across as legit threat since he started jobbing to the stars. Granted, Joe hasn't either, since Nash bent him over and started whispering sweet nothings in his ear.
The Instant Classic91
Dark Match Jobber
Im seem to be in the minority here I guess.
First point I simply HATE Umaga (or YOUMANGA)
And I for one have alway been hugely impressed with Somoa Joe.
But as I want this post to be debated respectfully I will remain as unbiased as humanly possible.
Each point Ill start with Umaga and Ill tell you why Joes better.
Agility; please tell me anything remotely agile Umaga has done apart from run corner to corner once in a while and jump off the middle rope, wow impressive.
Joe on the other hand at 280 lbs is flying around the ring like a cruiserweight.
What I love is the way people are saying "O its only because hes fat that everyone marks out over his high flying,"
yes, thats the fucking point, hes a 280lbs man, as someone else here has posted if the Undertaker was 150lbs as apposed to 299 would his suicide dive at WM23 be as impressive?
No.
Obviously not.
Mic skills; Ill be the first to admit Joes mic skills leave a lot to be desired, but he is far from terrible imo, I have heard considerably worse.
And Umaga's mic skills?
....
I dont now.
As hes never on the mic.
He needed Astrada as a mouthpiece, and Astrada is a great talker, but its not Umaga.
The most you here from him is random gibberish when the ref counts a pin fall.
So how anyone say Joe is bad, yet compare him to Umaga is beyond me.
Ability to draw; Joe is continously in the main event and he draws, not him alone.
But he does.
And does Umaga?
Hell no.
The only time he has ever made any difference to PPV buys was when he main evented against Cena.
Over with the fans; Is Joe?
Well just open your ears.
The constant chants of "Joes gunna kill you!!" show that he is huge with the fans.
He has during the time in the indies, from the moment he stepped foot in TNA he has been hugely over.
Umaga?
Is he fuck.
I mean Ill give the guy his credit, when Astrada was his mouthpiece he was well over, the fans believed he was this unstoppable montser.
When he was with the McMahons, again imo he was over.
But since losses to Cena, Lashley, Kane and others, this idea of him being unstoppable is simply unbelievable.
Charisma; Again Joe is not the most charismatic of them all.
But I fail to see how a man with an extremely 1 dimensional gimmick and doesnt say a single word in english be referred to as "charismatic"
This whole thread imo is just another biased TNA bashing thread.
If the 2 roles were the other way around the majority of people would be defending Joe.
Anyway come discuss.
First point I simply HATE Umaga (or YOUMANGA)
And I for one have alway been hugely impressed with Somoa Joe.
But as I want this post to be debated respectfully I will remain as unbiased as humanly possible.
Each point Ill start with Umaga and Ill tell you why Joes better.
Agility; please tell me anything remotely agile Umaga has done apart from run corner to corner once in a while and jump off the middle rope, wow impressive.
Joe on the other hand at 280 lbs is flying around the ring like a cruiserweight.
What I love is the way people are saying "O its only because hes fat that everyone marks out over his high flying,"
yes, thats the fucking point, hes a 280lbs man, as someone else here has posted if the Undertaker was 150lbs as apposed to 299 would his suicide dive at WM23 be as impressive?
No.
Obviously not.
Mic skills; Ill be the first to admit Joes mic skills leave a lot to be desired, but he is far from terrible imo, I have heard considerably worse.
And Umaga's mic skills?
....
I dont now.
As hes never on the mic.
He needed Astrada as a mouthpiece, and Astrada is a great talker, but its not Umaga.
The most you here from him is random gibberish when the ref counts a pin fall.
So how anyone say Joe is bad, yet compare him to Umaga is beyond me.
Ability to draw; Joe is continously in the main event and he draws, not him alone.
But he does.
And does Umaga?
Hell no.
The only time he has ever made any difference to PPV buys was when he main evented against Cena.
Over with the fans; Is Joe?
Well just open your ears.
The constant chants of "Joes gunna kill you!!" show that he is huge with the fans.
He has during the time in the indies, from the moment he stepped foot in TNA he has been hugely over.
