Youmanga > Joe in every way shape and form

[Mighty NorCal]

Seriously though. I remeber when The ol boy Umaga first debuted, and smarkz called him a "Samoa Joe knockoff".

Idiots.

Joe has an absolute shit look, is laborious on the mic (from what ive heard) and has the charisma of a tree stump.

Umaga on the other hand, Has an awesome look, loads of charisma, and sells like none other. He is so fucking athletic, he could probably pull off the flippy kicky shit that Joe does, but he isnt booked that way.

Selling-Umaga
Charisma- Umaga
Look- Umaga
Overall marketability- Umaga

Come one come all with rebuttals. I shall throw you all asunder.

 

[DeadmanInc.]

I agree 100%. Samoa Joe is a complete bore to watch. He sounds so lazy and unenthusiastic on the mic and his wrestling ability is overrated. The only time I enjoyed watching him was when he was "undefeated" and built up as a potential threat to the world champion. But of course, TNA and its awesome booking had to dump the belt on Kurt Angle and kill off any momentum that Samoa Joe built up. Joe's reign as champion is about a year too late.

Umaga who is about the same size is much more athletic and more charismatic. He has played two very different characters in WWE, Jamal and Umaga, and he made both of them believable. I wouldn't mind seeing Umaga as a World Champion. He's already proven that he can put on great main event matches, such as his Royal Rumble match with Cena. All he really needs is some sort of mouthpiece to cut promos.

 

[jtbsoon2b]

Seriously though. I remeber when The ol boy Umaga first debuted, and smarkz called him a "Samoa Joe knockoff". Idiots.

Joe has an absolute shit look, is laborious on the mic (from what ive heard) and has the charisma of a tree stump.

Umaga on the other hand, Has an awesome look, loads of charisma, and sells like none other. He is so fucking athletic, he could probably pull off the flippy kicky shit that Joe does, but he isnt booked that way.

Selling-Umaga
Charisma- Umaga
Look- Umaga
Overall marketability- Umaga

Come one come all with rebuttals. I shall throw you all asunder.

I dont know about Umaga being more marketable than Average Joe
because Joe actually talks on the mic and usually those wrestlers are more marketable than ones who dont talk (with the exception of Taker and Umaga isnt on Takers level yet)

But other than that I completely agree that Umaga is better in everyway than Average Joe
He is incredibly agile for as big as he is
he is one of the best sellers I have seen in a long time
and he can have a good match with anyone
and Umaga actually looks like a wrestler!


Umaga is 100x > Average Joe!

 

[ShaminThaShamed]

i agree. Although ooou-manga has put on quite a bit of weight since he debuted, i believe that he can pull off a transitional reign of a World Champion. Joe looks as if he came off the street. Umaga is very athletic in the ring for his size to agree with u guys above, which is proof to all the TNA fans that hes a rip off of umaga

 

[TheOneBigWill]

Its funny this thread is even here, because when Samoa Joe was being brought into T.N.A... "I" had originally thought Joe WAS Umaga, just with a different name. Man, not only am I glad I was wrong.. but its no wonder why I'd never heard of Samoa Joe before this either.

Anyone who claims Joe is better than Umaga needs their eyes checked, because they likely have the same issue I had, in believing one was the other. Joe is a good technical wrestler, but the guy is plain as vanilla and doesn't have anything going for him. If he wasn't half Samoan, or all the way, whatever, then he likely wouldn't even be in the business today.

The only thing going for this guy is someone in T.N.A. thought they needed a Goldberg rip-off, only someone who'd be technical and seemingly look impressive. Joe has the look of someone who could work well without speaking and take on a manager. Unfortunately, they let him talk.. mistake. Secondly, Joe as I said before is just plain, and nothing about the guy stands out. (other than hes fat and can move well) So what makes him worthy of being a Champion?

The only reason Joe is where he is, is because he was built properly into being something dominate. (Punk needs to learn from that) However, when you flip the coin (so to speak) Umaga should've been given Joe's push. Umaga has character, and he doesn't NEED to talk. He just blah's shit every once in a while and people know he means f*cking business.

