WWE - Too many people, not enough talent

[FromTheSouth]

It sounds odd to say, but the fact is that the WWE has been stockpiling wrestlers to keep them from TNA, but in the end, there isn't enough talent. There are about 1200 midcarders, most of which cannot get on TV because, well, the suck.

The WWE insists on maintaining two rosters and two titles. I think this is stupid. The reason the main events seem so boring is that they are always the same. The reason they are all the same is that the WWE maintains a roster of 100 guys with 95 midcarders. Some of the midcarders get opportunities, but there are only five guys who actually matter. HHH, Cena, Orton, Batista, and Undertaker are the only guys who have to be in the main event to work. Edge can work a midcard feud. HHH is even trying.

The problem is that none of these guys do what professional wrestlers are supposed to do. They don't make people care about them. For all the "talent" that posters will claim Dolph Ziggler, Evan Bourne, etc. have, no one cares about them. Shit, Bourne's finisher is more over than he is. That's not how it's supposed to be. Shelton Benjamin is not a great professional wrestler. He is a great athlete. He is a terrible professional wrestler because he can't get consistently over with the crowd.

The brandsplit needs to end in order to establish an actual pecking order. The midcard can be comprised of a one off Cena vs. Swagger match, while it is Orton's turn to wrestle for the title. While it may seem that you can elevate new wrestlers faster by splitting the brands, I argue that the opposite is true. You can't put John Morrison and The Miz both in first time title matches. One of the shows is always going to have to have two older stars in the main event. So, if we eliminate the brandsplit, the more established guys can focus on putting people over, and eventually, when a lower card guy wins the title, it means more. Right now, it's like, oh, well, you won one of the titles, so you are the second best champion. Now, all of a sudden, without the brandsplit, one gets elevated for real, instead of as a side project, gets over with the crowd, and establishes his name. People care more, and a new talent is found instead of a place holder.

I am all for a purging of the roster. So many guys have no talent for being a professional wrestler. This means they can't create a following. Get rid of them. If they get over in TNA, awesome. If not, well, cool. Either way, if you slim the roster down to the people the fans care about, you get an entire card of talent, instead of a card full of people.

Now, that is not to say that no midcarders are doing their job. Kofi and Christian have done an amazing job of getting and staying over. Regal always gets a reaction. That is why these guys always seem to find their way onto the first hour of PPV, and the heroes of the IWC barely make it onto SD!

 

[luis_is_king]

It sounds odd to say, but the fact is that the WWE has been stockpiling wrestlers to keep them from TNA, but in the end, there isn't enough talent. There are about 1200 midcarders, most of which cannot get on TV because, well, the suck.

Exactly, the fact that they are doing this is irritating because the superstars that they stock up becomes deadweight like Shelton, Carlito, Yoshi, Kozlov and etc. because:not used at all, not used properly or just simply SUCK
They do these to keep those guys from going to TNA because they fear that the superstars they allow to leave might become big in TNA like Elijah Burke but they're better off in TNA if they can't contribute with the WWE at all.

As for the brandsplit, it could be better than it is now but because of the lazy booking of the midcard the only thing we look forward now is the main event and the midcard guys except the real over ones, get getting zero reaction/interest from the audience.

So overall I think WWE is hurting itself rather than doing themselves a favor with stockpiling bad talent and the lazy booking of the midcard worsens the situation. Totally agree with your opinion about the WWE.

Excellent thread. More power!

 

[raptorsfan4life]

It sounds odd to say, but the fact is that the WWE has been stockpiling wrestlers to keep them from TNA, but in the end, there isn't enough talent. There are about 1200 midcarders, most of which cannot get on TV because, well, the suck.

Nice, amazing how you say this stuff completely without thinking. Which midcarders aren't talented? Kofi Kingston? MVP? Christian, Jack Swagger? Miz? Matt Hardy? Kane? Or were you talking about the ones that went to TNA like Kennedy or Elijah Burke?

