WWE struggling to produce enough main event talent?

[ad21k]

I have seen a lot of discussion the last couple of days over championship belts becomming meaningless and the reasons behind this. In my opinion it's because the wrestlers holding the mid-card titles are nothing more than paper champions. Take CM Punk and Shelton Benjimin, 10 years ago these guys would have been ditched long ago, but because of the total lack of young undercard talent WWE are forced to work with them, and give them the belts. Is this been a problem for WWE? because since 2000 just how many major stars has WWE made?

Batista
Cena
Orton

And thats about it, in 9 years only 3 guys have debuted and become big stars within the company.

You can add to that list maybe Edge, JBL and Jeff Hardy at push because they only became big stars after 2000. But still thats only 6 main event calibre stars WWE has produced.

As a result of not being able for whatever reason to produce more upper card talent, the undercard titles have inevitably suffered. The talents WWE has produced have needed to be ultilised in the main event picture, because WWE is losing main event talent faster than it can be replaced. Therefore there is a huge gulf between the main event and the mid-card now. WWE's mid-card is far too weak IMO. What is even more shocking for the WWE is that both HBK, JBL and Taker are closing in on retirement. Another point is that WWE is becomming increasingly dependent on John Cena but what happens if Cena gets a career ending injury, or for some reason leaves? WWE currently has no-one to fill the huge void he would leave. WWE is already short on main event talent, losing Cena would be catastrophic.

What is everyones views on this? Is WWE producing talent fast enough in your opinion? Has it had an impact on the devaluation of the mid-card titles?

 

[klunderbunker]

You're also forgetting HHH and Jericho. Throw in Taker and HBK as the already established veterans and that's 10 guys on two shows. You also have guys like Big Show and Punk that you can throw into the main event in a pinch and you have a pretty full main event lineup. I wouldn't say that there's a lack of big named talent, but rather a lack of stars as big as Austin and Rock. Personally I don't see this as really being a problem. The roster is fairly well balanced and produces good tv. Edge has truly grown up in front of our eyes and when he finally won the title it was perfect for the character he had become and the same can be said about Hardy.

Regarding the mid card though you're dead on. The mid card situation is in shambles right now. People always want to talk about how wrestlers get lost in the midcard. Honestly, what midcard? There's a bunch of guys that are on the lower end of what could be a midcard but are boarderline curtain jerkers and lower card guys. The mid card is for people that could hit the main event someday. Do people really see R-Truth and Dolph Ziggler as world champions in WWE?

 

[NSL]

You made a great post, but I don't agree with it at all. Producing 6 of their own main eventers is rather impressive, since they only need 2 for a title match. The ones they have produced are definitely of high-caliber, as they are great in the ring, and draw well, except JBL.

It takes a few years for guys to be considered main eventers, and there's a ton of guys in the mid-card that are on their way up to the top of the card. Matt Hardy, CM Punk, Jack Swagger, The Miz, MVP, Ken Kennedy, and Brian Kendrick are all on their way up, and some could be main eventing by the end of the year.

The only thing the WWE has trouble producing, is tag teams.

 

[ad21k]

Prehaps the point about producing enough main eventers is not correct. However the huge gap between the mid-card and the upper-card must be a worry for WWE, and is more the point I wanted to get accross. I mean as guys like Edge, Jeff Hardy, and Orton have made the transition into the main event no-one has replaced them, leaving a weakened mid-card. Though I do feel WWE could produce more main event material, if not for anyone else then just for Cena who needs fresh feuds as Taker and Hardy are the only 2 main event talents that he hasn't get feuded with for the title.

 

[hotwater10]

Agreed. I hate it, people say o Ted, Cody, Santino, Miz + Morrsion, and Snuka are gonna be so great. Can you really see any of these guys in a main-event. If your gonna make a WWE Super SuperStar you have to debute as one. Like Jericho, Cena, Lesner, I say put more mainstream verterns in Legacy to make them young fools look like main-event material.