Umaga went almost one year, in being undefeated in the W.W.E. He ran through D-X (H.H.H. & H.B.K.) and destroyed Cena for a bit, before W.W.E. dropped the ball and had him lose via a roll-up, then back-to-back in the match with Cena at the Rumble. (albeit, that match ended a lot better and more believeable)

When you pair the two up. Samoa Joe might have more technical skill than Umaga, but Umaga wins in every other catagory. Size w/ speed, (Umaga) Look, (Umaga) Character, (Umaga) mic skills, (Umaga, seriously) and finally.. the ability to advance himself.. Umaga. Why?

Because what more can Joe possibly fricken do? Hes plain, short of becoming the next Dusty Rhodes (I'm waiting) he can't change into something more advanced. Umaga's character has room for development.

 

[klunderbunker]

I'd have to agree. TNA is notorious for screwing things up, but this was their greatest botch ever. Back in 05/06 when Joe first got there, he was great. He was this unstoppable badass that hardly ever talked and never lost, much like Umaga when he started. Joe was insanely over at that time, and what did they do with him? Nothing. They threw him into the midcard. He pinned the champ clean at No Surrender, and was in a Monster's Ball at Bound for Glory which also involved Spike Dudley. Then he got put together with Angle WAY too early, and it's been downhill ever sense. He's been coasting and has no need to do anything else. Umaga on the other hand has been exactly what his gimmick says: A Samoan Savage. It wouldn't make sense for him to do anything but brawl and attack people and scream into the mic. He plays the character perfectly. I used to be a Joe fan, but now he just coasts on his reputation, and that gets old fast.

 

[bigdogg1991]

If everyone in this thread is saying that Umaga is better than Joe(which i agree completely with), then why has Umaga never been given the WH/WWE championship. He had a run with the IC title but in my opinion the IC/US titles dont mean much anymore.

Now i know that he 'cant' talk on the mic.. but put him with a mouthpiece like he had with Estrada and it solves that problem.

 

[Cinchino]

How is Samoa Joe better than Umaga? Samoa Joe has way better wrestling skills and can make good matches. Umaga whole gimmick is tiresome and he has never impressed me ever since he joined WWE.

 

[Uncle Sam]

The TNA mod is here, and he is pissed. Tremble in fear. Firstly NorCal, you've admitted to watching nineteen minutes of TNA in total, so what the hell man? I'll duke it out with Will. He's the official Joe-hater representative.

Its funny this thread is even here, because when Samoa Joe was being brought into T.N.A... "I" had originally thought Joe WAS Umaga, just with a different name. Man, not only am I glad I was wrong.. but its no wonder why I'd never heard of Samoa Joe before this either.

He was in the indies and it's too much of a mission to actually follow the indies? That's why I hadn't.

Anyone who claims Joe is better than Umaga needs their eyes checked, because they likely have the same issue I had, in believing one was the other. Joe is a good technical wrestler, but the guy is plain as vanilla and doesn't have anything going for him. If he wasn't half Samoan, or all the way, whatever, then he likely wouldn't even be in the business today.

A plain as vanilla technical wrestler? Benoit, Jericho, Malenko. Mysterio's more of a high-flyer but other than the mask he's hardly complex. William Regal, your hero. The Somoan thing may give him an edge, but it's hardly what he is. Joe is entertaining to watch. It's as simple as that. Why? Well, because he's unique. At least as far as the North American mainstream is concerned. Umaga is athletic, yes, but there have been dozens like him. Hell, Rikishi is pretty much a bigger version, ust without the make up. Joe is agile, not just athletic. He knows lists of submissions and powerful slams, and isn't afraid to climb up to, jump off from, roll over or even leap over the top rope, not to mention the hard strikes. It's like if you fed Low Ki lots of cake and didn't cut his hair. That's why he's popular in TNA, for the most part.

The only thing going for this guy is someone in T.N.A. thought they needed a Goldberg rip-off, only someone who'd be technical and seemingly look impressive. Joe has the look of someone who could work well without speaking and take on a manager. Unfortunately, they let him talk.. mistake. Secondly, Joe as I said before is just plain, and nothing about the guy stands out. (other than hes fat and can move well) So what makes him worthy of being a Champion?

Joe could use a mouth piece. We're agreed on that. The guy's character isn't bad, his mic skills are just average. When he first came to TNA, he was shown to be violent and uncaring. To call him a Goldberg rip-off is shortsighted. The only similarity is a winning streak. Character-wise, I'd have compared him more to Taz, or even Angle.

