If WWE's worried about starpower then they should fucking commit to some pushes and rather than pussy out half way through. Barrett could and should have been made a star at some point in the last two years, but instead they dithered and aborted his pushes and left him with nothing. Same story with several other guys but WWE don't do a fucking thing about it until they realise that "shit we've only got three stars". And it's not just a problem at the mid-top of the card either. WWE Should be using their midcard champs to help establish the guys like Justin Gabriel who doesn't even need to beat Cody. A 10 minute match on PPV would do wonders for him, regardless of the result. But Rhodes is relavent but does nothing with the IC title and Swagger's irrelevant and doing nothing with it. I could justify WWE's treatment of Ryder (because shit, if he's on top he's got no material and then he's screwed) but the situation of them having no stars is noone's fault but theirs.
WWE Worried About Lack Of Star Power
- Thread starter klunderbunker
- Start date
George Steele's Barber
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I think people are getting carried away in this thread.
The WWE put out a pretty good product in 2011 and has been very good in 2012. I think their biggest problem is finding guys with a combination of look, personality and charisma. Too many Zigglers, Kofis and Dibiases. They need to find some guys that basically exude confidence. Guys who can go into a bar and get any pussy they want or have a the room full of people hanging on their every word. Unfortunately too often being large, athletic and good looking means that you never have to develop an actual personality.
Personality sells to the casual audience. Midcard feuds and extended pushes are quickly forgotten.
The WWE put out a pretty good product in 2011 and has been very good in 2012. I think their biggest problem is finding guys with a combination of look, personality and charisma. Too many Zigglers, Kofis and Dibiases. They need to find some guys that basically exude confidence. Guys who can go into a bar and get any pussy they want or have a the room full of people hanging on their every word. Unfortunately too often being large, athletic and good looking means that you never have to develop an actual personality.
Personality sells to the casual audience. Midcard feuds and extended pushes are quickly forgotten.
It's the IWC, the planet's biggest collection of dumbasses. What do you expect?
I've enjoyed WWE this year too, but I'm not blind to the problems it has, and the reasons why. WWE has a stacked roster. You could pretty much pair any two guys and have a decent match. However, it takes more than skill to draw, and that's what WWE's concerned about. WWE has nothing if Cena and Punk (and to a lesser extent Orton) aren't there. And the reason for that is they've been neglecting to build people up and give them a chance to show that they can hang with the big boys and that you should watch them and care about them.
And people tend to develop a personality when they're given more time, which happens when... you guessed it they're put in feuds and get pushed. Shocking.
It's Hogan Syndrome 2.0. I'm not the sort that despises Cena utterly because he's a PG icon or whatever, but facts are facts. The reason the WWE had a surplus of star talent in that era is because they had a few top faces and a few top heels that they could insert into the main event, and when the top ones weren't feuding for the title, they were doing something else interesting. People shared time at the top. Contrast with Hogan's era, when he was the only real game in town. Sure, you had Savage and Warrior, but there's no doubt who was the only guy, and they showed it because Hogan never left the main event. The same thing's happened with Cena. It's not his fault, it's just poor booking. If Batista or Jeff Hardy or Rey Mysterio had ever been allowed to really be the face of Raw for a few months, it would be a different story. And with the surplus of main event faces that resulted, main event heels would follow proportionally. Heels and faces feed off each other - you need faces to get heels over, and vice versa. With only one mega face, there could only really be one mega heel, and a bunch of scrubs who spent time in the main event but never stuck. Cena's mega heel was of course Randy Orton, who they had to turn face because they had no other legitimate options. In short, the WWE doesn't have many stars because they never booked like they were out to create stars. They did the same thing they did when Hogan was around, and yes, it will probably cost them the same it did then.
Problem is fans think their favourites are buried every time they lose, and rant about it on the internet or to their fellow fans. Even when the losses were meant to push the wrestler or allow the wrestler to develop personality from losing. Silly gimmicks = buried. Losing in competitive matches = buried. Silly soap opera storyline = buried. Perception become reality and now wrestling companies has only one way to push stars and that is for them to win matches. All the new stars are similar because the push to become stars are all the same and nobody stand out. Santino > all of them.