The WWE insists on maintaining two rosters and two titles. I think this is stupid. The reason the main events seem so boring is that they are always the same. The reason they are all the same is that the WWE maintains a roster of 100 guys with 95 midcarders. Some of the midcarders get opportunities, but there are only five guys who actually matter. HHH, Cena, Orton, Batista, and Undertaker are the only guys who have to be in the main event to work. Edge can work a midcard feud. HHH is even trying.

That's why they're gonna have the draft in a few weeks....Although i hadn't seen hhh vs Seamus before, and did Randy Orton face legacy in 2008? Or have Batista and Cena had 2 one on one matches? And Undertaker and shawn has happened 16/18 wrestlemanias....Jericho/Edge? Definately very repetitive on wwe's part

The problem is that none of these guys do what professional wrestlers are supposed to do. They don't make people care about them. For all the "talent" that posters will claim Dolph Ziggler, Evan Bourne, etc. have, no one cares about them. Shit, Bourne's finisher is more over than he is. That's not how it's supposed to be. Shelton Benjamin is not a great professional wrestler. He is a great athlete. He is a terrible professional wrestler because he can't get consistently over with the crowd.

Thats why those guys aren't wrestling for the world title. They're in money in the bank where their moves shine and they get to display their abilities. Otherwise they're referred to as jobbers.

The brandsplit needs to end in order to establish an actual pecking order. The midcard can be comprised of a one off Cena vs. Swagger match, while it is Orton's turn to wrestle for the title. While it may seem that you can elevate new wrestlers faster by splitting the brands, I argue that the opposite is true. You can't put John Morrison and The Miz both in first time title matches. One of the shows is always going to have to have two older stars in the main event. So, if we eliminate the brandsplit, the more established guys can focus on putting people over, and eventually, when a lower card guy wins the title, it means more. Right now, it's like, oh, well, you won one of the titles, so you are the second best champion. Now, all of a sudden, without the brandsplit, one gets elevated for real, instead of as a side project, gets over with the crowd, and establishes his name. People care more, and a new talent is found instead of a place holder.

I don't get this at all... There is a different pecking order already established for both brands... When seamus beat cena he went up against Randy... Is randy in experienced? Randy put over seamus since seamus won... Seamus has a lot going for him right now and same with swagger now he'll prob go up against edge who's well established... Seamus didn't hold the title cause he's set... put over well by hhh and the feuds good... He got seamus sucks chants 2 weeks ago... how many heels do that based on actions anymore... Swagger will prob hold title as long as it takes to get over...

I am all for a purging of the roster. So many guys have no talent for being a professional wrestler. This means they can't create a following. Get rid of them. If they get over in TNA, awesome. If not, well, cool. Either way, if you slim the roster down to the people the fans care about, you get an entire card of talent, instead of a card full of people.

WHo are u talking about? There have to be jobbers that seem credible like kane... guys like bourne and ziggler will get over in the future when older guys retire... This is a way bigger problem in Tna than wwe... I can't tell you who's still with tna and who they're feuding with....

Now, that is not to say that no midcarders are doing their job. Kofi and Christian have done an amazing job of getting and staying over. Regal always gets a reaction. That is why these guys always seem to find their way onto the first hour of PPV, and the heroes of the IWC barely make it onto SD!

Kofi got a good push originally so it worked.. He went up against randy and challenged him and got over... Regals been wrestling for 10 years so no shit... Christians a big star so yeah... Hopefully he gets into main event soon... SO yeah i basically will conclude that you made no point at all... The midcarders are doing their jobs fine and the wwe is just choosing who they want to push carefully... Randy turned face which is why they needed to give a heel a push since randy took shawns place... WWe's doing a decent job pushing ppl... remember if you push too early it could be disastrous...

 

[matador64]

HHH, Cena, Orton, Batista, and Undertaker are the only guys who have to be in the main event to work. Edge can work a midcard feud. HHH is even trying.

I'll take this one step further. Of those 5, only HHH, Orton and Undertaker are good enough wrestlers to work and carry a match that people will care about without having to have one of the other 4 (or even Jericho or Edge) involved. In other words, those 3 are perfectly capable of being paired up against a midcard talent and making it work as an entertaining and interesting match.

