WWE: Losing the War?

[X]

[NOTE: This thread is about WWE losing the war "creatively" and not in terms of money revunue.]

Am I the only one that just doesn't find even the slightest interest from the WWE right now? Like, nothing? Cyber Sunday...I looked at the matches and thought "I probably would have gotten more entertainment out of watching me burn the 40 bucks for the PPV then actually spend them on that". I have WWE 24/7, and they play all of the PPVs about 3 monthes after they take place (right now I believe they're playing either Great American Bash or Summerslam) and I find myself just becoming totally not interested at all in those PPVs. There seems to be no storylines that catch me.

TNA on the other hand I have been watching rather regularly. I really enjoy their show, especially now that its 2 hours. It really makes a big time difference, and makes the show have that big time feel. I don't know why, but the way the show is put together just reminds me of the old Raw's & Nitros. When they actually had wrestling matches mixed in with the promos instead of just endless promos and 5 minute matches that end in DQs from the WWE.

Anyways, the point of this thread is, am I the only one who's become totally uninterested in WWE right now? I still love wrestling and I watch all the new stuff on WWE 24/7 (mostly old WWF/WCW/ECW/NWA) and love it, so its not that I'm just not interested in wrestling (which seems to happen every 3 years or so) just not the WWE.

Anyways, I've decided to just stop watching WWE completely until Y2J returns. I know that won't fix everything, but just having someone wrestling again with his talent both on the mic and in the ring will really improve things. Plus it just feels like most of the old guys are all gone except for the few remaining heavyweights (Taker, HBK, HHH, Edge). It'll be nice to have someone back who was actually there during the Attitude Era and it's success, something that RAW seems to be badly needing these days if they want USA to renew their contract. I mean can you imagine a world where RAW wasn't on TV because of lack of demand? It may be coming soon people.

Anyways, the point of this thread is to ask you guys what you yourselves think about the current state of the WWE and whether you tune in or not either. And am I the only one seeing TNA producing a far more superior product? Maybe it's not exactly perfect, but the show is still very enjoyable, and I don't care what a damn soul in the world says, I will totally freaking mark out when Kevin Nash returns to the ring, because I'm a loser like that.

[Holy shit did I just make a post in the wrestling section?!]

EDIT by Jonny: Anyone caught directing this discussion onto the same topic as that which exists in the TNA Forum will receive an Infraction. You've been warned.

 

[Slim Pickns]

You're not alone. Lately I have been working all the nights WWE is on (I occasionally catch ECW), but when I do catch it its horrible.

I'm more of a football fan so Mondays until January RAW takes a back seat to Monday Night Football, and I don't even put the effort to switch the channel during commercials or halftime. Back in the day this would have never happened.

What I blame mostly is the creative team and whoever is doing the booking. How could they possibly think we want to see the same main events at every single PPV. Orton vs Michaels part 34 is coming up at SS, I couldn't care less. I know a rivarly has to go on more than a month, but switch it up a little, not this formula where if a Main Event is announced for a PPV, it will be the same for the next two. I can't believe there is more of an outcry for this. WWE is seriously getting to be the same thing over and over.

I watched TNA Bound For Glory and found myself, for the first time in years, feeling like I was watching an actual PPV instead of a three hour RAW.

 

[dude248]

[NOTE: This thread is about WWE losing the war "creatively" and not in terms of money revunue.]

Am I the only one that just doesn't find even the slightest interest from the WWE right now? Like, nothing? Cyber Sunday...I looked at the matches and thought "I probably would have gotten more entertainment out of watching me burn the 40 bucks for the PPV then actually spend them on that". I have WWE 24/7, and they play all of the PPVs about 3 monthes after they take place (right now I believe they're playing either Great American Bash or Summerslam) and I find myself just becoming totally not interested at all in those PPVs. There seems to be no storylines that catch me.

TNA on the other hand I have been watching rather regularly. I really enjoy their show, especially now that its 2 hours. It really makes a big time difference, and makes the show have that big time feel. I don't know why, but the way the show is put together just reminds me of the old Raw's & Nitros. When they actually had wrestling matches mixed in with the promos instead of just endless promos and 5 minute matches that end in DQs from the WWE.

Anyways, the point of this thread is, am I the only one who's become totally uninterested in WWE right now? I still love wrestling and I watch all the new stuff on WWE 24/7 (mostly old WWF/WCW/ECW/NWA) and love it, so its not that I'm just not interested in wrestling (which seems to happen every 3 years or so) just not the WWE.