I like what they are doing with Doplh Ziggler for the past year, allowing him to lose in great matches and building him up and exposing him to the big stage without letting him have to carry the burden of winning. I don't know about others but I feel losing in matches help build personality in wrestler's character much more than winning, with the whole overcomming adversity thing.
I like what they are doing with Doplh Ziggler for the past year, allowing him to lose in great matches and building him up and exposing him to the big stage without letting him have to carry the burden of winning. I don't know about others but I feel losing in matches help build personality in wrestler's character much more than winning, with the whole overcomming adversity thing.
George Steele's Barber
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Yeah, but a lot of the guys that are posting in this thread are some of the people with the highest wrestling IQ around. I expected more perspective and less "here are all the things WWE is doing wrong".
I can't argue with this, partially because I agree but mostly because you would school me on match quality.
This is where we differ. I don't think they have found the right guys. I know it takes time to develop a talent but every guy has a ceiling and there are not many in WWE whose ceiling looks all that high. I don't blame that on experience or storyline I just blame it on natural personality and look.
WWE has a ton of hours of programming to put together. Cena, Punk and Orton are not filling all of that time. Guys have been given a ton of time and chances over the past couple of years. Either a guy has "It" to be a star or they don't. They lack the "It" guys. Sheamus has some potential. Barrett can be a great heel. Miz needs help to be a convincing competitor. Others are past their prime or I don't see much hope for them.
This is kind of off the wall but I wonder if this is how Vince wants it. Let WWE be the draw and the wrestlers to just be interchangeable pieces. From a business perspective it is a more conservative strategy that keeps labor costs and risk down. Nah! Vince wants to make as much money as possible.
A lot of decent answers, many of which relate to the real problem, but I haven't seen anyone nail it down directly. Then again, I only skimmed through the other posts.
The problem is too much programming. When you're running over 200 hours of original programming every year just on free TV, and then another 50 or so hours of original programming on PPV, you have to find things to sell people on.
So you try build up a worker. Eventually this worker has to beat someone important, or he'll never be taken seriously. So Main-Eventer A beats Main-Eventer B, but then there's someone else out there who needs to be taken seriously. So Main-Eventer C beats Main-Eventer A. But you don't want to lose the drawing power from Main-Eventer B, so Main-Eventer B beats Main-Eventer C, and what do you have? Parity...mediocrity. You don't have anyone who is just special, you just have a bunch of guys who are basically as good as others.
When the wrestling promotions were running only one TV show a week, you could spread things out more, and you didn't always have to have your main-eventers running into each other. Hell, Steve Austin got mega over by feuding with a departing Bret Hart and Vince McMahon, who didn't need to go over any main-eventers to be over with the crowd.
But look at what CM Punk has done just in the last year. He's feuded with Orton, Mysterio, Cena, Triple H, Del Rio, Miz, and now Jericho...in less than 12 months he's literally feuded with just about every major regular main-eventer in the WWE. There's no new feuds to be had (especially if Jericho hadn't returned) and no excitement to be created. You can't build new superstars without having exciting encounters for them.
So after Punk has his run, he'll go back to putting some new flavor of the month over, further reducing the power his star could have, and soon he'll be just like everyone else. The only guy in the current era who has not had his star power erode has been Cena. Well, and Orton, because he hasn't been made to lose to anyone.
The problem with their star power is that their stars are overexposed. Just like Brock Lesnar would no longer draw 1 million PPV buys for a UFC card because he's looked bad in his last several fights, wrestling fans aren't going to be drawn to wrestlers who are no better than anyone else. There's a reason fans are so excited for Cena vs. Rock, and the WWE expects a good buyrate...because it's something we haven't seen before, and it's between two guys who are clearly head and shoulders above everyone else.
The problem is too much programming. When you're running over 200 hours of original programming every year just on free TV, and then another 50 or so hours of original programming on PPV, you have to find things to sell people on.
So you try build up a worker. Eventually this worker has to beat someone important, or he'll never be taken seriously. So Main-Eventer A beats Main-Eventer B, but then there's someone else out there who needs to be taken seriously. So Main-Eventer C beats Main-Eventer A. But you don't want to lose the drawing power from Main-Eventer B, so Main-Eventer B beats Main-Eventer C, and what do you have? Parity...mediocrity. You don't have anyone who is just special, you just have a bunch of guys who are basically as good as others.
