WWE Region, Third Round: Embarrassment Match:(3)Shawn Michaels vs.(11)Nick Bockwinkel

[klunderbunker]

This is a third round match in the WWE Region. It is an embarrassment match, held at Madison Square Garden in New York City, New York.

Rules: This is a regular match but can only end when a wrestler uses the opponent's designated finisher. Assume wrestlers do nothing that would result in a disqualification.

#3. Shawn Michaels

Designated Finisher: Sweet Chin Music

Vs.

#11. Nick Bockwinkel

Designated Finisher: Piledriver

​

Polls will be open for five days following a one day period for discussion. Voting will be based on who you feel is the greater of the two competitors. Post your reasons for why your pick should win below. Remember that this is non-spam and the most votes in the poll win. Any ties will be broken by the amount of posts of support for each candidate, with one vote per poster.

Assume the wrestlers are at full strength after their first two matches.

Also remember that this is a non-spam forum. If you post a response without giving a reason for your selection, it will be penalized for spam and deleted.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Interesting decision. This reminds me of the battles HBK and Jericho had in 2008 due to the similarities in Jericho's and Bockwinkel's characters. I don't think Nick will have any trouble pulling off SCM and HBK has used the piledriver on Razor Ramon and Undertaker before. I think the deciding factor in most people's minds will be the strength of the AWA during Bockwinkek's era versus the weakness of the WWF during HBK's era. I'm leaning towards HBK and I'm willing to see the arguments presented.

 

[Con T.]

I'd be more willing to forgive Shawn Michaels' failures as a top draw on a general malaise for professional wrestling from the public.

Said malaise would hold more weight, if WCW wasn't doing really good business, and essentially kicking WWF's ass.

Oooooh, Dave Meltzer....

“the first time in a decade that WWF in both ppv and TV ratings fell to no. 2 in the U.S. And when it came to house shows, while WWF had a strong year in 1996, its best months were February and March and who was champion at that point? The summer was good but there was a serious decline in the fall, at which point Vince threw everything he could to get Bret back, including promising him the belt. Let’s not forget that there were numerous cases of Michaels throwing unprofessional hissy fits throughout his title reign in the ring.”

Bockwinkel isn't a favorite of mine, but Shawn does his best when he's putting people over. He's one of the best workers ever, but something tells me he loses this match.

 

[X]

Interesting match choice, I honestly can't even remember having ever seen one of these, but it's also not exactly a stipulation that gives one man or the other any kind of upper hand. I can't recall having seen Bockwinkel use a superkick but it's a simple enough move and I can recall seeing Shawn use the piledriver many times (the one he gave Undertaker on the steel steps at the '98 Rumble always comes to mind).

Bockwinkel has made a very respectable showing for himself this year, but his journey ends here. It's not that he couldn't beat Shawn, he could, especially if they ever met in the AWA when Nick was at his apex and Shawn was basically a rookie, but Shawn simply went on to have one of the greatest careers in professional wrestling history, one that overshadows Bockwinkel's admittedly impressive resume significantly. Shawn was better on the mic, better in the ring, drew more, and simply meant more to the industry. It's really as simple as that here. Nasty piledriver from Shawn ends this and he goes onto the next round after a hard fought match.

 

[Bernkastel]

This match is tough to call. Both men were cornerstones of their respective companies [WWE and AWA], both were mostly known to be heels, and both were seemingly overshadowed by Hogan in different eras. Michales had more longevity as a performer, while Bockwinkel had a series of longer and more meaningful title reigns. I'm leaning Bockwinkel. He seems to have been a bigger deal during AWA's final years. Michaels was on top of the WWE during their worst financial period. Even as showmen they seem to have been same caliber. Michaels seems to be more relevant in peoples minds because he hasn't been retired for that long. For me that's subjective.

And the stipulation also works for Bockwinkel. A superkick would be easier to execute than getting a renowned technical wrestler like Bockwinkel to tap out to a figure 4.

Voting Bockwinkel.

EDIT: Stip says piledriver. Meh, if anything that still an advantage since Bockwinkel is a big man. Bockwinkel could hit the SCM out of nowhere. Shawn would have to really work over the big guy before even getting him up.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

A great matchup... but I give this one to Bockwinkel for numerous reasons.