 

[klunderbunker]

Have to disagree with you on the debuting part. Austin came in as nothing at all, as did HHH and Hardy. If the talent is there people will see it and it'll come out. Guys like Cena and Rock were brought in as promising young rookies and they got shot to the moon and back. The intro doesn't matter as much as what happens after it. Without a proper push and booking you'll never become anything.

 

[Suneeboy]

I think the WWE didn't expect guys like Angle, The Rock, Austin, Christian, Lesnar, Lashley, and other high profile players to leave so prematurely. When they abruptly left, the WWE had a difficult task on their hands, and that's why I think everything slumped for a few years. The WWE struggled to balance its product and find a new identity because they were losing stars that they were invested heavily in.

Fortunately what they are now doing is developing new talent, and it seems like they are being careful to not push anyone too fast...which is a good thing. HHH, Cena, Orton, Jericho etc. will be around long enough for 3 or 4 more people to come up to the main event, just in time to see HBK, Undertaker, JBL, and Kane retire. The WWE WAS struggling to produce main event talent, but I think they have a formula in place. With MITB being an annual event that means it is safe to assume that we will get no less than one new main eventer a year. The main event scene will be fine...it is a "little" slow right now but its coming off of a low point.

 

[lalakerz]

It's simply because of the tri-branded PPV's, of course we have had some very solid ppv's since Backlash 2007 and maybe it has been nice to have 3 title matches on a card, IF THEY ARE SOLID matches, then that plus secondary feuds from each brand shape up nicely on paper. But ultimately, this creates the need for many more feuds; if you're going to have what, 14 title matches a year? If you simply do the math and look at statistics, you can't go on forever producing new material from this with the same superstars; therefore people like Kozlov and Mike Knox are put into the main event... Should they really be in the main event? No... But because they don't have the starpower they had at their prime, they don't have an option...

As I type this I am watching the No Way Out 2003 dvd and to see such high caliber matches such as Bischoff/Austin, Undertaker/Big Show, Rock/Hogan, etc. plus Jericho/Hardy and a 6 man tag with the likes of Angle, Lesnar, Benoit, etc. says something... That was before single brand PPV's, but they had a greater number of stars, and they knew how to use them, and they knew the meaning of a championship.

The question to ask is, what big matches are left? Simply, Batista vs. John Cena II is the hugest thing to do at this moment, and they planned it for WM25 but Batista got injured... Orton is being built up nicely and hopefully he'll have a match with Vince at WM25 as sort of a Legend vs. Legend Killer... These 3 stars are the biggest "new" thing in WWE, as said above, plus guys like Jeff and Edge are on their way to that level. They do have talent, maybe not as much as they once did, but still enough for solid main events, although maybe not historical.

 

[Tyrath]

Agreed. I hate it, people say o Ted, Cody, Santino, Miz + Morrsion, and Snuka are gonna be so great. Can you really see any of these guys in a main-event. If your gonna make a WWE Super SuperStar you have to debute as one. Like Jericho, Cena, Lesner, I say put more mainstream verterns in Legacy to make them young fools look like main-event material.

Jericho and Lesnar I can see. But do you know remember how Cena debuted? Sure he had an impressive first match, but I don't think he debuted anywhere near the main event level. He debuted lower in the card and rather quickly worked his way up.

And yes, I can actually see Ted, Cody or Morrison in the main events in the future. The other 3, not so much.

 

[nerol]

I definitely agree with suneeboy's first statement. If the aforementioned stars did not retire at the early stage of their career in WWE then, they could've been the biggest thing now. But also the said loss opened doors for newcomers like Cena, Orton and even Edge.Probabaly if Stone Cold and the Rock and Lesnar stayed put, the younger guys like might've not reach main event status. The Attitude era opened a lot of doors for great guys and after those years, pretty bland. But it is a cycle, you see. The retirement of those good 'ole folks now in the WWE will be the test on how long can WWE keep up.WIll they come up with the Attitude era 2.0? Or will they stagnate and continue this "GP-era"?