When the wrestling promotions were running only one TV show a week, you could spread things out more, and you didn't always have to have your main-eventers running into each other. Hell, Steve Austin got mega over by feuding with a departing Bret Hart and Vince McMahon, who didn't need to go over any main-eventers to be over with the crowd.
But look at what CM Punk has done just in the last year. He's feuded with Orton, Mysterio, Cena, Triple H, Del Rio, Miz, and now Jericho...in less than 12 months he's literally feuded with just about every major regular main-eventer in the WWE. There's no new feuds to be had (especially if Jericho hadn't returned) and no excitement to be created. You can't build new superstars without having exciting encounters for them.
So after Punk has his run, he'll go back to putting some new flavor of the month over, further reducing the power his star could have, and soon he'll be just like everyone else. The only guy in the current era who has not had his star power erode has been Cena. Well, and Orton, because he hasn't been made to lose to anyone.
The problem with their star power is that their stars are overexposed. Just like Brock Lesnar would no longer draw 1 million PPV buys for a UFC card because he's looked bad in his last several fights, wrestling fans aren't going to be drawn to wrestlers who are no better than anyone else. There's a reason fans are so excited for Cena vs. Rock, and the WWE expects a good buyrate...because it's something we haven't seen before, and it's between two guys who are clearly head and shoulders above everyone else.
Having a high wrestling IQ is equivalent to winning a tallest midget competition. But then, I'm one of those "self loathing IWC" stereotypes.
WWE has some guys who could and should be at a higher level than they are. Barrett should be an established Main Eventer, for example. But time after time he gets his momentum stopped dead. He should have been made by Nexus, but WWE *****ed out. He should have been a big deal on SD, but WWE *****ed out, lumbered him with the Corre and gave them absolutely no direction. The Barrett Barrage should have taken him into title contention, but WWE *****ed out again so he's no better off afterwards than he was before. Swagger shouldn't be on Superstars every week, especially given he's a champion but nope. Gabriel has been given three week pushes on two separate occasions and then dropped down to Superstars with no followup. Yes, not every guy should be a Main Eventer, but WWE refusing to commit to pushing new tallent has left them in a spot where the roster's phenominally skilled but posessing no stars.
And just as many haven't. I'm not one who says "push wrestler X" a lot, but you're blind if you can't see that WWE has hamstrung guys, aborted angles and refused to give the ball to people. Look at Rhodes and Gabriel, up until recently Rhodes seemed destined for a match with his brother. Not any more, leaving him with nothing except to be a filler in the Chamber, he was having a minifeud with Gabriel, and if that had been followed up at the Rumble instead of having a divas match Gabriel could have been a made man. He'd have lost but giving him the platform to show what he can do when people are paying attention (like they don't to NXT or Superstars) he'd have become a fixture in the midcard. Which is a step or two up from "Main Eventing NXT with Derek Bateman".
The "It" factor usually gets ignored until it's staring you right in the face. Look at Steve Austin, fired from WCW for not having it, hired by WWE as a mechanic and only by a freak set of circumstances did "It" manifest itself. Same with Rocky Maivia, same with John Cena (who was on the chopping block until Steph decided "fuck it freestyle on your opponents"). Even if most guys lack the "It" factor, having guys that the fans can connect to, or know will put on a good match is a good thing. And that'll only happen when they are given time to perform, a platform to perform on, and a direction from Creative so that they don't fall off the radar a week later.
I doubt it. WWE's a brand, it needs stars to represent that brand.
Big Nick Dudley
Nick
Wrestling peaked years ago. I think that's the problem.
Steve Austin wasn't quite Hulk Hogan, and John Cena isn't Steve Austin. Bret and Shawn weren't close to any of them, and neither was The Rock (constantly played #2 to Austin, even when Austin was injured). It's hard to get guys over on a large scale when people no longer care. Either way, I don't think wrestling is dying, but I don't expect some massive jump in viewership at any point in the near future, if ever. You would need someone like Austin or Hogan to walk through the door, and I can't say I see that happening (see Brain's post).