Anyways, I've decided to just stop watching WWE completely until Y2J returns. I know that won't fix everything, but just having someone wrestling again with his talent both on the mic and in the ring will really improve things. Plus it just feels like most of the old guys are all gone except for the few remaining heavyweights (Taker, HBK, HHH, Edge). It'll be nice to have someone back who was actually there during the Attitude Era and it's success, something that RAW seems to be badly needing these days if they want USA to renew their contract. I mean can you imagine a world where RAW wasn't on TV because of lack of demand? It may be coming soon people.

Anyways, the point of this thread is to ask you guys what you yourselves think about the current state of the WWE and whether you tune in or not either. And am I the only one seeing TNA producing a far more superior product? Maybe it's not exactly perfect, but the show is still very enjoyable, and I don't care what a damn soul in the world says, I will totally freaking mark out when Kevin Nash returns to the ring, because I'm a loser like that.

[Holy shit did I just make a post in the wrestling section?!]

i agree with you that wwe is getting slighty boring now, now i sort of had an idea that hbk wud show up last night to save hhh to bring back dx with all the speculation about it. now i reckon raw next week with stone cold coming back and dx for one night, i think that it would get a 3.7 rating or maybe slighty higher. also i think that will be that because its on the raw preview so fans have the chance to find out what they are going to watch that actually might be worth watching. imho i dont think jericho will return next week because i think wwe and jericho will save it for a big paper view for eg survivor series it may not boost the ratings but it will make survivor series a little more interesting and possibly worth buying. so lets wait for next weeks raw and see what happens

 

[RVDgurl]

I agree with you 100%, X. I have not watched SD or ECW in 6 months because I have no interest in most of the storylines, characters or matches. I find the WWE product overall to be boring and stale. I do still tune into RAW every week, mainly because it is a tradition for my friend and I to get together and watch, not because the show is all that great. I don't order WWE PPV's simply because they very rarely, if at all, live up to the hype.

On the other hand, I do watch TNA faithfully every week. I cannot remember the last time I was disappointed with an Impact. I find the matches, promos, characters and storylines to be better quality. In addition, I order TNA PPV every month and they never disappoint.

 

[wtmtyd]

I also agree, I've been watching WWE shows just to see 1 or 2 wrestlers it seems, and then sometimes I just turn the TV off after I've seen them. The storylines don't have much background to them and the matches don't hold my interest.

Now TNA on the other hand, they have held my interest. They've had good matches since they've gone to two hours and the non-wrestling segments actually are interesting.

 

[Mad Metal]

I also find myself kind of bored as of late with the current product. As a loyal fan of pro wrestling, I still tune in whenever I can but majority of the times I work so I rarely or ever am able to watch their programing unless I download it or catch Raw on Telemundo or AM Raw. Well actually, IMHO it's professional wrestling in 2007 that's boring.

I gave up on TNA last year after seeing how much things changed for the worse and I thought I would finally give them another chance by tuning into their two hour show, the iMPACT! replay Saturday night and I couldn't keep my interest in the show at all. I don't know if I picked a bad night or TNA really got horrible since I quit watching their programming which if so, it's very sad.

WWE on the other hand is the promotion that builds professional wrestling's future for their selves as well as building a future for other promotions *cough* [TNA] while they [TNA] mostly focuses on wrestling's past which I find boring. The only thing worth watching in the WWE is following newer wrestlers from rookie to champion and predicting who/what is the future.

Now I really see how WWE can't take TNA serious or as true competition. It's also obvious to why ratings are falling for the WWE.

I love professional wrestling but like said, I mostly enjoy watching old school stuff. I collect wrestling DVD's, sell and trade them as well as always spending every dime in my pocket on wrestling DVD's with a big collection. I also have WWE 24/7 which at this point, I mostly find myself reliving the past up until something good actually happens in the present. Just because of that I am not going to rant on and off saying WWE sucks or TNA sucks. Just leave things the way it is. Tough shit.

 

[Loveless Chulita]

Geesh, I hate to sound repetitive but I agree with the statement that was made above. I remember back in 1999 and shoot even back in the late 80's when I was terrified out of my mind of the Undertaker wrestling was something that I looked forward to. Week in and out I could not WAIT for Monday to arrive! The way WWF used to end just had me hooked, it wasn't even just the storylines it was the amazing TALENT that WWF had (I know it's WWE now but speaking in the past).
Nowadays, I haven't tuned into SD for several years, I have not watched ECW since the One Last Stand in '06, and Raw is something that I feel I glance at now by habit. I do see that Vince might be trying to entice fans to watch with clever matrix style codes and return of the old (DX and Stone Cold next week) but I already know it's only going to last a few weeks and then we'll be stuck with more senseless talks with McMahon and his "new found son" Hornswaggle, and let's not forget about the matchups with The Coach!
This question may need to be asked elsewhere and I'm sure it has been asked, but what do you think the WWE could do to fix this?

