WWE-Wrestling VS Promo/Skit

[milkman12]

I recently listened to an episode of Cheap Heat podcast (ESPN) and they brought up a point i think is extremely valid and that the IWC often forgets.

The basic premise was that most casual fans, which like it or not make up a much bigger base of WWE viewership and the overall market tend to really not care as much about the actual wrestling matches on Raw, Smackdown, but instead really watch for the "Soap Opera" type drama which includes conflict, promo's and things of that nature.

Therefore, wrestling purists often tend to not understand why certain wrestlers do not get pushes even if they are extremely skilled, and why so much of Raw is taken up with everything except actual in the ring wrestling matches that last a good while and have no run-ins, interruptions, etc.

My question is do you agree with that premise overall, and how do you feel about the WWE in general often taking less talented wrestlers who are better with looks, on the mic, charisma, etc to tend to that demographic of fans who hardly care for actual " 5 star matches" but would much rather see a Soap Opera type show in front of them. Lastly, do you feel that has always been the case?

 

[BestWrestlingOpinions]

Really good topic, I was actually thinking of making this one recently.

As you said, there are the fans that care about what happens inside the ring, wrestling-wise, there are those who care about the soap opera, the drama etc, and of course, there are those who care about both; in-ring performances and storylines.

If you see and read on the internet, most of the time, the discussions are not about how much should play out, who should be pushed purely based on his in-ring skills etc, but mostly about how the storylines should go. To me, the best fan is the one who wants both wrestling and entertainment. This is why many flip-flop promotions without storylines don't break out. They have great in ring talent, with amazing performances, but it basically is amazing the first 3 times you see it. After that, it becomes the same thing and isn't as exciting anymore and people realize that there are so many people out there that can do the flip flops, which is exactly why the story telling etc comes into play, when you think about how a wrestling company can go forward.

When I started watching pro wrestling for the first time, I remember seeing Rey Mysterio and I thought oh my god this guy is from another planet. I also saw big guys fighting and since I didn't know at that time it was staged, I thought it was amazing to see the big guys fight and Rey doing his high flying. Soon after I realized that it was staged and I also saw a lot of other guys doing high flying etc, and it didn't have the same appeal to me as it first did. That's why I can't get into guys like Rey Mysterio, Sin Cara, Even Bourne etc anymore, or big but generic guys like Big Show, Kane etc.

Of course, there are always exceptions. Lesnar, HHH, Batista, Bryan, Punk etc are all exceptions, because I enjoy watching these guys. Why? Because they have a story to tell and are not just big guys fighting ot flip-flop high flyers. They are just as good in the ring as they are able to tell a story. I think that's where the problem really lies. People know that what happens purely in the ring isn't "real" and therefore are more intrigued by the general story, the promos etc and sometimes, I am also heading in that direction. Good story telling is necessary when you want to create a huge moment. Look at Bryan's victory at WM30 or Punk's victory at MitB 2011. Great stories both times, which culminated in some epic moments.

There goes my rightful defence to those who like soap opera. Since it isn't real fighting, you need to look at the things that make these things real, and those are promos, the hate between the two opponents etc. With that said, it's time to defence those who want the in-ring performance.

As I said, most of the time, many things we see being done are already seen before, especially in the WWE. This takes away some excitement. BUT, no matter how good story telling is, if the actualy bout isn't exciting, then it isn't truly an awesome feud. Do you think that Punk vs Cena / Summer of Punk would be so great, if the actual match between the two wasn't a masterpiece? The answer is obviously no. The match delivered to the point that it made the fans get excited. Same for Bryan vs Cena at Summerslam 2013, Bryan's WM30 matches and of course the Shield vs the Wyatts. The last match is basically the epitome of amazing story telling and amazing match, and this is why it was praised so much.

To the point of in-ring performance is where the wrestlers can't do all by themselves, but they need some crowd reaction. Like it or not, the guys in the ring do what they do for the money and for the fans, so they fans need to interact more with chants etc. The more the fans make it seem realistic by chanting and giving that big fight feel, the better the match itself becomes, even if it would otherwise not be as good. Take for example Punk vs Rock, Royal Rumble 2013. It wasn't a wrestling masterpiece, but the atmosphere alone made that match feel big. See Wyatts vs the Shield. The fans were chanting this is awesome, before the Wyatts even entered the ring.

To cap it all off, Both story telling and in-ring action is required for a segment/feud to be considered good and that's what most smart fans want to see. The "wrestlemania-only" fans don't see flip flops or big guys go at it all the time, that is why they get intrigued by Cena vs Rock. But, most of the time, the arenas are filled by fans who care more about the in-ring product (along with the story telling of course). That's why a memorable moment is mostly created because of an amazing match with crowd interaction, rather than just some promo.

It's really hard to say everything I have in my mind, but I think you kinda get a taste of how I feel about this thing.