Steve Austin wasn't quite Hulk Hogan, and John Cena isn't Steve Austin. Bret and Shawn weren't close to any of them, and neither was The Rock (constantly played #2 to Austin, even when Austin was injured). It's hard to get guys over on a large scale when people no longer care. Either way, I don't think wrestling is dying, but I don't expect some massive jump in viewership at any point in the near future, if ever. You would need someone like Austin or Hogan to walk through the door, and I can't say I see that happening (see Brain's post).
DirtyJosé
Best angle of all: retirement
¡Roján!;3720332 said:
Did I claim to? Nope. Sorry. Wrong guy.
However, you DID claim that NO ONE cared about guys like Sheamus, and the NO ONE bought a PPV because of him. I'm just kindly pointing out to you that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
With the proper build up, any match can draw people in. Del Rio and Miz and others like them catch a bum rep for someone else dropping the ball. I happen to enjoy both performers as well, and I just want to see them used wisely and not just used up and forgotten about.
Oh my, look who's got a back bone now. Not going to go with your usual "play it dumb and non-sequitur" response to getting called out for being wrong? My, how the days fly; you're all grown up already.
Oh really? I'd love to see you back that up. Mind you, the lowest buyrates the WWE has seen so far have been Vengeance (with a Cena main event) at 130,000 buys and the ill-fated ECW December to Dismember with even less buys than that. TLC 2011 pulled in 182,000 buys. Not a bank breaker, but far from a back breaker.
Neither. I suggest you start knowing what the fuck you're talking about before opening your mouth. Come back to me when you've finally got a clue, chump.
George Steele's Barber
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Agree, but I think Barrett's time will come around and it should last. Not a top draw face but a competent Main Event heel. Christian and Henry have been as much responsible for Barrett being held back as anything.
I see very little with Swagger. He's a big dude, fine in the ring, with little personality, no charisma and horrible on the mic. His ceiling is "Iron" Mike Sharpe.
Gabriel is fine, he could certainly replace a few of the guys in the midcard but he needs someone to represent him. Either a manager or better yet a tag team partner who can elicit more emotion out of the office. His ceiling is Jeff Hardy - a lot of potential but it is going to take a long time to get there.
Don't forget though, millions watch Raw and SD. About two to three hundred thousand watch PPVs. PPVs don't necessarily make guys.
I see it to and I don't like WWE dropping things either but I think talent is a bigger problem.
Screw it, the main problem is lack of steroids, pain killers and I think most of these guys had decent childhoods. There's no room in professional wrestling for strong mental health and a clean lifestyle.
It's funny....you would have thought the opposite would have happened. WWE buying out WCW, reeling in their stars. Then ECW going under and the WWE getting all of their top guys. Now you have one big promotion with unlimited amount of feuds, with unlimited amount of superstars......And.....nothing.
What happened? The main eventers left. Hogan, Flair, Piper, Hart, Savage...they were already done (Or at least should have been. Some should have left a decade earlier but we won't get into that.)
Rock, Austin, Lesnar, Angle. One went to Hollywood. One left because of injury. One left because he hated the business, and the other left because he hated the grind of the WWE schedule. In that order.
HBK, HHH, Undertaker. Only 2 left and after April 1st we could see the end.
You look at these superstars I listed and they all have their own unique identity. That's what makes each one so special. That's what made their companies they worked for successful. People loved the characters because each one was different.
That's the main problem today. Take a close look. What is the difference between Miz, Rhodes, Riley, Christian, Morrison, DiBiase, etc? They all have this same bullshit persona with generic crappy entrance music. There's no real character/gimmick.
Punk and Cena can't do it all by themselves. You look at Orton and he's borderline. It's like he's trying too hard.
This is easy for me to say because I was spoiled by growing up and watching the golden era of professional wrestling, but damn.....at least TRY. The WWE needs to focus on creativity....not throw a guy out there and slap him with a catchphrase, with the same look, same stupid haircut and cheesy new-age shit for entrance music.
The territories are gone but they've been gone for a long time. With the amount of house shows Vince puts on that in itself is more than enough time to develop young stars....they (WWE) are just going about it all wrong.
Keys to success:
1.) Focus on WRESTLING. When it all comes down to it the fans want to see action. The near falls, the great moves, the risks.....the storylines are what make it even better. The wrestling isn't what makes the storylines better.