 

[rob316]

I can see MVP & Mr Kennedy both walking away as 1st time world champions this year. But your never a top main eventer off your first title run. Look at Randy Orton when he beat Benoit for the title n lost to HHH he wasnt still main eventing wasnt tell after Rated RKO that he has really been bought up as a strong main eventer. I feel same will happen to jeff hardy n matt hardy in there fued they will both come off stronger in the eyes of the fans n be more of a ppv headliner.

 

[drummerboy144]

The only midcard wrestlers that i see in the main event are kennedy and john morrison, kennedy has potential he has mic skills something even main eventers dont have this days (Batista,Kozlov,etc) and morrison is a grat talent that remins me of edge. But as said earlier there is no midcard in wwe im not a hater but i dont see nothing special in cm punk,kofi,the miz(i think he is good in a tag team),mvp, among others, i think their some potential in the tag division with carlito & primo, cryme time, miz & morrison & dibiase rhodes but i dont see none of these people as wwe champions in the future other than kennedy and morrison, hey but thats just me.

 

[Showtime]

Your being too hard on the younger guys. It takes time to make great champions. it took Edge almost 8 years to win his first WWE heavy weight title, and even then it took him another year and a bit to really become a great one. Let's look at the WWE's history of bringing up their own guys to win the WWE title. In 98 the Austin era was born, they had two homegrown talents win gold in HHH and The Rock in 99. Kurt won his first in 2000, but it was really 2001 where he began to lift off. Lesner won it in 02, but right there is an example of pushing someone too quick and then they fizz out and loss interest (see Lashley). Orton won it in 04, but there again, too much too quick as it would take Orton over three years to win the title back. JBL too won one in 04. Cena and Batista entered the fold in 05. Edge won his in 06, and then we've had first time winners Punk and Hardy in 08, Punk another example of someone pushed too quick and Hardy we'll see in time.

They've had droughts before you'll notice, like the 3 1/2 years in between Angles first title reign and JBL's and Orton's there was only one home grown talent in Lesner. Look further back if you will, before Austin in 98, Michaels won his first in 1996, Yokozuna in 1993, Hart in late 92. Taker in late 91. (and there, another example of getting the title to soon and not seeing it for a while, like 5 1/2 years) So see, after the Hogan era officially ended, there was a rush for new big names in Yoko/Taker/Hart to fill the void, then a long nothing, but Michaels, for a while as the WWE let go of the it's older wrestlers from the Hogan era and rebuilt. Then came the surplus in 98-00, then another long break, a big part due to the death of WCW and ECW and the subsequent talent that came over, then re-building again with the 5 guys from 04-06 and now... we wait.

WWE's gotten by on the 5 who won their first title's in 04-06, three of which are just getting into the prime of their career, and the legends of previous years who have stayed on, including HHH, Michaels, Taker, Jericho, Kane, Big Show, Mysterio. Those guys have been doing unbelievable work and sooner or later some of those guys will have to retire. The WWE made Punk and Hardy champs this year, and has also shown to be reaching out and trying new people, as are the examples of Kingston, The Brian Kendrick, and hell even Knox is getting some looks. Think of this era as the 93 to 98 era where WWF cleaned up shop let go of a lot of people and rebuilt themselves, except this time there winning the ratings battle so the can hang on to some big draws. That's a five year period where only Michaels became homegrown WWE champ. I say let's wait till at least Wrestlemania in 2010, I guarantee by then we should see the WWE start bringing up the next batch of great homegrown champions, if not then we'll be having this conversation again with a more serious tone.

Phew, that was long. I had a big point to this, I lost my way a few times, but I think I made clear most of what I was getting at. Good thread.

 

[Gelgarin]

The problem isn't a lack of talent in the mid card, it's a lack of space at the top.