I can admit HBK was a dynamite worker and was great on big stages... but what seems to be left out of this equation is HBK lost a lot of his biggest matches. Bockwinkel didn't. Bockwinkel even pinned Jerry Lawler clean... in Memphis. That didn't happen at all back in Lawler's prime. A prime which Lawler used the Piledriver numerous times on Bockwinkel to no avail.

I can vote Nick here and not feel a bit biased about my choice.

 

[Awesome_Miz]

As it's been said, Shawn has used the piledriver numerous times. As for, Nick, it's not that I can't see him hitting a superkick I just think that it would be tricker for Nick to hit SCM then for Shawn to hit piledriver. So, I say Shawn wins after a nice hard fight. However, I could say either way going down.

 

[Bythedockofthebay]

So I'm going to give some time to this because I for one think HBK was a draw, at least a bigger draw than most people give him credit for so here we go. In 1994 the WWE was losing money. For the year they were over 4 million dollars in debt. They did better in 1995 but surged slightly in 1996 to where the WWE was up to making over six and a half million dollars. Now while shawn wasn't a huge draw. He was a bigger draw than Diesel or Bret or pretty much anyone from the era. And if I'm correct in 1996 the WWE made more money with Shawn as the face of the company than they did in six years. Which is saying a lot. Now the WWE was surpassed by WCW at this time. The problem is that WCW did better numbers than they ever did. Wrestling itself was down in the 1990's up until 1996.

HBK also helped jump starts the Attitude era as a top guy/ the top guy. Sure Austin took the reigns but it was built alot of Shawn Legacy. And when Shawn was in the main event the WWE did damn well. Royal Rumble, Badd Blood, One Night Only, it was all uphill for him. The numbers were good, not perfect but he was a bigger draw than anyone will ever give him credit for.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

So I'm going to give some time to this because I for one think HBK was a draw, at least a bigger draw than most people give him credit for so here we go. In 1994 the WWE was losing money. For the year they were over 4 million dollars in debt. They did better in 1995 but surged slightly in 1996 to where the WWE was up to making over six and a half million dollars. Now while shawn wasn't a huge draw. He was a bigger draw than Diesel or Bret or pretty much anyone from the era. And if I'm correct in 1996 the WWE made more money with Shawn as the face of the company than they did in six years. Which is saying a lot. Now the WWE was surpassed by WCW at this time. The problem is that WCW did better numbers than they ever did. Wrestling itself was down in the 1990's up until 1996.

HBK also helped jump starts the Attitude era as a top guy/ the top guy. Sure Austin took the reigns but it was built alot of Shawn Legacy. And when Shawn was in the main event the WWE did damn well. Royal Rumble, Badd Blood, One Night Only, it was all uphill for him. The numbers were good, not perfect but he was a bigger draw than anyone will ever give him credit for.

HBK wasn't a big draw. Jim Cornette has the books of gate receipts, and buyrates for every PPV during HBK's prime prior to the Austin Era. The most tell tale sign of the lack of drawing power HBK had is the Royal Rumble in the Alamodome against Sid Vicious. HBK was the main event and that didn't even fill a FOURTH of the AlamoDome. Capacity is near 70,000 for that arena, 22,000 plus actually bought tickets to the event, 20,000 more were comped, and the rest of the arena was tarped off.

The hometown guy, as big of a star as he is, couldn't even get half the capacity of his hometown arena to come out to see him. Not saying HBK is a bad wrestler at all. He's a dynamite hand in the ring and has proven that over and over again. But he's not marketable. He was a callous asshole who wouldn't job to anyone unless his life was threatened like it was in his match against Austin. In that instance, Taker was waiting backstage with taped gloves to make sure HBK did the deed.

That being said, Bockwinkel practiced martial arts enough to use a superkick. It's not out of the realm of impossible for him to do so.

Bockwinkel wins.

 

[Bythedockofthebay]

HBK wasn't a big draw. Jim Cornette has the books of gate receipts, and buyrates for every PPV during HBK's prime prior to the Austin Era. The most tell tale sign of the lack of drawing power HBK had is the Royal Rumble in the Alamodome against Sid Vicious. HBK was the main event and that didn't even fill a FOURTH of the AlamoDome. Capacity is near 70,000 for that arena, 22,000 plus actually bought tickets to the event, 20,000 more were comped, and the rest of the arena was tarped off.

The hometown guy, as big of a star as he is, couldn't even get half the capacity of his hometown arena to come out to see him. Not saying HBK is a bad wrestler at all. He's a dynamite hand in the ring and has proven that over and over again. But he's not marketable. He was a callous asshole who wouldn't job to anyone unless his life was threatened like it was in his match against Austin. In that instance, Taker was waiting backstage with taped gloves to make sure HBK did the deed.