2.) Fewer titles. Someone posted earlier about how guys are just thrown in the main event scene after a few months and shoved down our throats. Well he's right. They had the IC title there for a reason in the 80's....to give the mid carders something to work towards. Once you get that you're on your way. Having less titles would make winning the mid-card title a hell of alot more meaningful.
3.) Easy as a fan to say: LESS PPV's. But Vince is the business man and I'm not....so I'll keep my mouth shut. But you can only have the same match time and time again before it gets REALLY old.
4.) Building feuds. The PPV should be the payoff....not a Monday night Raw. Then what the hell is the point of buying the PPV? Because you're putting them in a cell this time? Or perhaps THIS match will be a ladder or ambulance match, so this is a MUST SEE. Give me a break.
5.) If the WWE does all this...then the last thing I ask is a makeover. The announce position, the titan tron, the ramp....do away with it or make it better. At least make a change so it'll trick my mind into thinking it's watching a different/better product.
What happened? The main eventers left. Hogan, Flair, Piper, Hart, Savage...they were already done (Or at least should have been. Some should have left a decade earlier but we won't get into that.)
Rock, Austin, Lesnar, Angle. One went to Hollywood. One left because of injury. One left because he hated the business, and the other left because he hated the grind of the WWE schedule. In that order.
HBK, HHH, Undertaker. Only 2 left and after April 1st we could see the end.
You look at these superstars I listed and they all have their own unique identity. That's what makes each one so special. That's what made their companies they worked for successful. People loved the characters because each one was different.
That's the main problem today. Take a close look. What is the difference between Miz, Rhodes, Riley, Christian, Morrison, DiBiase, etc? They all have this same bullshit persona with generic crappy entrance music. There's no real character/gimmick.
Punk and Cena can't do it all by themselves. You look at Orton and he's borderline. It's like he's trying too hard.
This is easy for me to say because I was spoiled by growing up and watching the golden era of professional wrestling, but damn.....at least TRY. The WWE needs to focus on creativity....not throw a guy out there and slap him with a catchphrase, with the same look, same stupid haircut and cheesy new-age shit for entrance music.
The territories are gone but they've been gone for a long time. With the amount of house shows Vince puts on that in itself is more than enough time to develop young stars....they (WWE) are just going about it all wrong.
Keys to success:
1.) Focus on WRESTLING. When it all comes down to it the fans want to see action. The near falls, the great moves, the risks.....the storylines are what make it even better. The wrestling isn't what makes the storylines better.
2.) Fewer titles. Someone posted earlier about how guys are just thrown in the main event scene after a few months and shoved down our throats. Well he's right. They had the IC title there for a reason in the 80's....to give the mid carders something to work towards. Once you get that you're on your way. Having less titles would make winning the mid-card title a hell of alot more meaningful.
3.) Easy as a fan to say: LESS PPV's. But Vince is the business man and I'm not....so I'll keep my mouth shut. But you can only have the same match time and time again before it gets REALLY old.
4.) Building feuds. The PPV should be the payoff....not a Monday night Raw. Then what the hell is the point of buying the PPV? Because you're putting them in a cell this time? Or perhaps THIS match will be a ladder or ambulance match, so this is a MUST SEE. Give me a break.
5.) If the WWE does all this...then the last thing I ask is a makeover. The announce position, the titan tron, the ramp....do away with it or make it better. At least make a change so it'll trick my mind into thinking it's watching a different/better product.
Pay Per Ghost
What they f*ck happened in the thread section here
The product was fine last year for me.
Sheamus became a fan favorite out of nowhere, Miz flip-flopped, Cody was good, Punk came to the land of over, Cena was Cena which is good, Hunter retured, D-Bry was given a good smug gimmick that suits him, Henry-Show put on an awesome feud, Orton's matches and antics became gold.
I...I dunno what to think. Any company would be worried going into their biggest show about how the recption of their product will be. It's not like they have two part timers in the ME (wait Rock and Jericho). Well they will be giving the job to the full-timers I'm sure. Ye, I said it. Cena has to win.
Kinda agree with Georgy. I think WWE must go through this tension before every Mania.
Sheamus became a fan favorite out of nowhere, Miz flip-flopped, Cody was good, Punk came to the land of over, Cena was Cena which is good, Hunter retured, D-Bry was given a good smug gimmick that suits him, Henry-Show put on an awesome feud, Orton's matches and antics became gold.