Umaga?
Is he fuck.
I mean Ill give the guy his credit, when Astrada was his mouthpiece he was well over, the fans believed he was this unstoppable montser.
When he was with the McMahons, again imo he was over.
But since losses to Cena, Lashley, Kane and others, this idea of him being unstoppable is simply unbelievable.
Charisma; Again Joe is not the most charismatic of them all.
But I fail to see how a man with an extremely 1 dimensional gimmick and doesnt say a single word in english be referred to as "charismatic"
This whole thread imo is just another biased TNA bashing thread.
If the 2 roles were the other way around the majority of people would be defending Joe.
Anyway come discuss.
ok let me first off say that I do like both TNA and WWE and do think Samoa Joe and Umaga are great, however (in ones opinion) Joes better.
1. Matches - Umaga and Hardy had a great serise same with Cena and Umaga (hurts me to say Cena and great in the same sentence, but thats not the topic of this thread so lets just leave that be) but as good as those were Joe, Daniels and Styles war, the Angle serise and the punk trilogy cant be beaten. Not by Umaga Matches anyway. Even without these guys to "cary" him hes had great matches with Jimmy Rave, Austin Aries, Jay Lethal the list goes on
2. Overness - Anyone that says Joe isn't over clearly does not watch TNA and I seen earlier that he cant pull off being a heel cause he got cheered remind you of any other superstar that got cheered when they were supposed to be heel (Give you a clue initials SCSA). Now in ones opinion Umaga lost a lot of appeal when he got beat and started getting jobbed out, not to say that he isn't any less liked or respected but ones opinion that he lost appeal when that happened.
3. Look - I am glad that both these guys don't have the "superstar look" because it is said best in the Punk Joe straight shooting if everyone has great physices(sp?) then they lose the specialness. but as far as who has the better look Umaga wins there, he looks like a true psych job. But Joe looking "average" is also good it gives hope to the kids, and kids at heart, that you dont have to look loike a roided up freak to wrestle.
4 Mic Skills - Umaga doesn't speak so Joe wins by Default.
So thats why in ones opinion Joe is better. and to be honest the only thing thats similar between them is they are both agile and play Samoan bad asses, Umaga works power Joe's style is technical, they are both good at their speciality.
1. Matches - Umaga and Hardy had a great serise same with Cena and Umaga (hurts me to say Cena and great in the same sentence, but thats not the topic of this thread so lets just leave that be) but as good as those were Joe, Daniels and Styles war, the Angle serise and the punk trilogy cant be beaten. Not by Umaga Matches anyway. Even without these guys to "cary" him hes had great matches with Jimmy Rave, Austin Aries, Jay Lethal the list goes on
2. Overness - Anyone that says Joe isn't over clearly does not watch TNA and I seen earlier that he cant pull off being a heel cause he got cheered remind you of any other superstar that got cheered when they were supposed to be heel (Give you a clue initials SCSA). Now in ones opinion Umaga lost a lot of appeal when he got beat and started getting jobbed out, not to say that he isn't any less liked or respected but ones opinion that he lost appeal when that happened.
3. Look - I am glad that both these guys don't have the "superstar look" because it is said best in the Punk Joe straight shooting if everyone has great physices(sp?) then they lose the specialness. but as far as who has the better look Umaga wins there, he looks like a true psych job. But Joe looking "average" is also good it gives hope to the kids, and kids at heart, that you dont have to look loike a roided up freak to wrestle.
4 Mic Skills - Umaga doesn't speak so Joe wins by Default.
So thats why in ones opinion Joe is better. and to be honest the only thing thats similar between them is they are both agile and play Samoan bad asses, Umaga works power Joe's style is technical, they are both good at their speciality.