 

[Skullz Crack'Em]

I understand where you are coming from Xfear, if RAW wasn't live I would not be watching WWE at all right now, I already gave up watching ECW(I hardly watched it at all actually) and SmackDown. WWECW is garbage with the exception of Punk, Burke, and Dreamer, and SmackDown has been the same for two years now(Batista defending or chasing the damn World title). RAW is pretty terrible as well, but like I previously stated I only watch it because it is a live show and there are no spoilers to warn me if it will be a shit show or not. RAW is half ways there to being a decent show again because we get a break from Cena, but the other half of the problem is Vince. When(if ever) he gets the hell off of RAW, we should start to see a better quality show. From making legendary stars kiss his ass to having a midget for a illigitimate son, he has gone too far IMO, along with the fact that he takes up a significant amount of time on RAW to display these horrible storylines. Vince was only good during the Attitude Era because he acted more normally and professionally like a REAL boss should, now he just acts like he is part of the roster along with the other wrestlers.

WrestleMania 21 brought upon the dark cloud that is the Cena/Batista era that we all loath today. I cannot wait for a new era to begin in the WWE because anything would be better than the current one. The 2007 draft lottery didn't change a damn thing, most of the traded stars turned into jobbers(Booker T, Dykstra, Boogeyman, Kennedy, Daivari, Flair) which only made things worse IMO. Right now, WWE is at an all time low in creative storylines, TNA is doing a better job at the moment(The Angle/Sting storyline is very interesting), but overall, both companies have done better in the past so I wouldn't really say TNA is beating WWE in creativity by a lot, just a little. SmackDown will get a nice boost when Edge returns and RAW will get a boost when Jericho returns(whenever that will be), ECW died a long time ago, there is no reviving that brand IMO, they should have just let it go when they had the chance.

 

[NickFlair]

This is a constant debate with and friend and I, and it's come to the point where we are expecting to be let down by wwe creative. Hornswoggle is a obvious example of that one, and last night when Stone Cold's music hit and it was Santino-Cold, you could feel the let down that the live fans had. And when it was announced that Steve would be there next week, the fans felt jipped, as would I.
I feel for the writers...having to create 5 hours of original programming every week, 8 + if it's a PPV week, but be hard, but seriously, on the entire roster there is so much more than can be done and others that can be utilized...broken record time, but they need to bring the rosters all back together for the fans and the writer's sake.

 

[The Sparks]

First off, yes WWE is starting to get a little stale but I'm seeing some progress. They're starting to create some new stars with D.H. "Harry" Smith, Drew McIntyre, Jeff Hardy at Main Even Level Status, Jesse & Festus and a few others. Also, their developmental system is improving. In a few years your going to see Afa Jr, Ted Dibease Jr. Nattie Neidhart, Lacy Von Erich, Joe Henning and a few other second/third generation stars that will bring back viewers who watched their fathers in the 80's and 90's. It's on the rise again just got to give it time.

As for TNA, it's just above pure crap. They hardly have any wrestling anymore and have become a WWE wanna be instead of a wrestling promotion. Kurt Angle takes up way too much time on TV and their move to 2 hours hasn't help promote the good athletes like Petey Williams, Chris Sabin and others who kept the promotion alive for years. For those of you who say that the Storylines are good, your crazy. They suck worse than WWE. Just admit that you're all WWE haters and are also probably democrats too.

 

[ABS]

WWE is not losing the war , theyre just waitng until TNA gets to it's best so WWE can put out...why waste the goodness now when they know theres actually a rival at the moment that has a bright future. But until then not only WWe is losing the war but the whole industry is.

 

[jamesjd66]

[NOTE: This thread is about WWE losing the war "creatively" and not in terms of money revunue.]



Anyways, I've decided to just stop watching WWE completely until Y2J returns. I know that won't fix everything, but just having someone wrestling again with his talent both on the mic and in the ring will really improve things. Plus it just feels like most of the old guys are all gone except for the few remaining heavyweights (Taker, HBK, HHH, Edge). It'll be nice to have someone back who was actually there during the Attitude Era and it's success, something that RAW seems to be badly needing these days if they want USA to renew their contract.