Cena cant, he has to be carried by one of those other 6 until he can do his big Hulking Up finish for the win. Even that, as WM once again showed, comes across as very forced and awkward and never seems to fit the flow or context of the match and never has any build to it. A good match should have a nice crescendo to the finish like a good piece of classical music. Cena's matches just go from 10 minutes of him being tossed around like a limp rag to skipping the crescendo straight into a fast and furious "ok Cena wins now." Not very believable, not very entertaining, just exciting for the kids to see the 5 Knuckle Shuffle and for the girls to see him with his shirt off. Put him in a match with a Dolph Ziggler or Shelton Benjamin and it's time to go get another beer for everyone else since they arent good enough to carry Cena around the ring for 10 minutes before the big finish. You put either of them against Orton or HHH and it becomes "ooh he gets a shot at one of the big guys, lets see what he's really got."

Batista can to a point, but needs one of the others to make it interesting, otherwise his opponent looks like a sacrifice sent to get squashed. He is just too powerful and credible as a top end guy for anything other than a squash to seem believable with him and a non-main eventer.

HHH on the other hand is the guy right now that if you want to prove you belong at the top you have to go through him and prove you can work a high level entertaining match. Orton is good enough that in a few years he'll be that guy. They essentially are the only 2 that can wrestle anybody and have it look legit.

Then once you've proved you belong at the top after dealing with HHH and Orton, you prove your are worthy of staying there when they have you work with the Undertaker. This is why you never see the Undertaker wrestle below main event level. Like Batista, anything less would look wrong if it wasnt a squash, and he's the guy that is so good at all aspects of the performance that if you can prove you can hang with him for not just one match, but in working a whole extended program, it makes you legit. Look at Orton, 5 or 6 years ago he was another Sheamus/Jack Swagger type, shoved to the main event level On Flair/HHH's coattails bc he had some talent but he wasnt really legitimized in the eyes of everyone until he worked with the Undertaker. Ever since then he's been hands down one of the top guys in the company.

So I guess, even the Undertaker needs to wrestle the top guys, but for him it's mainly because he is at such a higher level that no midcarder could make him look good even being jobbed out to him. If they arent ready to be with him, they'll just end up embarrassing themselves.

 

[FromTheSouth]

Kofi got a good push originally so it worked.. He went up against randy and challenged him and got over... Regals been wrestling for 10 years so no shit... Christians a big star so yeah... Hopefully he gets into main event soon... SO yeah i basically will conclude that you made no point at all... The midcarders are doing their jobs fine and the wwe is just choosing who they want to push carefully... Randy turned face which is why they needed to give a heel a push since randy took shawns place... WWe's doing a decent job pushing ppl... remember if you push too early it could be disastrous...

I don't think you actually read my post. My point was that there is no need to rush to push anyone up the ranks because most of the main event guys can work midcard matches. What is a better way to elevate someone? A. Have them beat Matt Hardy, and then beat Kane in a number one contender's match, or B. Have them beat HHH and then Orton in a number one contender's match?

My point is that the top guys working in the midcard does wonders for the up and comers who are worth a shit. I want to purge the roster of guys who will never amount to anything. I think guys like Bourne, Knox, and at this point Kane and Matt Hardy work well as enhancement talent. Guys like Shelton or Croft and Baretta could be let go to go flourish in TNA.

So, I will conclude that you missed the point and let it go at that.

 

[Upgrayedd]

This thread is ridiculous. The WWE is doing just fine with their talent. The guys that have been mentioned here such as Shelton Benjamin, Carlito, Kozlov, etc. aren't really big names and are mid card wrestlers at best and are exactly where they should be in the WWE.

As for WWE not having enough talent... I completely disagree with that statement. So Triple H, Orton, Batista, Cena, Edge, Jericho and Undertaker have no talent?

The problem isn't that WWE doesn't have talent. It's that they don't really know what to do with the talent. The writing and booking is beyond boring.