The WWE has a dozen or so main event talents, and feels the need to include them on every show. Short of an injury wave, every single PPV card has to include Cena, HHH, Michaels, Taker, Edge, Orton, JBL, Show, Hardy and Jericho.

What this usually amounts to is three quarters of the card simply being eaten up by keeping the prominent names looking prominent. With two main event title matches on every card, coupled with the inevitable main event squabbling, one finds ones self asking the questions "what's left"?

To amuse myself, I looked through the PPV history 2001 (A year I remember as being very good for the mid card) and 2008 (A year that has sucked ass), and compared how much time was given to establishing legitimate mid card feuds.

The year 2001 opened up with a memorable mid card feud between Jericho and Benoit. It had the Hardys, Dudley's and Edge and Christian feuding throughout most of the year, including being given one of the longest matches at Wrestle mania.

The line between mid card and main event was blurred, with big names like Angle taking on rising stars like Benoit and Edge, offering them a spot in multiple high profile matches.
It wasn't uncommon to see midcard talent involved in the longest match of the night, with matches such as the half hour tag team match at Judgement Day.
King of the ring existed exclusively to help elevate midcard talent, and can probably be given the credit of starting the ball tolling on one of the greatest heels in the industry today.

Then of course we had invasion, where everything went to shit. Suddenly the WWE had too many big name talents, and started struggling to pack everyone onto PPV cards. And the booking path diverted until we eventually arrived at 2008

The first PPV of 2008 contained only 2 madcard talent in the entire lineup, which was MVP jobbing to Flair, who I personally don't think counts as a guy needing elevation. Start as you mean to continue seemed to be the philosophy going into No Way Out, where despite there being 2 elimination chamber matches, the card was once again almost totally bereft of guys looking to move up the rankings.

Wrestlemania was (money in the band aside) all about the top guys, with guys like Umaga jobbing to established tallen in a few minutes, and Chavo Guerrero getting squashed by Kane in a handful of seconds.

We did get the see the culmination of MVP's feud with Matt Hardy, which I'm sorry to say was the biggest midcard feud for some time. When the most exposure you give to the under card is having people play Chinese Checkers with one another, you have to question your booking.


...

Anyway, I could ramble on at length running down each individual card, but the general pattern has quite clearly been displayed. In times gone by, significant portions of the card has been given over to guys some way off the main event, and undercard wrestlers have been put in high profile matches in order to help them get over and uppercard guys.

Today, nine tenths of the show is devoted to the guys allready at the top. Most midcard fueds end up with nothing more than an eight minuite title match on Smackdown, and as such the midcard guys simply arn't getting over.

 

[Kim Cassanova]

I personally think that WWE is not losing main eventers ... I do agree that they're pushing the wrong people sometimes (Valdimir Kozlov, Mike Knox, Great Khali, Jack Swagger) but I don't think that there's a lack of possible main eventers from the mid-card. Some of my choices are CM Punk (I'm biased on this one since I like his persona a lot as well as his attitude, he just needs a better push than what they did the last time), John Morrison (I thought he couldn't cut it as a champion but in his first match for the ECW Championship I saw that if he became a little bit more mature he could become a main-eventer for Raw or Smackdown), R-Truth (seriously I like this guy, he has oodles of charisma), Ken Kennedy (I wasn't a fan of his at the beginning but I got to like him as a face recently), and Ezekiel Jackson (This guy has a huge potential to be the next Goldberg/Batista if they play it properly, he needs more exposure) As for the midcard I agree that it's kind of weak right now but there are good mid-carders like Santino, The Legacy, Crime Tyme (if they plan to do singles), MVP, Carlito, Shelton Benjamin, and Evan Bourne. I mean if you compare the roster now to the ones in the past then yeah they might look a bit weaker but I think WWE has enough talent if only they know how to use them right (not that I'm saying I know how to do it right)



he could have been a great main-eventer if only he didn't mess up ... it was so cool seeing him wear both the WWE and ECW championship at the same time on his waist

 

[TheOneBigWill]

The talent growth is good enough. You don't need to pop out 20 Main Eventers within a year's time. The fact is, you did forget a large amount of names that've become Main Eventers, since 2000, that W.W.E. did help put there. They just aren't all with/in the company anymore.