Totally agree. I had stopped watching recently due to the repetitiveness week in week out. I gave CYberSunday a shot with the hopes that Jericho would return but alas no Jericho and I'm out $40. I watched raw yesterday with the same hopes but nah... Same old shit. I've been a fan for a little over 15 years and if they don't start mixing things up soon, I'm out. I see why a lot of people feel this way as well.

I am starting to feel like it has passed me by. The WWE is not interested in catering to what we want or would like to see anymore. Instead of good balance between wrestling and decent promos building up feuds we get 10 minutes of Hornswagle each week. We get Hardy/Kennedy part 8. HBK/HHH again. And even before this past months RAWs we had a full year of Cena having the same match every week.

To sum it up...... STALE

 

[BooCocky]

Raw has been boring for quite sometime, and just not one simple person can fix it *Jericho*. Everything that happens is always to predictable. I do watch Raw every monday night except during a steeler monday night game. Over the past month or so, it wasn't the WWE who let us down, it was the people who let themselves down by assuming something that they have no idea about.

I do not think TNA is producing a *Far* more superior product because there story lines are bad, most of them can not cut a promo with there lives depended on it. The only reason why i tune into watch TNA is because some of my favorites are on it, and they usually have shows producing solid wrestling matches, and they don't open with some one cutting a half hour promo.

I have watched ECW only once or twice since it's so called resurrection because the story lines are boring and i find 95% of the roster non entertaining, and the entertaining ones are old and have been buried since day one.

I haven't yet become uninterested because i still look forward every Monday in hoping something happens but like always i get let down because of it's predictability and Triple H and his shovel. I still don't find the TNA to be far more superior because they have a lot of work to do to be on the WWE's level. But when it still comes down to it, i watch Raw on Mondays, and TNA on Thursdays, hoping something drastic will happen.

 

[Xtreme Impact]

As somebody said in another thread, Vince doesnt give a crap about us, he only cares about surprising the 10 year old fans. With us wrestling fans its want want want, and with 10 year old kids they get surprised with anything, and they LOVE Cena.

I think once Jericho returns we will see a change, but its gonna take a while for him to shake off the ring rust until he gets back and shape and can step inside the ring again.

The bad thing about TNA in the UK is, its on Bravo 2 and on Saturday night. Bravo 2 is a pretty stupid channel, unless you watch all the tripe that they have on it, and with it being on Saturdays, whose going to stay in over the weekend to watch it? So people watch it on the internet. If TNA in the UK was on a decent channel, on a decent day of the week (Thursdays would be good) and on a decent time slot then id watch it on TV and not on the internet.

 

[Lashley07]

Im not sure I agree with you all to be honest. I agree, the WWE prouduct as a whole has not been top notch thus far for a while, but every week I feel compelled to watch WWE RAW (2AM here in England). Why? Because im a loyal fan, and no matter how boring it gets I will always tune in to watch it. I think RAW has been getting better recently with the introductions of Cody and Harry Smith. (D.H?! Whats that about?). Anyway, the promos have been getting better while people like Santino Marella have been cutting them. I watched his promo on RAW this week and was entertained throughout the segment. But, the WWE dont pay close enough attention to what people want.

Another problem is the fact that they dont know how to handle a character properly...they build Randy Orton as a ruthless wrestler...and it worked brilliantly for them, he wins the title and then turns into a coward. Why coudnt he go face to face with HBK when he returned...why did he run away? That ruined the whole return for me because it wrecked Randys character.

I may have gone off topic but to answer your question, yes I do still watch the WWE every week. RAW EVERY Monday, and SmackDown! I catch on a replay on Saturday. I even watch ECW which I think is actually a good show, with a good array of talent, but its just missing something. Maybe someone like Paul Heyman..

In the end, the WWE will survive...and you know what...I coudnt be more happier.

 

[jamesjd66]

Lashley07, Shit talking aside I too consider myself a loyal fan and there have been some bright spots as of late. Santino on the mic is money. I was completely shocked and happy they let Jeff Hardy talk last week too when he was hyping up Cyber Sunday.