 

[InuJoshua]

Cena cant, he has to be carried by one of those other 6 until he can do his big Hulking Up finish for the win. Even that, as WM once again showed, comes across as very forced and awkward and never seems to fit the flow or context of the match and never has any build to it. A good match should have a nice crescendo to the finish like a good piece of classical music. Cena's matches just go from 10 minutes of him being tossed around like a limp rag to skipping the crescendo straight into a fast and furious "ok Cena wins now." Not very believable, not very entertaining, just exciting for the kids to see the 5 Knuckle Shuffle and for the girls to see him with his shirt off. Put him in a match with a Dolph Ziggler or Shelton Benjamin and it's time to go get another beer for everyone else since they arent good enough to carry Cena around the ring for 10 minutes before the big finish. You put either of them against Orton or HHH and it becomes "ooh he gets a shot at one of the big guys, lets see what he's really got."

Did you see Cena v. Swagger last year? He did a great job putting him over. Lets not forget that Cena is actually a talented wrestler when he's allowed to be. It's not his fault that he's booked as Superman.

 

[FromTheSouth]

This thread is ridiculous. The WWE is doing just fine with their talent. The guys that have been mentioned here such as Shelton Benjamin, Carlito, Kozlov, etc. aren't really big names and are mid card wrestlers at best and are exactly where they should be in the WWE.

This thread was about how to properly use the entier roster, including the midcard. I doubt you read it, and if you did, you didn't come close to understanding it. I want to purge the roster of Kozlov, Carlito etc. so the right guys can get pushed.

As for WWE not having enough talent... I completely disagree with that statement. So Triple H, Orton, Batista, Cena, Edge, Jericho and Undertaker have no talent?

So, I guess the seven guys you mentioned are enough talent? I don't remember ever saying that the WWE had no talent. Please find where I said that there was no talent in the WWE? Oh, I didn't? Right. It's called context buddy. When you're done looking up what that means, come back to me.

OK, good, you're back. My claim here is that there a bunch of guys on the roster who take up TV time and are completely worthless. If we get rid of them, unsplit the brands, we can use the guys who actually make people care about them twice a week and further elevate the guys who deserve it by giving them more TV time.

The problem isn't that WWE doesn't have talent. It's that they don't really know what to do with the talent. The writing and booking is beyond boring.

I don't find it boring, although I do agree that some talent isn't being used correctly. I think that is more of a time constraint than it is a problem with creative. It's nice to say that the WWE doesn't know what to do with wrestler X, but sometimes there's only three minutes on Raw to use him. Why not unsplit the brands and give him three minutes on Raw and then eight on SD!? Wouldn't that allow the guys who everyone claims are used improperly to get the time to be used properly instead of forcing TV time for guys who don't deserve it? Some people get TV time just because there isn't as much talent in the WWE as far as guys with the ability to make people care about them as there are warm bodies with "the look."

I promise, the best way to get rid of Hornswoggle skits are to get Jericho, The Miz, Cena, Orton, and the other guys who know how to be professional wrestlers on both shows instead of making time for athletes with no charisma.

 

[thepalaceprince]

No offense but your logic is a little off. The midcarders suck because nobody cares about them. Most of the guys in the wwe are loaded with talent. Just because they arent over or arent pushed/used properly doesnt mean they dont have talent. There is a huge disparity between the midcard and main event nowadays but its not because of a lack of talent its because guys dont get pushed or the wwe gives up on them too quickly. Another flaw in your logic is the fact that some of the main event guys arent as talented as some of the midcard guys but they are over with crowd. Cena isnt a great wrestler but people love him for whatever reason. hes not where he is because hes a great all around wrestler hes there because people like him. The wwe is loaded with talent unfortunately there are too many guys on the roster and so not everyone can get tv time or time on the mic and they get buried but its not because they suck

 

[kobrad]

I agree with the palaceprince. WWE has a lot of talent and i think you are off when you say there is a lot of dead weight. the only reason they are "dead weight" is because WWE tries to tell you they are. there are so many guys (shelton, carlito, chavo, the list goes on), and sure we might say "Hey these guys aren't 'Championship material' so they dont count anyways" well seriously anyone can win the title, i bet you Bryan Danielson will one day become champ. Vince knows how to get you to like people, he just puts them on TV, if they arent on TV you "forget" about them and then they are "dead weight" Shelton can be champ if he wants but Vince says no so he wont