In today's industry, you have guys like C.M. Punk, Kofi Kingston, Mike Knox, M.V.P., Mr. Kennedy, Mark Henry, Matt Hardy, Finlay, Jack Swagger, Umaga, Priceless and several other names.. all of which are being tested in the Main Event scene. But just because they're being tested, doesn't mean we need them to jump up NOW.

Today, we still have the originals; guys like Undertaker, Edge, Triple H., Shawn Michaels, John Cena, Batista, Chris Jericho, Big Show and more.. all capable of still going right now. So they can take the slow development route, instead of the "let's thrust them into Main Event status right now, and fuck up our mid-card worse" route.

Once a guy jumps to the Main Event, he either has to stay there, or risk running the fact that if he gets dropped back down to the mid-card (Punk, Jericho) that he won't be seen as a capable Main Event prospect that could carry anything later.

 

[supergav67]

Ive said before WWE is usually in a no win situation regarding titles.They either pick a fans fav like Cena (or NoT HiM aGaiN) or try a new guy like Jack Swagger (or WHo THe £$%&s He?!)
Im sure Vince wouldnt agree but finding new talent was slightly easier when WCW/ECW was around.After all,who didnt know what RVD,Benoit,Eddie or Y2J were or could do when they FiRST set foot in a WWE ring.Having a SchooL like FCW leading onto ECW is a good idea.(though calling it ECW when it clearly no longer is,isnt) but none of them are gonna get very far without a blantly obvious in yer face push like what Angle,Lesnar,Cena & CMPunk got.
What the new talent doesnt have anymore on smaller split in three rosters is time.HBK.Rock. & the Hardys started of as tag wrestlers rising through a then 6 title ladder to World champion. & baring the chop,injury,& sackings are still here,, WhO gets that luxury now.
In the end,as long as their scouts are looking,maybe not another Hogan,Austin or Bret will be found but the next best thing,the best there is.It involves the usual mix of talent,personality,fan base &,the hardest thing to decipher,WWE politics or how much the boss or CReaTiViTY (sometimes a contradiction in terms) ReaLLy like you.

 

[Vankid34]

I would like to agree with alot of thread posted earlier.
The WWE has gone a long way as far as character development.
Some have been successful almost immediately like the Rock, Steve Austin, Shawn Michaels, HHH
Other may have been viewed as great potential but fade after their talent did not match with their mouth in the ring.
I think WWE is taking the cautious approach now then they have in the past.
If a young superstar is pushed..(Mr. Kennedy, Shelton Benjamin, CM Punk, Lashley,Umaga, MVP,Evan Bourne) and lose their way. It almost seems as it you have to wait another (wrestling year) to see them get another crack at success.
I do agree with one thing. Old school wrestlers had to jump through more hoops to get to where they are now. (Edge, Matt and Jeff Hardy, Jericho,JBL,Kane,) all those men came in and had to fight their way into the spotlight. The problem with that is overtime some lost their charisma excluding (EDGE, and the Hardy Boys) I guess age is the ultimate charisma killer.
Outside of that I like the work that is being put into Koffi Kingston, Knox, Jack Swagger,Legacy and Orton) These guys will continue to grow under the right storyline and circumstances. Other wrestlers like Rey, Untertaker are not really doing anything. They are riding on their fans but their characters are flatline. Personally Kane.. is working on his softer side even though it is not interesting to watch and whole David vs. Goliath bit is played out. However he evolving nevertheless or helping Knox evolve.
The ultimate disappointing thing I have to say is Batista. I loved his energy but he alway lacked verbal skills I think that was his downfall. He could slam his way of a corner but he would talk himself right backinto it. He needs like a verteran to mentor him be his mouth like Atlas is to Mark Herny then we can see him rise to the top and stay there.
To close WWE makes a hugh effort to give superstar the boost they need The Draft is the biggest example, really its up to the wrestler to keep reinventing himself to get Main Eventer Status(look at BIG SHOW,Mark Herny,Jeff Hardy)

 

[just2Cme]

Most of the guys that are around have some years left in them, cena and orton also has alot of gas left in the tank. Both guys also seem like they will be around for a while w/o leaving wwe for other forms of entertainment.