I...I dunno what to think. Any company would be worried going into their biggest show about how the recption of their product will be. It's not like they have two part timers in the ME (wait Rock and Jericho). Well they will be giving the job to the full-timers I'm sure. Ye, I said it. Cena has to win.
Kinda agree with Georgy. I think WWE must go through this tension before every Mania.
Here's the thing though, his time has come repeatedly but WWE refused to capitalise on it. He'd probably make for a poor face, but he's proen that he can do a good job as a heel. Compare Sheamus' career to Barrett's for example. One guy the company got behind big time and haven't stopped to date. The other the company pushes like a three yearold playing with a toy. with all their focus on him for a short time, then going "bored now" and leaving him in the toybox.
Agreed, but WWE gave him the US Title and then seemingly kicked him down the card, randing the move utterly stupid. It should have been a plotpoint for Zack Ryder or Vickie G's stable, but instead all that's been done is make the title less relavent and strip the title off of someone who's relavent.
That's a pretty fucking high ceiling, given that Jeff Hardy was one of the most over guys in the company and a great draw to boot. Gabriel is unlikely to ever be a superstar (but that's fine. Not everyone needs to be a superstar), but he could be a good midcarder with a decent fan following that helps establish other guys in the midcard before they go on up. Maybe have a world title reign or two as a transitional champion, but not a main eventer. But he's not going to be able to do anything useful while he's doing shit all on NXT or having three week yo-yo pushes.
It's not the PPV that would make him. It's the whole "putting on a good, exciting match when it counts" thing that would. Which is pretty much what got him over everywhere else. If WWE followed up on that in the following weeks on SD or Raw that's all he'd really need to set him up with a useful role in WWE.
Like I say, there's no shortage of Tallent in WWE or FCW.
Little Jerry Lawler
Sigmund Freud On Ritalin And Roids
There's been a lack of star power to me for a decade now. I would say it started with HHH in 2003. I don't blame HHH as he was the top guy after Rock and Austin left but he didn't do a lot to help. Let's look at some wrestlers.
Jericho: He was having great matches in 2000 and 2001. After he won the Undisputed Title, it went downhill. He had no direction for the longest time and being the second heel behind HHH didn't do him any favors. He could have been a big face during that period and when he did turn face in 2004, it wasn't much in the grand scheme of things.
Booker T: Never been a fan of the guy in the ring but I was told he was having good and great matches. He loses to HHH at WM 19, does pretty much nothing of note until he got drafted to Smackdown, and we know the rest.
RVD: Always good to give you a solid match and throughout his early WWE career, he was always thrown into title matches here and there. Whether you think he was a spot monkey or not, you could never deny that he was insanely over.
It was undeniable that Smackdown had the better show in terms of wrestling in 2003 when you had Angle, Lesnar, Mysterio, Benoit, etc. Was HHH scared that Lesnar was going to overshadow him? It sucked that we never got to see Lesnar go up against HHH, Jericho, or HBK. Angle's star could have risen more as well.
If Jericho, Angle, RVD, and Benoit were huge in 2005 and 2006, they could have elevated the midcard back then and maybe new stars would have been created so Cena wouldn't have the burden of being the man for so long.
Jericho: He was having great matches in 2000 and 2001. After he won the Undisputed Title, it went downhill. He had no direction for the longest time and being the second heel behind HHH didn't do him any favors. He could have been a big face during that period and when he did turn face in 2004, it wasn't much in the grand scheme of things.
Booker T: Never been a fan of the guy in the ring but I was told he was having good and great matches. He loses to HHH at WM 19, does pretty much nothing of note until he got drafted to Smackdown, and we know the rest.
RVD: Always good to give you a solid match and throughout his early WWE career, he was always thrown into title matches here and there. Whether you think he was a spot monkey or not, you could never deny that he was insanely over.
It was undeniable that Smackdown had the better show in terms of wrestling in 2003 when you had Angle, Lesnar, Mysterio, Benoit, etc. Was HHH scared that Lesnar was going to overshadow him? It sucked that we never got to see Lesnar go up against HHH, Jericho, or HBK. Angle's star could have risen more as well.