The only reason Joe is where he is, is because he was built properly into being something dominate. (Punk needs to learn from that) However, when you flip the coin (so to speak) Umaga should've been given Joe's push. Umaga has character, and he doesn't NEED to talk. He just blah's shit every once in a while and people know he means f*cking business.

Joe kicked the shit out of people and that's how they knew he meant fucking business.

Umaga went almost one year, in being undefeated in the W.W.E. He ran through D-X (H.H.H. & H.B.K.) and destroyed Cena for a bit, before W.W.E. dropped the ball and had him lose via a roll-up, then back-to-back in the match with Cena at the Rumble. (albeit, that match ended a lot better and more believeable)

Hence why he's a jobber to the stars. Umaga's overrated. He's good, and has a more exciting style than half of WWE's roster, but he's not the god people make him out to be.

When you pair the two up. Samoa Joe might have more technical skill than Umaga, but Umaga wins in every other catagory. Size w/ speed, (Umaga) Look, (Umaga) Character, (Umaga) mic skills, (Umaga, seriously) and finally.. the ability to advance himself.. Umaga. Why?

Character... eh. Maybe. He's wacky. There's a difference between being a character and having character. Joe's plain, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have character. Mic skills. No. Just no. Speed w/ size (wait, the other way round), definitely not, particularly when you throw agility into the mix.

Because what more can Joe possibly fricken do? Hes plain, short of becoming the next Dusty Rhodes (I'm waiting) he can't change into something more advanced. Umaga's character has room for development.

Joe's the next Dusty Rhodes? Because he's fat? That's where the similarities end. Apples and oranges right there. What room does Umaga's character have for development? Seriously, pitch me a few ideas. 'Cos, y'know, Kane's character had room for development too.

 

[Jappa121]

Samoa Joe is about 35% better than umaga, They are both Impressive wrestlers for

their size, The only think Umaga has over Joe is that he has his monster gimmick, but

when it comes down to it Ive seen Joe do some amazing things, most of umagas

impressiveness comes from his strength while Joe is quick for his size, But like I said the

difference in there skill levels are marginal at best but Id say Joe wins

 

[Mr Wrestlemania]

Seriously though. I remeber when The ol boy Umaga first debuted, and smarkz called him a "Samoa Joe knockoff".

Idiots.

Joe has an absolute shit look, is laborious on the mic (from what ive heard) and has the charisma of a tree stump.

Umaga on the other hand, Has an awesome look, loads of charisma, and sells like none other. He is so fucking athletic, he could probably pull off the flippy kicky shit that Joe does, but he isnt booked that way.

Selling-Umaga
Charisma- Umaga
Look- Umaga
Overall marketability- Umaga

Come one come all with rebuttals. I shall throw you all asunder.

Samoa Joe knockoff? That's pretty harsh, but I agree. It's false. I do see Umaga as the more athletic of the two, especially when I look at matches with Umaga from a couple of years ago and realized he's dropped quite a bit of weight. His look is interesting and fits with his heritage/gimmick quite well. I've always looked at Samoa Joe as Hawaii Joe because of the generic, California surfer guy look with his hairstyle and shell necklace, etc. I think both are pretty decent performers, but Umaga stays in character perfectly throughout matches. He's booked to be a fighting savage and he sells it well. I don't think I've ever seen him look tired during a match. He keeps his energy level throughout, whereas Joe is tends to look labored at times. I think it all comes down to promos in the end, and I've heard more than a few of Joe's promos and I'm hardpressed to say that there aren't many performers out there who can cut a more robotic, obviously rehearsed promo than Samoa Joe. I give Umaga the edge.

 

[shaunbaby]

the people tthat are calling Joe a Umaga rip-off are either stupid or have no memory, Joe came along before umaga, they both had similar gimmicks, they both were samoan bas assess who went through anyone that was put in front of them.

Joe is a WAYYYYYY better athlete than umaga, joe can go to the top rope, kick to the top rope, and fly over the top rope. umaga goes to the second rope for a splash and thats about as good as it gets.

people on here are also saying Joe is boring, how bad must he be if umaga is more entertaining? the stupid open legged walk to the ring, the stomping to get into the ring, the struggle to fit his belly between the ropes, then the scream and arm wave, before watching him do the same moves he has done since he came to RAW. Id rather watch a diva's match than an umaga match ( unless its San-a-tino Marella tearing him apart).

lol about the character jibes as well, what else can be done with umaga except repackaging him? Joe could go anywhere with his.