WWE really doesn't need any "new" main event talent right now and some of the undercard guys are like cena and orton during the early 2003, they may be stars in a few years by the time some of the veterans are officially retired.

If any thing WWE doesn't need a better main event scene they need a better mid-card scene to be built up. A good Mid-carder can get a title match w/o winning like Kennedy use to do before he became injury prone.

 

[Big Sexy]

The WWE hasn't had trouble producing main event talent, a lot of them have just left the WWE. Since 2000 the WWE has made main eventers out of guys like Lashley, Lesnar, Kurt Angle, and RVD. Guys like Big Show and Booker T were main eventers in WCW and the WWE was able to bring them in and keep them at that high level. So the problem isn't making main eventers, it's keeping those guys around.

 

[lalakerz]

The first PPV of 2008 contained only 2 madcard talent in the entire lineup, which was MVP jobbing to Flair, who I personally don't think counts as a guy needing elevation. Start as you mean to continue seemed to be the philosophy going into No Way Out, where despite there being 2 elimination chamber matches, the card was once again almost totally bereft of guys looking to move up the rankings.

Agreed 100%, I attempted to say something along those lines, but I didn't word it so good. It's because WWE has so many high profile matches on one PPV, yet it doesn't have a mid-card because of it. There are benefits and detrimental results of this- as you said, where's the mid-card? Some of my favorite matches to re-watch are tag team matches and cruiserweight title matches from a few years ago without such in depth story lines... And this will only lead to more struggling to provide new material in years to come. That's why they're putting people like Kofi and Mike Knox in the Elimination Chamber at NWO which is smart, but in my opinion not exactly the best two- yet they think they have a future with Knox so lets' see what the team of the WWE Creative team and Mike Knox bring to the table... I saw more potential in Snitsky than Knox, and they gave up on him so we can only wait and see what they plan on doing from here... Hopefully not continuing Knox into the Main Event..... Umaga was great in the main event matches he had and I would like to see him back in the main event hopefully within a few months.

 

[f_roEDGE]

In my opinion it's because the wrestlers holding the mid-card titles are nothing more than paper champions. Take CM Punk and Shelton Benjimin, 10 years ago these guys would have been ditched long ago, but because of the total lack of young undercard talent WWE are forced to work with them, and give them the belts. Is this been a problem for WWE? because since 2000 just how many major stars has WWE made?

Batista
Cena
Orton

And thats about it, in 9 years only 3 guys have debuted and become big stars within the company.

You can add to that list maybe Edge, JBL and Jeff Hardy at push because they only became big stars after 2000. But still thats only 6 main event calibre stars WWE has produced.

Your kidding right?? Have you seen Smackdown's elimination chamber?? It's badass, and everyone (except for Undertaker & Big Show) became true main eventers after 2000. What wrestling federation do you watch??

WWE is a three branded company. If there was no brand split, Cena, Jeff & Orton would be fighting for the IC title, while Undertaker, Triple H, HBK, Jericho and Big Show would be in the main event. But WWE worked with who they have, and they are doing a fantastic job.