Randy Orton, like every other heel champion is booked as a relentless opponent who once he gains the belt turns into a cheating, cowering vag.
Y2J won't change things overnight but it will shake things up a bit and make it more interesting

 

[hatehabsforever]

With all due respect to the opinions of others, don't you feel that part of the problem is that the expectations of most wrestling fans has gotten too high? I mean let's face it, if anyone is tuning in to any wrestling show nowadays, whether it be WWE or TNA, whether it be a PPV or regular television, expecting to be blown away by the show, they are naive and haven't been watching any professional wrestling for the last several years.

I read all of the posts in this thread and the consensus is that Raw, SD, ECW, and TNA all suck. So I ask people, what specifically do they want to see? A lot or wrestlers have retired for various reasons. Lots of others have unfortunately passed away. Many guys have taken extended breaks from wrestling. And lots of guys are injured. So what's left? Not too much, and what little is left is spread too thin, is hampered by internet spoiler sites or sites like this where knowledgeable wrestling fans pick everything apart to the point that surprises are virtually impossible. No one has stepped up to the plate and filled the void left by the loss of talent as above. And wrestling TV time fills about 7 hours a week now. Trying to fill too much TV time, not to mention PPV time, with diluted talent, unrealistic expectations, all with the internet operating against them all the time.

Wrestling is cyclical, it always has been and it always will be. Years ago, WCW rose up to challenge the WWF. Talent left WWF, either to chase the mighty dollar in WCW, or they retired, or they died, or whatever, and people complained about the WWF. It was dead, because all they had was guys like Hunter Hearst Helmsley, Rocky Maivia, or the Million Dollar Champion to lead the company. And look what happened. Stone Cold Steve Austin, the Rock, and HHH re-invented the product. This can happen again, and I fully expect it will. I don't know who it ill be: maybe Mr. Kennedy, maybe MVP, maybe one of the next generation of wrestlers like Harry Smith, I don't know. But be patient and it will come around, it always has.

You cannot fault the WWE, or Vince McMahon, or even HHH because of the lack of depth on the roster. Bring back the disgruntled Angle, Cage, or Booker. Bring back even Goldberg or Lesnar. Have RVD or Show return. And have some new guys step up, and bang, problem solved. Until this happens, get used to being in a valley of the peak and valley cycle that is professional wrestling.

Don't forget, we're all getting older too. Things that are predictable to us now, or wrestlers who annoy us now such as Cena, we would probably have been impressed with 10-15 years ago. I'm sure fans who were our age at the time felt the same way aboout Savage, Hogan, etc., years ago. Some of these guys were predictable too, and weren't exactly ring technicians either (Hogan), and back then, fans who were the age that I am now were probably scratching their heads and talking about how bad it all was. At least back then, they only had to fill a couple of hours of television time, they did so with wrestlers fighting jobbers for the most part, and they did so with no internet. I think many people forget some of this.

Sit back, enjoy the show, and relax. Because you know as well as I do that as soon as you tune out and stop watching, good old VKM will pull a rabbit out of a hat again, and you'll miss it. May be a returning Jericho, may be some new young superstar becoming the next Rock, whatever. It will happen, it always does.

 

[Kcorthe]

With all due respect to the opinions of others, don't you feel that part of the problem is that the expectations of most wrestling fans has gotten too high? I mean let's face it, if anyone is tuning in to any wrestling show nowadays, whether it be WWE or TNA, whether it be a PPV or regular television, expecting to be blown away by the show, they are naive and haven't been watching any professional wrestling for the last several years.

I read all of the posts in this thread and the consensus is that Raw, SD, ECW, and TNA all suck. So I ask people, what specifically do they want to see? A lot or wrestlers have retired for various reasons. Lots of others have unfortunately passed away. Many guys have taken extended breaks from wrestling. And lots of guys are injured. So what's left? Not too much, and what little is left is spread too thin, is hampered by internet spoiler sites or sites like this where knowledgeable wrestling fans pick everything apart to the point that surprises are virtually impossible. No one has stepped up to the plate and filled the void left by the loss of talent as above. And wrestling TV time fills about 7 hours a week now. Trying to fill too much TV time, not to mention PPV time, with diluted talent, unrealistic expectations, all with the internet operating against them all the time.

Wrestling is cyclical, it always has been and it always will be. Years ago, WCW rose up to challenge the WWF. Talent left WWF, either to chase the mighty dollar in WCW, or they retired, or they died, or whatever, and people complained about the WWF. It was dead, because all they had was guys like Hunter Hearst Helmsley, Rocky Maivia, or the Million Dollar Champion to lead the company. And look what happened. Stone Cold Steve Austin, the Rock, and HHH re-invented the product. This can happen again, and I fully expect it will. I don't know who it ill be: maybe Mr. Kennedy, maybe MVP, maybe one of the next generation of wrestlers like Harry Smith, I don't know. But be patient and it will come around, it always has.