If Jericho, Angle, RVD, and Benoit were huge in 2005 and 2006, they could have elevated the midcard back then and maybe new stars would have been created so Cena wouldn't have the burden of being the man for so long.
xoxo French Kiss xoxo
Pourquoi?
Have Sheamus, Barrett, the Miz, and Zigger job to the big name stars to keep them credible and you have a problem building new stars.
Sheamus could have beat Triple H at WM27 and it would have put Sheamus online as a big time heel.
Barrett could have beat Cena once, cleanly during their feud and it would have put Barrett over Cena and made people interested in Barrett.
The Miz could have won WM 27 without the Rock getting involved cleanly to make the Miz a real champion, a real attaction. Love him or hate him a clean win over Cena at WM would have made the Miz a real heel.
Ziggler won the title from Edge on Smackdown, jobbed the belt back to Edge via a loop hole, he was fired, moved to RAW and bumped back to the middle card while Del Rio was pushed as a main event attraction. Sorry Del Rio is entertaining to some, but not to the masses. Ziggler could have taken this push, taken the match with Edge at Mania, and been pushed to the main event better and been much more established now.
Del Rio could have still won MITB and won the title in the MITB sneaky way without pushing Ziggler out of the spot light. Christian vs Orton could have happened with Ziggler mixed in as well. Henry could have still got his monster push into the title and thing would have worked out well.
The WWE dropped the ball on pushing younger talent rather. Now their paying for it
Sheamus could have beat Triple H at WM27 and it would have put Sheamus online as a big time heel.
Barrett could have beat Cena once, cleanly during their feud and it would have put Barrett over Cena and made people interested in Barrett.
The Miz could have won WM 27 without the Rock getting involved cleanly to make the Miz a real champion, a real attaction. Love him or hate him a clean win over Cena at WM would have made the Miz a real heel.
Ziggler won the title from Edge on Smackdown, jobbed the belt back to Edge via a loop hole, he was fired, moved to RAW and bumped back to the middle card while Del Rio was pushed as a main event attraction. Sorry Del Rio is entertaining to some, but not to the masses. Ziggler could have taken this push, taken the match with Edge at Mania, and been pushed to the main event better and been much more established now.
Del Rio could have still won MITB and won the title in the MITB sneaky way without pushing Ziggler out of the spot light. Christian vs Orton could have happened with Ziggler mixed in as well. Henry could have still got his monster push into the title and thing would have worked out well.
The WWE dropped the ball on pushing younger talent rather. Now their paying for it
scottyshowman82
Getting Noticed By Management
What did they expect? I think RVD, Big Show, Booker T, Goldberg, Carlito, Chris Masters, Matt Morgan, Mr. Kennedy, Shelton Benjamin, and even Chris Jericho were all misued to name a few in some shape or form during their WWE tenure.
I remember going to a Raw show in Toronto in 2001 or 2002. This was when the Rock was as hot as he could be and before the show started, empty ring just guys setting up the crowd starts chanting RVD. RVD did make some mistakes but I really do think that guy could have been just as over as Stone Cold and The Rock.
It's not all Vince's fault Eddie Guerrero passed away, the Chris Benoit situation happened, Edge had to retire early. But year after year we watch Vince look over this guy and that guy for whatever reason and then all of sudden in 2008 you realize HBK's retiring, Undertaker wrestles once a year. HHH is working backstage so gonna pull a young guy like Sheamus out from your farm brand and make him an overnight success story. (Nothing against Sheamus he did as good as anyone could in what he had to do.)
I don't work backstage at WWE so I don't know what it's like and I do think they do work very hard but we all noticed WWE laying back and hitting cruise control when it came to cutting edge ideas a lot of the time. Especially since WCW went under. I think somewhere after 2002 WWE lost it's edge.
I remember going to a Raw show in Toronto in 2001 or 2002. This was when the Rock was as hot as he could be and before the show started, empty ring just guys setting up the crowd starts chanting RVD. RVD did make some mistakes but I really do think that guy could have been just as over as Stone Cold and The Rock.
It's not all Vince's fault Eddie Guerrero passed away, the Chris Benoit situation happened, Edge had to retire early. But year after year we watch Vince look over this guy and that guy for whatever reason and then all of sudden in 2008 you realize HBK's retiring, Undertaker wrestles once a year. HHH is working backstage so gonna pull a young guy like Sheamus out from your farm brand and make him an overnight success story. (Nothing against Sheamus he did as good as anyone could in what he had to do.)