 

[THE Madcap]

I'm pretty torn on this one I must admit...

Joe - One of the most athletic wrestlers in TNA, and him being billed at 280lbs+ but being able to the shit he does, the kicks, the highflying offense etc is testament to his worth to TNA. I however, do not believe he is 280lbs. When I met him, he looked like an "average Joe". Take a look at this pic of me and Joe if you will

does he (bearing in mind I am 235lbs) look like a 280lb monster? Also, Joe bores the shit out of me when he talks, he's truly awful on the mic and his backstage promos are nothing short of dire.

Umaga on the other hand... I hated his gimmick at the beginning, to me he wasn't credible as a monster, but he massively grew on me. He's had some great matches, sells fantastically and for his size is an amazing athlete. Watch his match with Jeff Hardy from last year's 'Bash, where he kills hardy with 3 consecutive moves and you'll agree he's a credible force. Umaga does need a mouthpiece though, having a character who can't speak English is pointless without a manager to put him over. I was hoping he would be hooked up with Armando again for a renewed push, but this is yet to happen.

 

[Kfabe]

Seriously though. I remeber when The ol boy Umaga first debuted, and smarkz called him a "Samoa Joe knockoff".

Nah, I don't think he's a Joe rip off either. He is a character WWE made up. However it was SAMOA JOE who they headhunted for the role first. Umaga was given it as second choice. What does that say...? That say's WWE think Joe is the better of the two so the argument is pretty much squashed right there.

Idiots.

I agree, most smarks ARE idiots... especially the WWE fan boy ones who are blinkered by the success of 98-2003.

Joe has an absolute shit look, is laborious on the mic (from what ive heard)

AHHHHHH... the key word: "HEARD."
How do you justify an argument if you don't know anything about the topic?
If you don't watch TNA and have no recollection of any of Joes matches or spots, then how can you judge?
I tell you what, from what I've heard Ted Dibiase Jnr is a crappy wrestler and has no mic skills or charisma... but that's NOT what I'm saying because until I see that for myself how can I judge him? And by the way, watching one match doesn't give a fair insight into the skill etc of a wrestler. What if they are having an off day when you coincidentally choose to watch that single time? Even the greats like Savage, Flair, Dynamite, Guerrero etc had their fair share of off days...

and has the charisma of a tree stump.

Hmmmm. I can't recall anybody complaining when Benoit won the title (as previously stated). As a matter of fact, one of WWE's top guys (and smark favorite): Randy Orton has the charisma of a tree stump. Even Jerico highlighted that on his debut back in WWE lol.
But that's alright because he's not in TNA eh?

Umaga on the other hand, Has an awesome look,

Umaga also has a better look than the late great Mr Perfect yet I know who I would rather watch, and I know who is the better of the two. Joe's look really isn't an issue, people only bring it up because they are short on things to badmouth him on.

loads of charisma,

No, you can't judge charisma by just looking at somebody. Charisma comes across through communication.... and Umaga doesn't do that.

and sells like none other.

Sorry mate but that ain't true. Does he sell better than HBK? Angle? Orton? Jerico? HHH?
I always look at both sides of an argument and I will agree that Umaga sells better than Joe, but he is FAR from being great at it himself.

He is so fucking athletic, he could probably pull off the flippy kicky shit that Joe does, but he isnt booked that way.

Joe's so skilled, I'm sure he could pull off that crazy, belly flop, yokozuna ass shit that Umaga does (hell even WWE thought so and they know more than us), but he isn't booked that way.

Selling-Umaga
Charisma- Umaga
Look- Umaga
Overall marketability- Umaga

Selling - UMAGA
Look - UMAGA
Overall Marketability - UMAGA
Charisma - JOE
Wrestling Ability - JOE
Athleticism - JOE
Longevity - JOE
Character Progression Ability - JOE
Storyline Opportunity - JOE

Come one come all with rebuttals. I shall throw you all asunder.

Lol, you've laid down the challenge, I hope this is a good enough reply

 

[Slyfox696]

I've been saying this for 2 years now. Umaga is a far superior worker than Joe.