 

[supergav67]

This may seam like another thread for another day but,one teensy way to bring new talent along, is.Seeing as ECW has to change the name of Its One Night Stand PPV to be more PG (so I hear).AND Seeing as ECW seams to become more FCW & less extreme,why Not cancel ONS altogether or at least give a permanent PPV home in it to the King Of The Ring.
As you know the King Of The Ring was a knockout PPV tournament won by Bret,Austin,H,Angle & Edge before being quietly put to bed when the Shows became brands,& the sole PPVs became Tri-PPVs.
It HaS returned recently,with mixed results.Another thread on this forum suggests the tri brand PPV has killed the mid/lower card,& while the World titles,would be AS important if not more so on it ,these mid/lowers would be the whole point of this PPV & being a tri-brand ,more easier & logical for these wrestlers from different rosters to compete against each other.
My TwO stipulations ARE,to make it different from Money in the Bank IS,the winner,apart from a nice paper hat to wear for a year & a title that sounds like a sweary word,would be allowed AnY title shot during his year reign,at a chosen PPV with the title holders agreement.NO changing hands of contract,NO last minute cashing -in sneak attacks,(sorry Edge,nothing personal)
TWO:The contenders & winner must not have held AnY WWE singles titles previously.Makes for a very boring climax you might think.Well,would Edge/Cena/Swagger look forward to putting their title on the line against Knox,Shad,.,Festus..or Vlad?! They might not win the world title but AT LEAST another ,,mid/low carder has at HaD a world title shot , on PPV,in front of the WWE Universe.A push,a chance,a look-in.
Dare I ask,comment please?

 

[hman115]

Evan Bourne, Jack Swagger, Ricky Ortiz, MVP, and Shelton Benjamin will no doubt be main eventers one day, but It all depends on how creative uses them, Though they will not be main eventers of HHH status the will surely be in the WWE HOF one day.

 

[The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh]

I have seen a lot of discussion the last couple of days over championship belts becomming meaningless and the reasons behind this. In my opinion it's because the wrestlers holding the mid-card titles are nothing more than paper champions.

That's only because the champions rarely defend the fuckin' things and if they do defend it more than once in that reign there's usually more than 30 days between defenses.+

Take CM Punk and Shelton Benjimin, 10 years ago these guys would have been ditched long ago, but because of the total lack of young undercard talent WWE are forced to work with them, and give them the belts.

No fuckin' way. In 1999, you had a whole variety of guys that sucked, that were actually used in fueds regularly.

D'lo Brown
Mark Henry
The Godfather
Viscera/Mideon
Hardys
Acolytes
Edge/Christian
Test
Shamrock
Blackman
Droz/Albert
Bossman
NAO
X-Pac
Jeff Jarrett
Owen Hart
Chyna
Hardcore/Crash Holly
Al Snow
Val Venis
Too Cool
Rikishi

All these guys were mid card talent in 1999 and i can list a decent/angle/PPV match involving any of those guys in that same year (except the Godfather, he really did nothing after leaving the Nation and before joining RTC). Punk and Shelton could wrestle rings around all of them with a few exceptions (specifically Owen). Shelton became a star by being very good at the wrestling style that was most popular in WWE at the time of his debut; fast paced, technical wrestling. His total lack of mic skills have held him back. Punk has always had decent skills but has had to tone them RIGHT down since coming to WWE, so people who didn't watch him in the indies don't know just how great he really is, and probably neither do WWE.

Mid card fueds don't exist anymore, so they don't really do anything of real merit these days. They'd have been put to far better use in '99.

Is this been a problem for WWE? because since 2000 just how many major stars has WWE made?

Batista
Cena
Orton

And thats about it, in 9 years only 3 guys have debuted and become big stars within the company.

You can add to that list maybe Edge, JBL and Jeff Hardy at push because they only became big stars after 2000. But still thats only 6 main event calibre stars WWE has produced.

Er, hello? BROCK LESNAR AND KURT ANGLE!!!! There's two perfect examples of ME born and bred in WWE. Want some more examples? Bobby Lashley. He got a ME push before he quit because of his gf. They took a bunch of guys from WCW/ECW who were only ever given a little push to shut them up, and made them start pretty much from scratch to become ME guys in WWE. Benoit, Jericho, Eddie G, Booker T, Rey Mysterio, RVD all became WWE champion after being with the company for fuckin' years! Mark Henry's had a title shot or 2, Umaga, Kennedy, MVP, Khali, Punk and Benjamin have all proven that they can hang with the big guns in decent matches as has John Morrisson, and now they're testing out Kofi, Knox and Kozlov, and Rhodes and Dibiase have been in the Raw limelight for months now. In fact they've been in Raw's ME on multiple occassions.