I think it comes down to how they're used and portrayed. Umaga has been developed really well in my mind, his gimmick fits him perfectly and it accentuates all the pluses he has and does a pretty good job of hiding all the negatives (and he CERTAINLY has negatives). Umaga definitely has talent in the ring and plays his gimmick perfectly both with his in ring style (the moves he uses) and the character he shows. But I don't think he's a better wrestler then Samoa Joe.. Joe can have phenomenal matches with anyone if given the chance and has just as good a set of moves as Umaga does. As for charisma? It all comes down to the misuse of Samoa Joe in TNA which gives people a negative view of him as a character. He can cut an amazing promo when given the chance and given quality content, and he has great charisma when he's not held back by silly storylines or using him in poor ways. Samoa Joe needs to be used in ways like Ring of Honor did, and how he was used in the BEGINNING of his run in TNA.. and if TNA had for the long term then I believe views would entirely change from what they are right now, in my opinion. Samoa Joe is also much more marketable then Umaga.
How is Umaga marketable to the masses?
How is Umaga marketable to the masses?
Joe hasn't done anything superb to impress me. But then again, neither has Umaga. I really don't enjoy either of them, but if I had to choose who I thought was better, I'd go for Umaga. Umaga has a really cool presence in front of a crowd. He is my favorite in-ring monster right now.
The only reason I get excited for Joe, is because Kevin Nash might be coming out with him.
The only reason I get excited for Joe, is because Kevin Nash might be coming out with him.
agentsmith22
Dark Match Jobber
they're both extremely talented, obviosuly. one being better than the other is merely a matter of taste, not a measure of skill. Take a look at Joe's ROH stuff. Beats anything Umaga has ever done, even when he was in Japan. They've softened the Joe character a bit now with all his whining, but he's still fantastic. Umaga has the "WWE" glass ceiling put on him, so we can never know how good and athletic he really is. I'd love to see Umaga in more high profile mathcups, the Cena one was okay, but its hard to judge because it was against Cena. His stuff against Triple H wasn't good. So we'll see when he's in the main event scene again, hopefully soon, if it delivers. On the other hand, Joe vs. Punk, Joe vs. Kobashi, Joe vs. Misawa, Joe vs. Angle, all incredible.Given the same oppurtunities, it would be interesting to see how Umaga would do. Stop being haters, and start being pro wrestling fans! or turn off the tele and watch something else.
I absolutely 100% feel that Samoa Joe is better than Umaga.
Where some people say Joe's mic skills are bad, I think his tone is intense. And intensity is really part of his gimmick. He's an intense ground and pound guy. The guy can perform outstanding feats.
I guess I don't watch the same WWE as you guys but I do not see Umaga showing up Samoa Joe in athletism what so ever. I don't think any of us can I say Umaga is more athletic than joe because what has Umaga shown us?
Where some people say Joe's mic skills are bad, I think his tone is intense. And intensity is really part of his gimmick. He's an intense ground and pound guy. The guy can perform outstanding feats.
I guess I don't watch the same WWE as you guys but I do not see Umaga showing up Samoa Joe in athletism what so ever. I don't think any of us can I say Umaga is more athletic than joe because what has Umaga shown us?
Joe > Umaga
His matches are better. I really don't see how you can argue that they are not. It's clear that he's more athletic, I don't see how you could argue that either. I guess it depends on your personal style though. I would pretty much rather see an anyone vs. Joe than a Michaels vs. Umaga match.
Now on the mic. I can totally see why people don't like Joe. I don't think he's terrible, but he's not the best. He is very repetitive though. If you are arguing that Umaga not talking is better than Joe talking, fine, that's an opinion, but Joe isn't that bad.
I do think that Joe's finisher is a little lame though...but not as lame as a thumb poke.
Also, TNA does need to book Joe a little better. It seems that he's always in thrown together feud with multiple potential feuds being teased. They need to focus on a one on one setup. I also think that Joe could benefit from being in some sort of stable but I don't see anyone setup in TNA right now that they could do (I think they'd need a vet leader but not any of the guys there now).
Umaga is simply not entertaining to me. I don't like "monster" characters and I don't like non-talking wrestlers (at least not without a manager). This characters simply cannot stand up to most regular characters. Umaga does get an automatic bonus point though whenever Regal refers to him a YouManga.