First off, Joe is a TERRIBLE actor. His mic skills are decent, nothing to write home about, but not bad either. But his acting ability is absolutely awful. And that's kind of detrimental when you're in the business of playing a character. Joe matches are tired predictable and average, at best. The only time Samoa Joe can have a good match is when he is the dominant wrestler and has someone who is a GOD at bumping for him. That's why Joe vs. Styles works so well, because AJ is a GOD at bumping. Put Joe against someone who isn't made to look completely inferior to him, and the match suffers tremendously before the opening bell.

Umaga, on the other hand, while never on the mic, plays his character EXTREMELY well. I mean, we all know Umaga is just a character, but he still makes you buy into his savage beast character. His offense matches his character, and his selling is near perfect for what his character would do. Umaga can make jobbers look great, and when put with an average or above worker, the match has potential for greatness. Just last year, Umaga had a Match of the Year with John Cena, and then made Bobby Lashley look like a million bucks at Wrestlemania.

Umaga is, at least, twice the wrestler Samoa Joe is, and maybe better.

 

[I_Like_All_Wrestling]

Wow. What a state wrestling is in when people are claiming that a guy who doesn't talk and has a thumb jab as a finishing move is better than Samoa Joe. Samoa Joe is an incredible wrestler. I will admit that Umaga is good on his feet for a bigger guy. But come on, in terms of actual wrestling ability Joe kills him. Joe beats him in mic skills, if only because he doesn't talk. I'll also admit Joe is not that great on the mic, but neither is Cena. Joe is faster and more agile than Umaga. Also, a man that cuts no promos and can't speak can't really beat someone on charisma. I believe that Joe will put on a better match than Umaga no matter who they are paired with. You may not like Joe but it's hard to believe that anyone think Umaga is the better wrestler. Come on now, let's not be ridiculous.

 

[Slyfox696]

Come on now, let's not be ridiculous.

I put this first, because this statement accurately sums up your post if you ask me.

Wow. What a state wrestling is in when people are claiming that a guy who doesn't talk and has a thumb jab as a finishing move is better than Samoa Joe.

What does EITHER of those things have to do with being a good wrestler.

Samoa Joe is an incredible wrestler.

No he's not, he's an average wrestler...at best.

But come on, in terms of actual wrestling ability Joe kills him.

Define that..."actual wrestling ability". Please tell me what that means.

Joe beats him in mic skills, if only because he doesn't talk.

Actually, I don't think Joe does. I think Umaga not talking is better than Joe talking.

I'll also admit Joe is not that great on the mic, but neither is Cena.

A) What does John Cena have to do with this topic?

B) John Cena is phenomenal on the mic.

Joe is faster and more agile than Umaga.

Umm, not really.

Also, a man that cuts no promos and can't speak can't really beat someone on charisma.

Promos and charisma are two ENTIRELY separate things.

I believe that Joe will put on a better match than Umaga no matter who they are paired with.

Then how come Umaga has been cranking out solid to good matches for a couple of years now, while Joe is main-eventing with below par matches?

You may not like Joe but it's hard to believe that anyone think Umaga is the better wrestler.

No, I find it harder to believe that any person could watch both wrestlers and think Joe is better.

 

[Monkey_Mania]

I agree. Umaga is leaps and bounds better than Samoa Joe. Umaga, even when he is jobbed out so much still has an aura about him that makes him feel invincible. On the other hand. Samoa Joe bores the hell out of me. The way he talks, the way he wrestles. It's all very boring. Umaga does not need to talk, he is a big fucking dude that says more than enough. He has a high impact offense which keeps me entertained. Umaga plays his charecter to the utmost potential. While Samoa Joe albeit he is talented, just doesn't seem to measure up.

 

[Draman27]

Honestly, this is very easy to dispute. While Joe is decent on the mic, nothing great...he is a better wrestler than Umaga. Don't get me wrong, I thought the Umaga/Cena and Umaga/Hardy series was great...Cena/Umaga at Royal Rumble I believe was IMO one of the top matches of the year. However, Joe in the indies was phenomenal. Anyone who has never watched Joe in the Indies, go watch the CM Punk/Joe series or Joe vs Kobashi. If you watch the Joe/Kobashi match and don't think Joe can wrestle, and or take a chop...you are crazy. Everyone has to remember, the wrestlers in TNA and WWE can not use a full move set. They can only use "non dangerous" maneuvers, and that sets them back. While I think Umaga is very very good, Joe is better.