That's 22 more names i've listed on top of your original 3 since 2000. The only guy to ever come from another organisation and ride his fame from that promotion to make it in WWE is Goldberg, because the guy is a one trick pony that draws.

If you list all the ME guys from 1990 to 1999 you get a similar number:

Hogan
Piper
Flair
Savage
Warrior
Andre
Sheik
Volkoff
Slaughter
Dusty Rhodes
Yokozuna
Bret Hart
Bob Backlund
Taker
HBK
Deisel
Austin
Rock
Foley
HHH
Big Show
Kane

Again that's 22, so 2000-2009 compared to 1990-1999, is pretty much the same. (NOTE: I didn't even start watching wrestling til '98, so i may be way off with some of those guys being ME talent, and may have missed some blatantly obvious names in that list also)

As a result of not being able for whatever reason to produce more upper card talent, the undercard titles have inevitably suffered.

That's only because ALL creative focus is put on HBK, JBL, Cena, Batista, Orton and Jericho on Raw, and all creative focus on SD! is given to Edge, HHH, Jeff Hardy, Undertaker and Big Show, and all creative focus on ECW is given to whoever the champion is, and whoever those aforementioned guys are working with at the time. If you're not booked in an angle with one of those 12 guys, then champion or no champion, you're lucky you get more than 5 minutes to wrestle in a match, and if you DO get more than 5 minutes you're either Miz, Morrison, Rey, or Kane. There's plenty of time for angles and matches for everyone else, but instead we end shows with 15 minute talk segments instead of having 1 1/2 hours of wrestling around fueds, and building up the ME with backstage segments, and then you get your 20 minute ME that everyone wants to watch, which WWE don't do anymore.

The talents WWE has produced have needed to be ultilised in the main event picture, because WWE is losing main event talent faster than it can be replaced.

Can you give some examples here please? The only guys i've seen missing a lot are Cena, Edge, Mysterio, Taker and currently Batista. 2007 had a string of ME guys on the shelf, but they used all the mid card guys and the vets to fill in the gaps and soon it wasn't a problem anymore.

Therefore there is a huge gulf between the main event and the mid-card now. WWE's mid-card is far too weak IMO. What is even more shocking for the WWE is that both HBK, JBL and Taker are closing in on retirement.

I find guys are moved from the mid card to the ME too quickly, and it comes off as them either being too inexperienced or we assume they're lower mid carders, when they're actually higher than we realise.

Another point is that WWE is becomming increasingly dependent on John Cena but what happens if Cena gets a career ending injury, or for some reason leaves? WWE currently has no-one to fill the huge void he would leave. WWE is already short on main event talent, losing Cena would be catastrophic.

That i totally agree with. He's been seriously hurt twice in 9 months recently as it is. What happens if he suffers a Droz and gets paralysed? Who's going to be super-babyface then? Batista? Methinks not. At least when Austin was gone for a long time, they still had the Rock to fall back on.

What is everyones views on this? Is WWE producing talent fast enough in your opinion? Has it had an impact on the devaluation of the mid-card titles?

No, champions and challengers who don't really seem to care about the title, as well as little to no defenses on a regular basis is what has devalued the mid card titles. Anybody can be whatever champion they like as long as it's defended by someone who coes across as being proud and passionate about being the champion. Right now, Santino is the most respectable IC champ since Orton because he took on anyone, and bragged non-stop about it for 2 months. Forget that he's a comical jobber, he gave the IC title meaning. Punk wins the IC title, and immediately tries to earn a shot at the WHC, completely undermining all of Santino's work.