 

[Beards17]

u make some great points about there being way to many cannon fodder superstars and that there stockpilling in order to keep talent from tna. Although i dont agree with the erasing of the split brands ur thread is well put. The WWE should just come up with crazier storylines and have more factions and fueds like they did in the 90s. Some of the lower ranking wrestlers such as Kofi,kozlov,bourne,especially shelton(they can think of way better stuff for this cat to do!!!),and such could be all fueding with other and they can all kicks each others ass and make great matches!!!! its funny to see superstars get pushes like kofi did with randy and then fall in obscurity once again. there is tons of creative things the WWE could do!
of course the world titles are gonna be on the major superstars becuase as someone pointed out there is a pecking order and these guys deserve to be where there at. Guys like cena taker hunter randy really pour out there soul into this biz and it shows!!!
I agree that things are getting stale and there needs to be a not so much a purging but a definte revamping of the mid card wrestlers!! well put thread

rko for life!!!

 

[Hawkeye]

i don't understand this at all.There's about 25-30 guys on each show plus they get time on superstars.if you go to tna's website they've got more people than freakin mortal kombat and only one show. they put people on tv that are going excite the fans at home and give us something to talk about at work tomorrow.the other guys work dark matches and live events or get face time on tv for a while to get slightly over so they can do charity stuff.it's a damn good formula and they should milk it to the last drop.if everybody was a main eventer, then there would be too much contention for titles.And who's to say it's all about titles? if anything, I wanna see a good feud between some mid carders WITHOUT it being about a title.Punk and Rey are a shining example of what i'm talking about,but they need to do it for guys they don't have enough screen time. and if all else fails,they could shock the world and bring back the cruiserweight title,because there aren't as many batista like creatures stomping around at the E right now

 

[Rhonda Rousey's Sports Bra]

FTS I understand what you're trying to say and I also think that it would be a good idea.

I think what you are trying to get across is that you want the split to end so it goes back to the time when the WWE Heavyweight Champion was the end all be all, not just one of the World Champs. Take it back to (imo) around the best time in pro wrestling right when Smackdown first became a show and the Champ worked both shows.

When the WWE was like that you had great Raw and Smackdowns, almost every show was exciting through out the entire show. It was because the mid card feuds were good and the main event was a-fucking-mazing. It was like that because the mid card guys had talent and most had potential to be main eventing in the future and the guys that didn't went to the lower card or were future endevoured.

I would love to see the brand split go and the mid card trimmed down to the few that have potential and that have the knack for making you give a fuck about them. Will it happen, no probably not because the wrestlers already work quite a few shows a year and this would almost double the work load. Which might increase death rates because of drug abuse (pain killers and steriods-steriods help you heal faster), shorten careers, and lose Vince money in merch in some way shape or form.

 

[itbewilly]

This thread would make more sense if WWE didn't have two shows and two seperate rosters to run.

But then look over at TNA.What do they have? They have as many(or more people) then the WWE and have 2 hours of tv a week.

I dont know if you realize it but all TNA is doing is wasting more money then they can afford to by hiring every guy who wants a break from the WWE or get fired for screwing up from them.Im not pro WWE or pro TNA.I beleive both companies being successful is good for the business.

My only issue is why complain about the WWE when TNA is in the exact same boat if not even worse off.Thats all

 

[Cookie14]

I disagree with this for one main reason. There isn't enought for anyone below the main event to do.
Personally, I would love to see more of the wrestlers who aren't in the ME on the shows, but the only way this can work properly, and establish a 'pecking order' would be to bring back the European and Cruiserweight titles. Maybe even the hardcore title.
If WWE do this then immediatley Regal, Goldust, Tatsu, Borne, Kane, Kozlov, R-Truth (when he's done teaming with JoMo) and many others all have something to do. Having them fighting for titles would make us care about them a lot more than just having them job to 'bigger' names, or take part in pointless matches against eachother

 

[secret titan]

I'm not really sure if it's talent that is the problem. The WWE doesn't give anyone time to PROVE themselves, unless you're in the hunt for one of the top two championships. Yeah, sure, they have tag matches, and others wrestling. It's just that with so many people on the roster, they have to split time with all the wrestlers. Perhaps that is the real problem on why they don't have good storylines anymore. Too many wrestlers... not enough time.