His matches are better. I really don't see how you can argue that they are not. It's clear that he's more athletic, I don't see how you could argue that either. I guess it depends on your personal style though. I would pretty much rather see an anyone vs. Joe than a Michaels vs. Umaga match.
Now on the mic. I can totally see why people don't like Joe. I don't think he's terrible, but he's not the best. He is very repetitive though. If you are arguing that Umaga not talking is better than Joe talking, fine, that's an opinion, but Joe isn't that bad.
I do think that Joe's finisher is a little lame though...but not as lame as a thumb poke.
Also, TNA does need to book Joe a little better. It seems that he's always in thrown together feud with multiple potential feuds being teased. They need to focus on a one on one setup. I also think that Joe could benefit from being in some sort of stable but I don't see anyone setup in TNA right now that they could do (I think they'd need a vet leader but not any of the guys there now).
Umaga is simply not entertaining to me. I don't like "monster" characters and I don't like non-talking wrestlers (at least not without a manager). This characters simply cannot stand up to most regular characters. Umaga does get an automatic bonus point though whenever Regal refers to him a YouManga.
Joe doesn't impress me that much. He is nowhere near as big as Umaga, and he doesn't carry his weight well like Umaga does. In fact, he just looks sloppy and fat. The muscle buster is pretty weak, but then again, so is the Somoan thumb jab crap Spike, so that is pretty much a wash. I would rather watch Umaga yell unintelligibly and stick his tongue out than listen to Joe try to sound intense on the mic. Umaga is booked better, and I like the way he is being used as a 'heel for hire' lately. Joe, on the other hand, is a champ without a belt after a VERY disappointing (to me anyway) match with no finish at a PPV. I give the nod to Umaga, but, I'm really not big on either one of them. If Umaga ever wins a REAL belt (Heavy Weight champ), he will probably only have it for month or so, no lengthy title reign for him. Then he'll probably end up in a tag team with some other "monster" and hold the tag title for a while. I don't think Joe can be the face of a company, so TNA will most likely have him drop the strap fairly soon, I would imagine.
D
DEATH MEAT
Guest
First of all i would like to clear that i am a diehard wwe fan and i watch tna only for some gud fast paced wrestling.Tna's storylines and angles make me sick and the quality of their shows is no better than any indy show.
Now lets go back in time.
"mrs. joe's baby boy couldn't even make it to wwe's development territory". Joe's personality suits indy promotions ,and according to me is not even good for wwe heat.
Back to future.
taking nothing away frm joe he is a gud wrestler who gives his 100% in the ring & has a great set of moves , but you guys can not say that "Joe is amazing for his size as he is fat and weighs 290 lbs". But in reality Joe has no developed biceps and triceps and is a disfigured guy who can not be more than 250 lbs..!!!
I don't think mic skills are that important if you have a charisma and an aura around yourself which is what is missing in Joe and is visibly present in Umaga.
Umaga portrays his samoan savage character to perfection and although he is a huge man but just by seeing him no one can imagine how quick and agile is he !!!
Someone mentioned earlier " how can you judge Joe when you have'nt seen tna regularly". well same goes for joe worshippers- hw can u judge umaga when u hvnt followed him regularly...........
Now lets go back in time.
"mrs. joe's baby boy couldn't even make it to wwe's development territory". Joe's personality suits indy promotions ,and according to me is not even good for wwe heat.
Back to future.
taking nothing away frm joe he is a gud wrestler who gives his 100% in the ring & has a great set of moves , but you guys can not say that "Joe is amazing for his size as he is fat and weighs 290 lbs". But in reality Joe has no developed biceps and triceps and is a disfigured guy who can not be more than 250 lbs..!!!
I don't think mic skills are that important if you have a charisma and an aura around yourself which is what is missing in Joe and is visibly present in Umaga.
Umaga portrays his samoan savage character to perfection and although he is a huge man but just by seeing him no one can imagine how quick and agile is he !!!
Someone mentioned earlier " how can you judge Joe when you have'nt seen tna regularly". well same goes for joe worshippers- hw can u judge umaga when u hvnt followed him regularly...........
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