I don't work backstage at WWE so I don't know what it's like and I do think they do work very hard but we all noticed WWE laying back and hitting cruise control when it came to cutting edge ideas a lot of the time. Especially since WCW went under. I think somewhere after 2002 WWE lost it's edge.
Hulk Hogan's Brother
Stop asking me what I'm gonna do!!!
I think that Christian and Henry having a great run in 2011 did stall things a bit for guys like Barrett, Del Rio and even Sheamus to an extent. Then again though, someone it did not hinder the likes of Punk and Cody Rhodes from rising and Sheamus seems to be doing well for himself now as well.
The point is that the guys who are talented will always find a way to force themselves back into the contention without a big push being required for them. Sure Punk had a big story planned for him but look at how Sheamus got over. Simply by interrupting Henry and saying some Irish folk tales. I do not even think he won a match against Henry. Cody got over with an innocuous feud with Mysterio. After that he worked with even more inferior talents like Ezekiel Jackson and yet he was able to maintain an interest in himself.
You can talk all about the amount of programming and X not getting a win over Y( established wrestler) but the fact is great talent always shines and sometimes making stars is all about finding the right talent. The fact is that guys like Barrett, Ziggler and Kingston are not just that good. I'm still not certain about Miz and Del Rio because I do feel that while they have stuttered them becoming big stars will depend on if they can give a great performance in the next feud they have with an established superstar. Barrett and Ziggler however have already been given too many chances.
The point is that the guys who are talented will always find a way to force themselves back into the contention without a big push being required for them. Sure Punk had a big story planned for him but look at how Sheamus got over. Simply by interrupting Henry and saying some Irish folk tales. I do not even think he won a match against Henry. Cody got over with an innocuous feud with Mysterio. After that he worked with even more inferior talents like Ezekiel Jackson and yet he was able to maintain an interest in himself.
You can talk all about the amount of programming and X not getting a win over Y( established wrestler) but the fact is great talent always shines and sometimes making stars is all about finding the right talent. The fact is that guys like Barrett, Ziggler and Kingston are not just that good. I'm still not certain about Miz and Del Rio because I do feel that while they have stuttered them becoming big stars will depend on if they can give a great performance in the next feud they have with an established superstar. Barrett and Ziggler however have already been given too many chances.
Mr. Artistic guy
Better Off This Way
Sheamus is not that far from being THAT over. All they need to do is write in a bit of range for him and I can see him fill Orton's spot on Smackdown as early as late this year. Bryan, on the other hand, is going like a runaway freight train, just keeps getting better and better. I'm seriously thinking he goes into mania as champ now.
But they need more. They've absolutely wasted Rhodes now for a couple of months. They're on a loser with Zsch Ryder, the people are turning on him faster than a dreidel as he slowly gets uncovered as just another totally average superstar (bit oxymoronic). Barrett, Ziggler, Miz, these sorts of guys are getting a tone of exposure but they aren't being allowed to get any higher, they need the last surge of effort to get them the whole way and they can't rely on just Taker, Jericho, Cena, Orton or HHH to do it. These men would do well to learn how to make stars of themselves. It's a pivotal situation in the WWE. If you let guys like Sheamus and Bryan rule the roost without being truly over, even long-term fans are going to start switching off. Gotta do something about it and pronto, too much upper card, not enough pure caliber main eventers.
But they need more. They've absolutely wasted Rhodes now for a couple of months. They're on a loser with Zsch Ryder, the people are turning on him faster than a dreidel as he slowly gets uncovered as just another totally average superstar (bit oxymoronic). Barrett, Ziggler, Miz, these sorts of guys are getting a tone of exposure but they aren't being allowed to get any higher, they need the last surge of effort to get them the whole way and they can't rely on just Taker, Jericho, Cena, Orton or HHH to do it. These men would do well to learn how to make stars of themselves. It's a pivotal situation in the WWE. If you let guys like Sheamus and Bryan rule the roost without being truly over, even long-term fans are going to start switching off. Gotta do something about it and pronto, too much upper card, not enough pure caliber main eventers.