 

[Cookie14]

I know I've already posted, but I'm back to annoy you all again.....
It isn't that there are too many wrestlers, or that there isn't enough depth of talent on the roster. The reason no-one cares about mid-card talent is simple.... They get no TV time.
Every week Cena, Orton, HHH, Edge, Jericho, Miz etc all have a 10-15 minute match, and take part in a promo that lasts the same amount of time. They have at least a quarter of each show all to themselves EVERY WEEK!!
The rest of the roster seem to be a part of the show, only as an after-thought when creative realise they can't fill two hours of Raw or SD using only a handful of wrestlers(yet they still seem to make this mistake every week!)

 

[WWE Manster03]

OP, I get what you mean but I honestly don't think that a brand unification would solve any problems. I'll do my best to explain...
Raw Roster(Men)
Cena, HHH, Big Show, Carlito, Chavo G., Evan Bourne, Christian, Orton, Ted DiBiase, Cody Rhodes, Chris Masters, Kofi Kingston, Mark Henry, Primo, MVP, Santino, Miz, Sheamus, Kozlov, Zach Ryder, William Regal, Yoshi Tatsu, Hornswoggle.
Raw Roster(Women)
Gail Kim, Maryse, Alicia Fox, Jillian Hall, Kelly Kelly, Eve Tores, Bella 1 and 2, Katie Lea, Melina, Rosa Mendes.
Smackdown Roster(Men)
Batista, Croft, Jericho, CM Punk, Dolph Ziggler, Drew McIntyre, Edge, Goldust, Jack Swagger, Kane, Shad, JTG, Funkaki, Matt Hardy, Curt Hawkins, David Hart Smith, Tyson Kidd, Khali, Ezekial Jackson, Slam Master J, Jimmy Wang Yang, Finlay, John Morrison, Luke Gallows, R Truth, Shelton Benjamin, Undertaker, Mike Knox, Rey Mysterio, Baretta.
Smackdown Roster(Women)
Mickie James, Michelle McCool, Layla, Natalya, Serena, Tiffany, Beth Phoenix

Now if you made 1 solid roster, you would have to cut loose at least half of the people listed here. The problem with that is you have to keep your main eventers and you have to keep people on the roster that are credible wins for younger talent( Matt Hardy, Kane, Finlay, Mike Knox, Khali, Mark Henry). That means people that are young enough to wait their turn to move up the ladder will have to wait much longer because the top of the roster is rich with talent. The only people on the very top of the ladder that are reaching the end are HHH,Batista, Undertaker, and Mysterio. Cena, Orton, Edge, Jericho all will be in the Main Event Scene for the next 5-8 years easily. Then if you go by marketability, Big Show, Christian, Cm Punk, Swagger, and Sheamus will have the next level locked down waiting their turn. What happens to Kofi, Morrison, McIntyre, DiBiase and guys like that? They are the future of the company and WWE won't mortgage their future and cut loose the people that they want to build their company around. The brand split is their best option, but the booking on the brands needs to be more consistent and better overall.

 

[nish2231995]

It will be very interesting to see where shad and JTG end up now seeing that they split up. The title of this thread is undoubtebly 100% correct. Too many guys (ill guess 232,000) not enough talent. I'll tell you why there isnt enough talent. Some guys have mic skills, some have wrestling skills, most cant have both (swagger is a fine example, along with shelton). But the big problem is that wwe is increasing their matches to look unbelievable. This is why people arent coming to see them. Another, their talent becomes increasingly boring over periods of time. I think its about time cena made another movie!