 

[ddn2488]

I agree with it partly because it just depends on what is going on. I get why wwe want to push the people with better mic skills because nobody wants a champion that's comes out and is boring in the mic. I mean look how punk got over, sure he is good in the ring but he has always been. When he dropped his "pipebomb" is when he got popular. But you do need to be talented in the ring because that is very important too obviously, plus if you are good in the ring but bad on the mic then you can always get a good manger like Paul heyman to talk for you. I like wrestling but I think you need to have storylines and good promos to get you into the match and then let the match beach it up. I think you kind of need to even out the wrestling and the promos

 

[George Steele's Barber]

I think most fans, even the ones who claim to be purists understand that WWE gets better results from a mix of drama, humor, and wrestling. They just don't like it.

And this is the Internet, so it's just a place for people to complain.

And watch porn.

And to get jealous of their friends and family on social media.

And to check that they still have that same pathetically small amount of money in the bank they had 45 minutes ago.

And to delete spam emails from Adriana who saw your cute pic on Facebook.

And to play games that never bring more than an ouncr of fulfillment.

But mostly to watch porn.

 

[Ace Amoeba]

I very much compare the WWE's product with that of MTV. MTV used to be about music videos whereas it eventually morphed into being about mostly reality TV shows. There were many who complained that MTV ought to be about it's original format and minimize actual shows. However the music videos suffered from poor viewership in relation to shows like The Real World, The Osbournes etc.

The WWE has this same issue. While viewers beg for more wrestling matches, hte higher rated segments are the skits. Someone flipping through the channels is more likely to stop and watch a skit than actual wrestling. Pay-Per-Views are different, WWE has already got your money so they can focus more on the wrestling. The pay-per-views are sold on the wrestling matches themselves and those ordering them are true fans that actually want to see matches.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

I think most fans, even the ones who claim to be purists understand that WWE gets better results from a mix of drama, humor, and wrestling. They just don't like it.

Yeah, pretty much. For me personally, I don't mind a little bit of humor tossed into the format as long as it isn't the focal point. When the stuff with Hornswoggle as Vince's son, D-Generation X running around like middle age frat boys trying to reclaim their youth with Hornswoggle as their mascot, ridiculous stuff like the "little people's court" segment, Vince generally looking like a fool while thinking he's hip or cool when dancing, etc., it's pretty awful because a ton of time is devoted to it.

As far as the drama goes, wrestling drama will always be kind of tongue in cheek because you have real people portraying fictional personas that are pretending to be real people who engage in fictional feuds and fights against each other playing out live each week. Knowing all that, if you expect to find some level of deep sophistication, then you shouldn't be watching pro wrestling because you're not gonna find it. You can still find interesting characters to root for and there are always certain elements of storylines that connect with people even in a basic way. For instance, look at Daniel Bryan being talked down to by a woman that was born with a silver spoon in her mouth and the silver knife & fork in her crack. This woman that's never had to work or struggle for anything in her life calls him a "B+ Player", tells him that he's not "good enough" because she and those like her say so. To one degree or another, everybody knows what it's like to be told that you're not good enough for some reason, that you don't have what it takes to accomplish your goals.

As far as wrestling action goes, frankly, you need it. Back in 2009, most of Raw revolved around skits and it was an absolutely abysmal time. In a 2 hour show, there'd be times in which you'd have less than 15 minutes of wrestling in total. I like the fact that there's more wrestling content now on Raw and SD! frankly. If I watch a pro wrestling show, then I want to see some quality pro wrestling action. It's as much a part of what goes on as the promos and the storylines. As with everything else, some will matter more than and will be better than others as that's just how it is. Would you rather see Dean Ambrose & Seth Rollins in the middle of something or the "drama" of the Fandango love triangle with Layla & Summer Rae?

As far as WWE often taking "less talented" wrestlers, I'm not exactly sure what that means. Is someone a better professional wrestler just because he can move like greased lightning while flipping & flying about, but they can't interact with fans? Is someone a better professional wrestler if they're able to do every single submission hold & high spot you can name, yet has the personality of curdled milk? It's been said in any number of threads by lotsa folks that a wrestler has to be able to connect with fans in a way that makes them want to see him or her do what they do. If they can't do that, if they can't make fans interested enough to spend their money & time watching him or her, then what does it really matter how athletic, technically sound, good looking & chiseled they are.

 

[Dagger Dias]

Both are important although I see the promos as being slightly more important than the wrestling itself. You need to be able to work a match and you need to be able to make the fans care about your character whether it be through comedy, face actions, or heel actions. Someone could be as gifted in the ring as Bret Hart in his prime, but if they are boring on the mic and have nothing to set that apart from the others gimmick-wise, then why would people care to see them win a match or buy their merchandise? WWE is a show when it comes down to it. A wrestling show, yes, but the non-wrestling side is just as crucial, sometimes more important, than the actual wrestling portion of the show. That justifies pushing wrestlers who might not be as talented in the ring. If they are making the fans want to pay money to see a match or buy a shirt, then they will get a push over someone who can't get a reaction out of the fans despite how good of a true wrestler he or she may be.