That being said, Bockwinkel practiced martial arts enough to use a superkick. It's not out of the realm of impossible for him to do so.

Bockwinkel wins.

Wrong again he wasn't marketable as a face, but again WWE was still making money with him. On his heel run, he did great business, and the buys and such were good. Not saying he should go over bockwinkel, I actually think the opposite is true here. I find it funny how HBK will never live down one show that should have never happened and was a bad idea in the first place. He's drawn more than that after that, he's done big PPV numbers and if HBK wouldn't have been a star there's no way he gets to where he was.

 

[Tastycles]

I can't believe two things I have read in this thread.

1) Shawn Michaels was a draw

Yeah, that's why during his period of dominance the WWF went from being the biggest individual wrestling promotion in the country, as it had been since the 60s to being number 2. Literally the week after he retired the first time, they went back to number 1 again and stayed there forever. For 2 years of the past 50 the McMahon owned promotion has not been the biggest in the USA, and they were the two years when Michaels was on top.

2. Michaels was better than Bockwinkel on the mic

Michaels is shit on the mic. How many classic promos does he have? People only remember the smile one because it was so ludicrous.

I'm not here to shit on Michaels, and I don't think either guy winning here would be particularly awful - neither of them have really set box office on fire and both of them really nailed parts of the character.

So I'm going to cop out and go with Bockwinkel for the following reasons:

1) The few posts in this thread have already shown that Michaels is still held far above his station around here.

2) History favours the winners, and unlike the Funks, Briscos, Flair, Race and Rhodes, Bockwinkel was a world champion elsewhere who never came to the WWE to pay lip service, and as such is a bit of a forgotten man.

3) A superkick is far easier to pull out of nowhere than a piledriver.

 

[HBsam31]

This one I think could go either way. Michaels in my mind could pull off a piledriver more easily than Bockwinkel could do Sweet Chin Music. Bockwinkel was probably the better draw, but I would put HBK's in ring ability against anyone. I give him the edge because of that, and I think he finds a way to win this match. HBK on to the next round.

 

[MrMojoRisin]

The most stunning thing to me here, is someone actually thinks that Michaels was better on the mic than Bock was... let alone 'far better'??? FYI Bock was considered to be one of the best talkers of his era.

Bockwinkel had everything, and was one of the biggest stars of his day. So was HBK of course, but it appears that unfortunately for Bock, he chose to remain loyal to the AWA, and todays a world where if you weren't big in the WWF, then you couldn't have been that good in the first place.

For this particular match, using kayfabe, it would appear that the advantage is for Michaels. He used the piledriver regularly in his earlier days, while the super kick requires a level of agility that not everyone possesses. In this case though, Bockwinkel had that level of agility. He was very athletic, and as someone already mentioned, he had a martial arts background. So he could do the move, which gives him the advantage since his move to win is easier to pull off than Michaels move to win.

So let's go to their big match records. Bockwinkel was a champion, and almost always came out on top in big matches. HBK, in his 'I won't lie down' days would come out on top too, but looking at his whole career, he had quite a few big matches where he lost. Greater advantage to Bockwinkel.

In the end, Bock wins this one... or at least he should.

 

[The Brain]

I really want to vote for Bockwinkel and if it was a normal match I would but I think this stipulation favors Michaels. I'm not a big fan of this particular gimmick match but it is what it is. On occasion Michaels used the piledriver as his finisher before going to sweet chin music. I think that has to count for something here.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

I'm going to give HBK the edge here on the stip. Having received confirmation from KB (who says you can't teach an old dog new tricks LSN?), it isn't just enough to hit the move of your opponent; you actually have to defeat him with it.

In kayfabe, a wrestler's finishing move (especially a top guy) is one he does better than anyone else and other people performing them do not have the same effectiveness - see the Clothesline From Hell.

With that in mind, HBK has experience with a move that kayfabe does more damage than his own when performed by someone (Bockwinkel) who doesn't use it as a regular finisher.

For me, Shawn Michaels after hitting two quick piledrivers.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Micheals was a draw and was good on the mic


Did most of you start watching wrestling in 2011?

Jesus. Bockwinkel should have had a much better showing. The man was a prolific champion in his time, in one of the biggest territories there ever was.