You cannot fault the WWE, or Vince McMahon, or even HHH because of the lack of depth on the roster. Bring back the disgruntled Angle, Cage, or Booker. Bring back even Goldberg or Lesnar. Have RVD or Show return. And have some new guys step up, and bang, problem solved. Until this happens, get used to being in a valley of the peak and valley cycle that is professional wrestling.

Don't forget, we're all getting older too. Things that are predictable to us now, or wrestlers who annoy us now such as Cena, we would probably have been impressed with 10-15 years ago. I'm sure fans who were our age at the time felt the same way aboout Savage, Hogan, etc., years ago. Some of these guys were predictable too, and weren't exactly ring technicians either (Hogan), and back then, fans who were the age that I am now were probably scratching their heads and talking about how bad it all was. At least back then, they only had to fill a couple of hours of television time, they did so with wrestlers fighting jobbers for the most part, and they did so with no internet. I think many people forget some of this.

Sit back, enjoy the show, and relax. Because you know as well as I do that as soon as you tune out and stop watching, good old VKM will pull a rabbit out of a hat again, and you'll miss it. May be a returning Jericho, may be some new young superstar becoming the next Rock, whatever. It will happen, it always does.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

While its true that the WWE isn't what it used to be, its still not entirely their fault about the seemingly downward spiral of the industry.

The internet and the fans themselves are really the ones responsible for the disappointments with the current product.

What I'm trying to say is, like the above poster said, it is very very hard to have surprises, or "SHOCKERS" in the wrestling world today, and that is because of the internet (mostly). Almost everything in wrestling today is known before it even happens, becuse of the internet.

That plus, fans either have too high of expectations, or they watch a show with a negative mindset. If you order "Cyber Sunday" thinking, "Oh this shit will probably suck." Then guess what? Chances are you will hate the show. And I'm not trying to say "Cyber Sunday" was a great show, but it really wasn't as bad as people make it out to be.

I completely agree with evreything the above poster said. Everybody just needs to relax, just watch the show, enjoy it for what it is. No, its not anything like the old WWE, but its still not terrible. Everyone just wants to criticize because they think they have all of the answers...its not as cut-and-dry as that.

I don't know. I am having a hard time explaining what I'm trying to say. Hoefully most of you gut the jist of it.

Basically: just look at the positives of wrestling these days, and wait...be patient, for the future is bright in my opinion. Its just a matter of time now.

 

[joshboy1]

there are a few good wrestlers that the wwe have but they are not just using them to there full potential, for example chris masters i think he could be at the top of the buisness, but on the other hand there is john cena yeah he is good on the mic but he is crap as a wrestler all he does is about five moves then he wins the match thats where wwe is going wrong we don't want to see promotions and hype we wand to see good competive matches and some new storylines instaed of the same old stuff.

On the other hand tna are using the wrestlers wwe didnt use to there full potential and are making them the main ones that the fans want to see like rhyno and christian cage.

 

[Mad Metal]

With all due respect to the opinions of others, don't you feel that part of the problem is that the expectations of most wrestling fans has gotten too high? I mean let's face it, if anyone is tuning in to any wrestling show nowadays, whether it be WWE or TNA, whether it be a PPV or regular television, expecting to be blown away by the show, they are naive and haven't been watching any professional wrestling for the last several years.

I read all of the posts in this thread and the consensus is that Raw, SD, ECW, and TNA all suck. So I ask people, what specifically do they want to see? A lot or wrestlers have retired for various reasons. Lots of others have unfortunately passed away. Many guys have taken extended breaks from wrestling. And lots of guys are injured. So what's left? Not too much, and what little is left is spread too thin, is hampered by internet spoiler sites or sites like this where knowledgeable wrestling fans pick everything apart to the point that surprises are virtually impossible. No one has stepped up to the plate and filled the void left by the loss of talent as above. And wrestling TV time fills about 7 hours a week now. Trying to fill too much TV time, not to mention PPV time, with diluted talent, unrealistic expectations, all with the internet operating against them all the time.