 

[blair4107]

Umaga is better........... than the Great Khali, Mark Henry, Vladimir Koslov, Gene Snitsky, or any of the other wrestlers that are normally used in SQUASH matches against guys billed to be David against the almost always winning giants.

How can anyone say that a guy running around, babbling in gibberish, is better than Samoa Joe? Both are really pretty damn fat but Joe moves around a lot faster oh and I don't know I've never heard an Umaga chant but I've heard a hell of a lot of JOE'S GONNA KILL YOU chants.

I will admit that Ooou-mang-ga has greatly improved since his run as Jamal, HIS matches are completely predictable... oh I wonder who's going to win Umaga or insert wrestler such as Funaki, Shannon Moore, Domino, Super Crazy, etc?!

Oh and as for looks I'm sure there's a ton of Samoan Monsters out there with grills.

Now I will say that Joe is much better as the heel - less talking, more vicious. Personally I would say Umaga isn't even in Samoa Joe's league - back to mid-card for Umaga, where he belongs.

 

[Slyfox696]

However, Joe in the indies was phenomenal.

Oh god, gag me.

Anyone who has never watched Joe in the Indies, go watch the CM Punk/Joe series or Joe vs Kobashi. If you watch the Joe/Kobashi match and don't think Joe can wrestle, and or take a chop...you are crazy.

Punk vs. Joe is the most overrated series of matches in history. People all the time refer to that like it's the second coming of Flair vs. Steamboat, but I put it more on the line of Brock vs. Goldberg. And there were three of them.

Joe vs. Kobashi was an awful match. It was just a *****fied slap fest between grown men. There was no wrestling, no storytelling. It was just a "let's chop each other a million times, while the other person stands in the corner for no reason letting the first guy chop him". It was stupid and one of the worst excuses for wrestling ever.

Everyone has to remember, the wrestlers in TNA and WWE can not use a full move set. They can only use "non dangerous" maneuvers, and that sets them back. While I think Umaga is very very good, Joe is better.

A) Move set has NOTHING to do with quality wrestling.

B) TNA doesn't restrict wrestler's moves.

Umaga is better........... than the Great Khali, Mark Henry, Vladimir Koslov, Gene Snitsky, or any of the other wrestlers that are normally used in SQUASH matches against guys billed to be David against the almost always winning giants.

How can anyone say that a guy running around, babbling in gibberish, is better than Samoa Joe? Both are really pretty damn fat but Joe moves around a lot faster oh and I don't know I've never heard an Umaga chant but I've heard a hell of a lot of JOE'S GONNA KILL YOU chants.

I will admit that Ooou-mang-ga has greatly improved since his run as Jamal, HIS matches are completely predictable... oh I wonder who's going to win Umaga or insert wrestler such as Funaki, Shannon Moore, Domino, Super Crazy, etc?!

Oh and as for looks I'm sure there's a ton of Samoan Monsters out there with grills.

As garbage as your entire post is, this next thing is what I'm going to focus on.

Now I will say that Joe is much better as the heel - less talking, more vicious.

See, you ruined your entire argument with this statement. How is Samoa Joe better as the heel, when he's never been able to pull off a heel run? AJ Styles went heel and got booed routinely. Samoa Joe tried to go heel, and refused to adapt his style of wrestling, which meant that fans cheered him. Samoa Joe has NEVER been heel, because he's not good enough to do it.

Umaga, on the other hand, DOES play the heel role, and while there are periods where he begins to get cheers, he always finds a way to get those cheers back to boos. THATS what being a good wrestler does, and it only further proves that Umaga is better than Joe.

Personally I would say Umaga isn't even in Samoa Joe's league

I agree totally with this. He is way out of Joe's league. Joe can only hope to be as good as Umaga some day.

 

[simeon63]

Samoa Joe is pretty boring as Champion for TNA. He doesn't have the looks and charisma to be champ, in the WWE he would be no more the a mid card guy at the best.
This is another reason why TNA sucks so bad, they can't sell angles and they can't produce top notch match's. I feel bad for people like Booker T, Christian, and Curt Angle, some how TNA sold them on the fact that they are the next big federation. Now they have burned their bridges and are stuck on a dead end street with Samoa Joe.