Wrestling is cyclical, it always has been and it always will be. Years ago, WCW rose up to challenge the WWF. Talent left WWF, either to chase the mighty dollar in WCW, or they retired, or they died, or whatever, and people complained about the WWF. It was dead, because all they had was guys like Hunter Hearst Helmsley, Rocky Maivia, or the Million Dollar Champion to lead the company. And look what happened. Stone Cold Steve Austin, the Rock, and HHH re-invented the product. This can happen again, and I fully expect it will. I don't know who it ill be: maybe Mr. Kennedy, maybe MVP, maybe one of the next generation of wrestlers like Harry Smith, I don't know. But be patient and it will come around, it always has.

You cannot fault the WWE, or Vince McMahon, or even HHH because of the lack of depth on the roster. Bring back the disgruntled Angle, Cage, or Booker. Bring back even Goldberg or Lesnar. Have RVD or Show return. And have some new guys step up, and bang, problem solved. Until this happens, get used to being in a valley of the peak and valley cycle that is professional wrestling.

Don't forget, we're all getting older too. Things that are predictable to us now, or wrestlers who annoy us now such as Cena, we would probably have been impressed with 10-15 years ago. I'm sure fans who were our age at the time felt the same way aboout Savage, Hogan, etc., years ago. Some of these guys were predictable too, and weren't exactly ring technicians either (Hogan), and back then, fans who were the age that I am now were probably scratching their heads and talking about how bad it all was. At least back then, they only had to fill a couple of hours of television time, they did so with wrestlers fighting jobbers for the most part, and they did so with no internet. I think many people forget some of this.

Sit back, enjoy the show, and relax. Because you know as well as I do that as soon as you tune out and stop watching, good old VKM will pull a rabbit out of a hat again, and you'll miss it. May be a returning Jericho, may be some new young superstar becoming the next Rock, whatever. It will happen, it always does.

Out of all of the posts in this thread, this was the best, yet, well typed post I seen.

A lot of the times indeed I question myself is wrestling getting stale or is it that I'm getting older. I think in general everything is predictable as long as a good portion of us tunes to wrestling news sites. Look what happened, we all relied on the internet when news sites were reporting a good possibility of Chris Jericho return would happen last night, but what I don't understand is why get so pissed about it? If Chris Jericho did show up, the word predictable would have been thrown all over instead of the word surprise which that's what the WWE is currently sticking to. Kudos to Jericho and the WWE for fooling the fans, yet, making no official announcements for an UN-PREDICTABLE return.

All I am going to say now is despite how stale things are, I will never say to someone "yeah, I used to watch that WW wrestling stuff. thats fake shit". You don't have to be a "mark" to continue being a fan through even the lowest points, even though there's absolutely nothing with marks seeing they are very appreciative of what is being given and from their view, wrestling is more fun to watch than for us which a lot of us can have the impression that we know more of what goes around by reading all the "inside scoops" and watching different stuff as well including ordering ROH tapes and going to different websites trading wrestling DVD's.

 

[Shocky]

About expectations being too high, it's simple, don't charge me 40 bucks to watch a pay per view, then I won't have high expectations.

It is my hard earned money, and I wish to be entertained, and quite frankly, there has been nothing good about WWE programming this year, let alone their pay per view scene. Their pay per views have less energy then a monday night raw from ten years ago, that's the problem.

It just looks to be that the young wrestlers simply don't get it, and the writing team is so out of touch with what the fans want it's ridiculous. The culture of the semi-sporting world has changed. People don't watch wrestling anymore, it's clearly evident by free falling ratings and pay per view buyrates. The culture of the one on one fight has shifted from wrestling to MMA.

The WWE is certainly at a crossroads with what it wants to do and be. I'll get flamed for this, but the WWE is catering towards women and children, which is fine. But I'm a 18-35 male that expects more. If the WWE wants to cater to children, then get its programming off of Monday Night's and put it back on Saturday Mornings.

Creative sucks, the wrestlers for the most part suck, the storytelling sucks. The same guys are on top that have been on top for the better part of five years now, it's old and redundant. Less time on shitty wrestlers and bad divas and more time on good in ring matches and quality well thought of storylines.

The WWE is dying a slow and miserable death at this point, and I really don't see them coming out of it this time. TNA has made improvements, but still their overall lack of direction and a true leader leaves much to be desired. However, that being said, TNA's pay per views have been top notch 4 out of 5 stars this year, while the WWE pay per views have been the worst I've ever witnessed.

I don't watch Raw/Smackdown/ or ECW anymore. It's garbage. There was more energy on Heat with Shane O'Mac as commentator then there is on a typical monday night Raw anymore. People can bitch about the Attitude Era and it's crap matches, and i'll agree, but there is no denying the atmosphere during that time. Everything was must see, everything now is "Do I Care?"

I'm with X, I pretty much only watch the pay per views anymore and even these are shit. The WWE used to be about listening to what the fans wanted, and then giving it to them. Now its about what the WWE wishes to produce, and the fans taking it because they are the only show in town. So this has lead to fans simply turning the TV off or watching Football, 24, or Heroes.

 

[Ghost_Killer_13]

I tottaly agree...im so down w/ tha fact..dat only a few heavyweights are still in this buissness the attitude era,like x-pac,roaddogg "
"assman"billygunn you know those people..i think that TNA and WWE should start a war like w/ WCW and WWE..man thats wat the true fans need..something to keep us going/pumped..were missing alot of guys like stonecold,the rock, bigshow,rvd booker T..guys like that..~1~

 

[Stevie Automatic]

In the WWE I almost see the same pattern that WCW went through. On Raw, HHH and Shawn Michaels are in the main event in some way shape or form. Those two need to start putting some of the younger talent over. Like Kennedy, Lashley, Hardy and why not have Carlito win a title. Lashley vs HHH I want to see that. With Lashley winning, the Game is getting old. I actually think ECW could be better than both of the shows because the talent is younger. Smackdown is good but will be better when Edge gets back, but Im tired of them putting the belt on Batista. Why not put the title on Kane. Taker has had it but didn't have a good run, but do something where Kane wins the title and have the brothers of destruction go one on one.

 

[gorsty2k7]

The problem as I see it lies somewhere in the creative department, or lack-there-of. When was the last time WWE pulled anything really shocking that people didn't expect? I honestly can't remember? As for the argument about the internet ruining wrestling, no its not. Remember the week leading into TNA No Surrender 2006? TNAWrestling.com made a report of a shocking announcement, then on the internet it was discovered TNA were going primetime, it was also discovered TNA had hired Vince Russo, so everyone was assuming these were the potential announcements. How wrong were they? TNA did the deal with Angle in secret, nobody at all knew about it outside of a few people in Nashville who were all sworn to secrecy by signing a non-disclousure contract. That was a genuine surprise.

The problem is, if WWE makes a big signing, it immediately gets leaked since people within WWE are not able to keep their mouths shut. WWE should hire people with a very limited number of people knowing the details, and then possibly start rumours of their own as to what they are.

 

[hatehabsforever]

Paul, I hear what you're saying, and I'll be the first to agree with you that the current WWE product is poor. Lots of "shitty wrestlers" and "bad divas," as well as lots of lousy storylines. I personally am sick to death of Hornswoggle and this type of lousy writing.

But having said all of this, I still think your expectations are too high. If you don't want to pay the $40 of your hard-earned money, no one is forcing you to. If the product has been as bad as you say all year, why did you rent the PPV? And how can you complain when you are disappointed with the show, you should have been able to see it coming.

Personally, I don't watch MMA. It's just not my thing. So I don't purchase these PPV's, or watch their shows on regular TV. I know exactly what to expect from the product, I choose not to watch. I don't watch the shows and pay the money, then complain that I don't like it.

The same guys are on top for years because the talent coming behind them is brutally thin. HHH and HBK are still on top, because who else has stepped up to succeed them? Really no one. Shitty wrestlers and bad divas are necessary because they cannot fill 7 hours of TV, and a dozen or more PPV's, with the thin talent they have. This is not WWE's fault, it's the wrestlers faults themselves. Plus, if HHH or HBK are there, people complain that the product is stale; if someone new steps up like Lashley or Kennedy, the same people complain that they're not ready. Damned if you do, and damned if you don't.

The only way to overcome this is with surprise storylines, which is impossible with the internet as I said. Plus, when the WWE tries to create a buzz with a surprise (like with the McMahon death angle), people still bitch and complain. People will over-analyze the Y2J return to death, then complain that it's stale and boring whenever it happens, because it will have been beaten to death on the internet (it already has been) by then.

TNA is trying to surprise us with Booker T being Sting's surprise partner at the next PPV. Yet, Booker T leaving WWE was discussed on the internet for months before it happened. His departure was announced to the world when it actually happened. It's been speculated to death that he'll be the partner for Sting, and was announced on this site as "Breaking News: Booker T backstage at the Impact tapings tonight." And count on it, when it happens at the next PPV, people will complain that it was predictable, that they saw it coming, and that it's boring and the results of poor storytelling. Years ago it could have been pulled off, today it's impossible.