 

[blair4107]

As garbage as your entire post is, this next thing is what I'm going to focus on.

See, you ruined your entire argument with this statement. How is Samoa Joe better as the heel, when he's never been able to pull off a heel run? AJ Styles went heel and got booed routinely. Samoa Joe tried to go heel, and refused to adapt his style of wrestling, which meant that fans cheered him. Samoa Joe has NEVER been heel, because he's not good enough to do it.

Umaga, on the other hand, DOES play the heel role, and while there are periods where he begins to get cheers, he always finds a way to get those cheers back to boos. THATS what being a good wrestler does, and it only further proves that Umaga is better than Joe.

I agree totally with this. He is way out of Joe's league. Joe can only hope to be as good as Umaga some day.

So you proved my argument wrong by saying it's trash, wow real in-depth there, Rainman. Umaga acts like a dog in the ring, yells in his fake-samoan language just like Khali's Hindi, pokes people with his taped up thumb OOOOOH, wow he could be the next...Rikishi! Umaga plays the heel because if he were a face he'd be in the ring being petted by Kelly Kelly and hiking his leg to pee on Santino. What's so cool about a guy that has NO mic skills, is the heel equivalent of Eugene, and was once in a duo called 3 Minute Warning? Everybody mark out for the tard-strength of Umaga.

 

[Slyfox696]

So you proved my argument wrong by saying it's trash, wow real in-depth there,

No, I proved your argument wrong by focusing on one part of your post which proved my point so well I didn't even need to talk about the rest.

Umaga acts like a dog in the ring, yells in his fake-samoan language just like Khali's Hindi, pokes people with his taped up thumb OOOOOH, wow he could be the next...Rikishi!

Yes, that's called "playing a character". Maybe you've heard of it? It's quite common in professional wrestling. Ever heard of The Undertaker? Yeah, he's not really dead, he just plays the character.

Umaga plays the heel because if he were a face he'd be in the ring being petted by Kelly Kelly and hiking his leg to pee on Santino.

No, he plays the heel because a monster character works better as heel. And since professional wrestling draws on the back of main-eventers, particularly face main-eventers vanquishing evil, it only makes sense to have a monster bad guy for the face to defeat.

It's classic Good Guy beating Bad Guy, and monsters almost always play the bad guy.

What's so cool about a guy that has NO mic skills, is the heel equivalent of Eugene, and was once in a duo called 3 Minute Warning

How about his incredible in-ring ability, his talent in making his character seem as real as one could ever do, and the fact he's been in many many good matches with various different wrestlers?

 

[blair4107]

Yes, that's called "playing a character". Maybe you've heard of it? It's quite common in professional wrestling. Ever heard of The Undertaker? Yeah, he's not really dead, he just plays the character.

No, he plays the heel because a monster character works better as heel. And since professional wrestling draws on the back of main-eventers, particularly face main-eventers vanquishing evil, it only makes sense to have a monster bad guy for the face to defeat.

It's classic Good Guy beating Bad Guy, and monsters almost always play the bad guy.

I understand where you're coming from I just don't feel like characterless, (by characterless I mean no voice; needs a mouthpiece; seemingly doesn't make his own decisions) instinctual, animals aren't your only choice for strong heels. Yes, monsters work better as heels than faces because of, as I mentioned before David vs. Goliath but it builds upon terrible squash matches that do nothing more than fill in a spot.

How about his incredible in-ring ability, his talent in making his character seem as real as one could ever do, and the fact he's been in many many good matches with various different wrestlers?

I do not recognize this incredible in-ring ability, yes he is an excellent monster for what he is, but compared to other wrestlers not being billed as monsters I'd say he's average. I will say that my opinion could be changed if it wasn't "WWE Style" but I can't say that it would because I can't even remember him as Ekmo in TNA.

I commend you on your ability to voice your opinions clearly and intelligently but I just don't agree with you on the outcome.
- I suppose I'm biased anyway since I'm not a fan of most "monsters" and I prefer intelligent, clever, egotistical, sneaky, cheating heels. I just find that there's more to them, more to their psyche to believe.